>> HEY, GUYS. WELCOME BACK TO THE PODCAST. BEFORE WE DIVE IN
WITH OUR INCREDIBLE GUESTS, I DO WANT TO REMIND YOU, PLEASE,
IF YOU'RE LISTENING AND YOU LIKE THIS PODCAST, SUBSCRIBE,
COMMENT, LIKE, AND WHAT? >> HIT THE NOTIFICATION BELL.
>> YES, BECAUSE IT REALLY HELPS WITH THE PODCAST. IT HELPS GET
THE WORD OUT. WE SUPER, WE SUPER -- WE SO APPRECIATE IT.
>> WE SUPER APPRECIATE IT. >> AND WITHOUT -- WE SUPER
APPRECIATE IT. AND WITHOUT FURTHER ADO, SO FORMAL, WE HAVE
THE GIBSONS HERE. WHOO! >> WE'RE EXCITED. >> THANKS FOR
HAVING US. WHAT AN HONOR. >> THANKS FOR COMING BACK. I
MEAN, IT WAS SO MUCH FUN. JONATHAN WAS LIKE, WE SHOULD
HAVE BRIAN AND JESSE ON. THIS IS THE LOVELY COUPLE. SO YEAH.
THAT'S GREAT. >> WELL, WHAT STARTED THAT
WHOLE CONVERSATION WAS WE GOT TO HAVE LUNCH AFTER, AND I
LOVED HAVING YOUR WIFE WITH US AND GETTING HER PERSPECTIVE ON
THINGS. AND THEN WE FOUND OUT THAT YOU GUYS ACTUALLY WROTE A
BOOK TOGETHER. >> OH, YEAH.
>> OKAY, SO TOGETHER CALLED LOVE HANDLES.
>> WHICH I WAS LIKE THE GREATEST TITLE I'VE
EVER HEARD. >> THAT ALONE IS THE BEST TITLE
BOOK I'VE EVER HEARD. >> IN THAT MOMENT, I WAS LIKE,
THESE ARE MY PEOPLE. I WAS LIKE, JUST SOLIDIFIED IT FOR ME. I
WAS LIKE, THAT'S INCREDIBLE. WHO CAME UP WITH THAT NAME?
>> IT WAS ACTUALLY A FRIEND OF OURS, A FRIEND OF OURS FOR
YEARS AND YEARS. BRIAN'S PROBABLY GOING TO TRY TO TAKE
CREDIT, BUT HE DIDN'T. >> I'M SURE IT WAS ME. I CAN'T
WE WE FOUGHT ABOUT WHO NAMED OUR CHURCH LIKE 20 YEARS AGO.
AND NOBODY HAS A CONSENSUS WHERE THE NAME REALLY --EVERYBODY,
EVERYBODY WANTS ALL THE GLORY, RIGHT? THEY WANT ALL THE GLORY.
>> BUT WHAT IS THE NAME OF THE CHURCH?
>> WELL, THAT WAS A DIFFERENT NAME, BUT WE COMPILED IT
TOGETHER. WE'RE HIS CHURCH NOW. IT'S THE NAME OF HIS CHURCH,
BECAUSE MULTIPLE CHURCHES, LIKE THE ONE THAT SENT US, WE WENT
BACK AND TOOK IT. WE PLANTED OTHER LOCATIONS AND NOW IT'S
ALL ONE CHURCH. SO HIS CHURCH BACK IN THE DAY, WE WERE RIVER
CITY CHURCH. >> YEAH. AND WE DO KNOW WHO
NAMED HIS CHURCH BECAUSE HE SAID, IF I COULD NAME IT, I
WOULD JUST NAME IT CHURCH. BUT YOU CAN'T FIND IT ON THE
INTERNET. I'M LIKE, YOU CAN'T NAME SOMETHING CHURCH.
>> I LIKE. >> WHY IS IT HE'S LIKE, I JUST.
>> LIKE CHURCH IS JUST WHAT IT IS.
>> IF WE GET A DOG, I'M GOING TO NAME IT DOG. AND IF WE GET A
CAT, I'M GOING TO NAME IT CAT. SO WHY CAN'T WE JUST NAME THE
CHURCH? CHURCH? I'M LIKE, BECAUSE THEY CANNOT FIND IT. IT
NEEDS AN IDENTIFYING FACTOR. >> SO IT DOES.
>> HE SAID, OKAY, WELL JUST I DON'T KNOW, JUST I WISH IT
COULD JUST BE CALLED HIS CHURCH AND WE DON'T HAVE TO WORRY
ABOUT IT. SO THAT'S THE REASON WE NAMED IT.
>> LIKE THAT THOUGH. >> YEAH.
>> IT'S VERY TAXING OF YOU
BECAUSE WASN'T JOHN WAYNE HE NAMED HIS DOG DOG.
>> DOG. YEAH, YEAH, HE'D SEEN THE MOVIE. YOU KNOW WHERE I'M
COMING FROM? YOU NAME A DOG? YEAH. WELL, I THINK THE CHURCH
IS JESUS'S CHURCH, RIGHT? AND IF IT'S HIS DEAL, IT'S HIS BILL.
GIVE HIM ALL THE GLORY. HE'S IN CHARGE. NAME IT HIS CHURCH. IT
TAKES THE WEIGHT OFF OF US. AND IT'S WHERE IT SHOULD BE AT THE
THRONE ROOM. >> SO WHAT MADE YOU GUYS WANT
TO WRITE A MARRIAGE BOOK? >> LOVE HANDLES. JESS. TELL
THEM. TELL THEM WHAT YOU THINK. >> I THINK. WELL, I THINK WHAT
MADE US WANT TO WRITE A MARRIAGE BOOK IS JUST HAVING TO
BE MARRIED FOR 25 YEARS. YOU KNOW, IT WAS LIKE WE MARRIED
EACH OTHER AND WE LIKED EACH OTHER. WE WERE FRIENDS. AND I
THINK IT WAS JUST KIND OF AT TIMES DISCOURAGING TO US THAT
IT WOULD SEEM SO IMPOSSIBLE OR SO OVERWHELMING. AND WE REALLY
WANTED TO STAY FRIENDS, RAISE KIDS THAT WANTED TO COME BACK
HOME WHEN THEY LEFT BECAUSE IT WAS FUN AND GREAT TO BE THERE.
AND IT WAS HEALTHY, YOU KNOW, NOT LIKE THEY HAD TO OR THEY
JUST RAN AWAY. BUT WE JUST THAT WAS OUR GOAL. WE STARTED HAVING
KIDS, WE STARTED PLANTING CHURCHES. THINGS GOT SUPER
STRESSFUL WHEN WE WOULD LOOK FOR THINGS TO DO. IT WAS LIKE
EITHER SUPER SAPPY AND LIKE HE COULD NOT NEED TO TALK ABOUT, LIKE,
YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO DISCUSS THINGS. AND SO THE WAY WE IN
OUR CHURCH AND THAT WE, WE WOULD DO THESE SERIES AND
PEOPLE WOULD COME AND IT WOULD BE THE LARGEST
ATTENDED SERIES OF THE YEAR, THE LARGEST DOWNLOADED
SERIES OF THE YEAR. AND WE THOUGHT, WE'VE GOT TO HELP
PEOPLE, BECAUSE IF IT SEEMS TOO BIG TO WRAP YOUR BRAIN AROUND,
THEY JUST GET OVERWHELMED AND THERE'S NO HOPE. AND SO WE
WANTED TO WRITE A BOOK THAT WAS SUPER SIMPLE AND THAT HAD A
PRACTICAL APPLICATION AT THE END OF EACH CHAPTER THAT YOU
COULD LIKE, IF YOU'RE SITTING AT YOUR KID'S SOCCER GAME, YOU
COULD READ THE CHAPTER TOGETHER IN TEN MINUTES. AND THEN THAT
WEEK WHEN YOU GO ON A DATE, LIKE TRY TO PUT THE LITTLE, YOU
KNOW, LOVE HANDLE IS WHAT WE CALLED THE KIND OF HOMEWORK AT
THE END. AND IT WAS JUST A SUPER SIMPLE ONE STEP THING
WHERE THEY WOULD BUILD A FAMILY CULTURE FOR THEMSELVES. BUT IT
WAS EASY AND WE WANTED LIKE A 25 YEAR OLD SOCCER MOM AND DAD,
TO BE ABLE TO DO IT IN THEIR CRAZY WEEK WITH NO SLEEP. AND
SO THAT WAS KIND OF WHERE WE. >> WERE.
>> COMING FROM. >> I READ IT, THAT'S WHAT I
KEEP THINKING. >> I WISH YOU BROUGHT A BOOK.
>> SO YEAH, I SHOULD HAVE ACTUALLY BROUGHT A COPY. I'LL
GET ONE ON AMAZON. SINCE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IT. I SHOULD HAVE
BROUGHT IT. OH, GREAT. YEAH. LOVE HANDLES. THE WHOLE IDEA IS
HOW TO HOLD ON TO THE LOVE OF YOUR LIFE. AND SO I THINK ABOUT
GOD TAKING THE RIB OUT OF ADAM, RIGHT OUT OF ADAM'S SIDE,
CREATING EVE. SO WHO KNOWS, MAYBE THE RIB WAS LOW SOMEWHERE
DOWN AROUND THE THE FAT ON MY BACK OR MY SIDE. AND THAT'S
WHERE THE RIB CAME OUT OF. AND THAT'S WHERE THE MOST IMPORTANT
THING ADAM HAS, IT'S GOING TO BE CREATED. SO THAT IDEA OF
LOVE HANDLE. AND SO THEN THERE ARE DIFFERENT LOVE HANDLES WHAT
TO HOLD ON TO. RIGHT. HOLD ON TO YOUR FAMILY UNIT. RIGHT.
HOLD ON TO YOUR LOVE LIFE. HOLD ON TO YOUR COMMUNICATION. THESE
IDEAS AND I FOUND THIS ABOUT MARRIAGE. LIKE I WASN'T IN AN
ENVIRONMENT WHERE YOU WERE EVER TAUGHT ABOUT MARRIAGE. YOU KNOW,
THAT WAS KIND OF QUIET TABOO. MOM AND DAD WERE MARRIED, BUT
WE DIDN'T TALK ABOUT THEIR PROBLEMS. ALL THAT WAS BEHIND
CLOSED DOORS IN THE FAMILY I GREW UP IN. YOU REALLY DIDN'T
TALK ABOUT SEX. EXCEPT DON'T BE HAVING IT OR DON'T BE GETTING
ANYBODY PREGNANT. RIGHT. THIS IS THESE ARE THE CONVERSATIONS.
>> A LOT OF PEOPLE DID THAT. >> THAT WAS KIND OF THE VIBE.
AND I'M 40. I'M GETTING READY TO TURN 48. SO, YOU KNOW, WE'RE
GOING BACK 70S, 80S. I WAS BORN IN 77, RAISED IN THE 80S. AND
THEN I GOT I GOT SAVED, WE GOT SPIRIT-FILLED, WE GOT MARRIED,
MARRIED IN 2000. I STARTED LOOKING AT MARRIAGE RESOURCES,
AND IT FELT LIKE A LOT OF THEM WERE ALL FROM A FEMALE
PERSPECTIVE ON HOW TO HOUSEBREAK A MAN. SOMETIMES IT
FELT LIKE HOW TO EMASCULATE A MAN. YEAH, RIGHT. SO I DIDN'T
FEEL LIKE THERE WAS A GOOD BALANCE OF BOTH MALE AND FEMALE
LEADERSHIP. I'M A PRO FEMALE. I'M MARRIED TO A FEMALE
PREACHER, GOT TWO DAUGHTERS. HOPE THEY'RE PRESIDENT OF THE
UNITED STATES BECAUSE I WANT TO FLY ON AIR FORCE ONE. I'M ALL.
I'M ALL FOR THE GIRL. >> NOBODY'S GETTING ABUSED IN
THIS HOUSE. >> NOBODY'S. EVERYBODY'S.
EVERYBODY'S STANDING THEIR GROUND. RIGHT. BUT THERE NEEDS
TO BE A RETURN TO BIBLICAL MASCULINITY, MANHOOD, BEING A
FATHER AND BEING A HUSBAND. AND THOSE VOICES NEED TO COME FORTH
CLEAR AND NOT THROUGH THIS. I DON'T KNOW, BEIGE KIND OF
CHURCHIANITY WEAK MALE LEADERSHIP PATTERN. RIGHT. SO
SO THAT WAS A BIG PART FOR US TO BOTH THE MALE AND THE FEMALE
PERSPECTIVE. I THINK FOR ME, TEACH LIKE THAT.
>> FROM SOME SOMEWHERE HEALTHY, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE I, WE REALLY
DID LIKE EACH OTHER AND YET WE STILL HAD MARRIAGE STRUGGLES,
YOU KNOW. AND WE HAD TO WORK THOSE OUT. EVERYBODY DOES. AND
WE WERE LEARNING. BUT IT WAS IT TOOK US A LOT LONGER SOMETIMES
TO PROCESS AND LEARN BECAUSE WE COULDN'T FIND IT. IT WAS LIKE A
VOICE. I WAS LIKE, WELL, I DON'T FEEL MISTREATED. I'M JUST
MARRIED. AND FOR HIM, YOU KNOW, IT WASN'T THIS SEVERE TRAUMA,
BUT BUT REAL LIFE PARENTS THAT ARE JUST TRYING TO GET THROUGH
RAISING THEIR KIDS EVERY DAY AND HAVE A MARRIAGE. AND SO FOR
BOTH VOICES GETTING TO BE HEARD US, THERE WAS SOMETHING ABOUT
AND BOTH VOICES BEING HEALTHY AND STRONG, NOT ONE BEING
LESSER THAN THE OTHER. >> I WANT TO.
>> ASK WORKING TOGETHER, COMING INTO ALIGNMENT AND BEING ON THE
SAME TEAM. >> THAT'S THE WORD SAME TEAM.
>> SAME TEAM. >> IF YOU SEE YOURSELF ON THE
SAME TEAM, YOUR MARRIAGE WORKS. IF YOU SEE YOURSELF AS
OPPONENTS FOR LINING UP FOR BATTLE, I'M OFFENSE YOUR
DEFENSE, RIGHT? YOU CAN'T MAKE A MARRIAGE WORK.
>> WE JUST LOOK AT EACH OTHER AND WE SAY STRENGTH AND HONOR.
WE KNOW THAT. THAT MEANS THAT'S CODE FOR WE'RE ON THE SAME TEAM.
WE'RE DOING SOME GLADIATOR. BUT I WANT TO ASK A QUESTION, BUT I
WANT TO HEAR EACH OF YOUR ANSWERS INDIVIDUALLY. BUT WAIT.
>> I HAVE A QUESTION TOO. >> WELL, LET ME ASK THIS BEFORE
I FORGET IT. >> ALL RIGHT. STRENGTH AND
HONOR. >> STRENGTH AND HONOR. TEAMWORK
MAKES THE DREAM WORK. >> SO.
>> BRIAN, WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE? WHAT ARE THE
CHARACTERISTICS THAT A MAN OF THE HOME SHOULD BE EMULATING AS
THEIR AS A GOOD LEADER AND A GOOD HUSBAND?
>> YEAH, I THINK WE NEED THE MEN IN THE BODY OF CHRIST
BAPTIZED IN THE SPIRIT OF A MAN AGAIN, RIGHT? A MAN IS FIRST
AND FOREMOST. HE'S A PROVIDER, RIGHT? HE TENDS AND KEEPS THE
GARDEN. HE MAKES THE EARTH BRING FORTH FRUIT. HE'S A
PROTECTOR, RIGHT? YOU PROTECT YOUR WIFE. YOU PROTECT YOUR
CHILDREN. YOU CREATE A SAFE SPACE AND A SPACE OF PROVISION
WHERE THINGS CAN FLOURISH IN IT. SO I THINK ABOUT IT JUST LIKE A
GARDEN. I THINK WHAT A MAN DOES IS HE'S A GARDENER. WHAT'S A
GARDEN DO A GARDENER DO HE? AND THINK ABOUT THIS JESUS, THE
ONLY OCCUPATION JESUS WAS EVER CONFUSED FOR WAS A GARDENER IN
THE RESURRECTION. WHEN HE'S RESURRECTED, THEY THINK HE'S A
GARDENER. YEAH, RIGHT. ARE YOU THE GARDENER? NO. HE'S THE.
HE'S THE SON OF GOD, RIGHT. BUT HE IS A GARDENER. YEAH, BECAUSE
HE PLANTS A GARDEN EAST OF EDEN. RIGHT. SO WHAT DOES WHAT DOES A
GARDENER DO? >> HE ALWAYS USED PLANT
METAPHORS FOR TEACHING. YEAH, YEAH.
>> YEAH, I MEAN, IT'S ALL THERE IN THE BIBLE. IT WORKS. RIGHT?
JESUS TALKS ABOUT THE VINE. HE TALKS ABOUT WHEAT AND TARES.
IT'S ALL THIS STUFF. HE'S A GARDENER. GOD, MORE THAN HE
RIGHT? WE WANT THINGS. POOFED. POOFS THINGS. HE PLANTS THINGS,
GOD PLANTS THINGS. YOU WANT A GOOD MARRIAGE? YOU GOT A PLANT,
YOU GOT A TENT. YOU GOTTA GOTTA WATER IT. SO I THINK A GARDENER
OR A MAN OR A FATHER, HE PLANTS SEEDS. HOW DO YOU GET A SON?
HOW DO YOU GET A DAUGHTER? YOU SOW A SEED, RIGHT? AND THEN
IT'S NOT ENOUGH TO JUST SEW THAT SEED, RIGHT? BECAUSE
THERE'S A LOT OF IDIOTS SOWING SEEDS. BUT THEY'RE NOT RAISING
CHILDREN. YOU SOW A SEED, THEN YOU GOT TO WATER THAT SEED. TEN
THAT SEED. THEN YOU HAVE TO KILL THE SNAKES. WHEN DID ADAM
MESS THIS WORLD UP? HE DIDN'T KILL THE SNAKE, RIGHT? HE
ENTERTAINED THE SNAKE. HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN KILLING. SO I
THINK AS A MAN, YOU PLANT THAT SEED, YOU TAKE CARE OF THAT
SEED, AND THEN YOU KILL THE THREATS THAT COME AGAINST YOUR
FAMILY IN YOUR MARRIAGE, AND THEN YOU WIN.
>> THAT'S SO GOOD. >> AND THEN, JESSE, WHAT, IN
YOUR OPINION, IS THE WOMAN'S ROLE IN ITS FULLNESS IN THE
PROVERBS 31? YOU KNOW, I READ THAT OVER REBECCA ON SHABBAT.
YEAH. YOU KNOW, IT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS WHERE IT'S SO DEEP
AND THERE'S SO MUCH TO IT. YEAH. BUT PRACTICALLY SPEAKING, DAY
AND AGE, WHAT IS THE WOMAN'S ROLE?
>> I THINK, TO ENCOURAGE WOMEN THAT THE PROVERBS 31, YOU KNOW,
IT'S OVER A LIFETIME SPAN. I DON'T I DON'T THINK THAT
EVERYTHING IS, YOU KNOW, IN YOU ALL AT ONE TIME NECESSARILY,
YOU KNOW, THESE THINGS THAT WE STRIVE FOR, THEY DON'T ALWAYS
STRIKE ON THE SAME DAY, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE IT'S ALL THERE IN
A LIST. WE KIND OF FEEL THIS OVERWHELMING BURDEN TO HAVE IT
ALL PRESENT ALL THE TIME. AND I THINK THE WOMEN ARE REALLY THEY
CRITIQUE THEMSELVES CONSTANTLY TRYING TO FIX. THE MORE SOCIAL
MEDIA INVADES OUR SPACE, MOMS AND WIVES ARE OVERWHELMED BY AN
ANXIETY TO FULFILL WHAT THE WORLD SEES THAT THEY NEED TO BE.
SO WHEN I'M WHEN I LOOK AT IT, I SAY, GOD, YOU HAD ME MARRY
BRIAN. I DIDN'T MARRY JOHN SMITH FROM DOWN THE STREET. I
DIDN'T MARRY LARRY FROM ACROSS THE STREET. THOSE ARE NOT MY
HUSBANDS. YOU. YOU HAD ME MARRY BRIAN. AND IF YOU'LL GIVE ME
THE WISDOM AND THE HELP FROM HEAVEN TO BE THE BEST WIFE TO
BRIAN THAT I CAN BE, THAT MEANS THAT I HAVE TO LEARN MY TEAM.
AND WE HAVE TO HAVE A TEAM CULTURE. AND WE TALK ABOUT THIS
IN THE BOOK. IT SOUNDED LIKE YOU HAD READ THE BOOK WHEN YOU
SAID THE TEAMWORK, BECAUSE WE TALK ABOUT BUILDING A FAMILY
CULTURE. THAT IS YOUR FAMILY CULTURE, NOT YOUR PARENTS
FAMILY CULTURE, NOT HIS PARENTS FAMILY CULTURE. I'M NOT I AM
NOT REQUIRED TO ANSWER TO GOD ONE DAY FOR HOW SHE WAS YOUR
WIFE. I'M. I'M WILL BE REQUIRED TO ANSWER TO THE LORD FOR HOW I
AM HIS WIFE. AND THAT MEANS FINDING OUT WHAT BRIAN NEEDS
FROM ME THAT MAYBE DOES NOT MATCH UP WITH WHAT MY FATHER
NEEDED FROM MY MOTHER, OR WHAT HIS FATHER NEEDED FROM HIS
MOTHER, AND YET STILL SCRIPTURALLY BASED. OBVIOUSLY,
WE WANT TO BE THOSE THINGS. BE A WOMAN OF GOD. BE A WOMAN OF
PRAYER, BE A HARD WORKER. I THINK SOMETIMES WOMEN THINK
THEY EITHER HAVE TO WORK OUTSIDE THE HOME, OR THEY HAVE
TO BE A STAY AT HOME MOM. WELL, THE PROVERBS 31 WOMAN WAS ALL
OF THOSE THINGS WRAPPED UP INTO ONE IN DIFFERENT SEASONS. SHE
WAS DOING DIFFERENT THINGS IN DIFFERENT TIMES OF THE DAY. SHE
WAS UP BEFORE THE SUN CAME UP. SHE STAYED UP AND TOOK CARE OF
HER FAMILY. SHE ALL OF THESE THINGS, YOU KNOW, AND SO WE WE
WANT TO JUDGE OURSELVES BY THE WORLD'S STANDARD. AND I REALLY
WOMEN TO COME BACK INTO LIKE, I BELIEVE THAT IT'S TIME FOR
AM ANTI-FEMINISM. AND PEOPLE THINK THAT THAT IS INSANE
BECAUSE THEY LOOK AT ME AND THEY GO, YOU'RE AN INDEPENDENT
WOMAN, THAT YOUR HUSBAND LET YOU DO ANYTHING THAT YOU WANT
TO DO. I PREACH ALL OVER THE WORLD. I GO INTO, YOU KNOW, THE
DARKEST AND UNDERGROUND CHURCH WORLDS, AND HE SENDS ME AND I
GO NOT BY MYSELF WITH A TEAM, BUT IT'S NOT LIKE HE HAS TO BE
THERE. HE I'VE GONE ALL OVER THE WORLD AND DONE WHATEVER I
WANTED TO DO, BEEN IN DANGEROUS PLACES, PREACH THE GOSPEL ALL
OVER THE EARTH, RAISED MY KIDS, DONE ALL OF THIS WITH HIS
BACKING BECAUSE HE IS CONFIDENT IN WHO HE IS. HE'S NEVER SAID
TO ME, JESSE, I DON'T THINK YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T NEED TO DO THAT.
HE'S ALWAYS JUST RELEASED ME TO DO WHATEVER WAS IN MY HEART.
AND YET, I FEEL MORE THAN EVER THAT THE FEMINIST MOVEMENT TOOK
SOMETHING FROM US. I MEAN, IT REALLY, IT ABORTED THE DREAM OF
GOD IN WOMEN'S HEARTS AND TOLD THEM, YOU CAN BURN YOUR BRA.
WHAT IF I DON'T WANT TO BURN MY BRA? WHAT IF I'M WHAT IF I WANT
TO TO BE ALL THAT GOD'S CALLED ME TO BE? NOT WHAT YOU WANT ME
TO BE. AND THESE, THESE AND ESPECIALLY WOMEN HAVE BEEN HARD
ON WOMEN SAYING, YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE THIS. YOU HAVE TO BE
THIS. YOU HAVE TO COME TO THIS. AND IT'S LIKE, NO, I DON'T WANT
ANY OF THOSE THINGS. THAT GENERATION THAT CAME BEFORE ME.
I WANT TO BE DIFFERENT THAN THAT. I WANT MY CHILDREN TO
REMEMBER HOW I COOK. I WANT THEM TO REMEMBER HOW I SMELL. I
WANT THEM TO BE WITH ME. I WANT TO HAVE KIDS. I WANT TO BE A
WIFE TO HIM. I WANT WHEN HE DIES. I SHOULD SAY WHEN I DIE,
I DON'T KNOW WHO WILL OUTLIVE EACH OTHER. BUT WHEN. BRIAN.
>> I THINK YOU'LL BEBE. >> YOU THINK SO? OKAY, WE'RE
GOING TO GO WITH THAT. >> I LOOK LIKE SANTA CLAUS.
LOOK AT YOU. I THINK YOU'RE GOING LONGER.
>> OH, MY. I HOPE WE JUST DIE AT THE SAME TIME. LIKE THE NOTE
OR WHATEVER. >> YEAH, YEAH, I JUST, LIKE
INSTANTANEOUS. ABSOLUTELY. LIKE, I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU DO.
>> THAT PEACEFULLY IN YOUR SLEEP.
>> YES. IT'S PERFECT. FLYING OVER NICHOLAS. SPARKS ALL THE
DREAMS. SO WHATEVER. WE DIE. IF BRIAN, YOU KNOW,
IF I DIED BEFORE HIM, I WOULD JUST WANT HIM TO SAY, LIKE SHE
WAS A GOOD WIFE TO ME. NOT A PERFECT WOMAN. NOT LIKE THAT
WOULD BE. THE DREAM OF MY HEART. IS THAT I WAS A GOOD MOM TO MY
KIDS AND A GOOD WIFE TO HIM. AND I REALIZED WHEN WE WERE
FIRST MARRIED, I WOULD BE DOING ALL THESE THINGS, REALLY
WORKING HARD AND LIKE, SUPER FRUSTRATED AND LIKE GETTING
BITTERNESS IN MY HEART TOWARDS BRIAN. AND HE WOULD JUST LIKE
GO TO THE GOLF COURSE AND LIKE, DIDN'T EVEN CARE. IT WAS LIKE
OUR ONLY DAY OFF. WE'RE PLANNING A CHURCH. I'M WORKING
80 HOURS, 90 HOURS A WEEK, AND I'M JUST DYING OVER HERE. AND
THIS DUDE JUST WALKS OUT TO THE GOLF COURSE LIKE NOTHING'S
HAPPENING. I'M LIKE, WE STILL HAVE TO CLEAN THE WHOLE HOUSE.
LIKE IN MY HOUSE. EVERYBODY CLEANED THE HOUSE ON SATURDAY.
WE STAYED THERE, GOT IT DONE. LIKE THAT WAS OUR WORLD. AND
BRIAN'S HOUSE. THEY HAD A LADY THAT CAME IN AND DID ALL OF
THAT WHILE HIS MOTHER WORKED IN AN OFFICE. SO IN THEIR OFFICE,
TAKING CARE OF ALL THE BOOKS OF THEIR CATTLE BROKERAGE.
>> MOM RAN FINANCES. ALL OF US WORKED AROUND.
>> SHE WAS. >> A BUSINESSWOMAN LIKE.
>> HE NEVER WAS DONE. >> HE NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT THAT.
>> SO YOU'RE HITTING ON A REALLY IMPORTANT TOPIC IS WHEN
YOU GET WE'VE ACTUALLY HAD THIS CONVERSATION WHEN YOU ARE
RAISED TWO DIFFERENT WAYS. YES, THAT IS A HARD THING TO
NAVIGATE. >> I WAS SO ANGRY WITH HIM FOR
SO LONG. AND THEN HE LOOKS AT ME ONE DAY AND HE'S LIKE, WHAT
ARE YOU DOING TODAY? I'M LIKE, WHAT DO YOU THINK I'M DOING
TODAY? I'M CLEANING THE HOUSE. HE'S LIKE, WHY ARE YOU DOING
THAT? DO YOU LIKE THAT? I'M LIKE, DO I LIKE CLEANING THE
HOUSE? I WAS BLOWN AWAY. HE LITERALLY THOUGHT IT WAS LIKE
THE JOY OF MY LIFE, AND HE WAS JUST GOING TO DO THE.
>> JOY OF HIS LIFE. I WAS GOING TO GOLF.
>> HE LOVES CLEANING. >> HE LOVES CLEAN DISHES. YES.
IT'S NOT. HERE'S SOME EXTRA ONES. YEAH, JOY. SHE'S LOVING
IT. HERE'S MY LAUNDRY. >> SO I WAS LIKE, WHAT ARE YOU
TALKING ABOUT? LIKE I'M MISERABLE. YOU'RE GOING OUT TO
HAVE FUN. AND HE'S LIKE, OH, HON, YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO THAT.
HE'S LIKE, WE COULD SKIP GOING OUT TO EAT ONE TIME THIS WEEK,
AND WE COULD HAVE SOMEONE COME IN AND DO THAT FOR YOU. AND I
WAS LIKE, REALLY? I'D NEVER HEARD OF SUCH A THING. LIKE, TO
ME, THAT WAS JUST A CONCEPT THAT WASN'T LIKE PART OF MY
WORLD. AND SO WHENEVER HE SAID THAT, I WAS LIKE, WELL, LET'S
DO THAT THEN. YOU MEAN I CAN GO SHOPPING.
>> OR DO SOMETHING FUN. >> YOU KNOW? AND HE SAID, YEAH,
YOU CAN DO WHATEVER YOU WANT. TAKE A NAP. I DON'T CARE WHAT
YOU DO. SO WE CAME TO THAT AGREEMENT AND THAT WAS MY FIRST
REALIZATION OF LIKE, WAIT A SECOND, JUST BECAUSE IT WAS
GOOD FOR MY MOM AND DAD OR HIS MOM AND DAD DOES NOT MEAN THAT
IT'S GOOD FOR US. AND WE REALLY. AND THAT'S A VERY SIMPLE, BASIC
CONCEPT. >> THAT'S SO GOOD.
>> I DON'T THINK PEOPLE TAKE THE TIME TO TALK ABOUT IT, YOU
KNOW, AND AND THAT BROUGHT SO MUCH JOY. IT SQUELCHED
BITTERNESS IN ME, THE COMMUNICATION OF THAT SUBJECT
ALONE BROUGHT SO MUCH PEACE TO OUR HOUSE. AND I, AND I THINK
IT CHANGED. SO AT THAT POINT I STARTED THINKING, I JUST NEED
TO BE HIS WIFE. I DON'T NEED TO BE MY FRIEND SALLY'S HUSBAND'S
WIFE, I. >> TO BE LIKE HER.
>> NO, I JUST HAVE TO BE JESSE. AND AS LONG AS HE AND I ARE
HAPPY WITH EACH OTHER AND WE'VE COMMUNICATED AND WE'RE ON PAR,
THEN THE WORLD IS GOOD. >> YEAH, THAT'S JUST THE BIBLE
SAID LIKE THIS. LEAVING IN CLEVELAND, RIGHT? YOU'RE GOING
TO LEAVE YOUR MOTHER, FATHER CLEVELAND TO YOUR WIFE, AND THE
TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH. SO, LIKE WE GOT MARRIED, I REMEMBER
HER FAMILY. MY FAMILY WAS LIKE, NOT COMMUNICATE. WE DIDN'T
COMMUNICATE AT ALL, RIGHT? MY MY MOTHER WOULD SERVE AS THE
HOLY SPIRIT FOR MY FATHER. MY FATHER WOULD WANT SOMETHING
DONE. TELL MY MOTHER IN PRIVATE, AND THEN MY MOTHER WOULD COME
TELL YOU WHAT MY FATHER WANTED DONE. YOUR DAD DOES THIS OR
THAT, RIGHT? WE DIDN'T COMMUNICATE. JESSE'S FAMILY HAD,
LIKE, FAMILY MEETINGS WHERE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A FAMILY
MEETING. THEY CAME AND CALLED. TYPICALLY, IT WAS A STRAIGHTEN
YOU OUT. AND SO WHEN WE GOT ENGAGED.
>> IT WASN'T SO PLEASANT. >> IT WOULDN'T.
>> BE PLEASANT. >> IT'S LIKE EVERYBODY CALLED.
>> IT WAS JUST LIKE A WEEKLY. >> SHE WAS SO EXCITED. NO.
>> YEAH. NO. >> IT WAS SWEET. LIKE LIKE
YOU'RE THINKING. >> CHECK IN. THAT WOULD BE SO
SWEET. >> LOVE A WEEK.
>> OH, I LOVE A WEEKLY CHECK IN. >> OF COURSE YOU WERE.
>> THIS WAS LIKE A WEEKLY, I DON'T KNOW, STRAIGHT.
>> STRAIGHTEN UP. YEAH. SO. >> LIKE.
>> WHEN WE WERE ENGAGED WEEKLY. >> DON'T, DON'T KNOW.
>> IT WOULD BE LIKE MONTHLY. >> YEAH.
>> SO WHEN, WHEN WE GOT ENGAGED, I HAD TO PLAY THE GAME TO GET
THE GIRL RIGHT. I'M NOT DUMB. SO THEY CALL A FAMILY MEETING.
I'M ENGAGED. SO NOW I GOT TO COME, AND I WOULD SIT THERE AND
I'D BE NICE, AND SOME OF THE STUFF WOULD BE GOOD. AND SOME
OF THE STUFF I'M LIKE, THIS IS, THIS IS INSANE. YOU KNOW, I'M
JUST THINKING BECAUSE I'M GOING TO HAVE.
>> A DIFFERENT. >> EVERYBODY'S FAMILY HAS BAD
STUFF. >> YOU KNOW. EVERYBODY'S FAMILY
IS UGLY. >> NOBODY'S PERFECT. SO I
REMEMBER WE GOT MARRIED AND SOMETHING HAPPENED AND THEY
CALLED A FAMILY MEETING. WE'RE NEWLY MARRIED. YOU KNOW, NEWLY
MARRIED GUYS CAN START TRYING TO DRAW LINES IN THE SAND. AND
YOU CAN YOU GOT TO DO IT, BUT YOU CAN DO IT THE WRONG WAY OR
THE RIGHT WAY. RIGHT? THIS IS OUR FAMILY NOW. SO THEY CALL
THE FAMILY MEETING. >> I TOTALLY.
>> DID IT. >> THE WRONG WAY.
>> I DID IT THE WRONG WAY. BUT BUT THIS IS THE CONCEPT. I'M
LIKE FAMILY MEETING. WHAT FAMILY? AND THEY'RE LIKE, WE'RE
HAVING A FAMILY. AND I'M LIKE, NO, YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND. WE'RE
MARRIED NOW. THIS IS MY FAMILY, RIGHT? WE'RE STILL AN EXTENSION.
WE HONOR AND RESPECT YOU, BUT IT'S NOT GOING TO BE LIKE THAT.
AND IT WAS JUST A BIT. >> TRUE AND BIBLICAL.
>> IT IS BIBLICAL. AND AT THAT POINT, OUR FAMILY CULTURE WAS A
LITTLE UNHEALTHY. YEAH, RIGHT. IT WAS UNHEALTHY. AND WE WERE
LEARNING. WE GOT TO NOT DO IT. MY FAMILY'S WAY. HER FAMILY'S
WAY. YOU GOT TO DO IT OUR WAY. RIGHT? LIKE THE OLD SONG. SO
THERE'S A POWER IN THAT FINDING WHO YOU ARE. AND THAT PUTS YOU
ON THE SAME TEAM. AND THEN WHEN YOU GET ON THE SAME TEAM,
INSTEAD OF US AGAINST EACH OTHER, IT'S US AGAINST WHATEVER
THE WORLD IS THROWING AT US, AND THEN WE CAN WIN.
>> HE ASKED, LIKE AS A WOMAN IN THE HOUSE, LIKE WHAT? I THINK
WOMEN. AND THAT IS WHAT I MEANT BY THAT WAS JUST LIKE, IF HE'S
HAPPY, THEN I'M BEING A GOOD, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? IF HE'S
HAPPY WITH ME, THEN I'M BEING A GOOD WIFE, LIKE, AND IF AND
WE'RE A. >> REALLY SIMPLE I ACTUALLY
LIKE THAT YOU'RE SIMPLIFYING IT. YEAH.
>> I DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT EVERYTHING IN THE WHOLE WORLD.
I JUST HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT OUR WORLD. AND THEN, YOU KNOW, AT
THAT POINT WE COULD WORK ON OTHER THINGS. BUT I THINK IT
MATTERS THAT WE LOVE EACH OTHER BECAUSE IT DOES REMIND YOU,
LIKE, IF I'M ONLY TRYING TO MAKE THE ONLY PERSON I'M TRYING
TO PLEASE A MARRIAGE IS BRIAN AND JESUS, AND IF THAT'S IT,
THEN I ONLY HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT HIM. AND THAT MAKES US A TEAM.
AND THEN WHEN WE GO OFF AND HAVE DINNER TOGETHER, WE'RE
WE'RE PLAYING NOW. WE'RE ESCAPING FROM THE KIDS. THIS IS
OUR FUN TIME. WE'RE NOW FRIENDS. AND LIKE, THAT MAKES BETTER
LOVERS. THAT MAKES BETTER. YOU KNOW, PARTNERS, THAT MAKES
BETTER PARENTS. AND OUR KIDS REAP THE CONSEQUENCES OF THAT
JOY IN OUR MARRIAGE. WE'RE LIKE, NOW IF WE START FUSSING WITH
EACH OTHER, WHICH WE'RE BOTH VERY DIRECT AND LIKE, I'LL TELL
HIM, LIKE, I DON'T LIKE THAT. AND HE'S.
>> LIKE EITHER. NO. >> I MEAN, WE'RE VERY.
>> LIKE PUTTING. >> UP WITH.
>> IT OVER THE TOP. AND OUR KIDS ARE LIKE, OH, MOM AND DAD
NEED TO GO ON A DATE. >> YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THEY AND
THEY'RE TEENAGERS. >> NOW, BUT THEY'RE LIKE,
PLEASE, YOU GUYS GO TO DINNER LIKE THEY DON'T NEED A
BABYSITTER ANYMORE, YOU KNOW? AND WE CAN GO ANYTIME WE WANT.
BUT THEY'RE CUTE BECAUSE THEY UNDERSTAND THAT, LIKE, THIS
MAKES THE WHOLE THE WHOLE FAMILY HEALTHY. BUT IF YOU
DON'T KNOW THAT, YOU'RE JUST PLEASING THEM AND YOU'RE TRYING
TO PLEASE THE WHOLE WORLD, YOU'RE A MISERABLE SOUL. AND I
THINK WOMEN ARE MISERABLE ALL OVER AMERICA.
>> OH, TOTALLY. I FELT LIKE THAT WAS SUCH A GOOD THING TO
SAY, BECAUSE ON SOCIAL MEDIA, THERE IS SO MUCH TALK ABOUT
WHAT A MOM SHOULD BE, WHAT A MOTHER SHOULD BE. AND IT'S JUST
IT, IT IT STRESSES YOU OUT. YEAH, IT INSTILLS FEAR AND IT
DOESN'T PRODUCE ANYTHING. >> SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE
SAYING. >> OH MY GOSH. THERE'S A WHOLE
MOVEMENT LIKE CALLED THE TRADWIFE MOVEMENT WHERE IT'S
LIKE, SHE NEEDS TO MAKE EVERYTHING FROM SCRATCH AND SHE
NEEDS TO NEVER WEAR PANTS. IT'S LIKE CRAZY. AND I.
>> KNOW PRESSURE, LIKE NO PRESSURE.
>> YOU KNOW, YOU NEED TO HOMESCHOOL YOUR CHILDREN. AND
IT'S NOT THAT THOSE THINGS ARE BAD. IT'S JUST SAYING THAT IT'S
LIKE, I THINK THERE'S SUCH WISDOM. AND GOD ACTUALLY KIND
OF SHOWED ME JONATHAN. GOD ACTUALLY SHOWED ME WHEN I HAD
ASHER, BECAUSE THERE'S ALSO SO MUCH ADVICE ABOUT PARENTING. HE
SAID, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO BECAUSE THEY'LL SAY, WELL,
YOU SHOULDN'T. YOU KNOW, YOU NEED TO BE A STAY AT
HOME MOM OR YOU NEED TO DO THIS. YOU NEED TO DO THAT.
YOU NEED TO PUT THEM IN THIS TYPE OF SCHOOL, AND
YOU NEED TO DISCIPLINE THEM THIS WAY. AND I REMEMBER
THE CONVICTION THAT GOD GAVE ME WHEN HE WAS FIRST
BORN IS YOU HAVE TO LOOK TO ME FOR HOW YOUR FAMILY, THE
PATH THAT YOU GUYS ARE. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT Y'ALL ARE SAYING.
HE'S LIKE, THERE IS A PLAN AND A PURPOSE FOR YOUR FAMILY, AND
IT'S WALKING A CERTAIN PATH AND IT'S NOT GOING TO LOOK LIKE
EVERYONE ELSE. AND SO YOU HAVE TO LOOK TO ME FOR HOW THINGS
SHOULD BE IN YOUR HOME, NOT TO OTHER PEOPLE.
>> WELL, WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE PEOPLE OF FAITH AND ALL OF
THOSE THINGS. ALL THEY DO IS BRING FEAR. LIKE FROM THE FROM
THE TIME THAT YOU'RE BIRTHING A CHILD, THEY'RE SAYING TO YOU,
YOU SHOULD BE AFRAID OF THIS. DON'T DO THIS. YOU'RE GOING TO
HURT YOUR BABY. YOU KNOW, ALL THESE THINGS. AND I WOULD TELL
BRIAN, LIKE, UNTIL. >> I'M IN THIS WAY, SLEEP THEM
THAT WAY. >> YES. AND EVERYONE HAS A
DIFFERENT OPINION. IT CHANGES EVERY SEVEN YEARS.
>> OUR KIDS SHOULDN'T BE ALIVE. >> YEAH.
>> BY ALL STANDARDS TODAY, RIGHT? WE DID.
>> IT ALL WRONG. YEAH. WE JUST. >> DECIDED, LIKE, UNTIL WE'RE
BOTH. UNTIL WE'RE BOTH IN FAITH. LIKE, IF EITHER ONE OF US IS IN
FEAR OR IN A TIZZY, WE'RE NOT MAKING THAT DECISION RIGHT NOW.
>> IT RIGHT. RIGHT? WE'RE NOT DOING.
>> NOW IN THE HOSPITALS WITH THE VACCINES, LIKE, OH, YOU
DON'T WANT TO DO THEM. YOU GOT TO DO THEM OR THEY'RE GOING TO
DIE. >> YOU WANT YOUR KID TO HAVE
WHOOPING COUGH, RIGHT? >> YEAH.
>> YOU WANT THEM BLOCK YOUR. >> CHICKENPOX.
>> AND YOU'RE LIKE, YEAH. >> CERVICAL CANCER RIGHT.
HEPATITIS. >> HEPATITIS.
>> I DON'T THINK THE CHILD'S GOING TO BE A NEEDLE JUNKIE AND
A PROSTITUTE. >> YEAH, AT LEAST NOT YET.
IT'LL BE. >> ALL RIGHT, DOC.
>> YEAH, YEAH. >> ALL THE ALL THE FEAR. IT'S
CONTRARY TO FAITH. AND WE'RE CALLED TO PARENT AND FAITH.
WE'RE CALLED TO BE MARRIED IN FAITH. WE'RE CALLED TO LOVE
EACH OTHER. LIKE ALL THE STUFF THAT YOU'RE LIKE. IF WE DO THIS.
AND THE MORE THAT YOUR FAMILY IS BROKEN, THE MORE THAT FEAR
MOVES. LIKE, MY PARENTS DIDN'T GET A DIVORCE TILL I WAS 30.
>> NO. >> SO AT 30, I HAD NEVER
EXPERIENCED LIKE, FAMILY FEAR. >> WHEN YOU WERE. WERE YOU LIKE,
GROWING UP THAT THEY WERE. YEAH. HAD A TROUBLED MARRIAGE OR.
>> WERE YOU ANTICIPATING IT? >> SO I THINK I KNEW THAT THEY
WEREN'T FANS OF EACH OTHER, AND I JUST THOUGHT THEY WOULD BE
THAT WAY FOREVER. YOU KNOW, LIKE I JUST.
>> KIND OF GRUMPY. >> THE WAY THEY ARE.
>> YEAH. AND BUT. >> BASICALLY ALL THE KIDS ARE
GROWN AND GONE. >> THAT'S HARD. YES.
>> THEN THEY'RE JUST LIKE, ALL RIGHT, WELL.
>> WE DON'T. YEAH. >> THEY GOT IT THROUGH FOR THE
KIDS. >> YEAH, YEAH.
>> WHICH I. >> APPRECIATE ALL FOR THAT.
>> YEAH. PRAISE THE LORD. >> BUT WHEN THAT.
>> ALL RIGHT, WE'RE DONE. >> WE'RE DONE WITH THIS.
>> YEAH. >> AND WHEN THAT HAPPENED, TONS
OF FEAR. TRIED TO MOVE IN ON ME. LIKE MY MARRIAGE IS GOING TO
BREAK LATER ON. AND LIKE, ALL THESE PANICKY BECAUSE I'M KIND
OF LIKE A HIGH STRUNG PERSON ANYWAY. AND I WAS JUST. AND
THEN I WAS LIKE, WAIT A SECOND, LIKE, I NEED TO CALM DOWN AND
REMEMBER WHO I'M MARRIED TO AND WHAT'S GOING ON HERE. BUT
EVERYTHING THAT'S THE ENEMY'S TRY RIGHT TO JUST GET IN, TO
JUST SNEAK. >> IN, TELL.
>> THEM THE SITUATION. WHEN YOUR FOLKS GOT DIVORCED, WHAT
ALL HAPPENED THAT WEEK? >> WELL, MY PARENTS WERE
PASTORS, AND I LOVE THEM BOTH DEARLY. THERE WAS A LOT OF
THINGS THERE I WON'T GET INTO THAT, YOU KNOW, BROKE THEIR
MARRIAGE AND THEY ENDED UP GETTING A DIVORCE. AND I
REMEMBER MY FATHER CALLING ME AND LETTING ME KNOW AND ME
THINKING, THIS IS A DISASTER, LIKE, I DON'T WHAT IN THE WORLD?
I WAS 30, WE HAD PLANTED A CHURCH SEVEN YEARS BEFORE. I'D
LIVED AWAY A THOUSAND MILES AWAY FOREVER. I WAS PREGNANT
WITH MY THIRD CHILD AND I WAS DEVASTATED. AND I REMEMBER
GETTING DOWN IN THE FLOOR AND BRIAN CAME. I WAS CRYING LIKE,
BECAUSE YOU ACT LIKE A CHILD WHENEVER YOUR PARENTS GET A
DIVORCE, EVEN IF YOU'RE AN ADULT, JUST LIKE THAT'S THE WAY
IT STRIKES. >> YOU BECAUSE IT'S A LOSS.
>> YES, IT'S LIKE A DEATH. AND BRIAN COMES IN AND HE'S LIKE,
HEY, I LOVE YOU. YOU CAN BREATHE WHEN THE GRIEVE WHEN
THE BABY COMES. >> NOT NOW.
>> IN LIFE. SHE'S LIKE DOWN ON THE FLOOR. LIKE I'M LIKE, DO I
NEED TO CALL? LIKE, DO I CALL AN AMBULANCE?
>> I MEAN. >> AT THIS LEVEL I'M LIKE, WHAT?
LIKE, WHAT CAN I DO FOR YOU? >> YOU'RE LIKE.
>> I LOVE YOU, BABE, BUT YOU GOT TO GET UP. YOU'RE A MOM NOW,
NOT JUST A DAUGHTER. AND YOU'RE GOING TO KEEP IT TOGETHER UNTIL
THAT BABY IS OUT. BECAUSE WE HAD LOST. WE HAD MISCARRIED A
BABY BEFORE, AND HE'S LIKE, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO LET THIS
TAKE OVER YOUR BODY. THE BABY'S GOING TO COME OUT HEALTHY.
WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A HEALTHY CHILD GET UP, AND I WANT YOU TO
GO ON WITH YOUR. AND WHEN THIS BABY COMES, THEN YOU CAN MOURN
LIKE THAT IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT TO DO. BUT NOT RIGHT
NOW. AND SO WE GO AND THEN THE NEXT THING THAT HAPPENS
THAT SAME WEEK IS THAT BRIAN'S FAMILY, WHO'S BEEN
THE LARGEST CATTLE BROKERAGE IN THE ENTIRE WORLD,
THEY HAD SOLD OUT WHENEVER BRIAN'S DAD DIED A COUPLE YEARS
BEFORE. AND THE UNCLE WHO OWNED. >> IT.
>> MY MOM SOLD HER PORTION. >> YES, SHE SHE HAD SOLD HER
PORTION. AND THE UNCLE THAT HAD GOTTEN THAT PORTION AND OWNED
THE WHOLE COMPANY HAD COOKED THE BOOKS. IT ENDS UP IN A
MAGAZINE. >> AFTER THE OH EIGHT CRASH.
>> YEAH, HE HE TRIED TO FIX IT AND THEY, THEY.
>> GOT HIM. >> SO FRONT PAGE NEWS
EVERYWHERE WHERE I LIVED AND PASTORED, THEY CALLED MY FAMILY
THE LEHMANN BROTHERS OF LIVESTOCK. IT WAS LIKE FORBES.
>> FORBES. >> YOU KNOW, LIKE FORBES
ARTICLES AND STUFF. >> LIKE ABOUT MY FAMILY. YEAH.
>> OH YEAH. IT HIT EVERY MAJOR NEWS OUTLET IN AMERICA. SO SAME
WEEK. >> OH, NO.
>> MY FAMILY GOES DOWN, MY UNCLE'S GOING TO PRISON.
JESSE'S FOLKS ARE GETTING DIVORCED.
>> I MEAN, IT WAS SO PUBLIC. >> BUSTED UP. I REMEMBER WE
WERE LAYING IN BED. WE'RE HOLDING HANDS. WE'RE GETTING
READY TO HAVE OUR THIRD BABY. I'M LIKE, HEY, JESSE, Y'ALL
REMEMBER WHEN WE USED YOU? REMEMBER WHEN WE USED TO BE
SOMEBODY? I'M LIKE, THAT'S ALL OVER.
>> NOW I JUST LAUGH. WE JUST LAUGHED OUT LOUD. I WAS LIKE,
THERE'S NOTHING. >> THAT YOU COULD DO.
>> THAT'S A GOOD MARRIAGE RIGHT. >> THERE THROUGH WARS.
>> YEAH, RIGHT. AND YOU GET THROUGH WARS LIKE THAT BECAUSE
YOU'VE BECOME A TEAM AND YOU GOT SOMETHING TO HOLD ON TO. SO
NOW. >> YOU DIDN'T HOLD IT TO LIKE
YOU DIDN'T YOU DIDN'T LET YOUR IDENTITY BE WRAPPED UP IN HOW
PEOPLE PERCEIVED YOU, BECAUSE THAT WOULD HAVE CRUSHED SOME
PEOPLE. >> WELL, BOTH OF OUR FAMILY
NAMES WERE MUD THAT. >> WEEK.
>> AND THEY HAD BEEN VERY GOOD NAMES. I MEAN, WE HAD IDENTITY,
THAT LIGHT IN THAT. BUT BECAUSE WE HAD CREATED ANOTHER IDENTITY,
I THINK THAT GOD WAS ABLE TO RESCUE US FROM THAT GRIEF. IT
WAS GRIEF. I MEAN, IT WAS A IT. WAS IT WAS A DEEP, DEEP GRIEF.
BUT WE WERE ACTUALLY ABLE, I THINK, TO RESPOND WELL AND HELP
EVEN SOME OF OUR FAMILY COME OUT OF THAT ON TOP EMOTIONALLY.
BY THE GRACE OF GOD, WE GOT, YOU KNOW, IT DIDN'T IT DIDN'T
TAKE ANY OF US OUT. SO I JUST I REMEMBER THAT DAY BECAUSE I
THOUGHT, MAN, WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF IF WE DIDN'T HAVE A TEAM?
TEAM GIBSON LIKE, WHAT IF TEAM GIBSON DIDN'T EXIST? BECAUSE
WE'LL TELL OUR KIDS LIKE, HEY, YOU CAN BE ON TEAM GIBSON OR
YOU CAN BE ON YOUR OWN TEAM, BUT WE WIN EVERY TIME. AND IF
YOU GO ON THE OTHER TEAM, YOU'RE GOING TO BE A LOSER.
>> SO I LIKE THAT. >> IF YOU SAY THAT TO.
>> OUR KIDS AND. >> I'LL SAY YOU CAN, YOU CAN
DISOBEY, YOU CAN GET OUT OF LINE WITH WHAT WE'RE DOING
BECAUSE THEY'RE STILL IN OUR HOUSE. YOU KNOW, WE'RE SUPPOSED
TO WE'RE SUPPOSED TO LEAD THEM. >> AT THIS POINT, WE'RE.
>> IN CHARGE. >> YEAH, AT THIS.
>> POINT, WE'RE IN CHARGE AT THIS POINT.
>> AND I SAID, YOU KNOW, YOU DO WHATEVER YOU WANT, BUT TEAM
GIBSON WINS. AND IF YOU WANT TO BE ON THE WINNING TEAM, YOU'LL
COME OVER HERE. AND SO FROM THE TIME THEY WERE BORN, THAT'S
WHAT WE WOULD SAY TO THEM, YOU KNOW, AND INSTILLS IN THEM WE
ARE WE ARE WINNERS. WE ALWAYS WIN. WE ALWAYS COME OUT ON TOP.
WE'RE ALWAYS VICTORIOUS NO MATTER WHAT WE WALK THROUGH.
AND THAT GIVES THEM GOOD IDENTITY. BUT ALSO WHAT WOULD
HAVE HAPPENED IN THAT SEASON IF WE HADN'T BUILT THAT. IT
DOESN'T FEEL LIKE YOU NEED TO BUILD IT UNTIL YOU HAVE KIDS,
BUT YOU REALLY NEED TO BE BUILDING IT FROM THE MOMENT
THAT YOU SAY I DO. >> THAT'S SO GOOD. I DID HAVE A
QUESTION ABOUT WHEN YOU BECAUSE YOU WERE LIKE, WE DIDN'T HANDLE
IT CORRECTLY WITH HER FAMILY WHEN YOU WERE KIND OF TRYING TO
LEAVE AND CLEAVE. HOW DO YOU. >> WAIT BEFORE YOU ASK THAT
QUESTION OF HOW YOU DO? HOW DID THEY RESPOND TO THAT?
>> NOT WELL, NOT WELL. >> YEAH, THEY WERE THEY WERE
TALKED BUT BUT. >> THEY WERE.
>> WAIT, WHAT? >> MY PARENTS.
>> AND THEN HE WAS LIKE, WE ARE. >> OH.
>> BUT I WANTED TO HEAR HOW THEY RESPONDED.
>> I WAS TRYING. >> THEY HANDLED IT AS NICELY AS
THEY COULD. >> DID YOU END UP.
>> THEY DIDN'T. >> LIKE IT. WHERE ARE YOU IN
THE BIRTH ORDER. I STILL. >> I STOOD MY GROUND.
>> SO WAS ANYONE ELSE MARRIED IN THE FAMILY OR WERE Y'ALL THE
FIRST? >> NO, MY OLDEST SISTER WAS
MARRIED. >> OKAY.
>> THERE WERE SOME REAL POWER STRUGGLES WITH ONE INDIVIDUAL.
AND REALLY CONTROLLED, LIKE. >> THE WHOLE THING.
>> THE WHOLE FAMILY SYSTEM.
YEAH. AND I WAS FROM A FAMILY THAT WAS EVEN MESSED UP, LIKE,
YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, WE'RE PARTY ANIMALS AND.
>> YEAH. >> YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? BUT
EVERYBODY RESPECTED EACH OTHER'S DECISION MAKING PROCESS.
AND YOUR HUMANITY, RIGHT. WITH THIS SYSTEM, IT WAS GET IN LINE
OR. >> OR BUCK OFF.
>> YOU'RE OUT OF THE. >> WILL OF GOD.
>> YOU KNOW, IT'S TERRIBLE. AND I KNEW IT WASN'T RIGHT. RIGHT.
AND I WASN'T GOING TO SUBJECT MY FAMILY TO THAT KIND OF LIKE
DOMINATION. SO SO I MADE SOME DRASTIC.
>> IT WASN'T LIKE. >> A HEALTHY, PLEASANT, YOU
KNOW, HEY, WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT SOMETHING.
>> IF IT WOULD HAVE BEEN LIKE THAT, I WOULD HAVE JUST ROLLED
WITH IT. BUT IF IT'S LIKE YOU'RE IT WAS YOU'RE GOING TO
DO WHAT I SAY WHEN I SAY IT, HOW I SAY IT. AND IT'S LIKE, NO,
I'M A GROWN MAN WITH MY OWN FAMILY. NOW.
>> IN HIS. >> DEFENSE, I THINK HE DID THE
BEST WITH THE THE CARDS THAT HE HAD, AND I APPRECIATED IT
BECAUSE IT TOOK SOME PRESSURE OFF OF ME.
>> AS GOOD AS A 22. >> YEAR OLD.
>> I THINK. >> AS.
>> GOOD AS A 22 YEAR OLD MALE. >> COULD DO.
>> I THINK HE DID AN INCREDIBLE >> I WAS 22.
JOB LEADING OUR FAMILY. MY PARENTS PROBABLY WISHED HE
COULD HAVE BEEN A LITTLE BIT MORE GENTLE. IT'S NOT REALLY
HIS FORTE. HE'S NEVER BEEN SUPER GENTLE, YOU KNOW, SO I.
>> TEDDY BEAR. >> HE'S VERY GENTLE.
>> HE'S KIND. >> AND VERY TENDER. BUT LIKE,
HE IS LIKE HIS VOICE IS KIND OF GRUFF, YOU KNOW, ALL THE THINGS.
AND THEY HAD ONLY RAISED GIRLS. SO FOR MY FAMILY, IT WAS JUST A
BIZARRE ENCOUNTER, YOU KNOW. AND SO I DON'T ON EITHER SIDE,
I DON'T THINK EITHER ONE WAS PREPARED TO HANDLE THE OTHER
ONE. BUT HE DID. I THINK IF HE HAD NOT HAVE DONE THAT, EVEN IF
IT WAS A LITTLE BIT WRONG, I THINK YOUNG MEN NEED TO KNOW,
LIKE LIKE I SEE WE PASTORED LONG ENOUGH NOW THAT WE SEE
YOUNG MEN AND THEY'LL BE LIKE, NO ONE COULD COME TO THE
HOSPITAL, NO ONE CAN SEE OUR BABY. NO. I'M LIKE, BRO, YOU'RE
GOING TO WANT THOSE PEOPLE IN LIKE TWO MONTHS. WHEN YOU WANT
TO GO ON A DATE. >> YEAH, YOU'RE. GOING PULLING
FOR YOUR, YOU KNOW. >> SO SO WITH THE SAME AMOUNT
OF RESPECT THEY'RE SHOWING, I THINK IT SHOULD BE MET WITH
RESPECT. BUT AT SOME POINT IF IF THERE'S A BROKEN FAMILY
YOU KNOW, TRAUMA AND MENTAL SYSTEM AND YOU HAVE A LOT OF,
HEALTH ISSUES GOING ON AND FAMILY THAT DOESN'T UNDERSTAND
BOUNDARIES AND THEY WON'T RESPECT THOSE THINGS, THERE IS
A POINT WHERE YOU HAVE TO COME IN AND SAY, HEY, WE'RE GOING TO
HAVE TO DO THINGS FOR OUR FAMILY THAT GOD'S CALLING US TO
DO. AND I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT
SCRIPTURALLY AT ALL. >> YOU KNOW, WE WE MINISTER IN
PLACES WHERE THE COST OF LIVING IS SO HIGH. LET'S TAKE HAWAII,
FOR EXAMPLE. I PREACH A LOT ON HAWAII. IT'S TERRIBLE, BUT
SOMEBODY'S GOT TO SAVE THOSE. >> SOMEONE'S GOT TO SACRIFICE.
>> THERE ARE PEOPLE THERE. >> THERE ARE PEOPLE.
>> GOD LOVES THEM. >> COME OVER AND HELP US, I.
>> WILL GO. >> YOU'RE LIKE, I WILL GO, LORD.
>> YEAH. IT'S TOUGH. I KNOW THE WEIGHT.
>> CALLING ME TO THE RITZ ON HAWAII.
>> YEAH. >> NO, BUT I'VE BEEN PREACHING
THERE FOREVER. ONE OF MY MENTORS IS THERE, BUT THE COST
OF LIVING IS SO HIGH IN HAWAII NOW BECAUSE, YOU KNOW,
EVERYBODY'S IN. THE AMERICANS WITH MONEY WANT TO BUY STUFF
THERE. THE JAPANESE WITH MONEY BUY STUFF THERE. YOU KNOW, YOU
GOT CHINESE PEOPLE ARE FROM EVERYWHERE WITH BIG MONEY. SO
MULTIPLE GENERATIONS IN. THE LOCALS END UP LIVING
>> A HOUSE. >> TO AFFORD THE.
>> HOUSE. >> ON LEVELS. RIGHT. SO YOU
HAVE ALL THESE DIFFERENT GENERATIONS, ALL THESE
DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES, AND A LOT OF TIMES GRANDMOTHER AND
AUNT AND UNCLE AND MOM AND DAD, EVERYBODY'S CRAMMING THEIR
VALUES ON THAT KID, THOSE KIDS THAT JUST GOT MARRIED, LOOKING
AT THEM THROUGH A THROUGH A MICROSCOPE. AND IT'S A VERY
TOUGH SYSTEM FOR THESE KIDS TO THRIVE IN AND TO BECOME THEIR
OWN THING. NOW THEY HAVE A CULTURAL RESPECT GENERATIONALLY.
MAYBE WE'VE LOST AND WE COULD LEARN SOMETHING FROM THEM, BUT
I THINK THE HOUSING SITUATION CREATES A TOUGHER PLACE ABOUT
LEAVING AND CLEAVING. YEAH, WE'VE DONE A TON OF MARRIAGE
CONFERENCES ON HAWAII, AND WHEN YOU BRING THIS UP, YOU CAN FEEL
LIKE THE GENERATIONAL CONTROL THING STARTS SWIRLING, RIGHT?
GRANDPARENTS DON'T LIKE IT, PARENTS DON'T LIKE IT, AUNT AND
UNCLE DON'T LIKE IT. AND IT'S INTERESTING. NOW SYSTEMS LIKE
THIS ARE DIFFERENT AND IT DEPENDS ON WHAT CULTURE YOU'RE
IN. >> THAT ACTUALLY LEADS TO A
REALLY GOOD QUESTION, WHICH IS, WHAT WOULD YOUR ADVICE BE
TO SOMEONE WHO IS HAVING TO DEAL WITH SOMEONE WHO IS
TRYING TO INSERT THEMSELVES INTO THE MARRIAGE AND
TRYING TO CONTROL THE FAMILY, LIKE YOUR NUCLEAR
FAMILY, NOT JUST THE FAMILY AS A WHOLE.
>> I HAVE VERY, VERY DEEP SEATED VIEWS ON THIS
YEAR OF STUDYING HONOR FOR SUBJECT. I WALKED THROUGH A
PARENTS, GRANDPARENTS, YOU KNOW, THOSE ELDERS IN OUR FAMILY, AS
OPPOSED TO OBEDIENCE, WHICH IS WHAT CHILDREN DO WHEN THEY'RE
UNDER THE CARE. AND THE, YOU KNOW, THE UMBRELLA PROTECTION
OF THEIR FATHER'S HOUSE. WHAT HAPPENS AS YOU AGE AND WHAT
HONOR SHOULD LOOK LIKE IN IN LIGHT OF THE SCRIPTURE? IT WAS
IMPORTANT TO ME BECAUSE I WAS HAVING A DIFFICULTY WITH WITH A
FAMILY MEMBER THAT DID NOT UNDERSTAND BOUNDARIES. SO
BOUNDARIES WERE LIKE NON-EXISTENT. THERE WAS NONE.
AND EVERY TIME THAT IT WAS BROUGHT UP, IT WAS, I'M IN
SPIRITUAL AUTHORITY. I'M IN FAMILIAL AUTHORITY, I'M IN, YOU
KNOW, IT JUST KEPT COMING UP AND UP AND UP. AND IT WAS VERY
DIFFICULT BECAUSE THERE WAS NO PLEASING THIS PERSON OUTSIDE OF
COMPLETE AND UTTER OBEDIENCE. AND SO IT WASN'T LIKE, OH, WE
CAN COMPROMISE AND I CAN HAVE MY VIEW AND YOU CAN HAVE YOURS
AND I CAN HONOR IT AND WE CAN JUST GET ALONG. IT WAS JUST A
CONSTANT STATE OF, YOU HAVE TO DO IT EXACTLY LIKE I WANT IT
DONE. AND THEN TO THE POINT OF ABUSE IN THOSE SITUATIONS. AND
I HAD BEEN RAISED VERY STRICT ON OBEDIENCE AND HONOR. SO I AS
I CAME INTO LIKE THEOLOGY SCHOOL IN COLLEGE, I'M LIKE,
GOD, YOU HAVE TO GIVE ME SOME REVELATION ON THIS. AND AS I
STUDIED IT AND YOU GO BACK INTO THE ANCIENT NEAR EAST AND THE
FAMILIES AND HOW THEY WOULD HAVE HONORED, I MEAN, WE DON'T
EVEN KNOW WHAT HONOR IS THESE PEOPLE WERE THIS WAS A WHOLE
NOTHER LEVEL. BUT I DID REALIZE THROUGH THAT STUDY THAT GOD HAD
GIVEN US HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER, WHICH IS THE FIRST
COMMANDMENT, WITH PROMISE THAT IT MAY GO WELL WITH YOU, AND
THAT YOU MAY LIVE A LONG TIME ON THE EARTH. WELL, I WANT TO
LIVE A LONG TIME. I'M SURE YOU GUYS WANT TO LIVE A LONG TIME.
SO THIS HONOR THING KEPT COMING UP, AND AS I STUDIED IT, I
LOOKED AND I BEGAN TO SEE GOD REALLY GIVE ME A REVELATION.
THAT HONOR WAS PUT THERE FROM CHILDREN TO THEIR PARENTS AS A
PRINCIPLE FROM GOD, SO THAT THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST WOULD BE
PASSED DOWN FROM GENERATION TO GENERATION. LET ONE GENERATION
DECLARE TO THE NEXT GENERATION THE WONDERFUL WORKS OF THE LORD.
AND GOD WANTED TO ENSURE THAT THE CHILDREN HAD AN OPEN HEART
TO HEAR THE VOICE OF THEIR PARENTS, BECAUSE THEY WERE
PASSING DOWN GENERATIONAL FAITH. THAT WAS THE PURPOSE. IT WASN'T.
SO THAT ONE ADULT CAN BE IN CHARGE OF ALL OTHER ADULTS. IT
WASN'T THERE SO THAT SOMEONE COULD ABUSE SOMEONE. THE
PURPOSE OF HONOR WAS THERE SO THAT GOD COULD GET HIS GOSPEL,
HIS GOOD NEWS STORY, THROUGH ONE GENERATION AND PASS IT TO
THE NEXT GENERATIONS, AND THAT IT WOULD BECOME A
MULTI-GENERATIONAL FAITH THAT WAS HELD TRUE TO YOUR HEART.
LIKE VERY IMPORTANT TO YOU. AND GOD BEGAN TO REALLY SHARE WITH
ME AND AND TEACH ME ABOUT THE POWER OF HONOR AS I SHARE THE
GOSPEL, THAT EVERY TIME I GET UP AND I PREACH THE GOSPEL IN A
SERVICE, I'M HONORING MY FATHER AND MOTHER. EVERY TIME I RAISE
MY KIDS IN THE WAYS OF GOD, I AM HONORING MY FATHER AND
MOTHER EVERY TIME THAT I LIVE FOR JESUS OUT LOUD ON THE
STREET, I'M HONORING MY FATHER AND MOTHER. EVERY TIME MY
MARRIAGE WORKS, I'M HONORING MY FATHER AND MOTHER BECAUSE WHAT
WE'RE DOING THROUGH MARRIAGE IS SHOWING THAT THE COVENANT STILL
WORKS, THAT GOD'S COVENANT IS POWERFUL. WE ARE A PICTURE ON
THE EARTH OF THE BRIDE OF CHRIST. AND HOW THE THE
BRIDEGROOM LOVES THAT BRIDE. SO EVERY TIME THAT THIS IS WORKING,
I'M PREACHING THE GOSPEL THROUGH MY LIFE. AND FOR ME,
THAT WAS SUCH A SALVE TO MY SOUL, BECAUSE THE DEEPEST
DESIRE OF MY HEART WAS TO HONOR MY MOTHER AND FATHER. AND YET I
KNEW I COULD NOT OBEY WHAT THEY WERE ASKING ME. AND I FOUND
MYSELF IN THIS, LIKE, WEIRD TENSION.
>> LIKE AN INTENTION. >> YEAH. AND SO WHEN GOD GAVE
ME THAT REVELATION, IT JUST HELPED ME. AND THAT'S WHAT I
WOULD SHARE WITH PEOPLE THAT ARE DEALING WITH IT. ARE YOU
ABLE TO OBEY GOD AND THAT PERSON? AND IF YOU ARE NOT,
THEN YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND THE PURPOSE OF HONOR, AND YOU NEED
TO LIVE YOUR LIFE AS A PERSON OF HONOR, AND THAT WILL BRING
HONOR TO YOUR MOTHER AND FATHER, WHETHER THEY SEE IT AS HONOR,
THAT'S UP TO THEM. BUT WHAT WE DO WITH OUR LIFE, WE WE ANSWER
TO AN AUDIENCE OF ONE, AND GOD KNOWS OUR HEART AND WHERE WHERE
IT IS. AND I JUST HAD TO FIND MYSELF THERE.
>> AND SOME OF THESE EXAMPLES ARE EXTREME. WE'RE TALKING
ABOUT DEALING WITH AN EXTREME SITUATION. OH YEAH. RIGHT. AND
ERODING MARRIAGE AT THE TIME. BIG PROBLEMS. SO A PERSON IN A
NORMAL TRANSITION TO A MARRIAGE IS DEALING WITH A DIFFERENT
SYSTEM. A LOT OF TIMES I THINK WE, WE BROAD SWEEP THINGS LIKE,
LET'S SAY, TELLING PEOPLE, WELL, YOU JUST GOT TO FORGIVE
WHATEVER SITUATION IT IS. RIGHT? I THINK I THINK WE'VE HELD
VICTIMS HOSTAGE. YEAH, IN THE BODY OF CHRIST BY JUST SAYING
JUST FORGIVE. LIKE, THINK ABOUT THE GIRL THAT WAS BRUTALIZED,
RAPED, YOU KNOW, TREATED TERRIBLE BY SOME JERK FACE. AND
THAT GIRL JUST HAS TO FORGIVE AND GO ON. AND WE WIPE IT AWAY
LIKE THAT WITH A SIMPLE JESUS FORGAVE. NOW YOU FORGIVE.
SOMETIMES, IF WE'RE NOT CAREFUL WITH THAT MESSED UP SITUATION,
I THINK WE'RE VICTIMIZING THE VICTIM. SO IN CHRISTIAN
THEOLOGY, A LOT OF US JUST HAVE TWO. LET'S SAY CASTES OR
CLASSES OF PEOPLE SAVED AND WICKED, RIGHT? LOST, SAVED,
LOST, SAVED, WICKED SAVED. WHATEVER. JEWISH THEOLOGY IS
DIFFERENT. THERE WERE THE SAVED. THERE WERE THE. WELL, WE'LL SEE
ABOUT IT. MAYBE THEY'LL BE BORN AGAIN. THEY'RE LOST, OR MAYBE
THEY'LL BE FOUND. AND THEN THERE WAS THE WICKED. AND YOU
WATCH THE BIBLE TALKS ABOUT DEALING WITH THE WICKED
DIFFERENT THAN YOU DEAL WITH JUST SOMEBODY THAT DOESN'T KNOW
GOD. THERE'S A DIFFERENCE. THE WICKED PERSON IS DANGEROUS. THE
WICKED PERSON IS PLAIN JUST FOR THEMSELVES. RIGHT? THERE'S A
WAY YOU DEAL WITH THAT SITUATION DIFFERENT THAN A
NORMAL LIFESTYLE. WHAT'S INTERESTING IS 1 IN 25 PEOPLE,
THEY SAY IS A CARD CARRYING SOCIOPATH. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN
BY SOCIOPATH? THAT MEANS THEY COULD SHOOT US IN THE HEAD,
WALK OUT AND GO SUPERSIZE THEIR FRIES. YOU KNOW, AT MCDONALD'S,
DRIVE. >> HOME CRAZY.
>> AND ACT LIKE NOTHING HAPPENED.
>> I FEEL LIKE IT'S MORE RAMPANT ACTUALLY, NOW.
>> IT'S GETTING WORSE. >> YEAH, THERE'S MORE
SOCIOPATHS. SO WE'RE. >> WE'RE PASTORING PEOPLE
THROUGH SOME OF THIS CRAZINESS NOW. YEAH. AND IT'S ALWAYS BEEN
THERE. IT'S PROBABLY ON THE TOP. SO I'M REAL CAREFUL BECAUSE
SOME PEOPLE ARE DEALING WITH SOMETHING SO STRANGE AND SO
MANIPULATIVE THAT NORMAL PEOPLE AREN'T. YOU ALMOST GOT TO
SOLIDIFY, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE MAY HAVE A PRETTY
GOOD MOM AND DAD AND THEY'RE DISAGREEING. THEY'RE GETTING.
>> MARRIED. >> A.
>> LITTLE OPINION. >> FINDING THEIR.
>> STUFF OUT, AND IT'S LIKE. >> YOU'RE NOT GOING TO CONTROL
ME, YOU JEZEBEL. >> YEAH. YOU'RE LIKE.
>> CALM DOWN. >> YEAH, YOU'RE. SPIRIT-FILLED
MOM AND DAD IS NOT A JEZEBEL, BUT.
>> THEY'RE NOT TRYING TO DOMINATE YOUR LIFE.
>> YOU KNOW. >> MANY PEOPLE USE THAT WORD.
>> YOU GOT. >> TO QUALIFY WHAT THE
SITUATION REALLY IS. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? ESPECIALLY WHEN
YOU'RE TALKING TO YOUNGER MARRIEDS. SO SOME GUY DOESN'T
GET GUNG HO, AND YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? GO, GO TEARING DOWN
JEZEBEL'S STRONGHOLD. >> WHEN.
>> IT'S PASSIONATE, WHEN YOU'RE YOUNG BUT. KIND OF SILLY. SO
WISDOM. >> YEAH, YEAH, IT'S GOT TO MAKE
SENSE. >> WHAT ARE SOME THINGS THAT
YOU GUYS USE IN MARRIAGE TIMES OR WAYS TO COMMUNICATE WHEN IF
YOU WANT TO SEE SOMETHING DIFFERENT IN YOUR PARTNER, YOU
WANT TO SEE SOMETHING DIFFERENT IN YOUR PARTNER, HOW DO YOU
COMMUNICATE THOSE THINGS AND HOW DO YOU DO IT IN A WAY
THAT'S LOVING OR SAFE ENVIRONMENT, SO YOU'RE NOT
TRIGGERING THE PERSON INTO THINKING LIKE, OH, I'M NOT
DOING ENOUGH, OR. >> I THINK NEITHER ONE OF US
SUFFER IN SILENCE, RIGHT? IF WE FEEL IT, WE SAY IT. WE'RE
COMMUNICATORS, WE'RE PREACHERS. BUT NOW WE'VE BEEN DEVELOPING A
CULTURE WHERE WE CAN BE PRETTY HONEST WITH EACH OTHER FOR A
LOT OF YEARS. 25 YEARS IN NOW. SO EARLY.
>> ON. >> EVEN OUR STAFF, THEY LAUGH.
THEY'LL BE LIKE, THEY'LL BE AROUND US. AND WE'RE VERY LIKE,
HONEST. LIKE TO US, IT'S NO BIG DEAL. IT'S JUST HONEST, YOU
KNOW, LIKE WE'RE JUST I'LL BE LIKE, HEY, I DON'T LIKE THAT.
AND HE'S LIKE, WELL, I DO. I'M LIKE, WELL, I MEAN, YOU CAN DO.
>> WHATEVER YOU WANT. >> I'M LIKE.
>> I'M. >> JUST LETTING YOU KNOW.
>> LIKE, I DISAGREE. >> I'D RATHER PEOPLE BE HONEST.
>> YEAH. >> NOT ME. I'D RATHER THEM TALK
TO ME THAN ABOUT ME. I'D JUST RATHER HAVE THAT. BUT SOME
PEOPLE AREN'T COMFORTABLE WITH THAT. SO WE DO HAVE TO TEMPER
IT SOMETIMES BECAUSE THEY'LL SAY. THEY'LL SAY MOM AND DAD
ARE FIGHTING. >> MOM AND DAD ARE FIGHTING.
>> MOM AND DAD ARE FIGHTING, AND THEY'LL LAUGH. YOU'RE NOT
FIGHTING BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEY'VE.
>> BEEN WITH US FOR 15 YEARS AND WE'VE NEVER HAD A BLOW UP.
YOU KNOW, LIKE, THEY KNOW IT'S GOING TO BE FINE. BUT IT TOOK A
LOT OF YEARS FOR PEOPLE BECAUSE WE WOULD EVEN HAVE. WE WERE I
WAS A YOUTH PASTOR WHEN WE FIRST GOT MARRIED, AND HE
RAN A BIBLE SCHOOL. AND EARLY ON IN OUR MARRIAGE,
WE WERE STILL REALLY YOUNG, BUT WE ALREADY HAD THIS
PRACTICE OF LIKE BEING VERY HONEST WITH EACH OTHER. AND
IT DOESN'T BOTHER US. WE'RE BOTH A PERSONALITY WHERE
THAT SOME SOME PEOPLE, THAT WOULD BE MUCH HARDER. YOU
KNOW, THEY DON'T HAVE THE SPIRIT TO TAKE THAT KIND OF
LIKE THAT KIND OF DIRECT COMMUNICATION. IT'S TOO HURTFUL.
AND THEY DON'T LIKE THINGS IN PUBLIC. AND, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE
TO KNOW YOUR SPOUSE. AND BUT I, I THINK EARLY ON WE WOULD HAVE
THESE DISCUSSIONS AND THEN TEENAGERS IN OUR YOUTH GROUP
WOULD JUST BE WATCHING, YOU KNOW, LIKE AND THEN THEY WERE
LIKE, WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN? BECAUSE EVERY TIME THAT HAD
HAPPENED IN THEIR HOUSE, IT HAD BEEN FOLLOWED BY A HUGE FIGHT,
VIOLENCE, LEAVING. IT DIDN'T GO WELL, DIVORCE.
AND THEN THEY WOULD WATCH US BE LIKE, OKAY. AND THEN
WE WOULD LIKE GET OUT OF THE MCDONALD'S AND LIKE,
HUG EACH OTHER AND LIKE, GO ON ABOUT OUR BUSINESS. AND
THEY SAID IT WAS THE ONLY REASON THAT THEY GOT
MARRIED, THAT WATCHING US FIGHT CORRECTLY. YEAH.
>> BECAUSE WE WEREN'T DISAGREE. WE WEREN'T EVEN
FIGHTING. >> BUT SOME PEOPLE THINK IF
YOU'RE HAVING A CONFLICT THAT YOU HATE EACH OTHER, BUT FOR US,
IT'S JUST WE'RE JUST DECIDING WHERE WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO
WITH A DISAGREEMENT AND THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE ANY ABUSE. IT'S
NOT GOING TO BE VIOLENT. IT'S NOT GOING TO BE ANY OF THAT. SO
WE CAN HAVE IT IN FRONT OF PEOPLE BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, NOT
LIKE IN A IN A WAY THAT WOULD MAKE PEOPLE UNCOMFORTABLE. BUT
IF YOU FIND MOST KIDS RIGHT NOW, THEY'VE GROWN UP IN A SINGLE
PARENT HOME, MOST OF THEM HAVEN'T GROWN UP WITH THEIR
ORIGINAL MOTHER AND FATHER. SO ALL OF THAT'S VERY
UNCOMFORTABLE FOR THEM, EVEN IF IT'S THE MOST GENTLE
CONVERSATION. SO WATCHING THAT BE RESOLVED, I THINK A LOT OF
TIMES PEOPLE ARE LIKE, NEVER FIGHT IN FRONT OF YOUR KIDS,
AND I DISAGREE. I THINK THAT SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO HAVE A
DISAGREEMENT IN FRONT OF YOUR KIDS SO THAT THEY CAN ALSO SEE
A RESOLUTION. >> THAT'S WHAT WE TRY AND DO.
>> I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT. AND IF WE SIN, IF WE SIN AGAINST
EACH OTHER IN FRONT OF WE HAVE A RULE AT OUR HOUSE LIKE YOU
APOLOGIZE AS LOUD AS YOU OFFENDED. SO IF WE'RE GOING.
>> TO. >> IF WE, LIKE, OFFENDED
EACH OTHER IN FRONT OF EVERYBODY, THEN WE HAVE TO
APOLOGIZE IN FRONT OF EVERYBODY. THERE'S NO LIKE
WHISPERING LIKE, HEY, SORRY ABOUT THAT. LIKE, NO, YOU
JUST CONFRONTED. >> ME IN FRONT OF FIVE.
>> PEOPLE REPENTANT. >> AND WE DO LIKE DAD. I'M
SORRY. >> I SHOULDN'T.
>> HAVE SAID. >> I'M NOT PERFECT, I REPENT.
PLEASE FORGIVE ME. >> IT'S FUNNY, WHEN I REPENT TO
MY THREE YEAR OLD, YOU KNOW. >> IT'S LIKE. IT'S HILARIOUS. I
FORGIVE YOU. >> YOUR SINS ARE REMITTED, DAD.
>> YEAH. RIGHT THERE. YOU KNOW, SHE THROWS HOLY WATER ON YOU.
YEAH. >> DIAPER.
>> THERE'S SOMETHING GOOD ABOUT THAT. KIDS KNOW THAT YOU CAN BE.
YOU CAN MESS UP, BE RESTORED. YOU DON'T HAVE TO HIDE. YEAH.
>> YEAH. >> WELL, I HAVE A GOOD QUESTION
ABOUT KIDS DISCIPLINE. SO WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THIS
A SECOND AGO. ALL THESE DIFFERENT VERSIONS OF.
>> IT SO HARD. >> I'M ALWAYS LIKE, AM I DOING
THE RIGHT THING? >> WELL, I THINK THAT KIDS ARE
WIRED IN DIFFERENT WAYS. AND SO SOMETIMES THAT REQUIRES
DIFFERENT FORMS OF DISCIPLINE. BUT WE ARE CALLED TO RAISE OUR
CHILDREN UP IN THE WAY THEY SHOULD GO WHEN THEY DON'T
ALWAYS KNOW HOW. LIKE MY THREE YEAR OLD DOESN'T KNOW HE
SHOULDN'T HIT THE ONE YEAR OLD SHRED, RIGHT? LIKE HE THINKS
LIKE, THIS IS COOL. SHE'S SMALLER THAN ME.
>> SO IT'S KIND. >> OF LIKE, WHAT COULD GO WRONG?
>> WHAT WOULD HAPPEN? >> YEAH. SHE CAN'T CATCH. NOT
MALICIOUS. >> IT'S JUST CURIOUS.
>> CAUSE AND EFFECT ARE A NEW CONCEPT.
>> WHAT DID YOU GUYS DO? GROWING OR WHAT? HOW DID YOU
GUYS NOT HOW WERE YOU DISCIPLINED. WELL, WHATEVER
THAT WAS. BUT HOW DID YOU GUYS DISCIPLINE AS A UNIT? WHAT WAS
YOUR WHAT WAS YOUR GREAT SUCCESSES IN THAT AND GREAT
FAILURES, IF THERE ARE ANY. >> I'M THE LAW. BRIAN'S GRACE.
>> THIS IS TRUE. I'M THE FUN ONE.
>> I'M MORE FUN. JESSE'S MORE THE HAMMER AND THE LAW. I SEE
THINGS THROUGH A DIFFERENT LENS. LIKE, SOMETIMES I'LL TELL JESSE,
YOU KNOW, SHE WAS RAISED REAL STRICT. SO I'LL BE LIKE, LISTEN,
GOD'S NOT NEARLY AS MAD AT YOU ABOUT EVERYTHING AS YOU THINK
HE IS, AND SHE'LL ANSWER BACK. WELL, HE'S NOT AS HAPPY WITH
YOU. >> ABOUT EVERYTHING YOU THINK
HE IS, RIGHT? I'M NOT NEARLY AS HAPPY AS YOU THINK. HE IS.
>> LIKE. JESUS LOVES ME. BUT I THINK WE WE LEARN PRETTY YOUNG
TO BE A UNITED FRONT WITH OUR KIDS. THAT'S SO. SO WE COME
INTO AGREEMENT, SO THERE'S NO TELLING MOM AND THEN WORKING
DAD LIKE WE'RE A FRONT. WE'RE THE TEAM. WE'RE. WE'RE TOGETHER
TILL WE DIE. IT'S MY COVENANT PARTNER, YOU KNOW, DON'T START
ANY STUFF WITH EITHER ONE OF US AND PLAY US AGAINST US. THAT'S
CONSISTENT. I THINK IT'S GOT TO A NO NO. I THINK YOU GOT TO BE
BE LOVING. I THINK WE HAVE TO TAKE AUTHORITY OVER OUR KIDS.
RIGHT. GOD CHOSE ABRAHAM BECAUSE HE WOULD COMMAND HIS
CHILDREN. THE BIBLE SAYS THAT'S WHY THE FATHER OF FAITH IS THE
FATHER OF FAITH. HE WOULD TAKE AUTHORITY. AND SOMETIMES I SEE
A GROWN 35 YEAR OLD MAN THAT WON'T TAKE AUTHORITY OVER A
THREE YEAR OLD. AND I'M LIKE, OKAY, COME ON, COME ON. I GET.
>> MY $1,000. IF I COULD FIND A 35 YEAR OLD MOM THAT COULD TAKE
CONTROL OF A THREE YEAR. I MEAN, IT'S LIKE YOU'RE IN PUBLIC.
THERE'S NOBODY TAKING AUTHORITY OVER THEIR AREA OF DOMINION
ANYMORE. >> THAT'S MY QUESTION. DON'T
YOU THINK THAT THERE'S AN AUTHORITY THAT THE HUSBAND
CARRIES MORE THAN THE WIFE? OR IT'S BETTER IF THE HUSBAND.
>> YEAH, THERE'S A TIME FOR IT. THERE'S A.
>> TIME. >> LIKE WHEN YOU HAVE A 15,
WHEN YOUR BOYS ARE 15 AND 16 YEARS OLD, YOUR VOICE IS GOING
TO BE EVERY. BECAUSE, I MEAN, THERE'S NOTHING THAT
GETS A 15 YEAR OLD BOY TO STOP IN HIS TRACKS, EXCEPT
FOR. >> THAT AT 13 YOUNG MALES
START TRYING. MOM. >> YEAH.
>> 13. 14. THEY START TRYING, MOM.
>> THAT'S WEIRD. >> THINGS THEY GOTTA YOU KNOW
WHAT THEY'RE DEVELOPING INTO A MAN. THEY DON'T WANT TO BE A
LITTLE KID ANYMORE. THE TEST STARTS FLOWING. LIFE STARTS
CHANGING. >> SHE'S THE THING IN THE WAY
OF THEM BEING A MAN. >> THAT'S RIGHT.
>> BECAUSE SHE'S PROTECTING. >> SHE'S HOLDING THEM BACK. SHE
WANTS TO KEEP THEM SAFE. >> AND THEY DON'T WANT TO BE.
>> SAFE IS TO. OKAY, THIS KID'S GOT TO LEARN TO TO WRECK AND
NOT KILL HIMSELF, RIGHT? WHATEVER. HE'S DRIVING BECAUSE
BOYS ARE GOING TO BE ROUGH AND TUMBLE. BUT THEN THEY THEY GOT
TO HAVE DAD TO STOP FROM CHALLENGING MOM BECAUSE DAD
PROTECTS THE ENVIRONMENT AND HE PROVIDES. SO I THINK JESSE AND
I DID A GOOD JOB. NOT PERFECT JOB. NO, I MEAN, I'VE SAID A
MILLION THINGS I WISH I WOULDN'T HAVE SAID AS.
>> A PARENT. OH, GOSH. >> RIGHT. I MEAN, I'M NOT ONE
OF THESE GUYS THAT I WAS THE PERFECT I'M NO JAMES DOBSON.
>> WHO WENT ON TO BE WITH. THE LORD, BLESS HIM.
>> I WAS ON HIS SHOW ONCE, WHICH WAS INCREDIBLE. ONE GREAT
JAMES DOBSON PROPHESIED TO ME ACCURATELY WOW, ON HIS SHOW ONE.
>> TIME. >> AND MY ATTORNEY SENT IT TO
ME LAST WEEK WHEN DOBSON DIED. LIKE, YOU REMEMBER DOBSON
SAYING THAT? AND I'M LIKE, HOLY MOLY, THAT'S ONE OF THE MOST
ACCURATE THINGS I'VE EVER HEARD. >> BEAUTIFUL. SO, DOBSON.
>> I JUST WANT TO POINT OUT, THOUGH, HE IS ONE OF MY HEROES
OF THE FAITH. AND AND THEN I FOUND OUT HE ONLY HAD TWO KIDS.
I'M LIKE, EVERYTHING IS OUT THE WINDOW.
>> WHAT'S UP? YOU SHOULD HAVE 20. I'M LIKE, I HAVE THREE.
>> WHAT AM I GOING. >> TO DO WITH A MAN THAT ONLY
HAD TWO? >> I KNOW WE'VE TEASED.
>> ABOUT IT FOR YEARS. OF COURSE HE WAS AWESOME, BUT. AND
HIS KIDS ARE GREAT, BUT I, I. LITERALLY TWO.
>> TWO IS. >> LIKE ANOTHER WORLD.
>> TO. >> YOU KNOW, WHATEVER. YOU'VE
PASSED THAT NUMBER. >> YEAH. I THINK YOU GUYS ARE
HEADING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION BECAUSE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IT.
YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT IT. YOU KNOW.
>> IF YOU'RE. >> THINKING ABOUT IT.
>> YOU'RE HALFWAY. >> THERE LEARNING YOUR
PARENTING STYLE. >> WE'RE THINKING A LOT, RIGHT?
>> YOU HAVE TO. RIGHT? >> THINKING, DISCUSSING, ACTING.
>> AND WE COMMUNICATE ABOUT WE'RE REALLY GOOD ABOUT
COMMUNICATING WITH ONE ANOTHER, AND WE ALWAYS END UP ON THE
SAME PAGE. OF COURSE, THE HUSBAND GETS THE FINAL SAY THAT
IS ACCURATE, RIGHT? YEAH. PUT THIS OUT THERE. BECAUSE I THINK
A LOT OF WOMEN IN TODAY'S AGE, THEY WANT TO HAVE THE
FINAL SAY. BUT REALLY THE HUSBAND HAS THE FINAL SAY.
HE LISTENS TO THE WIFE, BUT THE WIFE CAN'T RUN THE
ROOST. >> WELL, HE SOMEBODY HAS TO
PULL THE TRIGGER NO MATTER WHAT.
>> THE TRIGGER. >> PULLER, NO MATTER WHAT
TEAM YOU'RE ON, THERE'S GOT TO BE A QUARTERBACK. HE'S
GOT TO CALL THE PLAYS. I MEAN, THERE HAS TO BE.
POSITION. AND WE ALL HAVE TO EVERYBODY HAS TO KNOW THEIR
WANT TO WIN MORE THAN WE THAN WE THAN WE GET THAN WE WANT
OURSELVES TO GET WHAT WE WANT, LIKE TO GET TO DO WHATEVER WE
WANT TO DO. AND I'VE HAD TO LEARN THAT BECAUSE I WAS IN A
FEMALE DOMINATED HOUSE AND BRIAN WAS IN A MALE DOMINATED
HOUSE. >> GOD REALLY WERE RAISED
OPPOSITE. >> COMPLETE OPPOSITE. SO BUT
FOR ME, THERE'S A JOY IN LIKE, OH MY GOSH, YOU MEAN THAT? HE
PULLS THE TRIGGER? AND THEN WHEN WE STAND BEFORE THE LORD,
HE ASKS HIM. >> BECAUSE I'M LIKE.
>> WE'RE GOING TO. >> DO IT.
>> HAVE IT EASIER. >> YEAH.
>> AND I MIGHT EVEN DISAGREE WITH HIM WHEN WE'RE IN OUR ROOM.
BUT WHEN WE COME OUT, WE GO OUT IN FRONT OF OUR KIDS. WE'RE IN
ONE ACCORD. WE'RE I'M BACK IN HIS PLAY. AND THEN IF IT WINS,
I GO, WOW, WE WON. AND IF IT LOSES, I GO. ME AND DAD DIDN'T
MAKE THE BEST DECISION. I NEVER LIKE THROW HIM UNDER THE BUS,
BECAUSE I THINK YOUR KIDS NEED TO KNOW THAT THIS WAS ALL BOTH
OF YOU. AND YOU'LL APPRECIATE THAT WHEN.
>> YOU GET. >> LISTEN.
>> YOU'LL BE LIKE, MOM DIDN'T TOLD ME THE OTHER DAY.
>> SHE TOLD ME THAT YOU WENT IN TO DISCIPLINE HER AND THAT WHAT
YOU WENT IN TO DO, YOU SAID, WE'RE GOING TO ACT LIKE WE DID
IT. BUT DON'T TELL MOM. >> AND SHE'S.
>> 13 NOW. >> I'M GETTING SOFTER.
>> IN MY OLDER. >> YEARS, RIGHT? I'M MOVED.
ALMOST LIKE I'M. >> DEAD MEAT.
>> SO BAD. >> YOU KNOW?
>> SO I. >> HEAR THAT HAPPENS AS YOU,
ESPECIALLY WITH THE YOUNGER. IT'S NOT.
>> AS SHE'S THE BABY LIGHTER. >> YEAH, 100%.
>> SHE KNOCKED YOU OUT. >> ALL OF OUR CHILDREN HAD
DIFFERENT PARENTS, RIGHT? WITH THE.
>> FIRST ONE. WE WERE SO STRICT. THAT IS.
>> YOU GOT THIS KID. YOU DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE GOING TO SCREW
IT UP OR NOT. YOU'RE, LIKE, ALL TERRIFIED ABOUT IT.
>> SO SCARY. >> DID YOU FIGURE OUT, HEY,
THEY'RE THEY'RE PRETTY TOUGH. THEY SURVIVE A LOT OF STUFF.
AND BY THE THIRD ONE, YOU'RE LIKE, YEAH, THE LORD, THE LORD
WILL RAISE YOU. I'LL, YOU KNOW, I'LL BE THERE AT YOUR
GRADUATION. >> DO YOURSELF.
>> A FAVOR. AND WITH YOUR OLDEST ONE, LET SOME THINGS GO,
EVEN IF YOU THINK THEY'RE A HUGE DEAL. AND WITH YOUR BABY,
REMEMBER TO GET IN THE GAME. >> YEAH.
>> I THINK WOMEN AS A WHOLE, THOUGH, MAKE MOST MEN BETTER.
PARENTS LIKE JESSE CARED. JESSE RESEARCHED. I'M LIKE, THEY'RE
KIDS. THEY'RE LIKE DOGS OR COWS. THEY'RE GOING TO GROW UP.
THEY'LL BE FINE. >> AND SHE'S.
>> OBSESSING ABOUT THESE THINGS. >> YEAH.
>> SO HER OBSESSION. >> PUT ONIONS IN THEIR SOCKS.
I'M LIKE, WHATEVER, YOU DO IT. >> YEAH, 100%.
>> I THINK THAT'S GOD'S DIVINE DESIGN. YEAH. YOU KNOW WHAT I
MEAN? TO MAKE YOU BETTER. THEY'RE OBSESSIVE. IT MAKES YOU
BETTER. >> BIG PICTURE DETAILS. YEAH.
AND YOU GUIDE I FOLLOW BECAUSE, I MEAN, HE MAKES A LOT OF
THINGS EASY. THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS I DON'T HAVE TO THINK
ABOUT BECAUSE HE'S LEADING. AND SO I CAN'T OBSESS BECAUSE HE'S
HANDLING OTHER STUFF. >> YEAH. WITH KIDS Y'ALL'S AGE,
THESE WERE THE THINGS OUR PASTORS HAMMERED WITH US.
NUMBER ONE WAS, I'M LOOKING FOR A MAN THAT CAN TAKE AUTHORITY
OVER A THREE YEAR OLD. HE WOULD SAY THAT A LOT AND MAKE THE
TABLES UNCOMFORTABLE. >> WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
>> BECAUSE PEOPLE WOULD LET KIDS JUST RUN ROUGHSHOD, LIKE,
YOU'RE IN A RESTAURANT AND THERE'S PEOPLE OUT SPENDING
THEIR MONEY TO EAT, AND SOME KIDS JUST GOING WILD AND
NOBODY'S TENDING TO IT. >> AND IT'S NOT THAT IT'S NOT
THE KID'S PROBLEM. BECAUSE THEY'RE LITTLE, BUT IT'S THE
ADULT'S PROBLEM BECAUSE THEY WON'T GET UP AND PHYSICALLY
REMOVE THE CHILD AND WALK THEM OUT TO THE SIDEWALK UNTIL THEY
GET CALMED DOWN AND LOVE THEM. >> RIGHT.
>> IT'S OUR JOB TO TAKE AUTHORITY OVER THAT SITUATION,
NOT THE CHILD'S JOB TO EMOTIONALLY REGULATE THEMSELVES.
>> IT STARTS AT THAT AGE, AND THEN IT TRICKLES INTO THE REST
OF THE KID'S LIFE. SECOND THING HE WAS BIG ON IS IS AND HE
TAUGHT US THIS PASTOR BILL SHEER GUTS CHURCH, TULSA,
OKLAHOMA. SO HE WOULD SAY THIS LIKE A KIDS OUT OF LINE. WE GOT
THIS. IT WAS IF AN ADULT SAYS NO, RIGHT. IF YOU SAY NO, IF
WE'D SAY THIS TO OUR KIDS 100 TIMES BACK IN A DAY, IF AN
ADULT SAYS NO, WHAT DO YOU DO? AND THEY WOULD SAY, DROP IT.
YOU KNOW, A KID WILL ASK YOU AND ASK YOU AND.
>> ASK YOU. >> OH, IT'S SO ANNOYING, RIGHT?
>> KEEP COMING AT YOU. ON THE SAME TOPIC. THERE'S GOT TO BE A
PUT THAT INTO US. IF AN ADULT TIME YOUR WORD MATTERS. AND HE
SAYS NO, YOU DROP IT. THERE WAS A THIRD THING WE USED BACK THEN
THAT WE LEARNED FROM ANOTHER PASTOR. HE HAD LIKE HE HAD A
TRIBE OF KIDS. >> YES, HE.
>> DID RIGHT. WE WORKED WITH HIM UP ABOVE KANSAS.
>> CITY. >> 6 OR 7, I THINK.
>> AND NOW WE'RE TALKING. >> YEAH. A GUY I CAN LEARN.
>> FROM THAT GUY. >> YEAH.
>> HE HAD A TRIBE. WE WERE NEWLY.
>> MARRIED, AND HE. >> WAS KIND. YOU KNOW HOW
SOME PEOPLE ARE, LIKE, SUPER DOMINANT, LIKE OVER
THE TOP AND, LIKE, THEIR KIDS DON'T TALK AND THEY
LOOK TERRIFIED. I DON'T WANT THOSE KIDS. THAT'S NOT
WHO. >> I DON'T WANT.
>> TO BREAK. >> THEIR SPIRIT. YEAH.
>> I. >> WANT THEM TO HAVE SO
MUCH SPIRIT. RIGHT. >> BUT HE WOULD POINT
THEY'D BE DOING SOMETHING. HE WOULD. THEY KNEW THEY WERE
DOING SOMETHING WRONG. RIGHT? YOU KNOW HOW YOU'RE RUNNING
AROUND CLIMBING A WALL OR SOMETHING YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED
TO BE DOING? HE'D POINT AND HE WOULD SAY, HE WOULDN'T SAY A
THEN HE POINTED HIS HEART AND WORD. HE POINTED HIS EAR, AND
IT MEANT LISTEN AND OBEY. AND WHEREVER THAT MAN WAS, HE COULD
DO IT. HE'D GET MY ATTENTION AFTER I KNEW WHAT HE'S DOING.
HE'S A HE WAS A MAN. BUT IT'S LIKE, LISTEN AND OBEY. AND I
PARENTING. WE'RE TRAINING THEM THINK THERE'S SOMETHING ABOUT
TO LEARN, TO LISTEN AND TO OBEY THE VOICE OF GOD, BECAUSE IT'S
NOT ALWAYS GOING TO BE OUR VOICE. IT'S OUR VOICE FOR A
SHORT PERIOD OF TIME. IT'S GOD'S VOICE FOR.
>> THE REST. >> I THINK THAT'S WHY IT'S
IMPORTANT PEOPLE FORGET THAT THAT THAT'S WHY IT'S
IMPORTANT FOR THEM TO LISTEN, NOT BECAUSE YOU
WANT THEM TO OBEY. I TELL MY KIDS ALL THE TIME, I'M
NOT GOING TO BE ANYWHERE YOU ARE IN A FEW YEARS, AND
YOU'RE GOING TO NEVER HEAR MY VOICE EXCEPT FOR WHEN
YOU WHEN WE SEE EACH OTHER. BUT GOD'S VOICE WILL ALWAYS
BE THERE. I'M JUST THE PRACTICE ROUND FOR GOD. AND
IF YOU CAN HEAR MY VOICE AND OBEY IT, THEN YOU CAN
HEAR GOD'S VOICE AND OBEY IT. I'LL TELL YOU THIS
STORY. IT WILL MAKE YOU FEEL BETTER ABOUT YOUR
PARENTING. MY SON, WE WERE IN CHURCH ONE NIGHT AND
WE'RE PASTORS, YOU KNOW, SO WE WERE PREACHING AND
MINISTERING TO PEOPLE IN THE ALTAR. MY MY SON WAS
FOUR YEARS OLD. WE'RE IN THIS 40 FOOT TALL SANCTUARY
AND ONE OF THE ONE OF HIS BUDDIES THAT WAS THERE.
ANOTHER PREACHER'S KID, OF COURSE, WAS SAYING TO HIM,
HEY, WOULDN'T IT BE FUN IF WE IF WE WENT AND GOT ON
THEATER CURTAIN THAT WENT UP THAT CURTAIN? IT WAS A HUGE
40FT IN THE AIR. AND MY SON WAS STRONG. HE WAS ALWAYS IN THE
TREES CLIMBING. WE WERE FROM KENTUCKY. HE PLAYED OUTSIDE ALL
THE TIME. HE WAS JUST TOUGH AS COULD BE. AND HE GOES, YEAH,
WELL, THEY STARTED LIFTING THAT THEATER CURTAIN UP BECAUSE
CHURCH WAS OVER. THEY WERE GOING TO START CLEANING THE
SANCTUARY, AND THAT THEATER CURTAIN STARTED GOING UP AND I
SAW MY SON SPRINTING. WELL, I'M IN THE ALTAR. I CAN'T
GET TO HIM. AND I KNOW HE CAN GRAB HOLD OF THIS THING.
AND HE LITERALLY GRABS IT, AND HE RIDES IT UP TO ABOUT
15FT IN THE AIR, AND HIS LITTLE BODY.
>> IS JUST. >> DANGLING, AND THE WHOLE
CHURCH. >> IS, OH, LIKE THIS. AND I
GO, JUSTICE. >> WHATEVER YOU DO, DO NOT LET
GO, BECAUSE I'M THINKING WE CAN GET A LADDER. WE CAN GET TO HIM
LIKE THEY'VE. >> STOPPED THE CURTAIN.
>> HE'S FOUR. >> WOW.
>> AND THAT IS TERRIBLE. >> I WAS. MAYBE FIVE I.
>> LITTLE AND I AM THINKING, DEAR JESUS, IF HE DROPS FROM
THERE, HE IS GOING. EVERY BONE IN HIS BODY IS GOING TO CRUMBLE,
YOU KNOW. AND SO I'M STANDING UNDER HIM AND I'M THINKING, I
JUST NEED TO STAY CALM, MY VOICE CALM. YOU KNOW, YOU'RE
DOING ALL THE PARENTING THINGS. AND HE LOOKS AT ME AND LIKE A
LITTLE JUST CRAZY KID. HE GOES, AND HE LETS GO.
>> NOW HIS. >> BODY DROPS AND THE WHOLE
SANCTUARY. >> YOU KNOW, LIKE THIS.
>> AND HE JUMPS AND LANDS JUST LIKE A.
>> CAT POPPED. >> UP AND RAN OFF AND PLAYED
WITH HIS FRIENDS. AND I THOUGHT, OH, JESUS. AND I'LL TELL YOU
THIS, WHEN OUR KIDS WERE SUPER YOUNG, I WOULD SAY, GOD, I
WOULD JUST BE CONCERNED ABOUT A LOT OF THINGS AND I WOULD BE
TOO ANXIOUS AND I WOULD THINK ABOUT IT. AND THEN GOD SHOWED
ME THAT HE WOULD ASSIGN AN ANGEL TO MY CHILDREN, THAT EACH
ONE OF THEM, THAT THEY WOULD REPORT TO THE THRONE ROOM OF
HEAVEN FOR MY KIDS. IF I WOULD ASK GOD TO, TO PROTECT THEM,
THAT HE WOULD ASSIGN PROTECTION TO THEM. AND SO I WOULD SEND
THAT WITH THEM. AND THAT DAY, I MEAN, THERE'S NOTHING YOU CAN
DO. THERE ARE SOME THINGS, THERE'S JUST NOTHING YOU CAN DO.
AND YOUR KIDS HAVE TO TRY. THEY HAVE TO PUSH THE BOUNDARIES.
THEY HAVE TO LIVE. AND IN THIS DAY AND AGE, YOU KNOW, KIDS
USED TO LEAVE AND COME BACK AT DINNER TIME WHEN THEIR MOM
YELLED FOR THEM. BUT NOW WE WATCH EVERYTHING AND WE'RE
INVOLVED IN EVERYTHING. AND I DO THINK IT'S HARMFUL IN SOME
WAYS. I THINK THERE'S PLACES WHERE AS LONG AS OUR BOYS ARE
DOING DANGEROUS THINGS AND OUR GIRLS ARE DOING DANGEROUS
THINGS IN A, YOU KNOW, THAT WASN'T SAFE WHAT HE WAS DOING.
I NEEDED THE ANGELS THAT DAY TO PROTECT HIM. BUT WE HAVE TO
ALLOW OUR KIDS SOME FREEDOM TO LIVE AND TO LEARN AND THEIR
KIND OF IMPACT IT CAN TAKE AND BODIES TO LEARN. WHAT CAN WHAT
WHAT THEIR MINDS, WHAT KIND OF IMPACT IT CAN TAKE. BECAUSE
WHEN YOU ALLOW A CHILD TO GET HIT, TO GET HURT, TO GET INTO
FIGHTS WITH THEIR FRIENDS, TO ALL THAT STUFF, AND YOU DON'T
BREAK IT ALL APART. WHAT YOU BUILD IN THEM IS EMPATHY. AND
THAT CAN ONLY BE LEARNED THROUGH EXPERIENCE. AND WHEN
YOU ALLOW A KID TO HAVE THOSE HITS IN LIFE, YOU'RE ALLOWING
THEM TO BECOME AN EMPATHETIC ADULT. AND THAT'S BEAUTIFUL.
THAT MAKES A GOOD SPOUSE, THAT MAKES A GOOD FRIEND,
THAT MAKES A LOT OF THINGS. YOU CAN'T INSTILL EMPATHY
IN A KID WITHOUT LIFE EXPERIENCE. AND A LOT OF
PEOPLE, THOSE PSYCHOPATHS THAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT,
THAT THAT SOCIOPATH THAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT, THEY
DID THEY DON'T HAVE THAT LEVEL OF EMPATHY. AND IT'S
BECAUSE PEOPLE HAVE GUARDED THEM FROM EXPERIENCING LIFE.
AND WE DO WANT OUR KIDS NOT TO BE HURT, BUT WE TAKE IT
SOMETIMES TO THE POINT WHERE WE DON'T LET THEM
EXPERIENCE THE LIFE THAT GOD'S GIVEN FOR THEM.
>> THAT'S GREAT. THAT'S A GOOD PLACE TO END ON.
UNLESS YOU HAVE ANY LAST THOUGHTS.
>> NO. >> NO, I MEAN, THAT WAS AWESOME.
I KNOW WE WERE JUST GOING TO TALK ABOUT MARRIAGE, BUT I LOVE
TALKING ABOUT PARENTING TOO, BECAUSE IT'S SO INTERTWINED.
>> AND WE'RE IN THE. >> THICK OF IT RIGHT NOW, YOU
KNOW? >> YEAH.
>> NOT THAT. I MEAN, WE'RE JUST IN A.
>> I DON'T KNOW IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT. I SAID THAT TO
SOMEBODY THE OTHER DAY. I WAS LIKE, WE'RE IN THE THICK OF IT
WITH THE ONE YEAR OLD, THREE YEAR OLD AND FIVE YEAR OLD.
HE'S LIKE, OH NO, I HAVE A FRESHMAN AND A SEVENTH GRADER
I'M IN THE THICK OF IT, SO I AND A SENIOR IN HIGH SCHOOL.
THINK EVERYONE THINKS THEY'RE IN THE THICK OF IT.
>> IT CHANGES. >> THE THICK. LASTS A LONG TIME.
YEAH, EXACTLY. >> WHERE Y'ALL ARE IS CRAZY
TOWN. I THINK IT'S CRAZY IN A WAY, BUT YOU GOT A LITTLE MORE
CONTROL, RIGHT? THE GUY WITH THE HIGH SCHOOL, COLLEGE AGE,
HE. YOU KNOW, IT'S ON THEM A LOT. SOME OF IT'S ON HIM. A LOT
OF IT'S ON THEM NOW. IT'S A DIFFERENT TYPE OF FAITH. RIGHT.
BUT I'LL SAY THIS. IF I COULD DO ANYTHING OVER, THE ONLY
THING I REALLY REGRET IN MY WHOLE LIFE IS I WISH I'D HAVE
HAD MORE. >> YEAH.
WHAT I MEAN? AND NOW THEY'RE >> I GOT THREE KIDS, YOU KNOW
GROWING UP. >> THE ONLY THING WE CHANGE.
EVEN THE BAD STUFF. IT'S THE ONLY THING I WOULD CHANGE.
>> WHEN YOU WALK IN NOW WITH, WELL, GOD, SPIRIT EMPOWERED,
TRAINED KIDS. LIKE WE WALK IN AS A FAMILY NOW AND IT'S LIKE
THERE'S A STRENGTH TO IT. LIKE WE CAN TAKE OVER. YOU'RE
STARTING TO SEE WHAT YOUR KIDS CAN RUN AND DO AND PRODUCE. AND
IT'S LIKE, THIS IS WHAT'S TAKEN OVER THE EARTH WHEN I'M GONE.
SO DON'T LET THE CRAZINESS, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? TAKE AWAY
WHAT YOU'RE BUILDING BECAUSE IT'S NOT GOING TO BE LONG. TEN
YEARS. YOU'RE IN A DIFFERENT GAME.
>> OH NO. IT'S IT'S IT'S A TOTAL GAME CHANGER. AND THEY'RE
THE IT'S LIKE THE JOY OF LIFE. LIKE EVERYTHING YOU BUILD WITH
YOUR HANDS. THERE'S SOME THERE'S SOMETHING FROM IT. EVEN
CHURCH AND MINISTRY, THERE'S SOMETHING FROM IT. BUT IT IS
NOT LIKE WHAT YOU BUILD WITH YOUR BODY IS GAME CHANGING,
LIKE WHAT YOU PRODUCE THROUGH THE FRUIT OF YOUR BODY. AND IF
YOU GET IN THE GAME AND LIKE, I THINK THE BIGGEST THING PARENTS,
THEY'RE SO DISTRACTED RIGHT NOW, THEY DON'T PHYSICALLY GET UP
AND MOVE THEIR BODY TO THAT CHILD. SO THEY'RE JUST
CONSTANTLY GIVING LIKE A VERBAL CUE. YEAH, BUT THEY'RE NOT LIKE
I WATCH YOUNG PARENTS. AND WE WERE TEMPTED BECAUSE WE WERE SO
TIRED. WE WERE LIKE BUILDING A CHURCH AND OUR WHOLE BODY JUST
WANTED. AND WE MADE OURSELVES GET UP AND WE WERE SO EXHAUSTED.
AND I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WE DIDN'T PUSH TO HAVE
MORE KIDS. AND I, BECAUSE WE WERE FULLY ENGAGED, RAISING
THEM LIKE WE WOULD GET UP AND MOVE AND, YOU KNOW, TAKE THEIR
BODY AND HELP THEM AND GET IN AT THEIR EYE LEVEL AND DO ALL,
YOU KNOW, WE WERE VERY COMMITTED TO THAT FORM OF
PARENTING. >> YOU WERE INTENTIONAL.
AND I'M LIKE, MAN, I JUST WISH >> YES. AND I, I, I SEE IT NOW
SO BAD THAT WE WOULD HAVE HAD MORE OF THEM, EVEN THOUGH AT
THE TIME I THOUGHT IF WE HAVE ANY MORE, I MIGHT NOT WAKE UP
TOMORROW. BUT THEY'RE THE THEY'RE THE GREATEST JOY. AND
YOU WATCH WHAT YOU'VE TRAINED THEM. YOU DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THEY
REMEMBERED. AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN THEY START LIVING IT
AND IT'S IN FRONT OF YOU AND YOU'RE LIKE, I DIDN'T
EVEN KNOW THEY KNEW. I SAID THAT, YOU KNOW, AND THEY'RE
RESPONDING TO TO OTHER PEOPLE WITH THE SAME STUFF
AND LIVING OUT THEIR LIFE, EVEN WHEN THEY'RE MAKING
BIG MISTAKES, IT'S STILL FUN.
>> I HAVE A. >> FRIEND TO WATCH.
>> THE PHONE WITH JUST BEFORE THIS TODAY, AND THEY
JUST DROVE UP TO SEATTLE WITH THEIR KIDS AND I WAS
LIKE, SO DO YOU GUYS HAVE THE SPRINTER VAN NOW?
BECAUSE THEY HAVE SIX? AND HE'S LIKE, NO. WE WENT
AHEAD AND GOT A SCHOOL BUS AND THEY HAVE A SCHOOL BUS.
>> HE'S GOT THE BUS. >> ON THE BUS.
>> HE WENT ALL IN. >> YEAH.
>> I LOVE IT. >> THAT'S I DON'T EVEN.
YEAH. SPRINTER VAN MIGHT NOT HOLD THEM ALL.
>> NO THAT'S AWESOME. >> YEAH THAT IS AWESOME. WELL
GUYS THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JUST IMPARTING WISDOM. AND YOU KNOW
WHAT I LOVE ABOUT Y'ALL IS THAT I CAN TELL THAT Y'ALL REALLY
ARE ON THE SAME TEAM. AND YOU GUYS LOVE BEING TOGETHER. AND I
THINK THAT'S JUST SUCH A TESTAMENT. LIKE A COUPLE THAT
LOVES TO BE TOGETHER, LOVES TO DO MINISTRY TOGETHER, AND WORKS
IN UNITY TOGETHER. THAT REALLY TAKES TIME AND EFFORT. AND SO
THANK YOU FOR JUST TAKING THIS TIME TO TEACH US ABOUT
MARRIAGE AND PARENTING. I'M GOING TO READ THE BOOK.
WE'RE GOING TO READ THE BOOK LOVE HANDLES.
>> LOVE HANDLES. >> AND I THINK WE CAN JUST
END ON THAT NOTE AND JUST SAY, THANK YOU SO MUCH, GUYS.
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.