Every gift that's marked in Romans 12,
there's a little phrase, it's only said one time,
prophesy, and it says according to your faith.
Well, that verse, that little phrase is really repeated
all over, it just isn't repeated every time.
But he does it the first time, and he's saying,
okay, if it's a gift of giving, according to your faith.
So you grow in your gifting.
It may start, but to grow, there are prophets that are,
how would I say, more mature prophets,
prophets that are seasoned prophets,
and there are prophets that are just beginning.
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And I'm excited today because I am joined
by kind of like a powerhouse of men of God.
We've got Dr. Morocco.
Prophet David, and Pastor Bruno.
So three amazing men.
How are you guys all connected?
Because I think we'll start there.
Now that's a great story.
In 1995...
We began what was called the Prophetic Conference in Maui.
It was a friend of mine who said to me,
you ought to have a prophetic conference.
Well, I didn't know what a prophetic conference was.
I thought it was the charts on the wall that would talk to,
you know, that tell what's going to happen at the end of time.
He said, oh, no, call-out rooms.
I said, call-out rooms?
What in the world is a call-out room?
He said, well, there's a prophet you put in a room.
He personally prophesies over everybody in the room.
I said, no way.
He said, yeah.
And it's awesome.
I said, well, I'll do it if you'll organize it.
So his name was Apostle Canis Tracy.
He organized the first one.
He brought some prophets in.
We had four prophets that came in.
And I'll never forget that first conference because I decided to go into the call-out rooms to see what was happening.
I walk into one call-out room.
People are blowing snot, crying, falling out.
I mean, because here's somebody saying things that only God and them knew.
Nobody else knew.
And it wasn't that they were exposing evil or anything.
It was just that God was speaking through a guy who didn't know them and told them things that only God knew.
Freaked people out.
And I'd go to the next room and the next room,
and it was the same phenomenon.
I said, oh my, something's happening.
So we began to do that.
Now, 30 years later, we do it.
It's one of the largest events of its kind in the nation.
And in that,
I met Prophet David because he's married,
the daughter of one of the individuals in our church,
Prophet John Harkey,
who became a prophet because of those prophetic conferences.
That got on him.
It was wild.
That's your father-in-law?
That's my father-in-law.
So he was actually at the very first one.
He was?
He was an usher.
That was an usher because his wife, my mother-in-law, was like,
Pastor, Dr. Morocco, you have to do something about my husband.
He's not living like he should.
And so he had like started serving as an usher.
And that prophetic conference, he got a prophetic word.
My wife, my future wife got a prophetic word and it's marked them for 30 years.
And my father-in-law now travels the nations 365 days a year doing the same thing that
happened 30 years ago at that conference.
He does it all over the world now, which is bomb if I do say so myself.
That's awesome.
And how I met him is that I went to Chile years ago with Dr. Cho,
the pastor of the world's largest church.
He'd invited me to travel with him.
I'm still on his church growth board, even though he's now in heaven.
And his father was my interpreter in Chile for that conference.
Right, and my father went, and he was just going because he had known Dr. Cho before,
translated for him in Spain before that.
And he was just showing up just to participate in the event.
And one of the organizing pastors came in like, oh, thank God you're here.
I need you to translate for someone.
My dad's like, I'm wearing a t-shirt.
I don't even have a Bible.
He grabbed a Bible from another pastor, gave it to my dad.
He said, there, go translate.
And so he goes on to translate, and it's for Dr. Brown.
And so we connected, and I invited him to come preach on Maui.
It was the first adopted church.
Yes.
And then later, God spoke to me.
To adopt them.
And they were the first people that we ever adopted.
Everything that's come out of Kings, all the churches all over the world, have all come out of Kings.
That was our first adoptee.
And God spoke to me specifically.
It's quite a story.
I won't take the time to tell it.
But that's how I got to know his son, Bruno.
And Bruno, this is exciting.
I asked him to come to lead our Spanish ministry in Maui, Hawaii.
You were there.
Well, this is...
What's funny about this is that I was in—my father brought me out to a conference in Maui,
and the doctor had said, I'd like for you to come to Dallas to help us open an extension in Dallas.
And I was like, I'm okay, because I was comfortable in my job.
My wife was getting her studies done and everything.
And I'm translating for somebody, and it was your extension breakfast,
where he had this breakfast for all the people that were off island.
And he's presenting, he goes,
there's Pastor Italo, my dad, over Chile.
And there's his son, and he's gonna help us
with our extension in Dallas.
And he just goes on, and I'm like, wait, what?
And there was a pastor that was sitting at our table.
She starts laughing.
I'm like, why are you laughing?
It's like, well, if Dr. Morocco said it,
it's because the Lord told him in prayer,
and you're gonna be part of Kings
and you're gonna go to Dallas.
I'm like, yeah, I don't think so.
But shortly afterwards, that's exactly what happened.
Really? What changed your mind?
Well, I was at a conference there with my wife,
and I just felt like the Lord said, do it.
And so I went right afterwards, spoke to Dr. Morocco,
and I wanted to, I knew I had to be obedient at the moment
or I would have made an excuse to not obey.
That's a good word.
And I went immediately, I told my wife, we're going to do this.
And Dr. Morocco was like, well, what needs to happen?
And I said, well, we need to sell our house,
and we need to, my wife has to finish her practice.
She was studying marriage and family therapy
and getting her master's degree.
And he's like, okay, so we set a date, and that's what we did.
And there's a whole lot of things that happened from that point on.
He was my first Spanish pastor in Dallas, and he organized a Spanish church while I had another pastor, Pastor Chris Davis, who did the English.
And then Pastor Chris moved on to do some other things, and you took over the whole work.
Right.
And then his father—
began to do works all through Europe for kings.
Right.
And so he became the pastor in Chile.
Right.
And he's done an incredible job.
The church is growing.
We have extensions throughout Chile.
And he's over now all of Latin America,
and we're opening churches all over Latin America.
So your one act of obedience would open up a series
of other doors afterward.
But you had, I thought that was such a good word.
He's like, I had to act quickly
because it's so easy you can talk yourself out of something
that God is clearly calling to.
And then you miss your window of opportunity.
And God can always reroute you back.
But obedience is very important.
The Bible says obedience is better than sacrifice.
And so-
That's true.
That happened to me.
Oh, tell us.
Maui, Dallas.
What would you choose?
Maui.
As someone who's a native Texan.
I was there 44 years.
Wow.
And God speaks to me, I want you to go to Dallas and start a hub.
I tried to remind him, I'm the global senior pastor of a very large church of thousands.
It didn't impress him at all.
And so the only thing I could do was I wrote a list of all the things he had to do if I was going to go.
He did every one of them.
So at that point, just as with Bruno, the issue was do I obey or disobey?
And I was 74 then.
It's not a good plan to disobey at 74.
You don't have much time to fix it.
So I came to Dallas.
I'm thankful he called me here.
I'm thankful God's doing the great work and everything.
And God's going to allow us out of Dallas to see many churches spawn all over the nation and all over the world.
I just flew to Indonesia.
We have about 200 pastors there.
And all over the nations of the world, things are happening.
So it's amazing.
See, that's another really good word though,
because most people when they're 74,
they want to be settled where they're at.
Yeah.
But don't want to be-
Don't want to start all over again.
Who wants to start over at 74?
No one wants to start over at 74.
And what I think about is,
one of the most important things with following Jesus
is being flexible enough, even as you get older,
which is harder when you get,
the older you get, the more settled you are, right?
Yeah, that's true.
But you have to remain flexible that if he says,
go here, you'll go.
And I mean, you had a great life and yet you were obedient.
And what I think about,
I heard someone say this yesterday on another podcast.
And she said, when God sees us,
he sees the generations after us.
And everything that we're doing, the decisions that He's having us make,
like the things He's calling us to do, affect, He says, all like 50 generations down the line.
And it hit me so profoundly.
I was like, wow.
Like, we might not understand, like, why am I enduring this?
Or why am I going here, this?
But He sees everything because He's outside of time.
And He knows what He's doing.
He's a good God.
So we keep referencing King's Cathedral for our audience.
Tell us what King's Cathedral is and how it's expanded out.
Well, in 1980, God called me to take a little church on Maui.
It was 100 people.
I remember that first time I preached on a Sunday morning.
It was interesting because the week before, the church
had called and said, would you be open to?
It was a small church, and I was pastoring
in a very large church in Honolulu,
part of a pastoral team.
I flew there on a Sunday night because I didn't know if it was God.
There were 30 people in church, which was a huge crowd because normally there was only 12.
Well, the following Sunday, I get a call from a board member and says, just called to congratulate you.
I said, congratulate me on what?
He said, we just elected you as our new pastor.
I said, I don't know if I want to be your pastor.
I'll tell you what I'll do.
I'll fast and pray for a week.
I'll come preach for you Sunday morning, and I'll let you know.
So I fasted and God gave me a vision of what he wanted to do on Maui, a massive church on a little island.
And to touch a world from there.
So I flew back on Sunday morning.
I preached on vision.
I did something I'd never heard anybody ever do.
At the end of the service, I gave everybody a ballot,
and I asked them to write yes or no on that ballot.
The reason being, I knew that if I had a vision,
but the people didn't have a vision,
I was going to be wasting my time, and I didn't need a job.
I was in a tremendous church in Honolulu.
Yeah.
So at the end of the service, they voted,
and I took their ballots because they had already elected me as their pastor,
but I didn't know if I should come.
And I counted the ballots.
It was overwhelmingly yes.
And so I knew they'd caught the vision.
And then I sat with the board of directors.
The church was very poor.
The entire income of the church for a whole year was $50,000.
That's all that came in.
And the interesting thing about it, out of that you paid the pastor,
all the missionaries, all the upkeep of the church.
They couldn't pay me what I was getting paid in Honolulu.
And one person gave one quarter of that entire amount.
So you never wanted to offend that one person,
you'd lose a quarter of your income.
And that was where we came.
And so, and I'm sitting there going,
Lord, how do we do this?
Well, I had to find out if they were gonna take
Steps of Faith, that board.
So I said to them, if I become your pastor,
I want you to hire me a full-time secretary.
Well, there was no church in Maui that had a full-time secretary, and they couldn't even pay me, let alone a secretary.
And it was real quiet.
Finally, one guy popped up and says, Pastor, whatever you want to do, that's what we're going to do.
Oh, wow.
And they chose to do that, even though they didn't have the money.
I said, okay, I'll be your pastor, because they passed the test.
Yeah.
People don't realize that a great church is not built
just by a great personality or by some person
who has some great charisma.
That'll last for a while,
but it won't build great churches.
It's the people with vision.
It's the board who's willing to take steps of faith,
even at their own personal risk.
And a pastor that's willing to lay it all down,
say, this is what we're going to do.
And we doubled the first Sunday in a year and a half.
We were at 1,000 people.
Wow.
We became one of the fastest growing churches in America.
Took over the largest facility on the island.
And from there, God had us become the pastor of the entire county, which is three islands.
I'd fly to another island every Sunday, plus preach on Maui.
And we did Maui, Molokai, and then we built the largest church building in the state, the cathedral.
Thanks.
Your mom and dad came to Maui when we were in the skating rink.
It was that first big facility, the largest facility on the island at the time before we built the cathedral.
And I remember your dad and mom so well.
They were young.
They were kids.
They were 20-something years old, just gotten married.
And they came, and he was the Bible man.
Yes.
You know, he memorized huge amounts of the Bible.
Very impressive.
And they preached for me at the skating rink.
And I sent them to Molokai.
That was a trip.
The fact that they survived and everything was great.
They still loved me.
You know, that was a miracle.
They passed that time.
And, of course, they've come many times over the years to the cathedral.
And I don't know if you had a chance to go with them, but it was always fun to have them.
I've heard of those stories for years.
I never got to go with them, but I've actually, because I've been to Maui,
I've seen your church every time I go there.
It's like you can't miss it.
You can't miss it.
It's not too much.
Yeah, it's like right as you land and as you're driving, you'll pass it.
Yeah, it's quite something.
God's doing a great work.
Since I come here, my son's taking over the work there.
He's already in the queue to take over everything.
He's the president.
I'm the global senior pastor, chairman of the board.
And he's doing a great work.
And we've got great leaders like Pastor Bruno and his dad.
He's over Latin America.
His dad's over Europe.
Oh, wow.
We've got people that are over the Far East and over, I mean, Africa and on and on and on.
And God is just...
My second daughter is over the world.
She travels and she also pastors in Missouri
and she's also a district official
for the Assemblies of God.
It's amazing what God's done.
And she's got a doctorate.
She's that kid really works.
My other daughter and her husband pastor
another church in Missouri as well.
And they're all Kings and it's happening.
Who could have dreamed it?
I mean, when I came to Maui,
It would have been the farthest thing that somebody could ever think that on a little island of 60,000 people he could touch the world.
But God can do a big thing anywhere he wants to.
What he's looking for is somebody crazy enough to believe him that he could do that.
That's such a good word.
And so Kings, out of the Maui church, like you were saying, it's expanded.
It's all over.
And that's where he's leading Kings in Chile as well as Latin America.
So you're planting multiple churches around the world.
Our goal, by the end of this year, every few years, God would give us a vision.
Five years ago, he gave us this vision, the 12-120 vision.
which is 1,200 congregations ministering to 120,000 people weekly by the end of this year.
Wow.
And so everything we do is...
We're trying to open as many things in Texas right now.
And we have numerous congregations that are starting to just pop open.
Now, these aren't life groups.
These aren't small groups.
These are congregations.
And some of them are language congregations.
Some of them are, you know, campuses.
It's amazing what he's done.
Wow.
So amazing.
How would you say the prophetic plays into what God is doing in the expansion and going global?
How do those things work together?
Ask these guys.
What do you think?
Well, I think it plays an integral part.
There's prophetic words that have shaped the direction of the church and expanded our vision
and has pushed us even to...
take steps of faith.
And I mean, I think of even just different times,
different prophets, pastor,
that have gone through the church.
I've even looked at our,
you have our vision right up there in the sanctuary
that you can see and be able to go, you know what?
God's gonna not only do this, He's gonna exceed.
And even giving little tidbits,
there's at times like words having to do with areas
that God is going to open and He's gonna give you this
or cities and He's prepared us even for moments
of other churches or people that were maybe gonna join kings
and be part of the family.
and has been preparing us beforehand for all those moments,
all those steps that we've taken.
And even for us as a church in Latin America, it's the same thing.
There's prophetic words that have been spoken over the different extensions
that just encourages.
One of the biggest things that I've seen that the pastors need
is just that encouragement.
I mean, a lot of these guys, I mean, they're out there and they're giving it their all.
And they're just trying the best they know.
And so we do, you know, we help them, we train them, give them tools.
But at the same time, it's just that encouragement.
And when they receive that, it becomes such a powerful and impacting thing.
It just, it changes.
It changes everything.
It changes their perspective.
And whereas maybe they were just under some kind of oppression and just, you know,
giving it their all, but not seeing the fruit that they like to see.
And then somebody comes along and doesn't know anything really about them,
but gives them a word that just, it just breaks everything.
It just, they just come out of that, like ready to conquer the world.
And it has really helped to strengthen the churches.
And I, and I, I mean, I live that.
I see that.
in all the areas that we're at.
And we've even received words of,
I see at times like even had somebody
that doesn't know anything at all
as far as the geography of the city of Santiago,
the capital city, and giving a specific area.
I see the Lord opening an area here in this area
and which where my wife and I were praying about it.
Oh, wow.
Sorry, I'm gonna cry.
Oh, I cry every time when I hear God's presence.
You're in good territory here.
And just like, nobody else really knew,
but it was something that my wife and I
had been praying about.
And we're looking at where the different people
that come to our church come from.
We're like, this would be a good area.
So here's this guy, I mean, he's a friend,
but he doesn't know anything.
I haven't commented this to him at all.
And he comes and he says,
I see the Lord opening in this area.
And it's just like...
you're just like, oh wow, this is amazing.
And so it absolutely will open up just areas of,
I think it just helps build your faith and like, okay,
then that's the direction we can go in.
And you start taking steps of faith in that direction.
And okay, who are the leaders?
And you start coming up with a plan
and a strategy to see that happen.
And I've seen that happen so many times.
And even just even words of, I mean, famous words that we repeat even of like,
finances will be the least of your concerns, you know, because there'll be so much finances.
And it'll be opening.
And we'll be saying that when we're like in huge need.
the financial need, the word that was given to us was this,
finances will be the least of our concern.
So even in our moments of prayer,
we're repeating these things of like,
this is what you said, Lord.
And so we use it to just even battle
and just to contend to see His kingdom come
and be established here on earth.
And so I think definitely has a major, major impact
on our life and church and ministries for sure.
And I actually want to get into your story.
I'm going to get into both of your stories, Bruno,
because, I mean, it's incredible.
So you are in Chile now, but you grew up in the Canary Islands,
which is an island which is located between Spain and Morocco.
Yeah, it's closer to North Africa, right?
Yeah.
I mean, wow.
I don't think I've met anyone from there.
First of all, your grandfather was one of Mussolini's bodyguards?
Yes.
So tell us that transformation story.
Yeah, well, my dad always says this,
but he wasn't a very good bodyguard, right?
Because they ended up capturing Mussolini.
But my whole side on my dad,
the Frigoli side were all military.
And he was one of the top military, typical Alpine,
could ski and shoot and do the whole thing.
And was one of the bodyguards.
He was supposed to meet Mussolini on one side of a lake.
At the last minute, he changed his mind,
went a different way.
So they're waiting for him and people come out
and they tell my grandfather, and I can't remember,
I think it was like 20, 30 men,
"'You better run, they've captured him.
"'You better go.'"
And they thought it was a trap.
Like, well, no, our last orders were to stay here.
And so he ends up getting captured,
was in a concentration camp in Yugoslavia.
And it was just him and a Catholic priest that walked out.
And he comes back home and everything's like destroyed.
And they have this kind of kangaroo court
where they wanna kill him.
And they say, if anybody wants to say anything in his favor,
you know, raise your hand.
And so somebody pointed out
that there had been some losses in the family.
But somebody raises his hand and he says,
during the war, a mayor of one of the towns
had been shot and his body was just left in the street.
And even though it was on the opposing side,
my grandfather made sure that he was treated with dignity.
Well, this was his son that was raising his hand.
So they said, okay, we'll let you go,
but if we capture you again, we'll kill you.
So he went from Italy to Argentina to Bariloche, which is where my father was born.
And he was a mean drunk.
He was very violent.
My father, when he was young, would have to go to the neighbor's house.
And my grandfather was just super violent.
And so my grandmother said, you know what?
I'm done with this.
I'm not going to.
I don't want to be with you anymore.
And was threatening divorce.
And so he decides to go to Bolivia.
And he thinks, well, maybe I have my drinking buddies.
That's why I'm drinking.
I'm going to go there.
And he worked at a wood mill.
One day he's coming back home.
And these two missionary ladies are on a Jeep.
And they give him a ride.
And he gets home.
And he realizes that he forgot his jacket in the Jeep.
Knows what church it was.
And they said, well, come to church.
And we'll give it to you.
So he showed up at church,
it was a little Assemblies of God church,
and sat through the service,
couldn't find the missionary ladies,
came to the next service.
Well, in one of those, he gets saved.
And from the one day to the next,
he completely stopped, doesn't drink any more alcohol.
I mean, it's just complete transformation.
And my grandmother thinks that he's just pretending
because he doesn't want me to leave.
So she comes to church with him
to kind of see what it's all about.
She ends up receiving the Lord,
and then my father and my aunt and my uncle.
end up also receiving the Lord.
And over time, he becomes a pastor,
and then he becomes a missionary,
and then planting churches and Bible schools
in Peru and Argentina and in different places, in Bolivia.
And he's part of a great movement with the Symbols of God.
There was a time where they planted over 300 churches in one year.
Wow.
And just God used him absolutely mightily, for sure.
And great, great legacy.
And then on my mom's side, they also come from missionaries.
My grandfather on my mom's side was the typical missionary, the hard hat in the jungle, you know, with a machete and that kind of a thing.
And Panama and Nicaragua and those kind of areas.
And just get lost in the jungle.
And, you know, they had no way to keep in touch with him.
And you just go off and just preach the gospel to...
wherever people that he would find and would come back after time.
And so great legacy on both sides, having to do with missions and just the Lord.
So what about you? What got you—how'd you end up in ministry?
Obviously, the Lord called you, but what was your own story?
So I grew up—I was born in Bolivia, but I grew up about six months old.
My family, my parents went to the Canary Islands, Spain.
And that's where I grew up.
When I was eight years old, I felt called to the full-time ministry.
Actually, it was at a missionary conference, and they were having that in Black Forest, Germany.
And I still remember it to this day.
Sorry.
It's like I lost all track of time.
I still remember the youth pastor was preaching
and I just know at the end,
I just had this encounter with the Lord
that just really marked me.
And I remember telling my parents,
I feel called to full-time ministry.
And of course they were overjoyed.
And I grew up at that time, the Canary Islands was the center point of witchcraft for Europe.
Really?
So our services were quite, could sometimes be very, very wild.
And so I grew up knowing the power and the presence of the Lord.
I really think that that protected me all the days of my life,
because there were sometimes opportunities to maybe leave the Lord, go to the world,
all these kind of different things.
But I remember thinking, like, I've seen too much.
Yeah.
I've experienced too much to kind of...
I'd have to pretend like that didn't happen,
pretend like I never saw blind eyes open
or that I never felt God's presence
or that He never spoke to me.
And I'm like, I could never do that.
It just really, really marked me.
And so just from a young age, I just...
I just had that sense of, I remember being at a,
just even at a retreat, my parents would do,
we'd rent out a monastery that was up at the mountain
somewhere and we'd do retreats
and just feeling God's presence.
And not even knowing, like I was telling my dad, like,
And I feel like my hands are on fire and all these things.
And I just grew up with just wanting to know the Lord
and just with a love for the Lord.
And that's just whatever He wanted for me.
And just wanted to walk with Him and talk with Him.
And that was something that for me was a major, major part of my life.
And even growing up in Spain, the school that I went to,
it's called the American School of Las Palmas.
And there's a lot of different ethnic groups that were there.
And it was definitely much of the minority because of my faith.
But even then, it was just like, it didn't even matter to me.
I'd have, we later became friends, but I've, I've,
some classmates that were of different religions
that would spit on me and stuff like that
because of my faith.
But it's just like, it didn't even matter.
It's like the Lord was so real.
Just walking with Him was such a real thing for me.
that none of that stuff even mattered.
We later became very good friends,
but it just marked me.
And so it was like, okay, Lord,
whatever you'd have for me.
And I remember, so then I grew up in Spain
and when I was about 15 years old or so,
my father feels a call to go to Chile.
And so by the time we get to Chile
and do a lot of translation, about 18 years old,
And so I did my senior year there and spent a couple years there.
Was that transition hard?
It was. It was very hard because I would typically be in the mission field for about four years,
then go to the States for a year, raise funds, come back.
Man, you were all over the place.
So I would go and just—I remember saying to my friends, I loved my church family.
I loved my school where I was at.
And so I just remember going like, okay, I'll see you guys in a year.
And we'll see you while it's during that time that this comes,
that my father senses that the Lord is calling us to Chile.
And so I never felt like I had the chance to go back and say goodbye or do any of that closure.
And so my brother, I'm the oldest, I have a brother and a young sister.
I mean, we had like our whole collection of like Lego Star Wars and stuff like that.
My parents just give everything away and we're like,
What are you doing?
You know, like all this stuff, you know,
and just never had that.
So yeah, it was difficult.
And of course you didn't have the technology
then even be in touch like today.
And, but even going to Chile, it was just like,
okay, Lord, whatever it is that you have,
then let's, I just,
I just wanna obey you.
I just wanna see people impacted.
And God really began to just do even a mighty work there
and see people's lives changed and transformed
and impacted by the power of the Spirit.
I think there's just nothing like that.
I mean, there's moments too,
even after like prophetic moments that I'll just sit and cry
and just like, it's just overwhelmed by His goodness
and the fact that I get to be a part of that.
And there's moments even that we'll have a power conference.
I think it was even last year, I'm like,
I'm so overwhelmed, like calling Dr. Morocco.
I'm like, I just, just thank you.
You know, that I get to be part of Kings
and be part of the family.
I love that so much.
Anyways.
And you would end up pastoring in Chile.
Yeah, it's such an amazing thing.
We were in Dallas for about six years,
ended up going to Chile.
and coming into a difficult situation that the church was going through at the time,
and just see the hand of the Lord even there in His grace.
There's just things I like.
Part of King's and the DNA's prayer, and I look at our church and I'm like, we shouldn't be here.
It should just not, it should not have existed.
It shouldn't be there.
It shouldn't.
There's no reason for it to, it should have completely, I don't know, died.
But to see, it's just that there's a church that prays.
It's the praying.
I'd have people from different pastors, like our pastor, like Marshallese Church, Pastor Dotson would call me and he's like, hey, I want you to know we're praying for you.
And so, yeah, we started pastoring
and just seeing God bring restoration and bring healing
and to see what it is today
and where we started from is just, it's only the Lord.
It's only Him.
I mean, it's just, I just try to listen to His voice
and just obey and that's it.
You know, his pastor's emphasis on prayer is,
In 1984, my father pastored, started two major churches in India where I was born.
What?
Yeah, and he spoke seven languages.
What?
And then the third term as a missionary, instead of going back to India, went to the Philippines.
And he pastored the largest church in the Philippines
for many years and then turned it over to David Summerall,
who now pastors it today.
But, and David's done a great job.
That's Lester Summerall's grand nephew.
And what happened is that dad and mom
were great prayer warriors.
Well, they joined my staff in 1984.
I'd been on Maui for four years.
He starts an early morning prayer meeting
from 5.30 to 6.30.
That prayer meeting has gone unstopped.
Really?
For 41 years.
It's the only reason we're still around.
There would be no church in Chile,
there'd be no church on Maui,
there'd be no church anywhere.
That has been the key of everything we've done.
And in fact, my relationship with Dr. Cho
You know how that came about?
My dad traveled to Korea and preached for Dr. Cho
when his church was only 5,000 people.
And he was the only evangelist that got up for early morning prayer meetings.
that Cho had, you know.
It was like what at four in the morning or something?
Four in the morning.
And dad would get up freezing cold
and go to the prayer meeting.
And he had a powerful move of God,
the Holy Spirit moved on that church.
Well, fast forward in 1983,
he comes, Cho comes to my church on Maui.
We were having a church growth conference and he came
and he gets up and he says this,
He says, I'm not here because of this pastor.
He says, I'm here because of his dad.
I'm repaying a debt.
And then he invites me to be on his board.
And the largest churches in the world were on his board.
And you feel like you're a kid in a candy shop,
just overwhelmed by the tremendous people
you get to talk to.
And I sat next to Oral Roberts and he was sharing with me
all the money he had to raise as we were flying
to some place to have a retreat
with all these great leaders.
It's been overwhelming.
And it was just simply the favor of God.
And dad started that prayer meeting
He was there two years, died.
He's buried on Maui.
But that thing has been the thing that has kept us.
And every king's is marked by prayer.
And so that's a part of the culture in the church.
It has to be.
You can't be kings every morning.
What would you say to pastors and people personally?
What kind of prayer life should they have in the church?
What should the personal prayer life look like?
Well, my dad wrote something in my Bible when I was a young man.
He said, if a minister of the gospel doesn't pray two hours a day, he's not worth a dime.
You're the second person I've heard that from in the last two days.
It's that much time.
And so what happened, I read that years ago.
So I said, I'm going to pray two hours a day.
And then I got with Dr. Cho, and we were in Chile.
I'll never forget.
And he says to me, he says, in his broken English, he says, I'm going to pray five hours today.
Because the meetings aren't going like I planned them in.
So I'm going to pray five hours.
And then he shares about the fact that every place in our world, there's a spiritual reality of demonic power.
Doesn't care where you are.
Some it's very thick.
Some it's thin.
So you, you breakthroughs are easy.
And it's a spiritual temperature.
And if, and when he goes to a place where the spiritual temperature is very difficult, he,
You have to pray more.
Some people don't even have that knowledge.
They don't have a clue.
And, but that's real.
It's very real.
And what God has done for us as kings is that he has,
I just thank God dad came and joined my staff
and I'm thankful that we've kept it going.
So here in Dallas, we have a six o'clock
in the morning prayer time and a seven.
And the key, now this is, you asked the question about
why is this so important for a local pastor?
Pastors pray, and I don't know how long they pray,
but they did a survey years ago
that saw the pastors didn't pray at all, hardly.
I think it was five or 10 minutes a day, which is the norm.
Because you're used to preparing a message, do your thing.
Prayer is kind of a side thing.
But however long you pray, continue to pray,
and hopefully you'll pray a good amount of time.
But that's not the key for a church.
I mean, it's a key for you personally in your labor.
But the thing that I've noticed
is there's got to be corporate prayer.
Where two of you shall agree, Jesus says.
That corporate prayer is like a shield.
Over the church.
And if you don't have that corporate prayer,
and you don't have a prayer culture in your church,
you are waiting for a disaster to take you out.
Mm-hmm.
That's all I can say.
And I've warned pastors.
Wow.
In some of the largest churches that have lost so much,
you realize some of the great churches that were in the 80s
aren't even around today.
Mm-hmm.
Same with the 90s.
What keeps the church strong?
You go to Korea, to Cho's Church.
I'll never forget it.
In the service.
We're up in the upper balconies.
First time there.
They have what they call a concert of prayer.
Everyone in the church is praying full voice.
They're shaking their hands.
I mean, they're moving into a realm that few churches have ever even seen, let alone done.
And that'll go on for as long as the pastor on the stage allows it.
And they'll go on for hours that way.
He'll ring a bell, they'll all shut down, and they'll go on with the service.
So I bought the bell.
I figured if that works for them, there's only one problem.
I have it on my stage in Maui.
I've only rung it twice because the—
You ring bells to wake people up in church in America.
You don't have to worry about them praying too long.
And so, but that's crucial, that prayer life in the service, prayer life.
And the one thing that was so amazing, I took a team to Korea.
They're staying across the street.
Now, this across the street from the church.
in a hotel room.
At four in the morning, they're awakened
by the people praying inside the church.
Wow.
And they're across the street.
They got up and they went to the prayer meeting.
That is so powerful.
We don't have a clue.
You'll notice worldwide the churches that are taking over nations in Africa, in Asia,
and are churches that have found the secret of prayer.
When Paul says pray continually, he meant it.
So I always get convicted because I want my prayer life to be strong.
And I'm just thankful I've got people in my church that will pray.
I didn't mean to interrupt you there.
Oh, no, not at all, Pastor.
No, so good.
So did you finish your point?
I think I did.
Okay, then I want to move to you now, David,
because we're talking about the power of prayer
and obviously operate in the prophetic,
but you experienced church hurt at a young age.
but God would take up all that pain and redeem it.
And there's this beautiful story.
And it's kind of like what the enemy meant for evil,
God used for good.
But basically you grow up in a Baptist home
and your parents end up getting filled with the spirit.
So let's start there.
Yeah, so we were a good Baptist family.
So my mom went to college at Bob Jones University.
So that's a very strict conservative Bible college.
I don't think they were allowed to wear jeans until like 2001.
They may still not be able to.
And we're just very, very strict family.
I grew up listening to Chuck Swindoll, Charles Stanley,
doing the whole thing.
And then my parents were, my father
was a deacon in the church, and it was awesome.
And then what ended up happening though,
is they went on a spiritual retreat to California,
which of course all the best spiritual retreats
are in California, you know?
And I remember they came home,
they picked us up from a pastor's house
and we're just driving home and they're real quiet.
And if you know my parents, they're very communicative.
They love to communicate, but they were quiet
and they were hushed whispers up front in the front seat.
And I remember we were driving up to our house
and as we're approaching the house,
they start speaking in a language
that I had never heard them speak.
And they start speaking in tongues,
but I don't know that's what it is.
And so they're speaking and it gets louder
and louder and louder.
And so I just look at my brother, I was like,
you know those exorcism movies we weren't allowed to watch,
but did anyways, I think this is that situation.
So we're gonna have to roll out of this minivan
and just go live in the woods somewhere, right?
I remember they come running out of this van,
they run into the front door of our house.
And my brother and I are just standing there in the yard,
watching them chuck all this stuff out of our home.
And as you probably would imagine, right, Asian households,
we have a lot of things that have dragons on them
and symbols.
And so that was at that moment where I realized
their spiritual retreat was like
a for real spiritual retreat.
And so they started doing something called
spiritual house cleaning.
Everything that was tied to the demonic or anything
just kicked it out of the house, even if it was just cultural.
And I just remember that season of my life
being introduced to the Holy Spirit
in a way that was really kind of getting thrown
into the deep end.
You know, and my parents did the best that they could,
but my first Holy Ghost filled,
Dr. you'll appreciate this.
My first Holy Ghost Spirit filled service I ever went to
was a mass deliverance service.
Oh no.
I'm rolling into Trinity Church in Hudson Valley, New York.
And I walk in there and I see people levitating on balconies.
I see people like getting rid of demons and everything.
And I look at my parents and I was like, what have you done?
And of course we got kicked out of our Baptist church.
And I just remember that season of my life
feeling the rejection of people
that I'd spent my whole life with.
These were people that I would sleep over at their homes.
I would play with their children.
And now it felt like what the Holy Spirit had done with my family had now made me the source of rejection.
And it really affected me in a lot of ways, right?
So...
I go live my own life.
I do this whole thing.
And then I have this powerful encounter with God
at a youth camp, right?
So I'm like a cautionary tale in my hometown, right?
So I like to call myself the dumpster fire
of Hudson Valley, New York, right?
I did some things. I mean, long story short, like for me, I was responsible for every purity conference one summer in 2004 within 150 mile radius. I had just hit rock bottom. And I just remember going to this, my Asian mom was like, you're 16 years old. I still own you. So I'm sending you to church camp, right? And yeah.
Wait, you did the purity conferences, but you were not living for the Lord?
I was the cause of the purity conferences.
So at 16 years old, I had been living a double life.
I was going to a private high school.
I was National Honor Society.
I was doing all these things.
But on the other side of this, I was a hard partier.
I was in the black market UPS logistics business, right?
I was doing stuff that I wasn't supposed to, and I was partying heavy.
And I remember...
My girlfriend at the time, she calls me and goes,
you're going to be a dad at 16 years old.
And that was like a weird part for me
because it was in that moment
where the first thing that came out of my mouth was,
I told out of my mouth, I said, I have to live.
And I had no idea why I said that in the moment.
And then it became very real to me
that all of the things that I thought I was doing
to make myself happy was actually me doing actions
to try to end my life because of the rejection
that I had experienced as a child.
And I didn't think I was worth anything.
And so I was doing all of these things unconsciously, trying to leave a world that I didn't think I belonged in.
Wow.
And it was incredible because then here I am expecting to be a father.
And I realized that I can't leave.
I'm about to be a dad.
I have to figure this out.
So it was in that moment where I didn't figure it out well.
I got very angry, super bitter, but my mom was like,
listen, I still own you.
You're still a minor.
You're going to church camp.
And I'm like, just send me to jail.
I don't wanna go to church camp.
Like homeschoolers go there.
It's a mess, right?
And I just remember that God speaks to me
for the first time in that church camp.
And he tells me this, he says, David,
you think that you've destroyed your life
where no one can fix it.
But if you give me your life right now,
what I'm gonna do is I'm not only gonna fix
what you think can never be fixed,
but I'm gonna give you a future
that you could have never imagined."
For the next three hours,
he starts showing me visions and pictures
of the things that I would do,
the people that I would minister in front of.
And I just remember laying under that anointing
and feeling like a crazy person
because I couldn't get up off the floor.
And in spite of all of my doubt, all of my fears,
saying there's no possible way,
the Holy Spirit was just like,
you just have to say yes, I'll take care of the rest.
And so that's what I did.
And that prophetic encounter was incredible
because it helped me understand that
even though I've had experienced rejection from people
who are supposed to release and impart
the heart of the Father to me, but didn't do a good job,
Even in spite of that, the heart of the Father was that He loved me and wanted to redeem me.
It was a really amazing time. It was incredible.
But I still had that pain there.
And a lot of times, I love the testimonies.
I have friends that have the testimonies where they get saved.
And their addiction to drugs is gone.
Like they're like, they're applied for sainthood.
It's incredible, right?
That's not my experience.
I came into that camp, a dumpster fire of a mess.
I left a little bit less of a dumpster fire,
but still on fire, right?
So you come out of the church camp, still a dumpster fire.
Still a dumpster fire.
Still broken, needing healing, inner healing.
Oh yeah.
Sanctification, which we all do.
A hundred percent.
And so that's what ended up happening
was I ended up joining that church
that had the church camp.
And that was your church?
No, it was actually a different church
in upstate New York.
But it was a local church.
It was a local church.
And just basically what happened in that moment
was I plugged in how I could,
but I remember wanting to dedicate my daughter
at that church, right?
And I remember having a meeting with this pastor
and the pastor just said,
son, I don't think we can do it.
What?
Yeah, and I just remembered going,
well, what do you mean, pastor?
Like I'm plugged in and everything.
I just wanna dedicate my child.
And he goes, well, you had a child out of wedlock.
And even though God loves this child,
I can't have you in good conscious stand up there
with your daughter and dedicate.
And it didn't make sense to me at the time.
And even now it doesn't make sense to me.
But I just remember having that pain revisit me
all over again.
The rejection.
From the church.
Oh yeah, and so it was crazy.
But what God ended up doing in that moment
was he shared with me, he says,
David, I'm gonna move you from New York
and I want you to go to a small little Bible college
in Northwest Florida over in Destin.
And I'm gonna teach you to become something
that you won't understand.
And it was in that moment where me broken, battered,
still angry, battling with rejection.
I go to this Bible college and God meets with me there.
He actually sends me this amazing prophet
who was on staff there, calls me,
God gives him my phone number, calls me out of the blue
and says, David Fang, God gave me your number.
And he wanted me to tell you
that if you'll stay your destiny's here.
And I just remember experiencing that moment.
I was like, okay, I'll stay.
And that prophet for the next 15 years of my life
began to pour into me, took me to all of the nations
and taught me what it was to become a prophet,
which was incredible.
But how I got rid of my church hurt was because,
sometimes you can minister and still be wounded.
Yes.
You can be very effective, you think in your own mind, but you still have that hurt on the inside of you.
And I remember on a trip, I was on a trip to Taiwan and I was like crushing it on this trip.
I'm just telling you, people were crying.
I was like, oh my gosh, this is awesome.
And this prophet looks at me and he goes, David, can you give me the definition of a false prophet?
Okay.
And so I was like, a definition of a false prophet,
will they give an improper word?
He goes, yeah, that's true.
They don't have the, they have personal motives and agendas.
You know, and he goes, yeah, that's true.
And I just remember that moment he pauses
and he looks at me, he goes, David,
could a false prophet be as easy as someone
who says I love you, but in their heart doesn't mean it.
And that rocked me.
because I realized that all of that ministry I was doing,
I was still angry and upset at the very church
I was called to minister to.
Wow.
And I just remember weeping and crying,
saying, God, forgive me.
How could I have carried your voice within me
and have this brokenness on the inside of me?
And God just embraced me in that moment.
And He just said, son, I've been waiting for this moment.
Everything up until this moment is so that I could heal you.
And I just remember him mending my heart and just saying, you just got to forgive.
And I didn't understand it, but I just said, I forgive.
And out of that moment, God imparted such a love for me, for people.
that I never thought about church hurt ever again.
There are people that will mistreat me even now in ministry.
I mean, you could be in a church
and you'll get hurt at least five or six times.
It doesn't even register with me anymore
because God showed me not only His heart for me,
but He showed me His heart for other people.
And it just wrecked me.
So ever since then,
we're just rocking this prophetic ministry,
getting it going.
And would you say guys that with a prophet,
because I've interviewed a couple of them,
the difference between someone,
because people can have prophetic gifting,
like anyone in the church, I think,
can operate in prophetic gifting,
but a prophet, one person that I interviewed,
he says a prophet, the gift can always act.
It's not like, you know, like if someone in a moment has a prophetic unction of a prophetic gift, but I can't stand in front of anyone and just prophesy.
But if you're a prophet, you can kind of stand in front of anyone and the gift can flow.
Would you agree with that?
Or how would you define the difference between the two?
Well, I think there's offices in the body of Christ.
One of those offices is the office of prophet.
That doesn't mean that a person who is a pastor can't be a prophet.
He's a pastor and he's a prophet.
Those two gifts or two offices operate together.
It's like a pastor-teacher.
A pastor could be a pastor and a teacher.
An apostle, he could be a pastor and an apostle.
Or an evangelist.
I've seen pastors that are evangelists.
There are gift mixes.
But there are specific offices where God says, okay, I want you to do this and I want you to do this.
I want you to operate in that area.
And...
All of us can prophesy.
It's a part of the gifts of the Spirit.
And I believe the potential of every gift of the Spirit
can operate in us.
There are impartations, just like your father-in-law
had an impartation at those prophetic conferences.
And that's what God has released him to do.
But he's also evangelist, he's had great meetings.
What I've found is,
as you honor the offices,
in the body of Christ, the fruit of those offices
then can start to operate, not only within the church,
but within the people that are part of that church.
Oh, wow.
And so it's very important.
The moment we started prophetic conferences,
prophets have been raised up in our church
that were never prophets before.
His father-in-law is one of them, all of my pastors.
I got pastors now that all prophesy.
And they go to, now we do these regional,
and four, well, three of the five prophets are my pastors.
And one is his father-in-law that'll be there.
So, and he's kings through and through.
Through and through.
And one day we'll probably kidnap him.
That's right.
You're here first.
He's in all of our prophetic conferences.
I will tell you, it is the most profound thing in these prophetic conferences.
I don't think I've ever seen.
a ministry that partners with the prophetic the way it does.
And I'll tell you, the concentration of prophets that get raised out of that ministry
is unlike anything I have ever seen before.
And I think that is because I don't necessarily,
I don't think you can really become the fullness of a prophet
unless you allow yourself to be pastored the way that the people of Kings do.
And it's that combination of all of the offices working together
that just really make it work, you know, and it's incredible.
That's what I like hearing just from hearing
not only the international, the global reach,
but also how all those offices are working together
in the power of prayer.
You're really seeing just the biblical.
definition of the church living out in real time.
And I think this is just such a powerful conversation
to have because there's so much more for the church,
even here in America, that they haven't even tapped into yet
that they can tap into if they would embrace these things.
What would your advice be to a pastor
to have the five offices in their church
and to raise up people into that office?
First, they got to believe that those things exist.
And you still have many Pentecostal churches that don't even allow a prophetic conference to happen.
And yet they're Pentecostal.
They believe in the gifts of the Spirit.
Some people limit what the Holy Spirit can do.
For example, you have Pentecostal denominations that don't believe there's such a thing as quote-unquote apostles or prophets or evangelists.
The only thing they have is pastors.
Yeah.
Well, if that's what you believe, then you cannot have, it's according to your faith be it done unto you.
If you don't have faith to believe that, you can't.
So that's number one.
Number two is go to places or go to events where you see the gift operating.
And then thirdly, believe for impartations that will come.
And then fourthly, you have to take the steps of faith
because if you'll notice in Romans 12,
every gift that's marked in Romans 12,
there's a little phrase, it's only said one time,
prophesy and it says according to your faith.
Well, that verse, that little phrase
is really repeated all over.
It just isn't repeated every time.
But he does it the first time, and he's saying, okay, if it's the gift of giving, according to your faith.
If it's the gift of vows, according to faith.
So you grow in your gifting.
It may start, but to grow, there are prophets that are, how would I say, more mature prophets, prophets that are seasoned prophets, and there are prophets that are just beginning.
Yeah.
What would your—two questions and then we'll wrap.
What would your advice be for someone to grow in their gifting?
Well, I'd say the same thing.
I'd say they have to get into a church where those gifts operate.
It's hard to grow in a gifting.
Oh, and find out what your gift is.
There's so many ways.
How do you find that out?
Good question.
I'll tell you what you do.
Well, you guys can all chip in.
I don't know if you're the only one talking.
Master Bruno.
What you find out is simply this.
You try a lot of things.
You know, you really do.
That's a good word.
And then there begins to be something that you begin to be passionate about.
This is what you do.
You know, if you would have asked me years ago when I first got in the ministry that I'd be doing what I'm doing now, I thought I was going to be a professor on a college campus.
Really?
Because I was on the college campus witnessing for Jesus when I was in my freshman and sophomore year.
I didn't have, I thought, I'm going to be a professor on the college campus so I can be on the campus to witness that way.
Right.
So I go to USC, do a master's degree in ancient history
so I could be a professor on the college campus.
On my way to a PhD, one guy says,
I didn't call you to be a professor.
I called you to be a pastor.
So then I go to graduate school,
get another master's and a doctorate in that realm.
Well, I didn't see that at the beginning,
although I had a passion for people.
I love to teach the word, but that, you know,
you go where you felt like you're fruitful.
And at that time I was fruitful on the college campus,
but God saw something way beyond.
And that's what He does, so.
And then that leads actually to my final question.
Any of you can hop in on this
because all three of you have mentioned
how you've been led by God by hearing His voice.
How does someone hear the voice of God?
I think it starts obviously with a relationship with Him.
And Jesus says that my sheep hear my voice,
they'll know my voice, they'll recognize it.
I think it's spending time in the Word,
it's spending time in His presence.
I think it's also something
that we've been talking about too.
There's a health when you're connected to the local body.
Sometimes when people kind of separate themselves, that's where you get a lot of the weird just thinking, theology.
It's just being connected that really helps you remain healthy.
And just start asking the Lord, like seek to hear His voice.
I think there's a thing where a lot of times we want to hear...
Well, we want to hear what we want to hear, but then also we want to hear on our own timetable.
And it's really dedicating time to cultivate that, cultivate that ear to just sit and just stop whatever it is that you're doing and just say, okay, Lord, I'm here.
I'm just going to enjoy your presence.
whatever you wanna say to me, I'll have a notebook,
I'll have a pen and just start writing those things down.
And as you begin to do that,
you begin to hone your senses more.
What I encourage our people to do is
I'll have them write a question
that they're really seeking the Lord on something,
seeking in the word and in relationship with others.
They'll write it in a certain color ink in a notebook.
And then whatever impression they're having from the Lord,
they'll write that in a different color.
And so that's what they're writing.
And then they have a third color that has to do with time.
Like, was I right?
Was I not?
What am I learning from this?
And it's just cultivating that and coming from a place that he wants to communicate more with me than I could ever possibly want to, you know, could hear from him.
Sometimes we have more, we get more hung up on our ability to hear or not hear.
I turn that around and I'm like, Lord, you know how to reach my heart better than anybody.
You know me better than anybody else knows me.
And I just trust in the fact that you want to speak to me,
that you want to speak to my children,
that you want to speak to my family, to the church,
to the nation.
And so I'm just, I'm trusting more in His ability
to reach me than any, sometimes if you get all stressed
and I, you know, we're more focused on ourselves,
it tends to muddy the waters.
It tends to make things more difficult.
And so when I trust more in His ability,
it becomes a lot easier to really receive
what He has to say.
I would say those are some of the things.
Obviously walking with the Lord
and building that relationship.
I think, I mean, you covered it very well.
I think the only things that I would maybe add is
the Psalmist writes in the book of Psalms, he says,
"'How numerous are your thoughts towards me, O God.
"'When I wake up in the morning, you're there.
"'When I go to sleep at night, you're there.
The number one thing that you have to understand
is that God wants to talk to you.
He wants to surround you with His thoughts.
And when you change your mindset to just being,
not someone that's tolerated,
but someone that He's seeking to communicate with,
it changes everything.
Second thing is this, is that prophet Samuel,
before he was a prophet, he's a child.
He hears the voice of the Lord,
but he doesn't know how to discern the voice of the Lord.
He needs someone to tell him what he's hearing
and how to respond.
If I could give an encouragement
is get into a local church.
Don't necessarily go to a prophetic church,
go to a healthy local church
that knows how to cultivate the giftings in people
and just plant yourself there, submit to the process,
don't get offended, let the process work on you.
And so when you have that combination of those things,
what happens is the promotion happens,
the depths of your giftings begin to flow.
And it happens inspired by the Holy Spirit,
which is the best you can do, you know?
And the thing about that is it sets you up
for the long haul.
It's not a short term.
I have so many friends that are gifted prophetically
and they flame out inside of 18, 24 months.
but we're talking about a God that looks at generations.
And I think if you have those keys
and like what we're mentioning here,
man, you're set up to set the next generation,
kind of like what you said.
You know, the decisions of one generation
builds for the next.
And I think that's what you get.
Well, this has been such a great conversation.
You guys will have to come back
because there's so much more I want to ask,
but we're out of time.
Thank you all for being here
and just love what you guys are doing
and just keep going.
Appreciate it so much.
Thank you so much. Absolutely.