REBECCA LAMB WEISS: HEY GUYS, WELCOME BACK TO THE PODCAST.
I AM JOINED WITH JUERGEN AND LEANNE.
SO EXCITED TO HAVE YOU GUYS.
AND JONATHAN, THANKS FOR JOINING US, TOO.
I JUST KEEP DRAGGING HIM ONTO EPISODES.
I'M LIKE, YOU'RE GONNA DO THIS?
JUERGEN MATTHESIUS: WELL, HE IS EYE CANDY.
SO WELL DONE.
REBECCA: EXACTLY.
YOU KNOW EXACTLY WHERE I'M WORKING.
IT'S NICE TO HAVE SOMEONE WITH A GOOD SENSE OF HUMOR.
JONATHAN WEISS: I KNOW, IT'S GREAT.
BEEN LAUGHING ALL DAY.
REBECCA: WE DO ALL KINDS OF INTERVIEWS,
AND SOME ARE REALLY SERIOUS,
WHICH IS NICE TO KIND OF FEEL LIKE
YOU CAN BREATHE A LITTLE BIT.
JUERGEN: IT IS.
REBECCA: BUT Y'ALL, I REMEMBER YOU GUYS FROM SO MANY YEARS BACK
WHEN MY DAD CAME AND MINISTERED.
BOTH: YES.
REBECCA: AND SO WHEN I SAW Y'ALL WERE COMING THROUGH TOWN,
I WAS LIKE, OH, I REMEMBER I LIKED THEM SO MUCH.
I WAS LIKE, I WANT TO TALK TO THEM.
AND THEN I DRAGGED JONATHAN INTO IT.
SO YOU GUYS ARE NEW TO THE PODCAST AUDIENCE,
SO I DO WANT YOU GUYS TO KIND OF TELL SOME OF YOUR TESTIMONY
AND BACKSTORY.
LEANNE MATTHESIUS: YEAH, OKAY.
JONATHAN: AND LOVE STORY, WHILE WE'RE AT IT.
REBECCA: I WANTED TO DO THAT, TOO.
JONATHAN: THAT'S FUN.
REBECCA: BECAUSE IT'S JUST, EVERYONE LOVES A GOOD STORY.
JUERGEN: A GOOD STORY.
WELL, I'M GOING TO THROW MY WIFE UNDER THE BUS
AND LET HER LOOSE BECAUSE SHE GOT SAVED IN A SNAKE PIT.
TELL US ABOUT THAT, BABE.
LEANNE: WELL, IT WAS, I ACTUALLY GOT,
WELL, YEAH.
OKAY.
LET ME GIVE SOME CONTEXT.
SO IT WAS ACTUALLY AT A BASKETBALL STADIUM
IN MY HOMETOWN OF WOLLONGONG, AND I WAS PART OF
AN ANGLICAN CHURCH GROUP IN AUSTRALIA,
AND THERE WAS THIS BASKETBALL STADIUM CALLED THE SNAKE PIT.
AND I WENT WITH A WHOLE BUNCH OF FRIENDS.
AND I'M NOT SURE IF YOU'VE HEARD OF CANON J. JOHN.
REBECCA: OH YES, I LOVE HIM.
LEANNE: THE U.K.
YEAH, HE WAS SPEAKING.
JUERGEN: JESUS.
LEANNE: YEAH.
JERGEN: WHAT ARE YOU DOING?
LEANNE: YEAH.
SO I WAS ABOUT 12 YEARS OF AGE, AND HE DID AN APPEAL
FOR PEOPLE WHO WERE RAISED IN A CHRISTIAN HOME
BUT HADN'T MADE THEIR OWN DECISION FOR CHRIST.
AND SO THAT'S WHERE I GAVE MY LIFE TO THE LORD.
AND MY MUM AND DAD WERE BEAUTIFUL CHRISTIAN PEOPLE.
AND I WENT TO CHURCH FROM AS LONG AS I CAN REMEMBER.
BUT IT WAS THAT DAY THAT REALLY SEALED IT FOR ME.
LIKE --
JONATHAN: HOW OLD WERE YOU?
LEANNE: JUST MY MY FAITH, MY PARENTS' FAITH,
I WAS 12, YEAH.
SO JUST COMING INTO THOSE ARDUOUS TEENAGE YEARS.
SO IT WAS LIKE PERFECT TIMING.
BUT THAT'S HOW I GOT SAVED.
JUERGEN: AND 38 YEARS LATER THIS JANUARY.
LEANNY'S SPEAKING FOR J. JOHN
AT HIS EVANGELISM CONFERENCE IN LONDON.
LEANNE: YEAH.
WE'RE GOING TO BE IN LONDON TOGETHER.
JUERGEN: YEAH.
REBECCA: FULL CIRCLE.
JUERGEN: FULL CIRCLE.
LEANNE: YEAH.
REBECCA: I LOVE HOW GOD WORKS EVERYTHING.
LEANNE: YEAH, YEAH.
JUERGEN: IT'S AMAZING.
REBECCA: SO COOL.
DID YOU GET FILLED WITH THE SPIRIT RIGHT AWAY OR...?
LEANNE: NO, I DIDN'T. I WAS 15,
SO I DIDN'T COME FROM A SPIRIT-FILLED FAMILY.
WE WERE PART OF THE ANGLICAN CHURCH IN AUSTRALIA,
AND WE DIDN'T, YOU KNOW, IT WAS JUST NEVER SPOKEN ABOUT.
AND IN FACT, I WOULD SAY IT WAS PROBABLY ALMOST SPOKEN AGAINST.
BUT I WAS ALWAYS, YOU KNOW, WE WERE ALWAYS
HUNGRY FOR THE THINGS OF GOD.
AND THEN WHEN I MET JUERGEN, AND HE WAS THIS RADICAL FOR JESUS
IN ALL THE BEST WAYS,
AND HE REALLY INTRODUCED OUR ENTIRE FAMILY
TO THE THINGS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.
REBECCA: WOW.
LEANNE: PRAYED FOR ME. PRAYED FOR MY MUM.
JUERGEN: I WOULD ALWAYS GET INTO ARGUMENTS WITH HER MUM.
YEAH, HER MUM WENT TO SEMINARY AND I WAS GOING TO
BIBLE COLLEGE, AND SHE WENT TO A SEMINARY THAT WAS A,
YOU KNOW, A CESSATION THEOLOGY, YOU KNOW,
THE GIFTS HAVE CEASED.
AND SO I WOULD GET INTO ARGUMENTS. AND THEN ONE DAY,
ONE DAY, SHE, YOU KNOW, WAS GOING THROUGH A MEDICAL THING
WITH HER HEART AND ASKED ME TO PRAY FOR HER.
AND I PRAYED FOR HER, AND SHE GOT SLAIN IN THE SPIRIT.
AND THEN HER FRIEND STARTED SPEAKING IN TONGUES
WHEN I PRAYED FOR HER.
AND THEN I PRAYED FOR LEANNE'S MUM, AND SHE GOT BAPTIZED
IN THE HOLY SPIRIT, STARTED SPEAKING IN TONGUES,
AND THEN LEANNE NEXT.
AND THEN WE JUST KIND OF WENT THROUGH THE FAMILY
ONE BY ONE, REALLY.
LEANNE: MUM, DAD, FOUR SISTERS.
REBECCA: FOUR SISTERS?!
WHERE ARE YOU
IN THE BIRTH ORDER?
LEANNE: I'M NUMBER FOUR.
OH, SO I HAVE THREE ELDER AND ONE YOUNGER.
YEAH.
REBECCA: WOW.
JUERGEN: AND SHE'S THE MOST BEAUTIFUL OF ALL OF THEM.
AND THEY'RE ALL BEAUTIFUL.
JONATHAN: AMEN.
REBECCA: THAT IS QUITE A FAMILY, THOUGH.
YEAH, THAT'S A LOT OF WOMEN.
LEANNE: A LOT OF WOMEN.
MY DAD COPED VERY WELL, ACTUALLY.
I THINK EVEN THE DOG WAS FEMALE.
HE WAS SURROUNDED BY ESTROGEN, BUT SURVIVED
AND LOVES HIS GIRLS.
WOULDN'T HAVE IT ANY OTHER WAY.
REBECCA: THAT'S SO SWEET.
YEAH.
OKAY, SO WE GOT A LITTLE TASTE OF YOU IN THE STORY,
SO TELL US YOUR STORY.
JUERGEN: SO I GOT SAVED ON A BEACH, SO I WAS BORN IN GERMANY,
HENCE THE NAME JUERGEN,
SPELT WITH A J.
LOOKS LIKE JUERGEN AND MY FAMILY MIGRATED TO AUSTRALIA
JUST BEFORE MY THIRD BIRTHDAY.
THERE WAS LIKE A REAL SEVERE WINTER.
DAD COULDN'T WORK AND MUM WAS PREGNANT WITH MY LITTLE BROTHER
AND SOMEONE SAID TO HIM, HEY,
YOU SHOULD APPLY FOR THESE VISAS.
THEY'RE LITERALLY GIVING THEM AWAY TO GO TO AUSTRALIA.
AUSTRALIA IS DESPERATE FOR TRADESPEOPLE. AND MY FATHER WAS,
HIS TRADE WAS A CERAMIC TILER, YOU KNOW,
DOING KITCHENS AND BALCONIES.
AND SO HE APPLIED.
AND WITHIN SIX WEEKS, WE WERE ON A ONE-WAY TRIP TO AUSTRALIA.
SO I WAS BORN IN GERMANY, GREW UP IN AUSTRALIA,
BUT MY DAD GREW UP IN EAST GERMANY UNDER COMMUNISM
AND ATHEISM.
SO THERE WAS NO FAITH.
THERE WAS NEVER ANY GOD IN OUR HOME, PER SE.
BUT IT WAS SO FUNNY.
IF I LOOK BACK NOW, THERE WERE ALL THESE GOD MOMENTS.
EVEN THOUGH I WENT TO A PUBLIC SCHOOL,
I THINK THAT AT THE END OF THE PUBLIC SCHOOL PROPERTY,
THERE WAS A CHURCH CALLED SAINT AIDAN'S ANGLICAN CHURCH,
AND I THINK THEY ONCE OWNED ALL THAT LAND,
AND THEY SOLD IT TO THE GOVERNMENT
TO BUILD A PUBLIC SCHOOL.
BUT THERE WAS SOMETHING VERY, VERY HOLY,
BECAUSE I CAN REMEMBER WHEN I GOT SAVED, THE SAME FEELINGS
I HAD WHEN WE WOULD DO CHRISTMAS CAROLS
OR WHEN WE WOULD DO EASTER AT THE SCHOOL,
AND CHRIST WAS INTRODUCED.
THERE WAS SOMETHING VERY, VERY MAGICAL, EVEN THOUGH
I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THE GOSPEL.
SO I ENDED UP, YOU KNOW, DOING WHAT EVERY TEENAGER DOES.
YOU KNOW, THE SEX, DRUGS, ROCK AND ROLL, BOOZING,
YOU KNOW, ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF.
BUT REALIZING THERE WAS STILL SOMETHING MISSING
AND I THOUGHT MAYBE WHAT WAS MISSING WAS, YOU KNOW,
SPORTING SUCCESS.
AND I WAS ON THE AUSTRALIAN AMATEUR SURFING CIRCUIT,
AND I THOUGHT, MAYBE THAT'S WHAT I'D LOVE
TO DO FOR A LIVING IS, YOU KNOW, PROFESSIONAL SURFING.
AND I GOT INVITED TO GO INTO THIS JESUS PROAM.
AND I REMEMBER JUST THINKING LIKE, IT'S GOT TO BE A JOKE,
RIGHT?
AND THEY'RE LIKE, NO, IT'S FOR REAL.
THE CHRISTIAN SURFERS ARE PUTTING ON $100,000,
YOU KNOW, PRIZE MONEY.
I'M LIKE, NO WAY.
WHAT?
ARE CHRISTIANS EVEN ALLOWED TO SURF?
BECAUSE THE ONLY CHRISTIANS I KNEW
DEFINED THEMSELVES BY WHAT THEY DIDN'T DO.
YOU KNOW, THEY DIDN'T HAVE LONG HAIR.
THEY DIDN'T, YOU KNOW, DRINK OR SMOKE OR CHEW
OR DATE THE GIRLS THAT DO AND, YOU KNOW, AND SO I'M LIKE,
THIS IS GOING TO BE LIKE TAKING CANDY FROM A BABY.
AND I TURN UP, AND IT WAS LIKE A GOD-ORDAINED WEEKEND.
THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN NO SURF,
BUT THE SURF WAS LIKE DOUBLE OVERHEAD.
THEY GET ON THE BEACH
AND THEY PRAY FOR THE SURF TO SETTLE DOWN.
AND I'M THINKING, THERE'S NO WAY THE SURF'S SETTLING DOWN.
THIS IS A MASSIVE STORM SWELL THAT'S COME FROM OUT AT SEA
RIGHT BEFORE MY EYES.
OVER THE NEXT HOUR, THE WIND CHANGES DIRECTION.
IT GOES OFFSHORE, THE SURF IS PERFECT, AND I'M LIKE,
OH, WELL, THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WITH THE STORM SURF.
THEY COME UP REALLY QUICK AND THEN THEY DIE REALLY QUICK.
YOU KNOW, BY TOMORROW, THERE'LL BE NOTHING LEFT.
IT'S STAYED LIKE THAT THE WHOLE LONG WEEKEND.
I MADE IT ALL THE WAY TO THE FINALS.
I DIDN'T WIN THE FINALS.
I CAME FOURTH.
BUT THE GUY THAT WON THE THE FINAL GOT TO SHARE HIS TESTIMONY
AT THE PRIZEGIVING.
SO TO ME, I DIDN'T KNOW PREACHING.
I JUST THOUGHT HE'S JUST, YOU KNOW,
SPEAKING TO NUMBER ONE PRIZE, HE'S JUST GOING TO SHARE.
AND HE STARTED SHARING HIS TESTIMONY, HIS STORY.
AND THEN I'D NEVER HEARD A STORY LIKE THAT.
LIKE WHAT HE SAID, I'M LIKE, GOD IS REAL.
AND THEN I HEARD THIS VOICE SAY, JUERGEN,
WHAT HE'S TELLING YOU IS THE TRUTH.
AND I LOOK BEHIND ME AND I THOUGHT I WAS SITTING
AT THE BACK, AND I COULD HAVE SWORE THERE WAS SOMEONE
BEHIND ME THAT JUST SAID TO ME, JUERGEN, WHAT HE'S TELLING YOU
IS THE TRUTH.
AND WHEN I TURNED AROUND, THERE WAS NO ONE THERE.
AND SO I LIKE THE HAIR STOOD UP ON MY ARMS, I GOT GOOSEBUMPS,
AND I'M LIKE, THIS IS FREAKY.
AND THEN HE GAVE AN ALTAR CALL AND HE SAID, YOU KNOW,
THERE ARE PEOPLE HERE.
YOU'VE TRIED DRUGS, GIRLS, BOOZE, YOU KNOW,
EVERYTHING, BUT YOU'RE EMPTY ON THE INSIDE.
YOU'VE GOT A GOD-SHAPED HOLE THAT ONLY GOD CAN FULFILL.
AND SO HE SAID, IF THAT'S YOU, CLOSE YOUR EYES,
PRAY THIS PRAYER.
AND I REMEMBER CLOSING MY EYES, PRAYING THE PRAYER.
AND WHEN I OPENED MY EYES,
IT WAS LIKE THE WHOLE WORLD WAS DIFFERENT.
EVERYTHING WAS STILL IN THE SAME PLACE, THE SAME TREES.
BUT NOW I COULD HEAR THE CICADAS.
I COULD HEAR THE BIRDS, I COULD,
THE ONLY WAY I COULD DESCRIBE IT WAS
IT WAS LIKE I WAS IN A DREAM.
AND I AWOKE FROM THE DREAM
BECAUSE I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND BORN AGAIN.
I'D NEVER READ THE BIBLE.
AND SO THAT WAS KIND OF EVEN A LITTLE BIT OF A PREDICATE
FOR WHY OUR CHURCH IS CALLED AWAKEN,
BECAUSE THAT WAS MY ENCOUNTER.
LIKE I HAD THIS AWAKENED, THIS AWAKENING TO THE REALITY OF GOD.
AND THAT'S REALLY WHAT WE WANT TO BRING TO EVERYWHERE
WHERE WE HAVE A CAMPUS, IS THAT AWAKEN PEOPLE
TO THE REALITY OF GOD AND HIS GOODNESS.
AND SO, YEAH, SO THAT WAS THAT WAS 40 YEARS AGO THIS JANUARY.
REBECCA: WOW.
JUERGEN: YEAH.
REBECCA: IT'S LIKE THAT VERSE, AWAKE, O SLEEPER, ARISE
FROM THE DEAD IN CHRIST WILL SHINE.
JUERGEN: SHINE ON YOU.
REBECCA: YES.
JUERGEN: YEAH, YEAH, YEAH.
REBECCA: THAT'S SO BEAUTIFUL. I JUST LOVE HEARING THAT. OKAY.
SO YOU GET SAVED.
WELL, THEN WHAT WHAT HAPPENS AFTER THAT?
BECAUSE THAT'S JUST LIKE THE FIRST STEP.
JUERGEN: YEAH.
I MEAN, IT WAS SO FUNNY.
I MEAN, THERE'S SO MANY PLACES WE CAN GO.
I'LL TRY AND BE AS SUCCINCT AS I CAN, BUT,
YOU KNOW, I GET HOME AND I'VE GOT, YOU KNOW, I'VE COME FOURTH.
SO I'VE GOT A TROPHY AND SOME PRIZES AND, YOU KNOW,
I WALK IN AND MY BROTHER'S LIKE, HOW'D YOU GO,
HOW'D YOU GO?
I SAID, I CAME FOURTH, HE'S LIKE, FOURTH!
I SAID, HERE'S MY TROPHY, HERE'S MY PRIZES.
I SAID, BUT GUYS, EVEN BETTER.
AND HE'S DRINKING WITH HIS BUDDIES, AND HE'S ONLY 16.
I'M 18, HE'S 16.
HE'S DRINKING DAD'S BEER WITH HIS FRIENDS.
AND I SAID, BUT EVEN BETTER THAN THE PRIZES, I SAID,
I FOUND JESUS. AND THEY'RE LAUGHING,
THINKING IT WAS A JOKE BECAUSE I WAS ALWAYS A JOKESTER.
AND I'M LIKE, NO, GUYS, I'M NOT JOKING RIGHT NOW.
I'M FOR REAL.
LIKE, I'VE FOUND JESUS. AND THEY'RE LAUGHING.
AND I'M LIKE, GUYS, LIKE, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO TELL YOU THIS,
BUT LIKE, I FOUND JESUS CHRIST.
HE'S THE WAY, MAN.
HE'S THE WAY.
SO MY BROTHER, BECAUSE WE LIVED IN A THREE-BEDROOM HOME
AND MY BEDROOM WAS BIGGER THAN HIS BEDROOM
AND HE WANTED MY BEDROOM.
AND MY MUM HAD THREATENED ME THAT IF I COME HOME
STONED ON MARIJUANA ONE MORE TIME, SHE'S GOING TO
KICK ME OUT OF THE HOUSE.
SO HE RUNS UPSTAIRS, GOES MUM, MUM, JUERGEN'S SMOKING POT,
JUERGEN'S BEEN SMOKING POT.
SO SHE COMES DOWN AND SHE'S LIKE, ARE YOU SMOKING MARIJUANA?
I'M LIKE, MUM, NO, I FOUND JESUS. AND SHE SLAPS ME.
SHE GOES, DON'T BE SILLY. HE'S NOT LOST.
I'M LIKE, NO, I WAS LOST, YOU KNOW?
BUT I FOUND JESUS.
SHE'S LIKE, WHAT DO YOU MEAN?
AND SHE'S LIKE, DOING THIS IN MY FACE, YOU KNOW,
THINKING I'M SMOKING POT, AND I'M GOING, I'M LIKE,
MUM, I HAVEN'T BEEN SMOKING.
SHE GOES, THAT'S IT. GET OUT OF MY HOUSE.
I TOLD YOU, SHE DIDN'T BELIEVE THAT I WAS,
I GOT BORN AGAIN.
SHE'S LIKE, THIS IS TOO RADICAL.
YOU'VE GOT TO BE HIGH ON SOMETHING.
SO SHE GOES UPSTAIRS AND STARTS RIPPING OUT ALL MY DRAWERS
WITH MY CLOTHES AND THROWING THEM OFF THE BALCONY.
JONATHAN: OH MY GOSH.
JUERGEN: SO ALL THE NEIGHBORS ARE COMING OUT
AND THEY'RE LOOKING AND SHE'S YELLING AT ME, GOING,
I DON'T WANT A SON SMOKING MARIJUANA IN MY HOUSE.
GET OUT.
AND ALL THE NEIGHBORS ARE LOOKING AND I'M LIKE,
I'M NOT SMOKING MARIJUANA.
I'VE FOUND JESUS AND THE, YOU KNOW.
SO ANYWAY, SO I THROW ALL MY CLOTHES IN MY CAR
AND I'M LIKE, I DON'T KNOW WHERE TO GO.
LOOK, I'VE JUST BEEN KICKED OUT.
SO I DRIVE AROUND TO MY BEST FRIEND'S HOUSE.
HIS NAME WAS PAUL MASSEY.
AND SO I GET AROUND THERE.
I'M LIKE, PAUL, BRO,
I GOT NOWHERE TO STAY.
I'VE GOT TO SLEEP IN MY CAR.
AND HE'S LIKE, OH MAN, YOU CAN SLEEP ON MY FLOOR.
AND HE GOES, WHAT HAPPENED?
I TOLD HIM WHAT HAPPENED.
HE GOES, HANG ON.
HE GOES, I GO TO MASS EVERY WEEK.
I'VE NEVER EXPERIENCED THAT.
HE GOES, DO IT TO ME.
I'M LIKE, DO WHAT?
HE GOES, WELL, I DON'T KNOW.
YOU'RE DIFFERENT.
WHATEVER.
WHATEVER IS DONE TO YOU, DO IT TO ME.
AND I SAID, OH, WELL, YOU,
O GOD, YOU'VE GOT TO BOW YOUR HEAD.
HE GOES, WHAT?
I SAID, YOU GOT TO BOW YOUR HEAD AND SAID,
YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO PEEK.
I SAID, EVERY EYE CLOSED.
HE WAS LIKE THIS.
I SAID, OH, YOU GOT TO PRAY A PRAYER.
HE GOES, OH YEAH, I GOT THIS.
HE GOES, YOU KNOW, HOLY MARY,
BLESSED BE THE FRUIT OF THY WOMB.
I SAID, NO, THAT'S NOT IT.
MOTHER OF GOD.
I SAID, THAT'S NOT IT.
THAT'S NOT IT.
HE GOES, OH, I KNOW ANOTHER ONE.
YOU KNOW, OUR FATHER, WHO -- I SAID, THAT'S NOT IT, EITHER.
HE GOES, THEY'RE THE ONLY TWO PRAYERS.
I SAID, WELL, IT'S A DIFFERENT ONE.
AND I SAID, IT'S SOMETHING ABOUT JESUS
DYING ON THE CROSS.
AND HE GOES, DIDN'T WORK.
I'M LIKE, OH, I SAID, I DID IT WRONG, I DID IT WRONG.
BOW YOUR HEAD.
I SAID, YOU GOT TO CLOSE BOTH EYES.
I SAID, YOU GOT TO RAISE YOUR HAND.
HE GOES, YOUR WHAT?
I SAID, I DON'T KNOW.
YOU'VE GOT TO RAISE YOUR HAND
BECAUSE I THOUGHT IT WAS A FORMULA.
REBECCA: YOU ALWAYS THINK YOU RAISE YOUR HAND.
JUERGEN: SO HE PUTS HIS HEAD DOWN.
HE RAISED HIS HAND.
HE'S LIKE, THIS IS STUPID.
I SAID, NO, STOP IT, YOU GOT.
SO HE'S LIKE THIS, I SAID, AND HE GOES, OH,
THAT'S WHAT YOU GOT TO REPENT OF YOUR SINS
BECAUSE REPENT OF MY SINS.
LIKE WHICH OF THEM?
LIKE ALL OF THEM?
SAID, YEAH, ALL OF THEM.
HE GOES, OH, MAN, I DON'T THINK WE GOT TIME.
WELL, YOU DON'T HAVE TO TELL ME.
I SAID, JUST, YOU KNOW, BETWEEN YOU AND GOD.
AND SO HE DOES THIS: REPENT.
AND THEN HE OPENS HIS EYES.
HE GOES, OH MY GOD.
HE GOES, I FEEL DIFFERENT, I FEEL DIFFERENT.
AND SO WE START GOING TO CHRISTIAN SURFERS TOGETHER.
ANYWAY, HE THEN TELLS ME, WE'VE GOT TO GO TO CHURCH.
I SAID, NO, NO, I DON'T THINK WE'VE GOT TO GO TO CHURCH.
HE GOES, YEAH, WE'VE GOT TO GO TO CHURCH.
AND SO WE GO TO THE CATHOLIC MASS.
AND I REMEMBER THIS, YOU KNOW, THE HOLY WATER IN THE FRONT.
SO WE DO THE HOLY WATER THING.
SO I THINK THAT'S WHAT YOU GOT TO DO.
AND I LOOK OVER AND I SEE THE DRUG DEALER,
LIKE THE BIGGEST DRUG DEALER,
THE GUYS TO SELL ME DRUGS AT THE BEACH.
WALKING UP, I'M THINKING, IT'S REVIVAL.
OH, MY, YOU'RE SAVED, TOO.
AND HE LOOKS AT ME AND HE, YOU KNOW, AND HE GOES,
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
I SAID, THIS IS AWESOME.
HE GOES, I'VE BEEN COMING SINCE I WAS A BABY.
I'M LIKE, WAIT, WHAT?
AND THEN I SEE, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE BIGGEST WOMANIZERS,
YOU KNOW, AND I'M LIKE, HANG ON, THERE'S SOMETHING WITH THIS.
AND WE WALK IN AND I HAVE NO IDEA THAT WHEN YOU FIND
YOUR PEW THAT YOU'RE GOING TO SIT IN, YOU'VE GOT TO GENUFLECT,
YOU'VE GOT TO GET DOWN ON ONE KNEE
AND DO THE CROSS, YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT JESUS
HANGING ON THE CROSS.
WELL, I'M WALKING INTO CHURCH, AND I'M ONLY NEWLY SAVED.
I'M CHECKING OUT THE TALENT.
I'M LIKE, WOW, SHE'S PRETTY.
WOW.
SHE'S HOT.
SHE'S.
AND I DON'T SEE THAT
PAUL'S DROPPED TO HIS KNEE IN FRONT OF ME, SO I GO
STRAIGHT OVER THE TOP OF HIM, AND COLORFUL LANGUAGE
COMES OUT OF MY MOUTH AND, YOU KNOW, OH, BLANK, BLANK.
AND SO ANYWAY, SO WE GET IN THERE AND THEN IT'S UP AND DOWN,
UP AND DOWN.
AND AT THE END, THE PRIEST GIVES THIS, YOU KNOW,
KIND OF BENEDICTION AND THIS CALL FORWARD
TO RECEIVE COMMUNION.
AND I'M LISTENING AND I'M THINKING, OH,
HE'S DESCRIBING WHAT HAPPENED TO ME.
YEAH.
THAT'S WHAT.
SO I GO FORWARD, AND I HAVE NO IDEA,
I'VE NEVER BEEN TO A CATHOLIC MASS,
BUT THEY PUT THE WAFER ON YOUR TONGUE,
AND YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO CHEW IT,
AND YOU'RE MEANT TO FACE THE ALTAR,
AND YOU LET IT DISSOLVE
BECAUSE IT BECOMES THE BODY OF CHRIST.
SO I'M LOOKING AT JESUS ON THE CROSS.
START CHEWING.
IT STUCK TO THE ROOF OF MY MOUTH.
AND GO LIKE THIS.
AND I, YOU KNOW, GIVE THE PRIEST THE THUMBS UP.
AND THE PRIEST IS LIKE, BECAUSE HE'S NEVER SEEN ME.
I NEVER DID HOLY COMMUNION.
AND I TURN AROUND AND I SEE MY NEXT DOOR NEIGHBORS,
WHO WERE DEVOUT CATHOLICS, AND THEY ARE JUST AGHAST.
AND SO I GET HOME, AND MRS. LAWLER, MY NEIGHBOR,
HAS ALREADY CALLED MY MUM.
SHE SAYS, LISTEN, I UNDERSTAND THAT YOUR SON HAS NO REVERENCE
AND THAT HE'S OUT OF CONTROL,
BUT WOULD YOU PLEASE, IF HE WANTS TO MAKE A MOCKERY
OF OUR RELIGION,
HE CAME INTO CHURCH AND LITERALLY CHEWED
THE BODY OF CHRIST LIKE HE CHEWED JESUS LIKE.
AND SO MY MUM'S GIVING ME THIS.
SO ANYWAY, SO I HAD THIS RADICAL,
EVERYTHING WAS RADICAL, EVERYTHING WAS BRAND NEW.
AND I'M LIKE, AND SO EVERYTHING IS NEW.
SO THEN SOMEONE GAVE ME A BIBLE.
I STARTED READING THE BIBLE AND I'M LIKE, ARE YOU KIDDING?
THIS IS IN THE BIBLE?!
LIKE, I LOVE THE BIBLE, LOVE THE WORD OF GOD.
SO EVERYTHING WAS LIKE THIS BRAND NEW, BRAND NEW,
BRAND NEW ON FIRE.
YEAH.
REBECCA: WELL, HOW DID YOU FIND A CHURCH?
BECAUSE IT DIDN'T SOUND LIKE IT
WENT TOO WELL.
JONATHAN: DID YOU STILL GO TO THE CATHOLIC MASS?
JUERGEN: NO.
WELL, OKAY.
SO CAN I TELL, IS IT OKAY IF I'M TELLING STORIES?
REBECCA: YES.
NO, THIS IS WHAT THIS IS ABOUT.
JUERGEN: OKAY.
REBECCA: I LOVE IT.
I CAN TELL HE'S LOVING IT, TOO.
JONATHAN: YEAH, I LOVE IT.
REBECCA: I LOVE HEARING PEOPLE'S STORIES.
JUERGEN: I PROMISE
I'M GOING TO LET LEANNE SPEAK AT SOME POINT.
REBECCA: WE'LL GET INTO HER STORY, TOO.
JUERGEN: ALL RIGHT.
SO THIS IS A TRUE STORY.
SO TRUE STORY.
SO I NOW GET MY MY JOB AS A TRAINEE MECHANICAL ENGINEER.
AND I'VE GOT TWO FRIENDS THERE WHO, BECAUSE I WAS THE LARRIKIN,
I WAS THE STORYTELLER.
THEY JUST LOVED ME.
THEY WANTED TO DO, AND I, YOU KNOW,
RULES FOR ME WERE SUGGESTIONS.
THEY WERE NEVER RULES.
SO I'M STILL LEARNING ALL OF THIS, TRYING TO BE A CHRISTIAN.
BUT I WAS LIKE THE GUY PUSHING THE ENVELOPE, YOU KNOW, ALWAYS.
SO JERRY AND DOUGO, THEY BECAME MY LITTLE STOOGES.
THEY WOULD FOLLOW ME EVERYWHERE LIKE, WHAT ARE YOU,
WHAT ARE WE DOING TODAY?
AND SO ANYWAY, THERE WAS A MOVIE PLAYING,
CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT MOVIE IT WAS, AT OUR LOCAL CINEMA.
SO WE GO TO THE CINEMA, AND THERE'S THREE OF US BOYS.
AND THEN THESE THREE, AGAIN,
IT'S DARK IN THE CINEMA,
SO IN INVERTED COMMAS, THREE HOT BLONDES COME
AND SIT RIGHT IN FRONT OF US.
I'M LIKE, THIS IS SO GOD, YOU KNOW?
AND ANYWAY, BACK THEN, THEY WOULD HAVE LIKE THIS
SHORT LITTLE FEATURE FILM AND THEN INTERMISSION
AND THEN THE MAIN FILM WOULD COME ON.
SO, YOU KNOW, I CAN'T REMEMBER RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK ,
WHATEVER IT WAS, WAS THE MAIN FILM,
BUT THERE WAS THIS LITTLE, YOU KNOW, FEATURE,
LIKE A LITTLE 15-MINUTE, YOU KNOW,
FROM THE CANNES FILM FESTIVAL
OR SOMETHING THAT THEY TAG ON.
SO INTERMISSION COMES, AND THE THREE GIRLS GET UP
TO GO TO THE, YOU KNOW, THE CANDY BAR TO, YOU KNOW,
BUY POPCORN AND WHATEVER.
AND DOUGO, WHO WAS 6'3", PUTS HIS HAND ON MY SHOULDER,
SQUASHES ME INTO THE SEAT.
HE GOES, I'M GOING.
I'M FOLLOWING THEM.
I'M LIKE, OH, DOUGO, YOU DOG, LIKE.
AND SO ANYWAY, SO DOUGO COMES BACK ABOUT TEN MINUTES LATER
AND HIS EYES ARE LIKE DEER IN THE HEADLIGHTS,
AND HE'S GOT A GIANT SODA AND A GIANT POPCORN,
AND HE JUST COMES, LIKE, WALKING IN THE AISLE.
AND THEN HE SITS DOWN NEXT TO ME, LIKE,
LIKE HIS EYES ARE STILL LIKE THIS.
AND I'M LIKE, DOUGO, DOUGO, ARE YOU ALL RIGHT, BRO?
DOUGO, WHAT'S GOING ON?
AND HE GOES, YOU KNOW THOSE THREE GIRLS?
I'M LIKE, YEAH.
HE GOES, THEY'RE CHRISTIANS.
I'M LIKE, WHOA, THAT IS WHAT, GOD!
AND SO ANYWAY,
THEY COME IN.
AND SO I TAPPED THE GIRL IN FRONT OF ME ON THE SHOULDER
AND SAID, ARE YOU A CHRISTIAN?
SHE GOES, YEAH.
I SAID, SO AM I.
SHE GOES, REALLY?
I SAID, YEAH, I GOT SAVED IN CHRISTIAN SERVICE.
SHE GOES, WHAT CHURCH DO YOU GO TO?
WHAT CHURCH DO YOU GO TO?
SHE GOES, I GO TO WOLLONGONG CHURCH OF CHRIST.
SO DO I.
AND SHE GOES, SINCE WHEN?
I SAID, AND SATURDAY NIGHT, I SAID, TOMORROW. SHE GOES,
REALLY?
I SAID, YEAH.
SHE GOES, ALL RIGHT. WELL I'LL MEET YOU IN THE FOYER AT 10:00.
I'M LIKE, O GOD, HOW AWESOME ARE YOU?
I GET SAVED LIKE THREE MONTHS AGO, AND NOW YOU'VE GOT MY WIFE.
LIKE, HOW GOD YOU ARE.
HELLO.
ANYWAY, CINEMA LIGHTING IS VERY DIFFERENT TO CHURCH FOYER LIGHT.
JONATHAN: OH, YEAH.
JUERGEN: SO SUFFICE TO SAY I DIDN'T MARRY THAT GIRL,
YOU KNOW, SO.
BUT IT WAS ENOUGH TO GET ME TO WOLLONGONG CHURCH OF CHRIST,
WHERE I DID MEET MY LITTLE FOXY CLEOPATRA
OVER HERE, LEANNE.
REBECCA: WAIT, THAT'S WHAT YOU WERE FROM THERE?
LEANNE: YES.
THAT'S RIGHT.
YES, THAT'S WHERE WE MET IN CHURCH.
YEAH.
REBECCA: WAIT A SECOND.
JONATHAN: AND HOW LONG AFTER YOU STARTED GOING TO THAT CHURCH
DID YOU MEET?
LEANNE: WHEN DID YOU GET, WHAT YEAR WAS IT?
1990?
JUERGEN: THAT WAS 19,
THAT WAS 1980.
YEAH, 1986,
I GOT SAVED.
LEANNE: OKAY.
JUERGEN: AND THEN I THINK I MET YOU 1989.
SO THREE YEARS LATER.
JONATHAN: SO YOU WERE THERE IN THAT CHURCH FOR THREE YEARS,
AND YOU JOINED AT WHAT POINT?
JUERGEN: OR '88, I THINK.
LEANNE: YEAH, ABOUT '88.
MY FAMILY MOVED OVER FROM THE ANGLICAN CHURCH.
BY THIS POINT, WE WERE KIND OF GETTING A LITTLE
MORE HUNGRY FOR SOMETHING MORE.
AND THE CHURCH OF CHRIST AT THAT POINT WAS JUST
MORE VIBRANT AND EXPRESSIVE IN THEIR WORSHIP.
JUERGEN: AND IT WAS GREAT FOR YOUNG PEOPLE.
LEANNE: YEAH.
JONATHAN: SO YOU GUYS MET IN LIKE A YOUNG ADULTS ENVIRONMENT
OR SOMETHING?
LEANNE: YEAH.
WE MET --
JUERGEN: YEAH.
YOUTH, YOUNG ADULTS ENVIRONMENT.
I USED TO WORK WITH HER SISTER,
SO WE WERE PART OF A MODELING ACADEMY.
AND SO YEAH, AND IT WAS LIKE ALL LIKE THE BEST-LOOKING
YOUNG PEOPLE IN OUR TOWN CALLED WOLLONGONG,
ALL WENT TO WOLLONGONG CHURCH OF CHRIST.
AND THE PREACHING WAS EXCEPTIONAL.
THE MINISTRY WAS EXCEPTIONAL.
THEY HAD A CHRISTIAN NIGHTSPOT CALLED JONAH'S NIGHTSPOT,
WHERE THEY WOULD GET THE BEST CHRISTIAN BANDS
FROM ALL OVER AUSTRALIA.
LEANNE: THAT'S WHERE OUR FIRST KISS HAPPENED,
ACTUALLY, ON NEW YEAR'S EVE AT JONAH'S NIGHTSPOT.
JUERGEN: I STILL REMEMBER IT, CLASSY, I STILL REMEMBER IT
LIKE IT WAS YESTERDAY, THE FIRST TIME MY LIPS TOUCHED HERS.
AND SHE WAS WITH A FRIEND
WHO, YEAH.
MAYBE THAT'S A STORY I SHOULDN'T SHARE ON A PODCAST.
JONATHAN: DO YOU STILL REMEMBER OUR FIRST KISS?
REBECCA: YES.
PLEASE DON'T TELL OUR STORY.
THAT'S EMBARRASSING.
JUERGEN: DO TELL.
DO TELL.
JONATHAN: IT'S SO FUNNY.
REBECCA: IT IS SO EMBARRASSING.
JONATHAN: WHAT WERE YOU GONNA ASK?
SORRY.
REBECCA: MY QUESTION IS,
OKAY,
HOW DID YOU KNOW TO LEAD HER FAMILY IN THE MINISTRY
OF THE HOLY SPIRIT?
BECAUSE YOU WERE JUST STARTED GETTING DISCIPLED,
AND Y'ALL WERE --
JONATHAN: THEY'D BEEN IN CHURCH FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS
AT THAT POINT.
JUERGEN: YEAH, YEAH.
SO, SO.
REBECCA: SO YOU GO TO THAT CHURCH,
LEANNE: WE DATED FOR A COUPLE YEARS.
JUERGEN: YES.
LEANNE: AND SO
WE STARTED DATING IN 1990.
JUERGEN: AND I HAD JUST GOTTEN KICKED OUT OF THE CHURCH.
JONATHAN: WHY?
JUERGEN: BECAUSE THE THE SENIOR PASTOR SPOKE IN TONGUES
JONATHAN: YOU GOT KICKED OUT OF YOUR HOME,
KICKED OUT OF YOUR CHURCH.
JUERGEN: BUT HIS, THERE'S A GUY WHO WAS THE CHAIRMAN
OF THE BOARD, AND IT WAS A VERY BOARD-RUN CHURCH.
THE CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD WAS VERY HIGH UP IN FREEMASONRY
AND WAS VERY ANTI THE THINGS OF THE SPIRIT.
SO THE SENIOR PASTOR WAS ALLOWED TO PRAY IN TONGUES AT HOME,
BUT NOT IN CHURCH, YOU KNOW.
REBECCA: THAT'S CRAZY.
JUERGEN: AND THEN WHAT HAPPENED IS THEY HAD A YOUNG ADULTS,
EXCUSE ME, A JUNIOR HIGH LEADER FALL.
HE ENDED UP GOING TO PRISON.
AND SO THEY ASKED ME TO TAKE OVER ONE OF THE
JUNIOR HIGH CONNECT GROUPS THAT HAD ABOUT 40 STUDENTS AT IT.
AND ANYWAY, I'M JUST SHARING.
AND I STARTED SHARING ON THE HOLY SPIRIT.
AND THE HOLY SPIRIT FELL.
AND ALL OF A SUDDEN, THIS GIRL STARTS MANIFESTING A DEMON.
AND SO I JUST DO WHAT YOU DO.
I JUST CAST THE DEMON OUT.
I DIDN'T THINK TWICE ABOUT IT, YOU KNOW, COME OUT
IN THE NAME OF, THE DEMON COMES OUT, WELL, THE NEXT MINUTE,
IT'S SCANDAL.
AND THE BIGGEST, THE BIGGEST GOSSIP IN THE CHURCH,
MRS. HURST, SHE'S CONTACTED THE PASTOR,
SAYING, HEY, JUST SO YOU KNOW, YOU'VE GOT
THIS RADICAL ZEALOT DOING...
LEANNE: EXORCISMS.
JUERGEN: EXORCISMS IN OUR, YOU KNOW, JUNIOR HIGH.
AND I'M LIKE, EXORCISM?
I JUST CAST A DEMON OUT.
WHAT ARE YOU, LIKE, THE KID, I TALKED TO THE KID,
THE KID'S FREE.
LEANNE: IT'S IN THE BIBLE,
JUERGEN: YOU KNOW?
AND SO, ANYWAY, I HAD TO GO.
REBECCA: AND ALSO, YOU WEREN'T TRYING TO DO THAT.
IT MANIFESTED, AND SO YOU CASTED IT OUT.
THAT'S A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SITUATION.
JUERGEN: AND SO I HAD TO GO BEFORE THE BOARD
REBECCA: AND WHAT WERE YOU, WHAT WOULD YOU,
WHAT DID IT FEEL LIKE?
JUERGEN: IT WAS HILARIOUS.
LIKE I'M LIKE, WHAT IS GOING ON?
SO ANYWAY, SO --
REBECCA: HOW OLD WERE YOU AT THAT POINT?
JONATHAN: 21, 22?
JUERGEN: ACTUALLY, YEAH, COMING UP 20...
YEAH.
BETWEEN 20 AND 21 WAS, IT WAS ALMOST A WHOLE YEAR.
AND THEN THE LAST STRAW WAS THE PASTOR WAS PREACHING
AGAINST PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, PRAYING FOR PEOPLE
IN THE HOLY SPIRIT, CASTING OUT DEMONS
AND ALL THIS KIND OF STUFF.
AND THEN, AND EVERYONE'S LIKE LOOKING DIRECTLY AT ME,
AND I'M THINKING...
REBECCA: OH, MY GOD.
JUERGEN: THIS SOUNDS LIKE ME, YOU KNOW?
AND THEN I REALIZED HE WAS TALKING ABOUT ME.
AND SO THEN THEY ASKED ME TO, YOU KNOW, TO LEAVE.
SO I HAD TO LEAVE.
BUT AT THAT PARTICULAR TIME, YOU KNOW, I WAS,
OBVIOUSLY, I WENT FROM THE SHINING LIGHT TO, OKAY,
THE BLACK SHEEP.
BUT HER MUM AND DAD WANTED TO KNOW,
BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T DENY MY FAITH AND MY PASSION FOR CHRIST.
AND THEY WERE VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY
CURIOUS, REALLY, ABOUT THE THINGS OF THE SPIRIT,
EVEN THOUGH THEIR THEOLOGY WAS CESSATIONAL THEOLOGY.
BUT, YOU KNOW, AS SOON AS SOMEONE GOT HEALED
AND AS SOON AS SOMEONE GOT DELIVERED AND AS SOON AS,
THEN THEY COULDN'T DENY THE POWER.
YEAH, BUT HER DAD AND HER SISTER WERE THE LAST
TO GET THE BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.
AND THAT'S A REALLY POWERFUL STORY.
I PRAYED FOR HER DAD, AND HE GOT DELIVERED FROM
A WHOLE BUNCH OF STUFF FROM HIS PAST AND FREEMASONRY
ON MY LOUNGE ROOM IN NEW ZEALAND.
AND LITERALLY, GOD SAYS IT'S NOT FINISHED
JUST WITH THE DEMONS COMING OUT,
NOW FILL HIM WITH THE HOLY GHOST.
SO I PRAYED FOR THAT.
AND HE STARTS SPEAKING IN TONGUES.
AS HE'S SPEAKING IN TONGUES, THE HOLY SPIRIT
SAYS, KEEP HIM GOING, KEEP HIM GOING, KEEP HIM GOING.
JUST DON'T LET HIM STOP SPEAKING IN TONGUES.
I'M CLEANING OUT, YOU KNOW,
THE REST OF THE JUNK THAT'S IN THERE.
BECAUSE WHEN THE HOLY GHOST MOVES IN AND HE CLEANS HOUSE.
YEAH, WELL, WHILE THE PHONE RINGS AND I'M THINKING,
WHO'S CALLING AT 10:30 P.M. AT NIGHT NEW ZEALAND?
WELL, IT'S 8:30 P.M.
IN NEWCASTLE, AUSTRALIA, AND IT'S HER SISTER.
LEANNE: WE'D BEEN MARRIED AT THIS POINT, BY THE WAY.
JONATHAN: OKAY.
JUERGEN: AND HER SISTER HAD BEEN PRAYED
FOR PROBABLY A DOZEN TIMES
TO RECEIVE THE BAPTISM.
NOTHING, NOTHING.
AND SHE'S ON THE PHONE AND SHE'S HYSTERICAL AND I'M LIKE,
JANINE, STOP, STOP LIKE, WHAT'S GOING ON?
WHAT'S GOING ON?
SHE GOES, LISTEN, LISTEN.
[ SPEAKING IN TONGUES ]
SHE GOES, I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED, BUT LIKE
LITERALLY 15 MINUTES AGO, SAME TIME I PRAYED FOR
THE DEMONS TO COME OUT OF DAD
AND TO BE FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST,
SHE GOES, I WAS LEAVING CHURCH, WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN
8:30 OR LIKE 8:15 AT NIGHT ON A SUNDAY NIGHT,
BECAUSE THEY DO SUNDAY NIGHT CHURCH IN AUSTRALIA,
SHE GOES, AND I FELT SOMETHING IN MY CHEST,
AND THEN SOMETHING COME OUT, AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN,
THIS BEAUTIFUL LIGHT, AND NOW I'M SPEAKING IN TONGUES.
OH MY GOD, OH MY GOD.
SO BECAUSE OF THAT BOND THAT THEY HAD
BETWEEN MOTHER AND FATHER AND DAUGHTER,
WHEN HE GOT SET FREE, SHE GOT SET FREE.
WHEN HE GOT FILLED, SHE GOT FILLED.
EVEN THOUGH THEY WERE IN TWO DIFFERENT NATIONS,
IT WAS REALLY POWERFUL.
JONATHAN: THAT'S REALLY COOL.
REBECCA: HOW DID YOU KNOW WHAT TO DO IN THAT MOMENT?
JUERGEN: I JUST FOLLOW THE HOLY GHOST.
LIKE I'M,
I'M SMART ENOUGH TO REALIZE HOW DUMB I AM.
REBECCA: THAT'S ACTUALLY A GOOD WORD, THOUGH.
THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THE GUY WAS TALKING ABOUT YESTERDAY, TOO,
BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE
SCHOOLS AND STUFF AND ALL THAT.
BUT SOMETIMES, LIKE, PEOPLE HAVE STORIES,
AND YOU DIDN'T GO TO BIBLE COLLEGE, BUT IT'S LIKE
YOU DON'T HAVE ANYONE
OR YOU DON'T REALLY HAVE THAT MUCH DISCIPLESHIP,
AND YOU REALLY JUST HAVE TO BE LED BY THE SPIRIT.
THAT'S SO COOL, THOUGH, HOW YOU IMPACTED HER WHOLE,
HER WHOLE FAMILY.
WHAT DID YOUR FAMILY END UP THINKING IN THE LONG RUN?
JUERGEN: SO MY MOTHER GOT SAVED, MY BROTHER GOT SAVED,
AND NOW MY DAD TELLS EVERYBODY THAT WE'RE F'ING CHRISTIANS.
REBECCA: REALLY?
JUERGEN: SO HE'S REALLY CLOSE.
LEANNE: YEAH.
REBECCA: HE IS.
YEAH, YEAH, YEAH.
OH MY GOODNESS.
JONATHAN: AND THEY'RE ALL STILL IN AUSTRALIA?
JUERGEN: YEAH.
MY MOTHER DIED IN 2008.
AND IT WAS,
THAT WAS EVEN, THAT WAS A VERY BEAUTIFUL STORY.
SHE DIED VERY YOUNG.
SHE WAS ONLY 59 WHEN SHE DIED.
AND, YOU KNOW, SO WHAT'S BEAUTIFUL ABOUT AUSTRALIA
IS WE HAVE FREE HEALTHCARE.
THE DOWNSIDE IS, YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.
JONATHAN: IT'S NOT VERY GOOD.
JUERGEN: SO THEY PUT HER ON A MENOPAUSE DRUG
THAT THEY THEN RIPPED OFF THE MARKET BECAUSE IT BROUGHT ON
THE CALCIFICATION OF THE BRAIN.
SO AT 53, SHE GOT DEMENTIA, AND ENDED UP DYING OF ALZHEIMER'S
AT 59.
REBECCA: THAT'S AWFUL.
JUERGEN: YEAH.
BUT I'M PRAYING ALL THESE PEOPLE ARE GETTING HEALED IN MY CHURCH,
AND MY MUM'S GETTING WORSE.
AND THEN THIS ONE, I GOT A PHONE CALL FROM MY YOUNGER BROTHER
SAYING, MUM'S TAKING A TURN FOR THE WORST.
WE DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH LONGER SHE'S GOT.
I GET UP, I CAN'T SLEEP, IT'S LIKE 4 A.M.
I GO FOR A PRAYER WALK AND I COME BACK AT ABOUT MAYBE
JUST BEFORE 5:00 AND I WAKE LEANNE.
I SAID, BABE, BABE, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BELIEVE IT.
I WAS ON THIS PRAYER WALK, PRAYING FOR MY MUM TO BE HEALED,
AND I HEARD GOD SPEAK TO ME AND HE SAID,
I'M GOING TO GIVE YOU A DAUGHTER AND SHE'S GOING TO
COMFORT YOU WHEN YOUR MOTHER COMES HOME TO HEAVEN.
AND SO I'LL WAKE HER UP.
BABE, BABE, YOU'RE NOT GONNA BELIEVE WHAT GOD SAYS.
YOU'RE NOT GONNA BELIEVE WHAT GOD SAID.
AND SHE'S LIKE, WHAT?
WHAT? WHAT?
I SAID,
WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A DAUGHTER!
SHE GOES, NOT OUT OF THIS BODY.
AND BECAUSE WE'D ALREADY HAD THREE SONS, SHE GOES,
BESIDES, YOU ONLY KNOW HOW TO MAKE BOYS, LIKE,
WELL, GOD TOLD ME SO.
SIX WEEKS LATER, SHE'S PREGNANT.
AND SURE ENOUGH, WITH OUR OUR LITTLE SMUSHKIE, OUR LITTLE ZOE,
AND ZOE WAS BORN THE SAME YEAR MUM PASSED.
REBECCA: WOW.
LEANNE: YEAH.
AN ANSWER TO PRAYER.
JUERGEN: SO MUM DIED IN APRIL, AND ZOE WAS BORN
FOUR MONTHS LATER IN AUGUST.
AND SHE LITERALLY, FROM WHEN SHE WAS BORN
HAS JUST BEEN A COMFORT.
AND SO MY MOTHER'S NAME IS IN HER MIDDLE NAME.
REBECCA: OH, THAT'S SUCH A COOL STORY.
JUERGEN: YEAH.
GOD IS SO GOOD.
JONATHAN: DID YOU GUYS LIVE IN NEW ZEALAND AT SOME POINT,
OR...?
JUERGEN: SEVEN YEARS.
LEANNE: YEAH, WE DID SEVEN YEARS.
JUERGEN: WHEN I FINISHED BIBLE COLLEGE.
LEANNE: THE FIRST SEVEN YEARS OF OUR MARRIAGE,
WE LIVED IN NEW ZEALAND.
JONATHAN: WHAT MADE YOU MOVE THERE?
LEANNE: WE HAD AN OPPORTUNITY --
REBECCA: WE HAVE TO ALSO EXPLAIN HOW THEY GOT TOGETHER,
BECAUSE WE NEVER EXPLAINED THAT.
JONATHAN: YEAH, WE DID. THEY MET IN CHURCH,
IN YOUNG ADULT SERVICE.
REBECCA: YOU DON'T WANT ANY MORE TEA THAN THAT?
JUST THAT THEY MET IN CHURCH?
THERE'S ACTUALLY CUTE STORIES.
JUERGEN: I'LL TELL YOU,
WHAT WAS INTERESTING WAS, I'M IN CHURCH --
REBECCA: I WANT THE STORY.
JUERGEN: WELL, I'M IN CHURCH, AND I WAS
DATING A GIRL THAT WAS IN OUR MODELING ACADEMY.
AND THEN SHE KIND OF BROKE UP WITH ME,
AND I WAS PRETTY DEVASTATED.
AND I'M IN CHURCH, AND THEN THEY SAY, HEY, YOU KNOW,
TURN AROUND AND GREET THE PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, BEHIND YOU.
AND THIS BEAUTIFUL COUPLE TURN AROUND, AND HE SAYS,
HI, YOU KNOW, I'M ALAN, AND THIS IS MY WIFE, VALERIE.
AND I SAID, OH, HI, ALAN.
NICE TO MEET YOU, ALAN.
I'M JUERGEN. AND VALERIE,
NICE TO MEET YOU.
AND SHE GOES, HANG ON.
WAIT, YOU'RE JUERGEN?
I SAID, YEAH. SHE GOES, OH, MY DAUGHTERS TALK ABOUT YOU
ALL THE TIME.
I SAID, OH, WHO ARE YOUR DAUGHTERS?
SHE GOES, OH, WELL, MAINLY, YOU KNOW, JULIE,
JANINE, AND LEANNE. SAID, OH, WHAT'S YOUR LAST NAME?
GRAY.
AND I'M LIKE, OH, LEANNE GRAY, LEANNE GRAY.
WELL, CHURCH FINISHES, AND THIS KIND OF THE GOSSIP
OF OUR CHURCH, MONICA HARTLEY, COMES UP TO ME.
SHE GOES, I KNOW SOMEONE WHO LIKES YOU.
LEANNE: EVERY CHURCH HAS ONE.
JUERGEN: AND I'M LIKE,
I KNOW, I KNOW SOMEONE WHO LIKES ME, TOO.
MONICA, YOU DO.
YOU KNOW, LIKE SHE HAD A LITTLE BIT, BUT I THINK
SHE WAS HOPING THAT I'D SAY I DON'T LIKE LEANNE.
I REALLY LIKE YOU, MONICA.
AND SHE GOES, LEANNE GRAY.
I'M LIKE, HANG ON.
WAIT, WHAT?
I JUST MET HER MOM AND DAD.
OH, THAT'S CRAZY.
THAT COULD NEVER BE.
AND SO THAT BEGAN THE JOURNEY OF INQUISITIVENESS.
AND I THOUGHT, THERE'S NO WAY.
JONATHAN: WAS IT TRUE? DID YOU LIKE HIM AT THAT POINT?
LEANNE: YES, ABSOLUTELY.
SO HANDSOME, SO CHARISMATIC, PASSIONATE
ABOUT THE LORD.
AND I THINK WE WERE --
JUERGEN: SHE GREW UP ON A FARM, SO I'M LIKE,
SHE'S JUST SEES COWS,
AND THEN ME, AND I'M THE SLIGHTLY BETTER OPTION.
JONATHAN: THE MODEL, THE SURFER.
LEANNE: HE WAS MY FIRST AND ONLY BOYFRIEND.
MY FIRST AND ONLY KISS.
OH, SO IT WAS,
IT WAS ACTUALLY REALLY BEAUTIFUL.
AND FOR ME, IT WAS DEFINITELY LOVE AT FIRST SIGHT.
AND THE MORE I GOT TO KNOW HIM, THE MORE I LOVED HIM.
AND WE DATED FOR TWO YEARS.
JUERGEN: AND I THOUGHT, SHE'S WAY TOO PRETTY.
LIKE, YOU KNOW, ONCE I FOUND OUT SHE LIKED ME,
I'M LIKE, OKAY, ANYBODY THAT PRETTY IS GOING TO BE
SO FULL OF THEMSELVES, IT'S GOING TO BE.
SO THEN I'M TALKING TO HER AND GOING, DOES SHE NOT REALIZE
HOW PRETTY SHE IS?
LIKE, YEAH, YOU ARE SO DOWN TO EARTH.
AND SHE WAS CHEEKY, LIKE SHE WAS MISCHIEVOUS.
LEANNE: I NEED TO BE TO KEEP UP WITH HIM.
JUERGEN: AND HER PARENTS ARE LIKE, OH, SHE WOULD, YOU KNOW,
TIP OVER PEOPLE'S POTTED PLANTS
AND SHE WOULD DO THIS AND SHE WOULD DO THAT.
I'M LIKE, GUYS, YOU ALREADY HAD ME AT SHE'S BEAUTIFUL,
BUT SHE'S GOT PERSONALITY TO BOOT.
AND SO THEN, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW THIS CAME ABOUT,
AND I'M, I PROBABLY SHOULDN'T EVEN SHARE IT ON THE PODCAST.
BUT HER NICKNAME FOR ME WAS STINKY.
LEANNE: YEAH, BECAUSE --
JUERGEN: HOW ARE YOU DOING, STINKY?
I'M LIKE --
LEANNE: THAT'S VERY AUSTRALIAN.
YOU'VE GOT TO KNOW AUSSIES.
EVERYTHING ABOUT OUR NICKNAMES IS DEPRECATING IN SOME WAY,
LIKE THEY'RE NEVER POSITIVE.
I KNOW
YOU KNOW AUSSIES.
JUERGEN: BUT I'M LIKE,
I DON'T LIKE THE NICKNAME, BUT I LOVE THAT
YOU'RE SO BOLD THAT YOU CALL ME STINKY.
AND EVERYONE'S LIKE, WHY IS SHE CALLING YOU STINKY?
LEANNE: IT WAS
KIND OF CUTE.
JUERGEN: I'M LIKE, I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHY.
LEANNE: IT WAS CUTE.
JUERGEN: I'M SURE I HAVEN'T IN THE CAR.
LEANNE: I HAVEN'T DONE THAT FOR A WHILE.
REBECCA: I WAS GOING TO ASK, IS THAT STILL THE NICKNAME?
LEANNE: BUT NO, NOT ANYMORE.
REBECCA: IT'S NOT ANYMORE?
JUERGEN: YEAH, YEAH.
I MEAN, YEAH, SHE'S HAD A FEW.
I DO CALL HER ROONEY BECAUSE THE FAMILY ARE FROM IRELAND,
AND SO THERE'S A, SO THEY CALL HER LEANNY ROONEY.
REBECCA: YEAH, THAT'S COOL.
JONATHAN: I LIKED WHEN YOU CALL, THEY'RE FOXY CLEOPATRA
OR SOMETHING.
THAT WAS A GOOD NAME.
LEANNE: THAT WAS FROM,
JUERGEN: WE HAVE A FEW.
I HAVE A FEW.
I LIKE NICKNAMES.
JONATHAN: YEAH.
ME TOO, I HAVE,
HOW MANY NICKNAMES DO I HAVE FOR YOU?
REBECCA: A MILLION, YEAH.
PLAYFULNESS IN A MARRIAGE IS SO IMPORTANT.
JUERGEN: PLAYFULNESS IS EVERYTHING.
LEANNE: NECESSARY.
JUERGEN: I THINK, YOU KNOW, LIKE, PRAY TOGETHER,
STAY TOGETHER.
I THINK PLAY TOGETHER IS AS IMPORTANT AS PRAY TOGETHER.
JONATHAN: TOTALLY.
JUERGEN: YEAH.
BECAUSE AS SOON AS MARRIAGE IS NOT FUN,
IT'S NOT
GOOD ANYMORE.
REBECCA: IT'S HARD ENOUGH.
YOU REALLY
HAVE TO HAVE FUN TOGETHER.
LEANNE: AGREED.
REBECCA: AND YOU NEEDED SOMEONE THAT WAS GOING TO GO ON
THIS WILD ADVENTURE WITH YOU.
THAT WAS THE OTHER THING I WAS THINKING.
SO HOW DID NEW ZEALAND COME ABOUT?
WERE YOU EXPECTING THAT AT ALL?
LEANNE: WELL, I WASN'T EXPECTING IT.
IT WAS A SHOCK FOR ME.
I THOUGHT, WELL, WE, I GOT MARRIED AT 17-AND-A-HALF.
SO I THINK IT WAS FAST-TRACKED
BECAUSE HE WAS CALLED TO NEW ZEALAND.
SO HE'D FINISHED BIBLE COLLEGE, GRADUATED FROM HILLSONG COLLEGE.
AND THEN THEY ASKED HIM, WOULD YOU CONSIDER
BECOMING THE YOUTH PASTOR AT A CHURCH IN SOUTH AUCKLAND?
AND SO HE WENT OVER THERE KIND OF THINKING NO
IN HIS HEAD AND IN HIS SPIRIT.
BUT, YOU KNOW, HE HAD SAID NO IN HIS HEAD, BUT GOD HAD SAID YES.
AND SO,
AND WE
CAME BACK FROM THAT TRIP.
JUERGEN: YEAH.
WE HAD THIS PROPHET WHO WAS FROM AMERICA.
THAT'S RIGHT, MIKE BERRY.
AND HE WAS SO RIDICULOUSLY ACCURATE.
SO I'M IN NEW ZEALAND JUST BECAUSE THEY BOUGHT ME A TICKET.
IT WAS THIS MINISTRY THING AND I, YOU KNOW, AND I'D ALREADY,
YOU KNOW, LITERALLY WRITTEN OUT
MY SPEECH TO SAY THANK YOU, BUT NO THANKS.
GOD BLESS YOU.
YOU KNOW.
AND SO I'VE GOT IT ALL PREPARED.
AND ON THE LAST DAY THERE, MIKE BERRY GOES AND,
WHERE'S JUERGEN?
JUERGEN, WHERE ARE YOU?
AND GET OUT HERE.
AND I COME OUT AND HE SAYS, I SEE YOU LAYING ON THE FLOOR.
AND IT'S A, IT'S A LINOLEUM FLOOR.
SQUARE CHECKS, DIFFERENT COLORS.
AND YOU'RE CRYING OUT TO GOD, SEND ME TO THE NATIONS,
SEND ME TO THE NATIONS.
AND ALL OF A SUDDEN, I REALIZED THERE WAS A MORNING
WHEN I WAS AT HILLSONG BIBLE COLLEGE
WHERE WE HAD, EVERY FRIDAY MORNING
WAS A 6 A.M. PRAYER MEETING
FROM 6 A.M. TO 7:00.
THEN AT 7:00, WE WOULD GO ACROSS THE STREET
TO WHERE THERE WAS A BAKERY, AND THEY WOULD BE, YOU KNOW,
THE FRESHEST CROISSANTS
AND THE FRESHEST APPLE PASTRIES AND TURNOVERS
AND CHOCOLATE MILK.
AND FOR A DOLLAR, YOU COULD GET A PASTRY AND A CHOCOLATE MILK.
BUT I'D FORGOTTEN MY WALLET, AND I DIDN'T WANT TO
BORROW MONEY OFF ANYBODY.
AND THERE WAS SUCH A STRONG PRESENCE OF GOD,
I THOUGHT, I'M JUST GOING TO STAY HERE.
AND I'M LAYING ON THE FLOOR, AND IT'S A LINOLEUM FLOOR,
COLORED TILES.
AND THE SONG THAT WAS LIKE THE SONG BACK THEN
THAT WAS LIKE THE HIT SONG WAS, YOU KNOW, SEND ME TO THE NATIONS
AS AN AMBASSADOR, AS AN AMBASSADOR.
SO THIS PROPHET WHO WASN'T THERE, IT WAS JUST ME
AND GOD, SAID, I SEE YOU LAYING ON THE FLOOR.
IT'S A LINOLEUM FLOOR.
IT'S THESE COLORS.
AND YOU'RE SAYING, SEND ME TO THE NATIONS,
SEND ME TO THE NATIONS.
I'M TRYING TO SEND YOU TO THIS ONE, NEW ZEALAND.
AND YOU DON'T WANT TO GO.
WHAT AM I TO DO WITH YOU?
JONATHAN: WOW.
AND SO I'M LIKE, OH.
LEANNE: AND THAT WAS A PUBLIC PROPHECY, TOO.
JUERGEN: SO IT WAS PUBLIC PROPHECY.
LEANNE: ACCOUNTABILITY WAS AT AN ALL-TIME HIGH.
JUERGEN: YEAH, YEAH.
BECAUSE HE GOT UP AND SAID, WHERE IS JUERGEN?
AND I KNEW HE WAS GOING TO PROPHESY,
AND I WAS ONE OF THE SONG LEADERS.
SO I HID INSIDE THE PULPIT.
THEY HAD ONE OF THOSE BIG WOODEN --
REBECCA: NO, YOU DID NOT.
JUERGEN: YES. HID IN THE PULPIT.
SO HE'S LIKE, WHERE'S JUERGEN?
BECAUSE I KNEW HE WAS GOING TO NAIL ME.
I JUST KNEW THE HOLY GHOST WAS I'M LIKE, I DON'T WANT TO
GO, LA LA LA LA.
I DON'T WANT TO GO TO NEW ZEALAND.
BUT WE LOOK BACK AND, YOU KNOW, THOSE SEVEN --
LEANNE: THOSE SEVEN YEARS WERE THE MAKING OF US, FOR SURE.
REBECCA: CAN YOU TALK ABOUT WHAT IT WAS LIKE?
LEANNE: IT WAS, THEY WERE DIFFICULT YEARS.
LIKE I THINK IF YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, THE LIKE JOSEPH
SPOKE ABOUT THE SEVEN LEAN YEARS AND THE SEVEN FAT YEARS.
THEY WERE OUR SEVEN LEAN YEARS WHERE IT WAS LIKE
THE GYM OF THE SOUL, THE GYM OF THE SPIRIT.
AND SO IT WAS LIKE HEAVILY LADEN WITH PERSECUTION.
JUERGEN: PERSECUTION, LIKE, YOU NAME IT ON EVERY LEVEL;
DYSFUNCTION, PERSECUTION.
LEANNE: EVERYTHING THAT --
JUERGEN: THE CHURCH COULDN'T AFFORD TO PAY US.
LEANNE GOT A JOB WORKING FOR ONE OF THE COUPLES IN THE CHURCH --
LEANNE: AS A NANNY.
JUERGEN: AS A NANNY.
BUT THE $4 AN HOUR, AND EVERY WEEK,
THE WIFE WOULD RIP HER OFF.
SHE WOULD HAVE TO CONFRONT. SHE WOULD ALWAYS,
AND THEN SHE MADE, FOR $4,
SHE MADE LEANNE NOT JUST THE NANNY OF THEIR TWO KIDS,
BUT THE HOUSE CLEANER, THE HOUSEKEEPER.
REBECCA: WHAT?
LEANNE: FOLD LAUNDRY AND COOK A MEAL.
REBECCA: NO.
JUERGEN: YEAH.
REBECCA: FOR $4?
LEANNE: NOW,
THIS WAS 1992, 1993.
SO YEAH.
TO GIVE IT SOME PERSPECTIVE.
JUERGEN: SO WE HAD LIKE NO MONEY, NO FAMILY.
LEANNE: WE DID EXPERIENCE REALLY THE WORST
OF THE CHURCH CULTURE, THE GOSSIP, THE SLANDER,
THE OSTRACIZATION, THE BEING OVERLOOKED, REJECTION.
AND I BELIEVE GOD ALLOWED IT TO STRENGTHEN US AND REFINE US
IN WAYS THAT NO OTHER SEASON COULD DO IT.
REBECCA: IT'S TRUE.
LEANNE: YEAH, YEAH.
SO THOSE FIRST SEVEN YEARS WERE DIFFICULT,
BUT THEY REALLY, THEY MADE US BUFF IN THE SPIRIT.
THEY MADE US STRONG, RESOLUTE.
JUERGEN: I COULD ONLY GO TO GOD.
I COULDN'T GO TO MY PASTOR.
I COULDN'T GO TO MY BOSS.
I COULDN'T GO TO, WE HAD TO GO TO GOD FOR --
LEANNE: NO MUM AND DAD.
SO MY MUM AND DAD WERE IN AUSTRALIA,
SO I WAS AWAY FROM FAMILY,
HAD NO FAMILY SUPPORT.
JUERGEN: SO THE MIRACLES WE SAW
WERE LIKE, AND THOSE MIRACLES
ARE STILL IN OUR SPIRIT TODAY.
SO WE STARTED OUR CHURCH IN 2005, AND THEY TOLD US,
HEY, JUST SO YOU KNOW, THERE'S NO ZONING FOR CHURCHES
IN SAN DIEGO.
SO EVERY CHURCH THAT EXISTS HAD TO GO TO THE CITY
AND CONVINCE THE CITY WHY IT NEEDED TO GIVE UP
ITS TAX REVENUE IN ORDER FOR YOU TO HAVE
A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, BECAUSE CHURCHES ARE TAX-EXEMPT.
AND THEN THEY SAID TO ME, PLUS, SAN DIEGO AT THAT TIME
IS THE FIFTH MOST EXPENSIVE COMMERCIAL REAL ESTATE
IN AMERICA.
AND IT SHOULD, THERE BE A BUILDING COME UP THAT IS,
HAS A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT TO OPERATE AS A CHURCH,
GET IN LINE.
THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF CHURCHES AHEAD OF YOU,
SO JUST GIVE UP OWNING A BUILDING.
SO I'M LIKE, YEAH, WELL, YOU CAN BLOW IT OUT YOUR SHORTS.
I'M NOT GOING TO GIVE UP OWNING A BUILDING.
GOD DIDN'T CALL US HERE TO JUST KIND OF EKE AND STRUGGLE.
SO THAT WAS 2005.
SO THIS IS OBVIOUSLY 2025, SO 20 YEARS LATER,
WE HAVE 17 PROPERTIES THAT WE OWN AROUND SAN DIEGO
FOR THE CHURCH.
AND SO YEAH, AND IT WAS EVERYTHING THAT WE LEARNED
IN NEW ZEALAND WHERE WE HAD NO MONEY, WE HAD NO INCOME,
BUT WE BOUGHT A MIRACLE HOUSE, AND THEN WE FLIPPED THAT,
DOUBLED OUR MONEY, AND THEN BOUGHT LAND AND BUILT A HOUSE.
AND WE WENT FROM THE LOWEST-PAID STAFF MEMBER
TO THE STAFF MEMBERS THAT HAD THE NICEST HOME OUT OF ANYBODY
IN, YOU KNOW, ON THE TEAM.
REBECCA: IS THAT IN NEW ZEALAND THAT HAPPENED?
JUERGEN: THAT WAS IN NEW ZEALAND. YEAH.
REBECCA: I'M SORRY.
WHAT WERE YOU SAYING?
LEANNE: WELL, GOD REALLY SHOWED US ON THE FRONT END
WHAT IT WAS TO LIVE BY FAITH.
AND IT'S PUT US IN SUCH GOOD STEAD FOR BEING
CHURCH BUILDERS HERE IN AMERICA.
LIKE, WE JUST FACE SO MANY GOLIATHS AND FOUGHT
SO MANY GIANTS THEN THAT WHEN WE CAME TO AMERICA,
THEY WERE BIGGER AND MORE INTIMIDATING.
BUT WE KNEW HOW TO BATTLE.
REBECCA: YOU HAD SOME BATTLES UNDER YOUR --
LEANNE: YEAH, WE REALLY DID.
AND I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS WHEN I LOOK AROUND TODAY,
I KIND OF SEE A LOT OF CHRISTIANITY
AND JUST PEOPLE IN GENERAL LIVING WITHOUT FAITH
OR WANTING AN EASY GO OF IT AND GETTING
DISCOMBOBULATED WHEN THINGS ARE HARD,
AND IT'S LIKE, OH MY GOSH,
BUT THIS IS WHERE THE MUSCLE'S BUILT.
THIS IS WHERE YOU GET THAT RESILIENCE,
AND THIS IS WHERE GOD SHOWS UP AND CAN DO WHAT MAN CAN NEVER DO
FOR YOU.
AND IT'S THE MOST INVIGORATING PLACE TO LIVE.
IT'S DIFFICULT, BUT THERE'S NOTHING LIKE IT.
REBECCA: YEAH.
THAT'S ACTUALLY SUCH A GOOD WORD
BECAUSE I THINK IN AMERICA, WE WANT TO BE COMFORTABLE.
AND VICTIMIZATION AND VICTIM MINDSET,
AND WE'RE TEACHING PEOPLE TO LEAVE EVERYTHING
THAT'S DIFFICULT AND SEEMINGLY DIFFICULT AND JUST BAIL.
AND WITH GOD, IT'S LIKE, THE MOMENT YOU SAID YES TO GOD,
YOU SAID YES TO SUFFERING AND HARDSHIP
FOR HIS SAKE, FOR HIS GLORY, AND FOR THE KINGDOM.
REBECCA: WHAT KEPT YOU GUYS GOING IN NEW ZEALAND
THROUGH THE HURT AND THE TRIALS?
WHAT MADE YOU NOT GIVE UP?
BECAUSE, I MEAN, A LOT OF PEOPLE GET DISCOURAGED
AND BE LIKE, I'M GOING BACK HOME
TO MY PARENTS.
LEANNE: DEFINITELY.
THAT WAS A TEMPTATION, AT LEAST FOR ME.
AND THERE WERE TIMES WHEN I WOULD SAY TO HIM, LIKE,
I DON'T WANT TO BE HERE ANYMORE.
I DON'T WANT TO DO THIS.
LIKE, THIS IS UNFAIR.
THIS IS --
REBECCA: YOU'RE HAVING YOUR BABIES OUT THERE.
LEANNE: I'M HAVING, I HAD TWO BABIES THERE.
AGAIN,
MOM AND DAD WERE ON THE, YOU KNOW, ACROSS AN OCEAN AWAY.
YEAH, BUT IT WAS REALLY BEAUTIFUL.
AND IT WAS REALLY WHERE HE SHOWED HIS LEADERSHIP
AS THE MAN OF THE HOUSE.
LIKE HE WAS WONDERFULLY COMPASSIONATE
AND UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT WE WERE GOING THROUGH.
LIKE HE NEVER DISMISSED MY FEELINGS OR TRIED TO
MAKE LIGHT OF THEM, LIKE HE WAS EXPERIENCING IT, TOO.
BUT HE WOULD SAY, LEANNE, UNLESS GOD CALLS US ON,
WE'RE NOT GOING LIKE WE'RE GONNA UNTIL GOD SAYS,
IT'S OKAY, I'M GIVING YOU THE GREEN LIGHT.
OFF YOU GO.
WE'RE NOT GOING TO GO.
THIS IS WHERE GOD HAS CALLED US,
AND THIS IS WHERE WE'RE GOING TO STAY UNTIL THE LORD LEADS US ON.
JUERGEN: YEAH, BECAUSE I KNEW THAT GOD HAD CALLED US THERE,
BUT I HADN'T HEARD FROM HIM.
AND I KNEW THAT THIS WAS A TEST, YOU KNOW.
AND I KNEW THAT THESE WERE TESTING YEARS.
AND AGAIN, BECAUSE I DIDN'T GROW UP IN CHURCH,
ALL I KNEW WAS I HEARD GOD SAY, GO.
BUT HE HADN'T SAID LEAVE.
AND, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A REAL INTERESTING THING
BECAUSE I COULD NOT CONFRONT, BECAUSE I HAD SO MUCH
FATHER REJECTION, SO MUCH BROKENNESS.
AND MY BOSS, MY SENIOR PASTOR, REALLY TOOK ADVANTAGE.
HE WAS A BIT OF A BULLY.
AND SO I REMEMBER WHEN WE,
SHE WAS PREGNANT WITH OUR FIRSTBORN SON, JORDAN.
AND JORDAN WAS BORN ON THURSDAY THE 13TH OF JULY, 1994.
BUT WE'D RENTED A HOME.
WE HAD NO MONEY.
THERE WAS A FAMILY IN OUR CHURCH.
THEY'D GOTTEN A WORK ASSIGNMENT TO MOVE TO ANOTHER CITY.
AND SO THEY SAID, LISTEN, YOU KNOW, WE KNOW
YOUR WIFE'S PREGNANT, THREE YEARS TO SEVEN YEARS.
WE'RE NOT SURE EXACTLY HOW LONG,
IT COULD BE AS SHORT AS THREE YEARS.
AS LONG AS SEVEN YEARS.
YOU MOVE INTO OUR HOME.
IT WAS A NICE HOME IN A NICE AREA.
I'M LIKE, OH, MY GOD, THIS IS AN ANSWER TO PRAYER.
HOW GOOD IS GOD?
SO WE MOVE INTO THAT HOME AND WE GET A LETTER
SAYING, HEY, WE SOLD THE HOUSE.
WAIT, WHAT, YOU'VE GOT...?
YEAH, SIX WEEKS TO GET OUT, AND THE SIX WEEKS
LITERALLY WAS FRIDAY, THE 14TH OF JULY.
REBECCA: NO.
JUERGEN: A DAY AFTER OUR SON WAS TO BE BORN.
REBECCA: NOW, THAT'S
A WOMAN'S NIGHTMARE
THAT'S CARRYING A BABY.
LEANNE: IT WAS A NIGHTMARE.
JUERGEN: OH MY GOSH.
LEANNE: SO STRESSFUL.
REBECCA: THAT WOULD STRESS ME OUT.
YES.
JUERGEN: SO THE STRESS AND THE PRESSURE.
AND BECAUSE WE DIDN'T KNOW WHEN JORDAN WAS GOING TO COME,
REBECCA: NO, YOU DON'T KNOW.
JUERGEN: WE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WAS GOING TO BE BORN.
SO HE WAS LITERALLY BORN ON THE THURSDAY.
AND THEN FRIDAY, I'D ALREADY ARRANGED SOME OF THE STRONGER,
YOU KNOW, MAORI, POLYNESIAN BOYS
IN THE YOUTH GROUP TO COME AND HELP ME MOVE HOUSE.
YOU KNOW, THE FRIDGE, THE WASHER, THE DRYER, YOU KNOW,
FURNITURE, LOUNGE, AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF.
AND ANYWAY, I CALL MY BOSS ON THE FRIDAY MORNING
AFTER SPENDING THE WHOLE DAY,
BECAUSE SHE HAD QUITE A LONG LABOR.
IT'S 20-SOMETHING HOURS OF LABOR.
YEAH.
AND I WAS IN THE HOSPITAL WITH HER, OBVIOUSLY,
FOR THE BIRTH OF MY SON.
SO I CALLED MY BOSS SAYING, HEY, JUST REMINDER,
YOU KNOW, I PUT IT ON THE WALL.
TODAY'S A DAY OFF TO MOVE HOUSE.
HE GOES, HANG ON, HANG ON.
DIDN'T YOU TAKE YESTERDAY OFF?
I SAID, WELL, I WAS IN THE HOSPITAL
FOR THE BIRTH OF MY SON.
YEAH, THAT'S YOUR DAY OFF.
YOU'RE IN THE OFFICE TODAY, SO I HAD TO GO
AND WORK FROM 9 TO 5.
SO I CALL THE GUY WHO THE, YOU KNOW, THE LOCAL GO HIRE PLACE
WHERE I HAD THE TRAILER THAT I COULD
LOAD UP ALL THE FURNITURE TO MOVE, AND THEY CLOSE IT.
IT'S, JULY'S WINTER DOWN UNDER.
IT'S LIKE, MATE, MATE, WE CLOSE AT 4:30.
AND I SAID, WELL, I CAN'T GET THERE TIL AFTER 5:00.
AND HE GOES, WELL, BAD LUCK.
I SAID, NO, I SAID, PLEASE.
I SAID, YOU KNOW, MY BOSS MADE ME.
AND HE GOES, MATE, YOUR BOSS IS A BLANKETY BLANK.
AND HE GOES, I CAN'T BELIEVE ANYBODY WOULD
TREAT SOMEONE LIKE THAT.
HE GOES, I'LL BE HERE TIL 5:15.
CAN YOU BE HERE?
I SAID, OH, SO I RACED OVER, GOT THE TRAILER,
HAD TO MOVE IN THE DARK BY MYSELF.
SHE'S IN THE HOSPITAL WITH A BRAND NEW BABY.
SHE COMES OUT ON THE SATURDAY, AND BECAUSE SHE WANTS TO BE,
SHE'S GOT NO FAMILY.
SHE'S IN THE HOSPITAL.
IT'S STRANGE.
SHE WANTS TO BE WITH ME.
SO SHE COMES HOME.
SO WE GO TO CHURCH SUNDAY MORNING
AND SHE'S HOLDING HER LITTLE BABY.
SHE CAN BARELY WALK.
SHE'S STILL SWOLLEN.
YOU KNOW WHAT?
WE DIDN'T KNOW AT THE TIME, BUT SHE'S SICK,
BECAUSE THEY'VE LEFT SOME OF THE AFTERBIRTH INSIDE OF HER.
SO SHE ENDS UP ALMOST BEING SEPTICEMIC AND DYING.
YOU KNOW, SHE'S GOT STITCHES, SHE CAN BARELY WALK.
AND SHE'S HOLDING HER LITTLE BABY IN CHURCH.
LIKE SHE'S MADE THE COMMITMENT IN THAT PAIN TO GET TO CHURCH.
AND THE SENIOR PASTOR'S WIFE, WHO WAS SO BROKEN,
COMES OVER, GRABS HER ARM, AND SAYS, STOP SHOWING
SUCH AFFECTION TO YOUR BABY.
THERE ARE WOMEN HERE WHO'VE HAD MISCARRIAGES.
REBECCA: OH, MY GOSH.
LEANNE: YEAH, I KNOW IT.
LIKE, IT'S HARD TO BELIEVE WHEN WE RETELL IT.
JUERGEN: I'M TRYING TO TELL YOU, LIKE WE WERE,
IT WAS LITERALLY THE LION'S DEN THAT WE WERE IN.
IT WAS,
WE SAW THE BROKENNESS.
REBECCA: THAT WAS THE REAL SNAKE PIT, RIGHT?
JUERGEN: SHE GOT SAVED IN A SNAKE PIT
AND THEN DISCIPLED IN ONE.
LITERALLY.
IT WAS LIKE ALMOST PROPHETIC.
YOU GOT SAVED IN A SNAKE PIT.
NOW I'M GOING TO SHOW YOU THE, YOU KNOW,
BECAUSE WE HAD TO HAVE AUTHORITY OVER THE SERPENTS.
REBECCA: WHAT DID YOU DO WITH THAT?
LEANNE: I THINK I WAS SO YOUNG, I WAS NOT QUITE,
I WAS 19 WHEN I HAD JORDAN.
THAT'S RIGHT.
SO I WAS SO YOUNG.
I DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO PROCESS IT BECAUSE I GREW UP
IN A CHRISTIAN HOME.
MY MUM AND DAD WERE BEAUTIFUL
CHRISTIAN PEOPLE.
SO I'D NEVER SEEN THIS SIDE OF THE CHURCH,
NOR DID I EXPECT TO SEE IT IN MINISTRY AND IN MINISTERS.
AND I THINK THAT WAS DISHEARTENING AND DISCOURAGING.
AND I WOULD, I'D, IN ALL HONESTY, I WAS PROBABLY
A LITTLE DISILLUSIONED FOR A WHILE, ACTUALLY.
THERE'S A GREAT STORY OF ME GETTING RE-SAVED
AT HIS ORDINATION.
JUERGEN: OH, THAT'S
SO FUNNY.
THERE YOU GO.
LEANNE: WE'RE IN NEW ZEALAND AGAIN, AND I'D BEEN
THROUGH ALL THE STORIES THAT HE TOLD, AND SOME WORSE.
AND I REMEMBER SAYING TO MYSELF, GOD, LIKE,
I ALWAYS WANT TO BE JUERGEN'S WIFE,
BUT I'M NOT INTERESTED IN MINISTRY.
MINISTRY IS HIS THING AND NOT MINE.
LIKE, I'M CHECKING OUT.
MINISTERS ARE MEAN.
THEY'RE HYPOCRITES.
THIS IS JUST GROSS.
AND HE WAS ABOUT TO BE ORDAINED
INTO THE ASSEMBLIES OF GOD MOVEMENT IN NEW ZEALAND.
JUERGEN: YOU KNOW, WHERE YOU GET YOUR CREDENTIAL.
LEANNE: THEY MAKE A CEREMONY.
SO HE
PASSED A PROBATION, WHICH IN ITSELF IS A MIRACLE.
AND SO THERE, SO WE'RE THERE FOR THE ORDINATION CEREMONY.
AND I GOT A BEAUTIFUL WHITE SUIT
AS WE'RE ABOUT TO CELEBRATE HIS ORDINATION.
BUT VERY ESTRANGED FROM GOD IN THE CHURCH, IN MY HEART.
AND THEY GO THROUGH THE CEREMONY, JUERGEN GETS UP
ON STAGE, AND THEY PRESENT HIM WITH A PLAQUE.
YOU'RE OFFICIALLY A MINISTER IN THE ASSEMBLIES OF GOD
OF NEW ZEALAND.
JUERGEN: AND I HAD A KNEE BRACE
BECAUSE I TORE MY ACL SURFING.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, I COULDN'T MOVE THAT QUICK.
AND THEY HAD THIS GUEST SPEAKER
FROM THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
WHO WAS DOING THE, YOU KNOW,
THE COMMENCEMENT KEYNOTE AFTER THE ORDINATION.
YES.
AND HE PREACHES THIS MESSAGE ABOUT THESE THREE CHAIRS.
AND, YOU KNOW, THE ABRAHAM, ISAAC, AND JACOB.
AND, YOU KNOW, GOD IS NOT A GRANDFATHER, HE'S JUST A FATHER.
AND SO THERE'S THIS THING THAT HAPPENS,
THE FIRST GENERATION'S ON FIRE.
NEXT GENERATION GROWS UP WITH ALL THE BENEFITS.
BUT THEN KIND OF THE THIRD GENERATION SLIPS AWAY.
WHAT'S THE ANSWER?
TAKE AWAY THE THIRD CHAIR.
EVERYONE'S GOT TO HAVE A FIRST ENCOUNTER WITH GOD.
AND HE SAYS, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE PEOPLE HERE,
AND YOU NEED TO HAVE A FIRST ENCOUNTER WITH GOD.
AND SO BECAUSE I'M UP IN THE FRONT BECAUSE OF MY KNEE
IN A BRACE, SHE'S UP THE FRONT, AS WELL.
SO THIS PREACHER GIVES AN APPEAL.
SO LEANNE'S IN THIS STUNNING WHITE SUIT.
AND SO --
LEANNE: BUT HE DIDN'T KNOW I WAS FAR FROM GOD, LIKE
HE'S, HIS MINISTER HAD NO IDEA.
JUERGEN: IT WAS JUST LIKE HAVE A FIRST, YOU KNOW,
FIRST ENCOUNTER WITH GOD AGAIN.
LEANNE: BUT I COULD FEEL HIM SPEAKING TO ME DIRECTLY
LIKE HE'S READING MY MAIL.
I, YOU KNOW, AND HE REALLY DID SPEAK INTO, THERE'S PEOPLE HERE,
AND YOU'RE DISILLUSIONED.
YOU'VE HAD A TOUGH TIME.
YOU KNOW, YOU WERE ONCE WALKING WITH GOD, NOW YOU'RE NOT.
AND I COULD JUST FEEL MY HEART BEING PULLED.
AND THEN HE DOES THIS APPEAL, COME FORWARD, AND,
YOU KNOW, LIKE RESURRENDER
YOUR LIFE TO THE LORD.
JUERGEN: BUT YOU GOT TO TELL YOU, IT WAS SO FUNNY.
SO BECAUSE LEANNE'S UP IN THE FRONT, SHE'S THE FIRST ONE OUT.
AND SO EVERYBODY KNOWS WE'RE SITTING TOGETHER.
YOU KNOW, I JUST, YOU KNOW, I WAS A LITTLE BIT OF
A LARGER-THAN-LIFE PERSONALITY.
SO THEY KNEW SHE WAS MY WIFE, AND I WAS JUST GETTING ORDAINED
IN THE ASSEMBLIES OF GOD, GETTING MY CREDENTIALS
AS A MINISTER, RIGHT?
LEANNE: AND THEN THE WIFE GETS SAVED.
JUERGEN: AND THEN LEANNE, OBVIOUSLY, IS ON THE FRONT ROW
IN A WHITE SUIT.
NO ONE ELSE IS WEARING A WHITE SUIT,
SO IT'S OBVIOUS THERE'S LEANNE, WHITE SUIT.
THERE'S HER HUSBAND JUST ORDAINED.
HOW COOL IS THIS?
SO SHE GOES FORWARD.
BUT THIS PREACHER JUST GETS SO EXCITED
AND HE GOES, I LOVE SEEING LOST PEOPLE COME TO CHRIST.
LITTLE LAMBS COMING HOME, TO COME HOME TO JESUS, SWEETHEART.
AND SO SHE BURST INTO TEARS BECAUSE SHE'S EMBARRASSED,
GOING, NO, I WANT TO RESPOND TO GOD, I YOU.
THIS IS A BAIT-AND-SWITCH.
YOU DIDN'T SAY IT WAS PURELY FOR SALVATION.
YOU SAID IT WAS,
AND SO HE'S MAKING THIS BIG,
IF THERE'S ANYONE ELSE HERE IS LOST,
IF YOU'RE A DIRTY SINNER LIKE --
NO, HE
DIDN'T SAY THAT.
LEANNE: BUT NO, IT WAS A PROFOUND MOMENT BECAUSE,
YOU KNOW, AGAIN,
JUERGEN: BECAUSE, AGAIN, SHE COULD HAVE TURNED AROUND,
BUT SHE HUMBLED HERSELF TO SAY, EVEN THOUGH I FEEL HUMILIATED,
I NEED THIS ENCOUNTER.
REBECCA: I'M PROUD OF YOU.
LEANNE: THANK YOU.
JONATHAN: STUCK WITH IT.
LEANNE: YEAH. BUT IT DID SOMETHING IN ME.
REGARDLESS, WHEN YOU RESPOND TO THE ALTAR, GOD,
GOD DOES SOMETHING.
HE TRANSFORMS YOU.
AND I REALLY DID NEED TO HAVE THAT MOMENT WHERE
I CAME BACK TO MY FIRST LOVE AND GOT RID OF
ALL THE UNFORGIVENESS I HAD.
AND YOU KNOW, THE BITTERNESS I CARRIED OVER
THE THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN DONE AND JUST GO,
I'M DOING THIS ALL FOR YOU, LORD.
I'M DOING THIS FOR YOU.
AND YOU KNOW, I REPENT.
AND IT REALLY CHANGED EVERYTHING FOR ME.
REBECCA: WHERE WERE,
HOW FAR INTO NEW ZEALAND WAS THAT?
LEANNE: WAS IT ABOUT,
BECAUSE WE WERE THERE FOR JUST SHY OF SEVEN YEARS.
I BELIEVE IT WAS ABOUT YEAR FIVE.
YEAH.
AND WE HAD ABOUT ANOTHER YEAR-AND-A-HALF LEFT AND,
BUT I FELT DIFFERENT, I FELT FREE, YEAH.
THE ENVIRONMENT HADN'T CHANGED, BUT I HAD CHANGED.
IT DIDN'T AFFECT ME LIKE IT HAD PREVIOUSLY.
I FELT A RESILIENCE THAT I DIDN'T FEEL BEFORE.
REBECCA: WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT WAS?
LEANNE: I THINK IT WAS THAT SURRENDER.
LIKE, YEAH, THIS IS NOT ABOUT HOW PEOPLE BEHAVE.
IT'S ABOUT THE FACT THAT YOU'VE CALLED ME, GOD.
AND UNTIL YOU UNCALL ME, AND THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN,
THEN I'M GOING TO CONTINUE IN THIS.
AND I ALSO MADE A DECISION.
I'M NOT GOING TO LET OTHER PEOPLE STEAL MY JOY.
I WAS BORN SMILING.
AND I WAS JUST DETERMINED THAT
I'M NOT GOING TO LET THE UGLINESS OF PEOPLE
THAT CALL THEMSELVES CHRISTIANS AND NOT BEHAVE LIKE THEM
TAKE MY SMILE AWAY.
I'M A JOYFUL PERSON.
I'M A HAPPY PERSON.
I LOVE THE LORD AND I LOVE PEOPLE.
AND I'M NOT GOING TO LET ANYBODY ELSE SPOIL THAT FOR ME.
JUERGEN: AND LEANNE HAS FOUR SISTERS, LIKE SHE SAID.
SO SHE'S ONE OF FIVE.
AND WE WERE RECENTLY IN AUSTRALIA WITH HER MUM AND DAD,
AND THEY TOOK US TO THE HOSPITAL
SHE WAS BORN IN.
AND OUT OF THE FIVE GIRLS, THE ONLY BIRTH
THAT HER DAD WAS PRESENT AT WAS LEANNE, NUMBER FOUR.
THAT WAS THE ONLY ONE THAT HE WAS PRESENT AT,
AND WAS ALMOST LIKE GOD GAVE HIM A PRESENT TO BE PRESENT
AT HER BIRTH, BECAUSE SHE WOULD BE THE ONE THAT
WOULDN'T BE LIVING IN AUSTRALIA.
ALL THE OTHER FOUR SISTERS ALL LIVE VERY CLOSE.
SHE WOULD BE THE ONE.
SO IT WAS ALMOST LIKE A GIFT.
BUT I REMEMBER WHEN I WAS FIRST COURTING HER
THAT HER DADDY TOLD ME THAT LEANNE WAS BORN SMILING.
SO NOW FAST FORWARD.
THIS IS NOW OUR FIFTH YEAR.
I'VE JUST GOTTEN ORDAINED, BUT WE ARE FIGHTING ALL THE TIME.
SO EVEN THOUGH I LOVE HER, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO HUSBAND HER.
AND I'VE GOT A VERY, VERY BROKEN MODEL IN MY SENIOR PASTOR
AND HIS WIFE.
AND SO I'M FUMBLING MY WAY FORWARD, BUT MAKING MORE FUMBLES
THAN FORWARD PROGRESS.
SO WE WERE FIGHTING LIKE YOU WOULDN'T BELIEVE.
AND SO WE HAVE THIS ARGUMENT.
SHE'S LIKE, YOU KNOW WHAT?
I'M DONE, I'M DONE.
I WANT A DIVORCE.
YOU KNOW, I'M DONE.
THIS IS NOT WHAT I SIGNED UP FOR.
AND SO I'M JUST LIKE, YOU KNOW, SLINGING IT BACK ON HER.
AND I KNEW I NEEDED TO GET OUT.
SO I SAID, I'M GOING TO GO FOR A PRAYER WALK.
AND, YOU KNOW, DON'T BE SURPRISED IF YOU BREAK OUT
IN BOILS.
JUDGMENT OF GOD, YOU KNOW, LIKE SOMETHING REALLY STUPID.
SO I GO ON THIS PRAYER WALK AND GOD DEALS WITH ME.
HE DEALS WITH ME, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE LIKE,
I'M TALKING TO GOD AND LAMENTING ABOUT MY WOES.
AND THEN HE INTERRUPTS ME AND HE SAYS, JUERGEN,
YOUR WIFE IS A PRODUCT OF YOUR HUSBANDRY.
I'M LIKE, HANG ON, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT, HANG ON.
WAIT, WHAT?
LIKE WHAT?
HE'S LIKE, YEAH, SHE'S A PRODUCT OF YOUR FAILED HUSBANDRY.
YOU'RE THE LEADER, AND YOU'RE NOT LEADING HER.
AND THEN HE TAKES ME ON THIS BEAUTIFUL JOURNEY.
ANYWAY, I COME BACK TO THE HOUSE
AND I'M LOOKING THROUGH THE WINDOW.
AND ASH IS JUST A LITTLE BABY, AND LEANNE IS, YOU KNOW,
WASHING THE BABY BOTTLES, STERILIZING THEM,
GETTING THEM READY FOR, YOU KNOW, THE DIFFERENT FEEDS
THROUGH THE NIGHT AND CLEANING UP THE KITCHEN.
AND I LOOK THROUGH THE WINDOW AND, YOU KNOW,
WHEN IT'S DARK OUTSIDE, BUT IT'S LIGHT INSIDE.
SHE CAN'T SEE ME BECAUSE IT'S DARK.
SO THE GLASS IS LIKE A MIRROR.
BUT I CAN SEE IN AND I'M LOOKING AND, YOU KNOW,
HER HAIR IS A LITTLE BIT DISHEVELED
AND THE SPARK HAS GONE FROM HER EYES.
AND THEN I HEAR HER FATHER'S VOICE SAY, SHE WAS BORN SMILING.
I HEAR IT LIKE,
LIKE I'M TALKING TO YOU RIGHT NOW.
I HEAR IT GO THROUGH MY HEAD.
SHE WAS BORN SMILING. AND THE HOLY SPIRIT SAID,
JUERGEN, WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?
REBECCA: WOW.
JUERGEN: AND I'M LIKE, THE FATHER JUST BEAT UP ON ME.
AND NOW HOLY GHOST, YOU'RE JOINING HIM.
HE'S LIKE, YEAH, WE'RE A TRINITY.
AND THEN I REALIZED, WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?
AND SHE WAS BORN SMILING.
SHE AIN'T SMILING NOW.
JACK.
JACK WAGON.
EXCUSE ME.
JACK WAGON.
SHE AIN'T SMILING NOW.
AND I'M LIKE, OH MY GOD.
LIKE.
AND SO I WENT IN AND, YOU KNOW, I HAD TO REPENT.
AND GOD GAVE ME THIS BEAUTIFUL.
I SAID, GOD, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO HUSBAND HER, I DON'T KNOW.
HE SAYS, WELL, WHAT WAS ADAM'S FIRST LESSON?
I'M LIKE, I DON'T KNOW, LIKE ALGEBRA, ARITHMETIC.
YOU TELL ME.
HE GOES, WELL, HOW DID EVE COME ABOUT?
I SAID, WELL, YOU SAID IT WASN'T GOOD FOR MAN TO BE ALONE.
SO YOU SAID, I'LL MAKE A HELPER, AND THEN YOU PUT HIM
ASLEEP UNDER A TREE. AND GOD SAYS, WRONG.
I SAID, IT'S NOT WRONG, GOD.
IT'S THE SEQUENCE OF EVENTS.
I SAID, IF THERE'S ONE BOOK I'VE READ EVERY YEAR,
IT'S GENESIS, YOU KNOW, EVERY JANUARY.
HOW I PROMISE YOU I'M GOING TO READ THE BIBLE
FROM COVER TO COVER.
BUT BY MARCH, THE LEVITICAL LAWS KILL ME EVERY YEAR.
THOU SHALT NOT WITH A CLOVEN HOOF.
WHO DOES THIS?
PEOPLE.
SICK PEOPLE.
YOU KNOW, THOU SHALT NOT COOK A YOUNG GOAT IN ITS MOTHER'S MILK.
STOP THAT.
THAT'S YOU, STOP DOING THAT.
AND ANYWAY, I'M LIKE, BUT IF THERE'S ONE BOOK I'VE READ
EVERY YEAR, IT'S GENESIS, AND IT SAYS,
NOT GOOD FOR MAN TO BE ALONE.
I MAKE A HELPER.
YOU PUT HIM TO SLEEP, YOU PULL OUT A RIB. GOD SAYS, WRONG.
I'M LIKE, OH MY, I'LL SHOW YOU.
I OPEN IT UP.
I'M LIKE, HANG ON A MINUTE.
YOU'RE, YOU JUST SNUCK THAT IN THERE.
GOD'S LIKE, IT WAS ALWAYS IN THERE.
SO GOD SAID, IT'S NOT GOOD FOR MAN TO BE ALONE.
I WILL MAKE A HELPER SUITABLE.
THE NEXT VERSE IS NOT THAT GOD PUT HIM ASLEEP UNDER A TREE
AND PULLED OUT THE RIB.
THE NEXT VERSE IS,
SO GOD BROUGHT ALL THE ANIMALS TO ADAM
TO SEE WHAT ADAM WOULD NAME THEM, OR IN THE HEBREW,
CALL THEM.
AND WHATEVER ADAM CALLED THEM, THAT'S WHAT THEY BECAME.
THEN GOD PUTS HIM ASLEEP UNDER A TREE, PULLS OUT THE RIB,
AND GOD SAID, BEFORE I GAVE HIM
THE PRIVILEGE OF A SPOUSE,
I HAD TO TEACH HIM THE POWER OF HIS MOUTH.
AND HE SAID, JUERGEN,
I'VE WATCHED YOU CALL HER ALL KINDS OF DEROGATORY NAMES.
YOU CALL HER INSUBORDINATE, YOU CALL HER REBELLIOUS,
YOU CALL HER ALL THESE THINGS, HE SAYS.
WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU CALLED HER BEAUTIFUL?
WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU CALLED HER PRINCESS?
WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME?
AND SO I'M TRYING TO MAKE EXCUSES.
I'M LIKE, WELL, WHEN SHE STARTS BEHAVING, HE GOES,
THAT'S NOT HOW THIS WORKS.
HE GOES, ADAM PROPHESIED, FLESH OF MY FLESH.
SHE SHALL BE CALLED WOMAN.
I SAID, AND THEN EVE, HE CALLS HER.
WHEN THE SUN WAS SETTING AND IT WAS THE EVE OF THE DAY,
HE SAYS, AND YOU SHALL BE CALLED EVE.
HE WAS PLAYING ON THE ROMANCE OF THE MOMENT.
THIS IS PRE-FLOOD.
THEY RECKON THERE WAS PROBABLY 500 TO 1,000 MORE COLORS
THAN WE HAVE TODAY, BECAUSE OF THE CANOPY
THAT WAS OVER THE EARTH THAT IS NOW GONE.
SO THE SUNSETS WOULD HAVE BEEN SPECTACULAR IN EDEN.
AND THE BIBLE SAYS, AS THE SUN WAS SETTING,
ADAM NAMED HIS WIFE EVE LIKE, HE'S LIKE, BABY,
YOU ARE THE CROWN OF THE BEAUTY OF CREATION.
BUT IT'S A PLAY ON WORDS BECAUSE HE'S PROPHETIC,
BECAUSE EVE MEANS LIFEBRINGER.
SHE HASN'T BROUGHT FORTH ANY LIFE.
HOW DOES HE KNOW?
HOW DOES HE EVEN KNOW THAT SHE'S GOT A WOMB?
HOW DOES HE EVEN KNOW THAT SHE'S GOING TO TAKE HIS SEAT
AND PRODUCE?
BUT HE'S PROPHESYING AND HE SAYS, JUERGEN, HE SAID,
YOU ARE PROPHESYING ALL KINDS OF.
SO I CAME HOME AND I REPENTED AND I SAID,
LEANNE, I JUST WANT YOU TO KNOW, LIKE, GOD JUST FREAKING,
THE WORD CAME AND HAMMERED ME LIKE, FIRST THE FATHER,
THEN THE HOLY GHOST.
WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?
THEN THE WORD.
AND I SAID, I WANT YOU TO KNOW I'M GOING TO CHANGE.
AND TO HER CREDIT, SHE DIDN'T BELIEVE ME.
I LOVE THAT SHE DIDN'T BELIEVE ME
BECAUSE I NOW HAD TO COULDN'T BE
JUST LIKE I REPENT AND THEN I GO BACK IN THREE DAYS
TO MY NORMAL BEHAVIOR.
IT TOOK ME 20 MONTHS TO CONVINCE HER,
THAT I HAD LEARNED A LESSON FROM GOD AND THAT I WAS GOING TO
CALL HER BEAUTIFUL.
I WAS GOING TO CALL HER BRIGHT.
I WAS GOING TO CALL HER BRILLIANT.
I WAS GOING TO CALL HER STUNNING.
I WAS GOING TO CALL HER WISE.
I KEEP SAYING TO HER, YOU'RE LIKE A LITTLE MINIATURE BUDDHA
COVERED IN BLING.
YOU'RE SO WISE.
WHICH IS --
LEANNE: THAT'S A LINE FROM A MOVIE.
JUERGEN: YEAH. SORRY.
LEANNE: HE'S GOING TO ADD THOSE IN.
JUERGEN: ANCHORMAN . YEAH.
BUT SHE IS, AND SHE HAS EXCEEDED
EVERYTHING THAT I'VE SAID.
LIKE AND I'LL TELL YOU THE THERAPY IN THAT IS
WHEN I SAY, WHEN I INTENTIONALLY SAY, BABY, YOU ARE SO BEAUTIFUL.
IT'S LIKE, OH MY GOD.
LIKE SHE REALLY IS LIKE, BABE, YOU'RE SO FAR OUT OF MY LEAGUE.
I'M LIKE, OH MY GOD.
SHE'S LIKE, IT'S GOOD FOR A MAN.
I THINK GOD ORDAINED IT THAT WAY, THAT WHILE
IT'S IMPORTANT FOR ME TO REMIND HER HOW BEAUTIFUL,
HOW WONDERFUL, HOW INCREDIBLE SHE IS,
THAT EVERY WOMAN NEEDS THOSE WORDS OF AFFIRMATION.
THE MAN, HE NEEDS TO DO IT, HE NEEDS TO SAY, IT'S GOOD
FOR ME TO HEAR.
BECAUSE FAITH COMETH BY HEARING, HEARING BY THE WORD OF GOD.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, IN, I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE WAYS
THAT WE'VE KEPT OUR MARRIAGE NOT JUST FANTASTIC,
BUT KEPT OUR LOVE ALIVE, LIKE WE'RE NOT
TOGETHER FOR THE KIDS OR, WELL, YOU KNOW, WE'RE IN MINISTRY.
WE CAN'T REALLY GET A DIVORCE BECAUSE WE'LL LOSE OUR MINISTRY.
SO I GUESS, LIKE, WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
LIKE, IF I LOST MINISTRY, IF I LOST EVERYTHING BUT KEPT HER,
I TELL EVERYBODY, WHEN I GET TO HEAVEN,
YOU'RE GOING TO CONTINUALLY SEE ME IN TIME-OUT.
IF THE THEOLOGIANS THAT SAY THERE'S NO MARRIAGE IN HEAVEN,
THEREFORE, YOU'VE GOT TO SLEEP IN SEPARATE,
I'M CONTINUALLY GOING TO BE IN TIME-OUT.
WHERE'S JUERGEN GOING?
WELL, DID YOU HEAR?
HE SNUCK OVER AND SLEPT IN LEANNE'S MANSION AGAIN
LAST NIGHT.
AGAIN?
DOES HE NOT KNOW THERE'S NO MARRIAGE?
YEAH.
TRY AND TELL HIM THAT. HE'S IN TIME-OUT.
BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO.
IT WON'T BE HEAVEN IF I'M SEPARATED FROM HER.
HEAVEN IS
I'M WITH HER.
LIKE, ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
JONATHAN: I'M SURE IT'LL WORK OUT IN SOME WAY.
LEANNE: YEAH, YEAH.
JUERGEN: I DON'T CARE.
I WAS IN TIME-OUT HERE.
REBECCA: WHAT WAS THAT LIKE FOR YOU
WHEN HE DID THAT FOR THOSE 20 MONTHS?
LEANNE: YEAH.
I THINK I WAS WAITING TO SEE IF I COULD BELIEVE
WHAT I WAS HEARING.
REBECCA: UNLESS IT WAS GOING TO REVERT BACK.
LEANNE: YEAH, YEAH.
AND I ALWAYS KNEW THAT HE LOVED ME, BUT THERE WERE JUST SOME,
JUERGEN: I JUST DIDN'T KNOW HOW.
LEANNE: NEGATIVE PATTERNS IN OUR MARRIAGE,
THINGS THAT HAD BEEN INHERITED.
JONATHAN: YEAH.
THOSE GENERATIONAL THINGS.
LEANNE: YEAH, THEY'RE GENERATIONAL, FOR SURE,
THAT WE HAD TO WORK OUT.
BUT YEAH.
THEN I SLOWLY STARTED TO SEE, OH MY GOSH, THIS IS NOT JUST WORDS.
THIS IS MY NEW REALITY.
AND SO MY HEART OPENED UP IN A WAY I FELT MORE CONFIDENT
BECAUSE I FELT MORE SECURE IN WHO HE WAS
IN THE HOME THAT WE WERE BUILDING TOGETHER.
JUERGEN: AND YEAH, AND IF I WAS REALLY, REALLY TRANSPARENT,
I FELT LIKE IT WAS AN EXERCISE
THAT WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO.
BUT YEAH, THERE'S PROBABLY A LITTLE BIT OF A HYPERBOLE
IN THERE.
GOD, ARE YOU GETTING ME TO EXAGGERATE?
AND NOW, LIKE I FEEL LIKE THE QUEEN OF SHEBA.
YOU KNOW WHAT I HEARD?
ONLY THE HALF OF IT WAS TOLD ME. SO I WOULD,
SO ALL OF HER SISTERS HAVE DEGREES.
TWO OF THEM HAVE DOUBLE DEGREES.
BECAUSE SHE MARRIED ME AT 17,
SHE DIDN'T GET TO GO TO COLLEGE.
SHE DIDN'T GET TO GET A DEGREE.
SO ALL OF HER SISTERS WOULD MAKE FUN THAT SHE'S THE,
YOU KNOW, THE NOT-SO-HIGHLY EDUCATED,
BUT HER WISDOM EXCEEDS ALL THE OTHER FOUR PUT TOGETHER.
AND I LOVE THEM ALL.
THEY'RE ALL VERY BEAUTIFUL AND BRILLIANT IN THEIR OWN WAY.
BUT HER WISDOM, THERE'S RARELY A DECISION I MAKE IN THE CHURCH
THAT I DON'T RUN BY HER AND GET HER PERSPECTIVE
ON THE WISDOM THAT GOD HAS GIVEN HER
IS LIKE, IT'S MINDBLOWING.
SO I FEEL LIKE I'VE BEEN MARRIED 33 YEARS TO THIS YOUNG LADY,
AND AFTER 33 YEARS, I'M STILL PLUMBING THE DEPTHS
OF THE MAJESTIC WOMAN THAT THIS IS LIKE,
LEANNE: SO SWEET.
JUERGEN: SHE'S SO EXTRAORDINARY.
LIKE BLOWS MY MIND. EVEN LAST WEEK,
LIKE IT'S THANKSGIVING AND WE HAVE THE BEST TURKEY,
THE BEST HAM, THE BEST EVERYTHING.
REBECCA: I'LL DO THAT FOR YOU ONE DAY.
JUERGEN: AND I'M LIKE, GOD, I'M GOING TO HONOR YOU
BECAUSE YOU DESERVE IT.
IT'S THANKSGIVING.
BUT JUST SO YOU KNOW, I'M IN FRONT OF ALL THE KIDS.
I'M GOING TO MODEL.
I'M GOING TO MAKE SURE EVERY ONE OF MY KIDS
RECOGNIZES THE AWESOMENESS THAT IS THEIR MAMA.
AND, YOU KNOW, AND GOD, GOD IS LIKE, HE'S LIKE,
YEAH, PLEASE.
FINALLY.
AND IT'S JUST THIS BEAUTIFUL, YOU KNOW, LIKE,
YOU CAN HONOR GOD AND HONOR MY WIFE.
LIKE SHE'S JUST EXTRAORDINARY.
AND IT WAS THE BEST, YOU KNOW, AND --
LEANNE: IT WAS THE BEST.
AND I WOULD SAY IT'S PROBABLY A GOOD POINT
TO TELL EVERYBODY WHO'S OUT THERE TODAY THINKING,
OH, MY GOSH, IS ANYTHING GOING TO SHIFT IN MY MARRIAGE?
IT ABSOLUTELY CAN.
WHEN YOU LISTEN TO THE HOLY SPIRIT
AND WHAT HE'S ASKING YOU TO DO.
SO THE MARRIAGE WE HAVE TODAY AFTER 33 YEARS
IS BEYOND MY WILDEST DREAMS AND EXPECTATIONS
OF WHAT I THOUGHT COULD BE POSSIBLE.
LIKE, I LOVE MY HUSBAND.
WE'RE BEST FRIENDS.
WE LOVE DOING MINISTRY TOGETHER, LIFE TOGETHER.
WE JOKE, WE LAUGH, WE HAVE FUN.
WE'RE EACH OTHER'S GREATEST CHEERLEADERS AND ENCOURAGERS.
I LOVE WHEN HE'S ON THE FRONT ROW WHENEVER I PREACH,
BECAUSE I ALWAYS KNOW I'M GOING TO GET A BIG, HEARTY AMEN.
JUERGEN: SO I'M THE ONLY MAN
THAT GOES TO OUR WOMEN'S CONFERENCE.
LEANNE: I NEED HIM THERE.
JUERGEN: BECAUSE SHE WANTS A FRONT ROW --
LEANNE: HE'S MY HYPE MAN.
I NEED MY HYPE MAN.
BUT I DON'T WANT TO DO ANYTHING WITHOUT HIM.
YEAH, WE WANT TO BE TOGETHER ALL THE TIME.
JUERGEN: IT'S SO FUNNY.
LIKE SHE'LL GET INVITED TO SOME OF MY OTHER, YOU KNOW,
PEER PASTORS' WOMEN'S CONFERENCES,
AND THEY'RE LIKE, YEAH, I'VE BOOKED, YOU KNOW,
A ROUND OF GOLF.
I'M LIKE, YEAH, NOT DURING HER SESSION THOUGH, RIGHT?
WHAT DO YOU MEAN?
REBECCA: AW, I LOVE THAT.
JUERGEN: WE DIDN'T GO TO...
I'M LIKE, YEAH, NO, I CAN'T MISS HER SESSION.
WHAT DO YOU MEAN, YOU CAN'T MISS HER SESSION?
NO, I HAVE TO BE THERE.
AND THEN I'M THERE AND, YOU KNOW, LIKE OUR CONGREGATION,
WE'VE TRAINED THEM TO BE VERY RESPONSIVE,
BUT, YOU KNOW.
LEANNE: IT'S VERY NOISY CONGREGATION.
JUERGEN: I'M STANDING UP, I'M SHOUTING IT DOWN,
AND THEY'RE LIKE, BRO, BRO.
REBECCA: YEAH, IF THEY'RE USED TO IT, THEY'RE LIKE,
WE DON'T DO THAT.
WE DON'T SAY ANYTHING.
JUERGEN: BUT I'M DETERMINED.
I'M GONNA, SHE'S GONNA,
REBECCA: SHE'S GONNA GET AN AMEN.
WAIT.
SO I WANT TO CLARIFY ONE THING BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE
I CAUGHT YOUR POINT,
BUT I WANT TO MAKE SURE THE AUDIENCE CATCHES IT.
WHEN YOU STARTED SPEAKING LIFE, WHEN GOD GAVE YOU
THIS REVELATION FROM GENESIS ABOUT ADAM AND EVE
SPEAKING PROPHETIC LIFE OVER YOUR SPOUSE,
YOU SAID IN THE BEGINNING, IT KIND OF FELT LIKE,
THIS IS SOMETHING I HAVE TO DO,
AND I ALMOST FEEL LIKE I'M EXAGGERATING.
BUT OVER TIME, YOU'VE COME TO REALIZE
HOW AMAZING YOUR WIFE IS.
JUERGEN: YES.
SO, YOU KNOW, REMEMBER, REMEMBER, 2020 WAS LIKE
CHURCHES WERE AFRAID TO SPEAK UP AND SPEAK OUT
AGAINST WHAT WAS GOING ON.
YEAH.
YOU KNOW, IT WAS ALL ABOUT COMPLIANCE.
HEY, FORCED VACCINATIONS, FORCED SHUTDOWNS.
REBECCA: Y'ALL WENT THROUGH ALL OF THAT.
LEANNE: YEAH, CALIFORNIA WAS PRETTY DIABOLICAL.
YEAH.
DURING 2020.
JUERGEN: SO I PREACHED TODAY ON THE,
BECAUSE THIS VERSE JUMPED OUT AT ME WHERE ELISHA
COMES TO THE SHUNAMMITE SON WHO'S DEAD.
AND GEHAZI RAN AHEAD WITH THE STAFF,
PUT THE STAFF ON THE CHILD, LIKE ELISHA SAID.
AND HE SAYS, THERE'S NO VOICE NOR HEARING.
THE CHILD IS NOT AWAKENED.
AND I THOUGHT, ISN'T THAT INTERESTING?
HE DIDN'T SAY THERE'S NO PULSE OR BREATH.
AND GOD SAID, BECAUSE HEAVEN MEASURES LIFE DIFFERENTLY.
WE MEASURE LIFE BY, IS THERE PULSE?
IS THERE A HEARTBEAT?
IS THERE COMPASSION?
AND IS THERE BREATH?
IS THERE INSPIRATION?
BECAUSE A LOT OF CHURCHES HAVE COMPASSION, FOOD PROGRAMS,
AND THEY HAVE INSPIRATIONAL WORSHIP
AND INSPIRATIONAL TEACHING, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY'RE ALIVE.
WHAT GOD, HOW HE MEASURES LIFE IS,
ARE THEY SPEAKING?
ARE THEY HEARING?
AND THEN GOD SAID TO, THIS IS WHAT HE SAID TO ME,
AND I'D NEVER HEARD IT BEFORE,
HE SAYS, THE EAR OPENS THE EYE.
I'M LIKE, WHAT? HE SAYS, AND I ALWAYS KNOW WHEN IT'S GOD,
BECAUSE IT'S PROFOUND AND IT'S TOO CLEVER FOR ME.
SO HEAR THE HOLY SPIRIT SAY, JUERGEN, THE EAR OPENS THE EYE.
AND I'M LIKE, WHAT ON EARTH?
HE SAYS, THE WORD OF THE LORD CAME TO ME.
AND THEN I LOOKED AND I SAW, AND THE WORD OF THE LORD
CAME TO ME, AND I BEHELD THE.
SO WHEN THE WORD OF THE LORD COMES, IT OPENS THE EYE.
AND WHAT I DIDN'T REALIZE WAS GOD WAS GETTING ME TO
SPEAK THOSE WORDS, BECAUSE THE EAR OPENS THE EYE.
SO THAT'S HOW THE PROPHETIC WORDS,
YOU RELEASE A PROPHETIC WORD.
AND NOW YOU SEE, THAT'S POWERFUL.
NOW I SEE IT.
AND SO I DIDN'T REALIZE AT THE TIME, GOD'S LIKE,
FOR YOU TO SEE WHAT I SEE IN THIS GIRL,
I NEED TO CHANGE YOUR SPEAKING.
BECAUSE IF YOU KEEP SPEAKING ALL THE NEGATIVE WORDS,
YOU'LL NEVER SEE.
BUT IF YOU SPEAK HEAVENLY WORDS, IF YOU SPEAK MY WORDS,
IT'LL OPEN YOUR EYES AND YOU WILL SEE.
SO NOW I FEEL LIKE, OH MY GOD.
LIKE I FELT LIKE I COULD HAVE DOUBLED DOWN,
TRIPLED DOWN ON THOSE WORDS AND STILL NOT HAVE HIT, YOU KNOW,
EVERYTHING THAT'S THERE.
BUT THERE'S SOMETHING VERY, VERY POWERFUL.
DOES THAT MAKE SENSE?
THAT THE EAR OPENS THE EYES.
REBECCA: AND THAT WAS SUCH A GOOD WORD.
SO DO YOU FEEL LIKE THAT IN CONTRAST TO THAT,
THE ENEMY WANTS YOU TO SPEAK DEATH?
LEANNE: DEATH?
ABSOLUTELY.
THE NEGATIVE.
JUERGEN: IF YOU THINK OF ALL THE SITCOMS, YOU KNOW,
EVERYBODY LOVES RAYMOND .
THE MOM AND DAD HAVE THE WORST MARRIAGE.
LIKE, THEY'RE ALWAYS CONDESCENDING AND NEGATIVE
AND INSULTING.
AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE, WELL, DUH, OF COURSE YOU'RE MISERABLE.
OF COURSE YOUR MARRIAGE SUCKS.
LOOK AT WHAT COMES OUT OF YOUR MOUTH, DOOFUS.
YEAH, LIKE, IF YOU START SPEAKING LIFE,
IF YOU START SPEAKING LIFE, EVERYTHING.
SO I TEACH THAT TO OUR MEN.
SO I TEACH OUR MEN,
YOU KNOW, IT'S IN EMERGE THAT, YOU KNOW,
YOUR WIFE IS A PRODUCT OF YOUR HUSBANDRY,
AND YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO LOVE HER.
YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO LOVE HER.
SHE WILL TEACH YOU IF YOU'LL LEARN.
AND HER HUSBAND IS A MAN IN TRAINING.
BUT WE NEVER GRADUATE.
SO TELL ALL THE MEN,
JUST BUCKLE UP, DOROTHY.
CANCER'S GOING
BYE BYE, HUSBAND,
YOU'RE A MAN IN TRAINING.
SHE WILL TEACH YOU HOW TO LOVE HER.
SO I'VE HAD TO LEARN HOW TO LOVE HER.
BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I WANT HER TO BECOME LIKE ONE OF THE GUYS.
REBECCA: HOW DID YOU LEARN?
JONATHAN: HE'S LEARNING.
JUERGEN: YEAH.
STILL LEARNING.
REBECCA: WELL, BUT I'M,
I'M THINKING ABOUT,
I'M LIKE STUTTERING.
JONATHAN: WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO DO A PART TWO OF THIS
BECAUSE YOU HAVE A MILLION QUESTIONS, AND WE DO HAVE TO
PUT A BOW ON IT.
REBECCA: IT'S SO GOOD.
JONATHAN: YEAH.
JONATHAN: I WANT TO HEAR HOW THEY GOT TO CALIFORNIA.
REBECCA: WAIT, WAIT.
LET ME ASK MY
QUESTION FIRST.
JONATHAN: NO, NO, NO. I'M JUST KIDDING.
REBECCA: NO, NO, NO, NO.
FOR THE MEN THAT ARE, I FEEL LIKE THERE'S PEOPLE
THAT ARE WATCHING,
THEY'RE LIKE, I DON'T, I DIDN'T HAVE A GOOD,
THE BEST EXAMPLE IN MY OWN HOME.
YEAH, I WANT TO DO RIGHT BY MY WIFE.
I FEEL LIKE THERE IS AN EPIDEMIC OF THAT IN SOCIETY TODAY.
AND THEY'RE WATCHING THIS AND THEY'RE THINKING,
WELL, I WANT TO DO THAT, BUT I HAVE NO IDEA HOW.
HOW DOES A MAN LEARN?
HOW DOES HE GET DISCIPLED IN THAT?
JUERGEN: IT'S BY DOING WHAT MEN DON'T LIKE TO DO,
AND THAT'S LISTEN.
SO YOU KNOW, SO THE BIBLE TALKS ABOUT, YOU KNOW,
A CONTENTIOUS WOMAN DRIPPING TAP, BETTER DWELL
IN THE CORNER OF HER HOUSE.
YOU KNOW, WE KNOW THAT NAGGING ISN'T RIGHT.
BUT QUITE OFTEN, NAGGING IS WHAT A WOMAN WILL
PUT HER HAND OUT TO BECAUSE SHE'S NOT BEING LISTENED TO.
THAT'S WHY SHE'LL NAG.
BECAUSE SHE DOESN'T FEEL HEARD.
SO, YOU KNOW, THE FIRST THING THAT EVERY WOMAN WANTS TO KNOW,
IS SHE SEEN AND IS SHE HEARD.
SO REMEMBER THE STORY OF LEAH
WHO HAD THE DELICATE EYES, AND SHE WAS UNLOVED.
AND WHEN THE LORD SAW THAT SHE WAS UNLOVED, HE OPENED HER WOMB.
AND THE FIRST CHILD IS REUBEN, WHICH MEANS TO BE SEEN,
BECAUSE SHE WANTS TO BE SEEN.
SHE WANTS TO BE NOTICED.
REBECCA: LIKE BY JACOB.
JUERGEN: YEAH.
IS HE JUST BECAUSE HE LOOKS PAST HER TO RACHEL.
BUT SHE WANTS TO BE SEEN.
SHE GOES, NOW MY HUSBAND WILL SEE ME.
SO THE FIRST THING SHE WANTS ME TO SEE HER.
SO, YOU KNOW,
AND PLEASE FORGIVE ME.
AND PLEASE FEEL FREE TO DELETE THIS, BUT I --
LEANNE: I'M BRACING MYSELF.
JUERGEN: EVERY TIME,
EVERY TIME SHE'S IN THE SHOWER,
I COME RUNNING INTO THE BATHROOM.
GO,
WAIT.
YOU NEVER TOLD ME THERE WAS A SHOW, YOU KNOW?
AND YOU KNOW, AND IT'S JUST A COMEDY THING.
BUT I WANT HER TO KNOW,
LIKE...
REBECCA: THAT'S SWEET, THOUGH.
JUERGEN: YOU ARE STILL THE MOST BEAUTIFUL,
THE MOST AWESOME THING.
I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU DIDN'T TELL ME THERE WAS A SHOW ON.
THIS IS MY FAVORITE SHOW.
NOTHING ON TELEVISION COMPARES TO THIS, YOU KNOW,
BECAUSE I WANT HER TO TO BE SEEN.
REBECCA: TO FEEL LOVED AND VALUED.
JUERGEN: TO FEEL LOVED.
AND SO IF I WAS HONEST WITH YOU, I DON'T MAKE HER GO GOLFING.
I WISH SHE WOULD JUST TO PRAY.
LEANNE: IF IT WASN'T SO LONG AND BORING.
JUERGEN: HOWEVER, I DO GO SHOPPING, AND IT IS NOT EASY,
BUT I'LL SIT IN THE DRESSING ROOM.
REBECCA: THAT'S HILARIOUS.
JUERGEN: AND I WILL TELL HER THAT LOOKS BEAUTIFUL, BABE.
LEANNE: YOU KNOW, I DON'T LIKE SHOPPING WITH ANYONE ELSE
BUT HIM.
HE'S BRILLIANT.
JUERGEN: BUT IT'S NOT EASY.
IT'S LIKE...
JONATHAN: IT'S VERY HARD.
JUERGEN: IT'S SO HARD.
REBECCA: HE'S SO GOOD AT PICKING OUT OUTFITS, THOUGH.
JUERGEN: IT IS.
IT'S REALLY DIFFICULT.
LEANNE: THEN YOU'RE BLESSED.
THIS IS RARE.
THIS IS UNIQUE.
JUERGEN: SO THE FIRST ONE IS TO BE SEEN.
BUT THE SECOND ONE, SO SHE, YOU KNOW,
SHE CONCEIVES AGAIN AND BRINGS FORTH SIMEON.
AND SIMEON MEANS TO BE HEARD.
REBECCA: OH, WOW.
JURGEON: SIMEON MEANS TO BE HEARD.
SO SHE DOESN'T WANT TO JUST BE SEEN.
SO MOST GUYS, BABE,
OH, YOU KNOW, YOU LOOK SO BEAUTIFUL.
SO THAT'S THE FIRST ONE.
BUT SHE WANTS TO BE HEARD.
AND THEN FROM HEARD, IT'S LEVI'S THE NEXT, ATTACHED.
SO THERE'S A SEQUENCE.
JONATHAN: THAT'S COOL. I'VE NEVER HEARD THAT.
JUERGEN: AND THEN JUDAH MEANS PRAISED.
SO IF YOU WANT TO KNOW THE RECIPE, IT'S IN THE
GOD BRINGS HIS VERY, VERY BROKEN.
THIS UNLOVED WOMAN.
HER DAD WAS SUCH A JACK WAGON.
REBECCA: I KNOW. HE WAS.
JUERGEN: HE TRICKED.
HE TRICKED, HE TRICKED LIKE,
RACHEL.
HEY, BABE, YOU GOT NO OTHER CHANCE.
UNLESS I TRICK HIM, NO ONE'S GOING TO MARRY YOU.
SO HE PUSHES HER IN
IN THE DARK.
REBECCA: LEAH.
JUERGEN: LEAH.
SO THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE SEX, WHICH IS MARRIAGE.
SO WHEN HE WAKES UP,
HANG ON.
WAIT, WHAT?
REBECCA: I KNOW.
JUERGEN: IT'S TOO LATE NOW, BRO.
TWO BECOME ONE.
TELL YOU WHAT.
WORK FOR ANOTHER SEVEN YEARS, AND I'LL THROW LEAH IN, AS WELL.
LEANNE: RACHEL.
YEAH.
JUERGEN: WELL, YOU KNOW, ANYWAY.
SO YEAH.
SO IT'S THE 14 YEARS HE HAS TO WORK,
BUT GOD USES IT SO POWERFULLY.
AND HE DOES THIS WITH AN UNLOVED WOMAN.
THESE ARE THE FOUR LONGINGS OF A WOMAN:
SHE WANTS TO BE SEEN.
SHE WANTS TO BE HEARD, SHE WANTS TO BE ATTACHED,
AND SHE WANTS TO BE PRAISED.
AND IT'S IN THAT ORDER.
SHE HAS TO BE SEEN, AND THEN HEARD.
AND SO WHAT I FOUND, GETTING BACK TO YOUR QUESTION,
IT'S,
YOU SAW HER.
THAT'S WHY YOU MARRIED HER.
YOU SAW LIKE, WOW, SHE'S HOT.
I WANT TO BE WITH HER.
THAT'S THE WOMAN I WANT TO MARRY.
NOW, YOU GOT TO UNDERSTAND, IT'S NOW SIMEON.
SHE LONGS TO BE HEARD, AND IT'S ONE OF THE MOST, I THINK,
PROBABLY ONE OF THE BIGGEST CHALLENGES FOR A MAN,
TO SIT AND LISTEN.
BECAUSE WOMEN DON'T TALK SENSICAL.
MEN ARE LOGICAL. WOMEN,
WOMEN SPEAK EMOTIONAL.
THEY SPEAK IN CIRCLES.
BUT YOU'VE GOT TO LET HER.
AND YOU HAVE TO,
YOU HAVE TO PREVENT YOURSELF --
JONATHAN: ONE OF MY NICKNAMES FOR HER IS
RING AROUND THE ROSIE.
LEANNE: OH, REALLY?
REBECCA: YEAH.
LEANNE: RING AROUND THE ROSIE.
REBECCA: SO MANY THINGS. KEEP GOING.
SO IT IS HARD BECAUSE MEN ARE LIKE,
JUST GET TO THE POINT.
JUERGEN: GET TO THE POINT.
REBECCA: WOMEN ARE LIKE,
BRRT.
JUERGEN: YEAH, BUT
BUT BUT BUT. THAT'S MEN BECAUSE WE'RE FIXERS.
SO GOD PUT ADAM IN THE GARDEN TO TEND.
AND THE KEEPER, HE'S LIKE, WHERE'S THE LEAK?
WHERE'S THE IRRIGATION?
WHERE NEEDS PLUMBING?
WHAT LEAF NEEDS,
YOU KNOW, WHAT BRANCH NEEDS PRUNING?
LIKE, I'M READY TO GO WITH MY TOOLKIT.
AND GOD'S LIKE, OH,
YOU AIN'T EVEN READY FOR WHAT
I'M ABOUT TO BRING YOU, WOMAN.
AND YOU,
OH, TRY AND FIX HER.
THIS EYE IS GOING TO BE SWOLLEN SHUT.
AND THIS LIP IS GOING TO BE, YOU KNOW,
LIKE SHE DON'T NEED FIXING, BRO.
SHE NEEDS LISTENING.
SHE NEEDS LOVING.
SHE NEEDS NURTURING.
SHE AIN'T THERE FOR YOU TO FIX.
AND SO WE WANT YOU TO GET TO THE POINT SO WE CAN FIX THE PROBLEM
AND WE CAN MOVE ON.
BUT THAT'S NOT,
BUT A WOMAN NEEDS TO BE HEARD TO BE LOVED.
IF SHE FEELS DISMISSED;
BABE, JUST GET TO THE POINT.
LOOK WHAT'S REAL SIMPLE.
DON'T TALK TO SUSAN ANYMORE.
SHE'S OBVIOUSLY NOT REALLY.
AND SO WE WANT TO FIX IT.
WELL, BABE, NEXT TIME, YOU CALL THE PLUMBER,
DON'T WAIT FOR ME TO COME HOME.
LOOK HOW BAD THE LEAK IS NOW.
SHE DOESN'T WANT TO BE FIXED.
SHE WANTS TO BE LISTENED TO.
SHE WANTS TO BE HEARD.
SO YOU KNOW HOW THERE'S THE FIVE LOVE LANGUAGES?
SO I TELL ALL OF OUR MEN THAT THERE ARE FIVE.
NOT REALLY.
FOR MEN, THERE ARE TWO.
TOUCH ME.
TELL ME I'M AWESOME.
YOU KNOW, PHYSICAL TOUCH, WORDS OF AFFIRMATION.
AND A MAN,
YOU COULD PUT HIM ON THE MOON.
THAT'S ALL HE NEEDS.
PHYSICAL TOUCH.
HE COULD SURVIVE ANYWHERE ON THOSE TWO.
BUT FOR A WOMAN,
DON'T BE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT,
OH, NO, SHE'S, YOU KNOW, ACTS OF KINDNESS.
NO, NO, NO. SHE'S ALL FIVE.
AND IT CHANGES BY NOT JUST THE DAY. THE HOUR.
AND YOU BETTER BE READY AT WHICH ONE IT IS.
SO I FOUND THAT FOR HER,
ONE THAT IS ALWAYS ON THE RADAR IS QUALITY TIME.
QUALITY TIME.
REBECCA: I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT.
JUERGEN: BECAUSE QUALITY TIME MEANS LISTENING.
REBECCA: YEAH, YEAH.
JUERGEN: I REALLY DON'T LIKE QUALITY TIME
BECAUSE WE'VE GOT A TEE TIME IN AN HOUR AND I GOTTA,
OH DEAR GOD, OH, SHE JUST STARTED,
OH MY GOD,
LIKE ABOUT JANICE.
OH NO, YOU'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT JANICE.
OH DEAR GOD, THIS IS NEVERENDING.
REBECCA: I FEEL LIKE YOU'RE LIKE UNRAVELING
LIKE, THIS IS ACTUALLY VERY POWERFUL TRUTH THOUGH,
YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?
UNDERSTANDING ESPECIALLY, I THINK AS YOU HAVE LIKE,
SMALL KIDS AND NOW MEN HAVE LESS AND LESS TIME,
AND MEN LIKE TO GO OUT AND JUST BE HAVE TO NOT THINK
ABOUT ANYTHING.
AND SO THIS IS REQUIRING ALL THAT BRAINWORK.
BUT IF MEN CAN DO THAT, IT WOULD CAUSE
SUCH BREAKTHROUGH IN THEIR MARRIAGES.
JUERGEN: AND IT WOULD.
AND YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD, BECAUSE A LOT OF WOMEN
WILL THEN NAG OR BAG THEIR HUSBAND.
ESPECIALLY IN THAT SEASON WITH YOUNG KIDS,
TIME CHALLENGES ON HIM.
HE DOES NEED TO GO OFF.
SO WHAT'S MAGNIFICENT ABOUT HER IS EVEN THOUGH
SHE'S, YOU KNOW, LIKE, NOT A BIG FAN, SHE KNOWS I NEED IT.
SHE'S SO AMAZING.
SHE'S LIKE, BABE, YOU NEED TO GO AND PLAY GOLF.
YOU NEED TO GO AND HIT BALLS.
YOU NEED TO GO TO THE DRIVING RANGE, PUT YOUR EARBUDS IN
AND HIT BALLS.
SHE KNOWS THAT.
ONCE I'VE GOT THAT OUT, I CAN SIT WITH HER.
BUT WE START THE DAY WITH COFFEE EVERY, EVERY DAY.
SO WE READ OUR BIBLES AND DO COFFEE EVERY MORNING.
LEANNE: YEAH, WE DO.
JUERGEN: AND IT'S A CARTE BLANCHE THING.
SO SHE'S NOW BECOME UNBELIEVABLY BRILLIANT,
LIKE SO REVERENT IN THE FACT THAT SHE KNOWS,
DON'T TALK TO HIM UNTIL HE'S FINISHED READING HIS BIBLE.
BUT I WOULD GO IN THERE WITH HER.
WHEN SHE TALKS, I WILL FOLD.
BUT I THINK, MAYBE I, BECAUSE I WAS HALFWAY THROUGH,
YOU KNOW, A VERSE OR A POINT OR, YOU KNOW.
BUT SHE HAS, YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE GOD AND LEANNE,
IT'S LIKE GOD AND LEANNE FIRST.
AND SO SHE CAN TALK ABOUT ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING
THAT SHE WANTS TO TALK ABOUT IN THAT TIME.
AND SO IT PROBABLY TAKES ME 20, 25 MINUTES
BECAUSE I DO A ONE-YEAR BIBLE, AND IT HAS A DAILY READING.
REBECCA: THAT'S SO COOL.
I LOVE
THAT LAYOUT, THAT PLAN.
JONATHAN: TODAY, YOU GOT UP WITH ME.
THAT WAS FUN.
REBECCA: YEAH. SO EARLY.
JONATHAN: I GOT UP A LITTLE TOO EARLY FOR HER.
LEANNE: IT'S HARD WHEN YOU HAVE LITTLES.
REBECCA: IT IS.
LEANNE: EVERYTHING BECOMES A LITTLE BIT HARDER.
BOTH: YEAH, YEAH.
REBECCA: EVERYONE JUST KEEPS TELLING US, IT'S JUST A SEASON.
AND SO I'M LIKE, I'M LIKE, THE OTHER NIGHT,
I WAS LIKE, I'M JUST GONNA BELIEVE THESE PEOPLE.
I LITERALLY LAST NIGHT,
JONATHAN: I WAS TALKING TO HER EARLIER.
REBECCA: BECAUSE EVERYONE SAYS IT.
SO I'M LIKE, THESE PEOPLE ARE TELLING THE TRUTH.
JONATHAN: AND I WAS LIKE, WHAT WAS IT LIKE GOING
FROM 3 TO 4?
SHOULD WE DO IT?
BECAUSE WE WERE REALLY TALKING ABOUT IT.
AND SHE'S LIKE, DO IT.
SHE'S LIKE, GO TO FIVE.
BOTH: YES.
REBECCA: THAT'S WHAT EVERYONE WHO LIKE IS IN THE STAGE
WITH THEIR KIDS ARE OLDER.
EVERYONE SAYS, HAVE MORE KIDS.
LEANNE: WELL, I THINK IT'S HARD WHEN YOU'RE IN IT, TOO,
BECAUSE LIFE'S SO BUSY.
BUT IF YOU CAN JUST ZOOM OUT AND THINK,
WHAT DO I WANT MY FAMILY TO LOOK LIKE
REBECCA: BIG PICTURE
LEANNE: IN 15 YEARS.
AND I THINK I HAVE ONE REGRET, AND THAT IS THAT
WE DIDN'T HAVE ONE MORE AFTER OUR DAUGHTER.
WE HAD ZOE, AND THEN I WISH WE HAD ONE MORE,
BUT I THINK I WAS JUST SO TIRED AT THE TIME AND EXHAUSTED.
JUERGEN: AND I PROMISED HER, BECAUSE WHEN TOMMY WAS BORN,
AS HE WAS BEING BORN, SHE'S SCREAMING AT ME,
PROMISE ME YOU'LL NEVER DO THIS TO ME AGAIN.
PROMISE ME.
I'M LIKE...
LEANNE: I DON'T THINK IT WAS THAT BAD.
I THINK THAT I DON'T WANT TO HAVE ANY MORE KIDS.
JONATHAN: IT ALWAYS FEELS LIKE THAT.
REBECCA: YES, YES, I'M SURE IT DOES.
JUERGEN: BUT THEN ZOE SLIPPED THROUGH THE GOALPOSTS,
SO I PROMISE.
BUT I WAS TWICE BOOKED IN FOR A VASECTOMY
AND TWICE GOT OUT OF IT.
AND THEN AFTER ZOE, SAID, ALL RIGHT, I'LL GO AND BE NEUTERED,
YOU KNOW.
SO. YEAH.
SO NOW I LIKE HALLMARK MOVIES AND I WEAR A CARDIGAN.
LEANNE: AND DRINK SOY LATTES.
JUERGEN: SO I STILL KEPT MY MASCULINITY.
BUT YEAH, WE DO REGRET.
WE'RE LIKE, YEAH, WISH WE COULD HAVE GONE
ONE MORE.
LEANNE: SO I THINK IF YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT IT, FOR SURE,
JUMP IN, HAVE FUN.
REBECCA: LIFE IS SHORT.
JUERGEN: LIFE IS SHORT.
LEANNE: AND THANKSGIVING WAS SO BEAUTIFUL.
WE HAD OUR FOUR KIDS, OUR TWO DAUGHTER-IN-LAWS,
OUR LITTLE GRANDSON.
WE'VE GOT TWO MORE GRANDCHILDREN ON THE WAY.
AND IT WAS JUST, IT WAS PERFECT.
AND NOBODY WAS AT THE TABLE
THAT WAS, I WAS THINKING, GOSH, GEEZ, I WISH I NEVER HAD YOU.
LIKE, THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN.
ON THE CONTRARY, I THINK, IMAGINE IF WE JUST HAD ONE MORE.
ONE MORE LITTLE GIRL.
BUT YEAH.
REBECCA: DO YOU --
JONATHAN: I WANT TO DO A PART TWO.
REBECCA: OKAY, THEN.
JONATHAN: YOU GUYS PROMISE TO COME BACK?
REBECCA: TWO THINGS, THEN.
TWO.
TWO THINGS.
ONE,
SHOULD WE ASK THEM ABOUT GOING OUT --
JONATHAN: LET'S SAVE THE WHOLE THING,
DO A WHOLE CALIFORNIA.
REBECCA: OKAY, THEN THERE'S ONE QUESTION THAT I WANT TO ASK
IN CONJUNCTION TO WHAT THEY'RE SAYING, BECAUSE I'M ONLINE.
OKAY.
SO THERE'S TWO THINGS THAT YOU'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT
THAT I SEE ONLINE THAT I WANT YOU TO, AND YOU CAN
PICK ONE IF YOU WANT.
WE DON'T HAVE TO DO BOTH.
ONE IS, ALL THE MAN HATE ONLINE BECAUSE IT IS LIKE I,
BECAUSE I'M ON TIKTOK, AND I JUST, WHAT I SEE FROM WOMEN,
I'M LIKE, I TOLD JONATHAN, I WAS LIKE, YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW.
BECAUSE IF YOU'RE NOT ON IT, BECAUSE IT'S,
YOU DON'T EVEN SEE IT.
I WAS LIKE, THEY HATE MEN.
LIKE EVERY VIDEO I SEE,
IT'S LIKE THEY JUST THINK MEN ARE THERE, LIKE MEN ARE TRASH
AND THEY'RE NOT WORTH IT.
AND I'M LIKE, OH, YOU KNOW.
AND THEN THE OTHER THING I SEE IS SO MANY --
JONATHAN: I DON'T SEE ANY OF THAT ON MY ALGORITHM.
BECAUSE MINE ARE JUST GOLF AND JUJITSU.
REBECCA: YEAH.
THE YOUNGER GENERATION.
JUERGEN: THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS.
HELLO.
REBECCA: YEAH, I THINK IT'S THE GENERATION,
IT'S GEN Z
AND UNDER THAT I'VE SEEN THAT FROM,
AND I'VE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE IT.
LEANNE: THAT'S SCARY.
REBECCA: I FEEL LIKE IT'S LIKE AN EPIDEMIC.
AND THE OTHER THING I KEEP SEEING IS,
SHOULD I EVEN HAVE ANY KIDS?
I'M GOING TO BE CHILDLESS.
SO WHAT WOULD YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT BE
TO THE YOUNGER GENERATIONS THAT ARE LISTENING?
LEANNE: YEAH, I WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW,
LOOK TO A DIFFERENT SOURCE.
IF YOU'RE GETTING THE SUM TOTAL OF YOUR WORLDVIEW
FROM TIKTOK, I MEAN,
THAT'S ALREADY A REALLY BAD START.
BUT, YOU KNOW, HONESTLY, I THINK IT'S SUCH
AN INSIDIOUS DEMONIC ATTACK, ESPECIALLY AGAINST MEN
RIGHT NOW.
AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S BEEN ACTUALLY THE CATALYST
FOR JUERGEN, WRITING THE EMERGE BOOK, WAS
THE ATTACK AGAINST MASCULINITY.
JUERGEN: TOXIC MASCULINITY.
SO THAT'S WHY I WROTE.
LEANNE: SO IT'S VERY SAD, BUT IT REALLY IS THE SPIRIT OF THE AGE.
WHEN YOU READ THE, OBVIOUSLY, THE BIBLE,
YOU SEE THAT THAT JEZEBEL-LIKE ATTACK WILL BE ONE OF
THE FINAL ATTACKS THAT THE CHURCH FACES.
AND IT REALLY COMES TO SUFFOCATE THE STRENGTH OF MEN.
AND THE THE WORD HUSBAND IN HEBREW
ACTUALLY MEANS THE STRENGTH OF THE HOUSE.
SO YOU THINK, HOW CLEVER OF THE DEVIL TO GO AFTER THE MEN,
GO AFTER THE STRENGTH OF THE HOUSE,
TO BRING THE WHOLE THING TUMBLING DOWN,
TO DESTROY THE FAMILY UNIT, WHICH REALLY IS
THE BACKBONE OF A HEALTHY SOCIETY.
SO I SEE IT FIRST AS A SATANIC ATTACK.
AND THE SECOND THING I SEE IS THE FACT THAT
THE CHURCH IS NOT SPOKEN INTO IT WITH THE GREATEST LEVEL
OF TRUTH AND FOCUS THAT IT NEEDS TO.
SO WE'VE BEEN REALLY FOCUSED ON BUILDING STRONG AND HEALTHY MEN.
A LOT OF THESE WOMEN THAT ARE SAYING THE THINGS
YOU'RE SEEING ON TIKTOK, THAT'S BEEN THEIR EXPERIENCE,
WHETHER IT BE WITH A FATHER WHO WAS ABSENT
OR A BOYFRIEND OR AN EX-HUSBAND WHO BETRAYED THEM.
THEY'RE EXPERIENCING THESE THINGS WITH MEN
THAT ARE LEAVING A BAD TASTE IN THEIR MOUTHS.
SO THAT'S WHERE THE CHURCH HAS THE RESPONSIBILITY
TO RAISE GODLY, STRONG, VIRTUOUS MEN.
AND THAT'S WHY WHAT WE'RE DOING WITH THE EMERGE MEN'S MINISTRY
AT OUR CHURCH IS SO SIGNIFICANT,
BECAUSE WE'RE BUILDING THOSE KINDS OF MEN
TO BE THE LEADERS OF SOCIETY AND FAMILY AND CHURCH
THAT THE NATION NEEDS TO THRIVE.
SO WOMEN AREN'T DISAPPOINTED WHEN THEY'RE LOOKING OUT,
BUT THEY'RE ENCOURAGED.
THEY'RE FULL OF HOPE.
REBECCA: THAT'S POWERFUL.
LEANNE: BUT THEN ALSO ON BEHALF OF THE WOMEN, TOO,
LIKE, YOU KNOW, WOMEN HAVE TO GRAB AHOLD OF
WHAT JUERGEN WAS SAYING ABOUT BEING ENCOURAGERS,
CALLING OUT THE BEST.
WHEN YOU SEE THE STORY OF DEBORAH IN THE BOOK OF JUDGES,
SHE CALLED OUT THE STRENGTH IN BARAK.
IN A TIME WHERE THE BIBLE SAYS THE MEN OR THE WARRIORS
WERE WEAK AND SLOPPY, THAT'S THE BIBLE'S WORDS.
SHE CALLED OUT THE WARRIOR IN BARAK, SHE SAID, ARISE,
BARAK, SON OF ABINOAM, FOR GOD HAS GIVEN US VICTORY.
AND THAT'S THE SAME TACK WE NEED TO TAKE AS WOMEN.
LIKE, CALL OUT THE STRENGTH, CALL OUT THE VIRTUE,
CALL OUT THE COURAGE.
CALL OUT WHAT'S GOOD.
REBECCA: THAT'S SO GOOD.
JUERGEN: SO IF I CAN TIE A BOW ON THAT, JUST SO THAT, YOU KNOW,
THE AUDIENCE LISTENING CAN HAVE A BIBLICAL REFERENCE,
BECAUSE, AGAIN, YOU KNOW,
SON OF AN ATHEIST SAVED ON A BEACH.
SO EVERYTHING I KNOW JUST CAME FROM THE BIBLE.
SO YOU CAN ALWAYS ACTUALLY TELL THE SPIRITUAL BAROMETER
OF THE WORLD OR THE NATION BY THE LEVEL OF ATTACK
OF THE DEVIL.
SO FOR THE FACT THAT THE DEVIL IS ATTACKING MAN,
GENDER, AND CHILDREN, THAT MEANS HE'S GOT SUCH
A RISE IN INFLUENCE THAT HE'S ALL THE WAY IN GENESIS.
IN GENESIS ONE, GOD CREATED MAN,
LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE AND IN OUR LIKENESS.
SO THAT HATRED OF MEN IS ACTUALLY A HATRED OF GOD.
AND THEN CHILDREN ARE,
WE DON'T EVEN KNOW IF WE WANT TO HAVE CHILDREN.
GOD SAID TO MAN, BE FRUITFUL, MULTIPLY, FILL THE EARTH.
SO YOU'VE GOT TO RECOGNIZE IT AS SATANIC.
SO IF YOU FAST FORWARD A LITTLE BIT IN GENESIS,
GO FROM GENESIS ONE NOW TO GENESIS EIGHT.
THE ARK COMES TO REST ON THE MOUNTAINS OF ARARAT.
AND NOAH OPENS A WINDOW, AND THE FIRST BIRD HE RELEASES
IS NOT A DOVE.
DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE FIRST BIRD IS?
YEAH, IT'S A CROW OR A RAVEN, A BLACKBIRD.
DOES IT COME BACK?
NO, IT GOES OUT.
DOESN'T RETURN, HE SHUTS THE WINDOW, WAITS SEVEN DAYS.
SEVEN IN SCRIPTURE IS A COMPLETION.
AND IT'S A COMPLETION OF AN ENOCH, A COMPLETION OF A TIME,
AN EPOCH.
SEVEN DAYS LATER,
HE OPENS THE WINDOW AGAIN AND RELEASES A DOVE.
THE DOVE COULD FIND NO PLACE TO REST HER FOOT,
AND RETURNS TO NOAH.
HE BRINGS HER IN, WAITS ANOTHER SEVEN YEARS.
IT'S ANOTHER EPOCH.
LEANNE: SEVEN DAYS.
JUERGEN: EXCUSE ME.
SEVEN DAYS.
OPENS A WINDOW.
SHE GOES OUT AGAIN AND THIS TIME SHE RETURNS
WITH AN OLIVE BRANCH IN HER MOUTH.
THEN HE KNOWS THAT THE WATERS HAVE ABATED
AND THERE'S NOW PEACE.
THE OLIVE BRANCH STILL TO THIS DAY IS A SYMBOL OF PEACE.
HE WAITS ANOTHER SEVEN DAYS, ANOTHER EPOCH,
AND THEN HE OPENS THE WINDOW AND RELEASES THE DOVE,
AND SHE RETURNS TO HIM NO MORE.
AND THEN THEY GO OUT OF THE ARK.
SO YOU'RE LIKE, GOD, WHAT A DUMB STORY.
JONATHAN: I LOVE THAT STORY.
JUERGEN: YEAH, BUT WHY WOULD GOD PUT IT IN THERE?
AND YOU PROBABLY ALREADY KNOW BECAUSE GOD IS
SHOWING THE FOUR STAGES, AND FOUR IS ALWAYS GOD.
IT'S ALWAYS GOD'S SOVEREIGNTY; THE FOUR WINDS,
THE FOUR CORNERS. FOUR.
THE FIRST ONE RELEASED WAS THE RAVEN.
SO IN GENESIS 1:2, IT SAYS, THE EARTH WAS FORMLESS, VOID.
DARKNESS COVERED THE FACE OF THE DEEP.
THE SEPTUAGINT IS THE GREEK TRANSLATION OF THE HEBREW.
SO TOHUBOHU, CHAOS AND DISORDER IN THE SEPTUAGINT
IS TRANSLATED ABYSSUS.
IN REVELATION 20, IT SAYS, AND I SAW A GREAT ANGEL COMING DOWN,
HAVING THE KEY TO THE ABYSSUS.
SO WHERE SATAN WAS BOUND FOR A THOUSAND YEARS.
SO SATAN WAS ORIGINALLY CAST OUT OF HEAVEN.
HEAVEN ORIGINALLY WAS A PRISON.
EARTH WAS ORIGINALLY A PRISON PLANET.
THAT GOD THEN BUILT AROUND THE PRISON.
THAT'S WHY ADAM WAS MEANT TO HAVE DOMINION AND OVERTHROW.
SO THE FIRST SPIRIT THAT WAS CAST INTO THE EARTH,
THAT IS PRODUCING A HARVEST,
IF YOU THINK OF SATAN AS A SEED, THAT'S WHY
LET EVERYTHING GROW TO THE HARVEST OF THE END OF THE AGE.
AND THE ANGELS WILL COME WITH THEIR SICKLES.
SONS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS.
SONS OF WICKEDNESS.
SO THE FIRST SPIRIT THAT WAS RELEASED IS THE RAVEN,
IS THE SATANIC SPIRITS, THE FIRST SPIRIT THAT IS RELEASED.
THE DOVE IS SENT, BUT HE CAN'T FIND ANYWHERE TO LAND
BECAUSE JUDGMENT WAS STILL ON THE EARTH.
SO HE WOULD COME UPON PEOPLE.
BUT JESUS SAID THERE WAS A PROMISE THAT THE TIME WILL COME,
AND IT COULD ONLY HAPPEN ONCE OUR SINS WERE ATONED FOR.
OLIVE BRANCH WHERE THE HOLY SPIRIT COULD NOW COME
AND DWELL WITH US.
SO WE'RE NOW IN THE AGE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.
SO, YOU KNOW, THE THIRD ONE WAS THE BRANCH,
THE OLIVE BRANCH, BECAUSE JESUS CHRIST WOULD BRING
PEACE ON EARTH, GOODWILL FROM GOD, PEACE ON EARTH
TOWARD ALL MANKIND.
AND THEN THE LAST STAGE WAS THE HOLY SPIRIT
WOULD NOT RETURN UNTIL THE END OF THE AGE,
SO HE WOULD BE WITH US.
BUT THE TWO BIRDS THAT WERE NOW IN THE EARTH
WAS THE RAVEN AND THE DOVE. THE RAVEN AND THE DOVE.
SO IT'S THE DEVIL, IT'S SATAN.
AND THAT'S WHERE JUDAISM MISSES IT.
JUDAISM CALL HIM HASATAN.
THEY CALL HIM THE SATAN.
HE'S LITTLE, HE'S INSIGNIFICANT.
BUT IF YOU READ THE NEW TESTAMENT,
IF YOU READ WHAT JESUS DID,
JESUS CAME TO EXPOSE.
SO AGAIN, JESUS IS THE WORD.
GENESIS 1:3, GOD SAID,
IT'S THE INTRODUCTION OF THE WORD.
IT'S YESHUA.
GOD SAID, LET THERE BE LIGHT, AND THERE WAS LIGHT.
JESUS SAID, I AM THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD.
NOW, WE HEAR THIS AS GREAT PREACHING.
IT'S NOT BIBLICAL, BUT IT'S GREAT PREACHING.
AND WHEN THE LIGHT CAME, THE DARKNESS FLED.
WHEN THE LIGHT CAME ON, THE DARKNESS LEFT.
THAT'S NOT WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS.
THE NEXT VERSE, VERSE FOUR, SAYS, AND THEN GOD
SEPARATED THE DARKNESS FROM THE LIGHT.
THE LIGHT HE CALLED DAY, THE DARKNESS HE CALLED NIGHT.
IN OTHER WORDS, WHEN LIGHT CAME,
THERE WAS A MIX OF DARKNESS AND LIGHT,
BUT ONLY THROUGH THE RELEASING OF THE WORD
CAN WE SEPARATE DARKNESS FROM LIGHT.
AND SO WE LIVE IN THAT AGE WHERE THE WORD HAS COME
TO HELP US TO SEPARATE DARKNESS FROM LIGHT.
AND SO THE PEOPLE WHO ARE CAUGHT UP IN MAN-HATING
AND WE'RE NOT SURE WE WANT TO HAVE BABIES
AND A PERSON CAN CHANGE THEIR GENDER JUST BY PRETENDING
THAT THEY WERE BORN IN THE WRONG BODY, OR PRETENDING
OR IDENTIFYING AS SOMETHING ELSE,
ALL OF THAT WE KNOW IS AN ATTACK ON GENESIS.
AND UNLESS THE CHURCH PREACHES THE WORD,
PEOPLE DON'T KNOW HOW TO SEPARATE DARKNESS FROM LIGHT.
AND SO WE HAVE TO SPEAK UP.
AND THAT'S WHAT LEANNE WAS SAYING.
GET YOUR GET YOUR INFORMATION FROM THE SCRIPTURES.
THE SCRIPTURES HAVE
BEEN THERE, DONE THAT, SEEN THAT.
THE BIBLE WILL OPEN YOUR EYES.
GOD MADE MAN IN HIS IMAGE AND HIS LIKENESS,
AND MALE AND FEMALE
HE CREATED THEM AND HE BLESSED THEM, NOT HIM,
THEM, AND SAID, BE FRUITFUL AND MULTIPLY.
SHE IS NOT MY INFERIOR.
SHE IS NOT MY SUBORDINATE.
GOD SAYS, I WILL MAKE HER HELPER, COMPATIBLE TO HIM.
SHE'S MY COMPLEMENTARY.
SHE'S MY COMPLETION.
SHE'S MY, I'M NOT DOMINEERING OF HER.
I'M RELEASING OF HER.
MY JOB IS TO SERVE HER.
MY JOB IS TO HONOR HER.
DOES THAT MAKE SENSE?
BUT THAT'S BIBLICAL.
JONATHAN: I'M SO GLAD YOU ASKED THAT QUESTION.
REBECCA: THANK YOU.
WELL, I FEEL LIKE THIS IS A GOOD PLACE THAT WE CAN WRAP IT.
NOW, WHY DON'T YOU INTRO US OUT?
JONATHAN: WHAT, YOU WANT ME TO DO THE PRAYER?
YOU WANT ME TO DO THE INTRO OUT?
REBECCA: NO, JUST...
JONATHAN: WELL, I JUST WANT TO SAY THANKS FOR COMING ON.
I DEFINITELY WANT TO HAVE YOU GUYS BACK AND DO PART TWO.
WE'LL PICK UP IN NEW ZEALAND.
LEANNE: GREAT.
JONATHAN: AND I WANT TO GO INTO HOW YOU'RE CALLED TO AMERICA.
WHY YOU WERE CALLED AMERICA, HOW GOD SPOKE THAT TO YOU,
AND THEN TALK ABOUT THE CHURCHES AND THE LOCATIONS
AND ALL THAT STUFF.
AND BY THEN, I'LL HAVE FINISHED YOUR BOOK BECAUSE I'M THROUGH.
I'M THROUGH THE BEGINNING OF CHAPTER ONE.
IT'S GREAT.
JUERGEN: GOOD.
OKAY, GOOD.
JONATHAN: I LOVED IT.
SO THANK YOU GUYS.
JUERGEN: MY PLEASURE.
LEANNE: THANK YOU. THANKS FOR
HAVING US.
JUERGEN: SO GREAT TO BE WITH YOU GUYS AGAIN.
REBECCA: YEAH.
AND FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT TO GET CONNECTED TO YOU GUYS,
HOW DO THEY DO THAT?
LEANNE: AWAKENCHURCH.COM,
AND IT'LL TELL YOU EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW.
WE HAVE INSTAGRAM.
AGAIN, IT'S @AWAKENCHURCH.
SO YEAH, WE'RE READY TO RECEIVE ALL THE BEAUTIFUL PEOPLE
THAT DAYSTAR SENDS.
YEAH.
REBECCA: AWESOME.
JUERGEN: YEAH.
AND OUR NAMES ARE PRETTY UNIQUE.
SO IF YOU JUST DO A GOOGLE SEARCH, IT BRINGS UP
ALL OF OUR SOCIAL MEDIA.
LEANNE: WE'RE NOT HARD TO FIND.
JUERGEN: WITH MATTHESIUS, YEAH.
REBECCA: WELL, THANK YOU BOTH SO MUCH.
JUERGEN: THANK YOU.
LEANNE: THANK YOU, REBECCA.
JUERGEN: IT'S AN HONOR.