Rebecca: Hey, guys. Welcome back to the podcast.
I'm here with Zack Wendell.
We're talking about your new book, "The Bible Simplified."
Give us a little quick description on that.
Zack: Thank you so much for having me.
First off, this is--awesome to be here.
Oh my goodness.
New book, it's called "The Bible Simplified."
It basically builds your foundational understanding of
the entire storyline of Scripture.
I think so many people are overwhelmed and confused by the
Bible and they don't know where to begin with it, and I really
want to boost your confidence to make you confident in your faith
so that, yeah, you can pick up the Bible and you actually know
what's going on in it.
Rebecca: I'm just so passionate about this because I grew up in
church and I did not understand how to read the Bible,
especially the Old Testament.
Oh my goodness.
I mean, I would open it and just be like, "What on earth."
And I'm so passionate about this because it wasn't until I went
to Bible school when I was 19 and I was taught these things
about historical context and these different varying factors,
and I remember so many of us in the school we looked at each
other and were like, "Why don't they teach this in church?
This would help so many people."
Zack: So much.
I don't get it.
Rebecca: No, and there's really--what I love about this
resource--'cause I remember even talking to my professors because
they're these scholars that have these doctorates and they were
able to teach the Bible with such depth and clarity and there
was so much like--almost like meat or depth to the teaching,
and I remember going to them and being like, "Well, what
commentaries do you use?"
But they're at such this high scholarly level that I'm like,
"I--my mind is not there."
And so we need something like this that's going to come down
and help the normal, common person like me understand
Scripture because there is a history and there's a lot of--I
mean, like thousands of years of history and there is a culture
and there is a people as Gentiles in the New Covenant,
you know, looking through but yet it all does connect, and
there is a purpose.
And when you can see things as a whole together, there--it's like
the Word comes alive and you get excited.
Zack: Yes, yes, absolutely.
That's why I have such a passion for it because it's like if I
would have had a book like this or an understanding of Scripture
in general from an early age it would have changed my entire
trajectory of my life and my relationship with the Word.
So if I can create anything that would benefit those people that
are in my shoes 15 years ago, I'm going to because I want to
see their lives transformed.
Rebecca: Yeah.
And what's cool is that, you know, one of the things--and
we'll get into your story, but one of the things they say is
the thing that you suffer with or the pro--you--the problem you
experience, God's calling you to help solve, and so that is
your story.
You were in this predicament, but look what came out of it.
So let's get into your story.
So growing up, grew up in a Christian home, saw God
move miraculously.
Zack: Yeah, totally from a really early age.
So my mom is a four-time cancer survivor.
So when I was 4, she was sent home with a 5% chance to live
because she had stage 4 ovarian cancer and was healed from that.
It's like, "Wow, praise God.
Incredible."
Then she had a tumor on her sciatic nerve and was
miraculously healed from that.
And then she had colon cancer with three-quarters of her colon
removed, was healed from that.
And then when I was 15, she had breast cancer, double mastectomy
and was healed from that.
So literally from 4 to 15 I'm seeing my mom in and out of the
hospital, never knowing if she's going to make it and--but
through the whole thing I knew that God was good and that he
had a plan behind it and that she was still around in order
to--for some reason, whatever that was in the moment.
So she always just taught me that, "God is good, and he has a
plan for all of this."
So that was really the foundation of who I became as a
person and really, like, what my mentality is in life, but--even
though I saw him move in amazing ways and I grew up in the church
and I knew these stories and I had Bible verses memorized, when
I hit 17, when I hit college, it was like I'm trying to do things
on my own a little bit.
I think I was just so influenced by the people around me and
culture and wanting to do cool things and a lot of Christians
that I knew weren't that cool, I think it was.
Like, that's what it was.
And so had this, like, moment where I was trying to do
everything myself for years, and it wasn't really until I hit a
low spot in 2014 where I was like, "Okay, God, if you're
good, if you're real, I'm going all in on this and I need you to
show up, prove to me that this is from you; prove to me that
you are good, that this is the plan, that this is who I should
associate my life with."
And then I said, "God, I'm going to give you 2 years.
Prove that you're real."
And ended up moving out to Australia to study the Bible
really intensely in this program where we studied 12 hours a day,
6 days a week, like, as deep as you possibly could
and--yeah, literally.
By the end of it, we had like a whole commentary written on
every book of the Bible and that process completely changed
my life.
I'd say it was day two out there when I'm really understanding
the history and the context of Scripture that everything
shifted for me and I was like, "Oh, this is way bigger than I
thought it was.
This isn't just a book of stories, this is a history book
of things that happened to real people in a real time and it's
meant to be used in order to show me where I'm going in my
life and what God's really doing in the world and I get to be a
part of that, which is incredible."
Rebecca: It's wild when the things you kind of hear about
the Word of God your whole life become real to you and you see
it through new eyes.
It's like one of the most exciting things.
I remember being in Bible college and I began to learn the
concepts of revelation and how God reveals himself, the Holy
Spirit reveals God through his Word, how it comes alive and it
completely shifted things for me and then I became so excited to
study Scripture because it wasn't something I was
doing alone.
I was inviting the Holy Spirit into it 'cause--you know, Paul
says in Ephesians, he says, "I pray that your hearts would be
flooded with light--the eyes of your hearts be flooded with
light so that you'd be able to understand these things."
And so these spiritual--this revelation that Paul
pontificates through all of these Epistles, you know, the
revelation of Jesus, is something that you cannot
understand in your own mind on your own.
It's something in humility you have to receive through
revelation and through studying his Word, and it is--it will
take you on almost like a treasure hunt where you can find
the deepest pearls of wisdom that will completely transform
your life.
Zack: Absolutely.
That's why you can't just read the Bible one time.
You need to fall in love with it for the rest of your life.
You could read it 100 times and get something different from it
every single time.
So the same Holy Spirit that inspired the text is the Holy
Spirit that we have.
So--literally.
So, of course, he wants to teach us things.
So that's the coolest thing ever.
The fact that he was part--like, he wrote it through people, and
he wants to help us understand it.
That's awesome.
Rebecca: I love in John 14-16 where Jesus is kind of
downloading, explaining to--he's about to go to the cross and
he's trying to kind of give as much to his disciples before he
goes, and he goes in this whole thing about the Holy Spirit and
he says, "I'm sending you someone.
He will lead you into all truth."
And he says, you know, he's--in the Greek, that word
he--basically parakletos.
"He's just like me," you know.
But what's so cool, he says, "He's going to lead you into all
truth and he's going to basically teach you about me."
And so that's who God has given us.
And I think it's in Romans it says the Holy Spirit searches
the deep things of God and then reveals them to us.
And so there's this thing where it's like Holy Spirit has been
given to us that we may understand Jesus better.
And so people try to separate, but they're--you know, it's like
no, this--no.
Zack: You can't, it's both. It's literally Spirit and Bible.
Like, we need both in our life.
Rebecca: We need both.
And sometimes people emphasize one or the other and ni--it's
not to be isolated.
Zack: No, not at all.
It can't just be Spirit, and it can't just be Bible.
It has to be the two together 'cause otherwise you're going to
miss out on so much in life.
Like, God's going to do incredible things through us.
And if we only know the Word and don't have the Spirit, oh man,
life is going to be so much less of an adventure than it could be
with the Spirit moving through us, and so, yeah--
Rebecca: It becomes more of a head thing and you have to be
careful 'cause it's like learning is not bad, information
is not bad, but that alone it's not relation--it's God.
Jesus transforms us through relationship.
We don't get--we can't transform ourselves through
our mind-reading.
We have to combine--he says, "Abide in me and then you'll
bear fruit."
So we can't do anything apa--he says, "Apart from me you can
do nothing."
So we have to be rooted in him. Now, we still need to study.
Paul says to Timothy, you know, "Study yourselves to show
approved by the--you know, the Word of God."
And so that study is so essential, but, like you said,
it's that beautiful combination 'cause I--you know, with people,
if they get so focused on knowledge, I've noticed people
tend to become stale.
Like, you need the love of God, and they can become
sometimes prideful.
So that's one extreme.
On the other extreme, if you're--if it's just Spirit and
it's--a lot of times it's not even the Holy Spirit, it's just
people's kind of weird interpretations of the Spirit.
You need the Word of God to ground and balance that out or
you're just going to be like koo-koo, yeah.
Zack: And I feel like there's a certain people that go really
deep with studying, but then the average person doesn't even know
where to begin with studying.
Rebecca: That was me, yeah. I was like, "What do I do?"
Zack: Right.
There's like so many resources available that that alone can be
overwhelming, and most of the scholars don't know how to talk
in like normal, everyday language.
So I'm reading through things and I'm like, "I want to know
this and I want other people to know this, but I can barely
grasp it."
Rebecca: It's a gift to be able to take stuff up here and go
down, and not many people have that gift.
I had a professor in school.
He was teaching.
It was--our Bible--my Bible school was so small 'cause I was
like in the first class of its launching.
And so I was in a class with master's and undergrad, and we
were undergrad and my professor started teaching and we all just
looked at him and we're like, "We don't understand a thing
you're saying."
And he literally in that second goes, "Oh."
Went down a couple of levels and then we understood, yeah.
Zack: You have to say things a lot of the times as if it's for
like a 6th grader just so that, like, most people can understand
it and--yeah, exactly.
And look at how many people he impacted.
Incredible, yeah.
Rebecca: But you don't have to sacrifice the depth or the
scholarly, you know, dedication because there is that accuracy.
You don't have to sacrifice that by putting--and that's why "The
Bible Simplified," you're taking these deep and these
intellectual things that are going to be--that are going to
help people and you're putting it down in a way that they
can understand.
Zack: And it's really about, like, filling in the blank a lot
of the time and showing where we're at, like, in the
storyline, for instance, like--
Rebecca: I love that.
Zack: First time you went to Israel, how did that change your
understanding of Scripture?
Wasn't it insane?
Like, actually seeing things in person is like, "Whoa, this
is real."
Rebecca: Not just like a movie that I've seen or like a
cartoon, yeah.
Zack: And it comes from, like, filling in the gaps and actually
having a vision and understanding of what was going
on at the time.
And so for me with this book and for most of my content I'm
looking at everything and I'm like, "Okay, why--" I'm asking
the why question all the time.
Like, "Why is this written the way it is?
Who is it written to?
What it--what were they going through at the time?"
And by filling in those gaps, it'll make books like Hosea make
so much more sense when you're at church on Sunday and your
pastor's talking about it and it's like, "Oh, that's what's
going on."
Because if we don't have the context, we're missing out on so
much 'cause literally everything Jesus said and did was a
fulfillment of the Old Testament.
So we need to know the Bible as a whole.
It was--it's a story from beginning to end and there's
different styles of writing in it and by--
Rebecca: Yeah, even that.
You can speak to that.
There's like wisdom literature.
There's poetry.
There's like Paul writing, like, a letter to the church.
And so even that helps you understand.
Zack: Absolutely.
Like, you can say like, "Oh, I take the Bible literally," but
then you'll read metaphors and it's like, well, clearly
you don't.
Like, you need to understand it in the context.
There's poetry.
A third of the Bible is poetry, 50% of the Bible is story, and
then the rest is like discourse, like trying to get a point
across or a teaching.
And if you don't read it in that regard, then you're going to be
thrown out a lot of the time.
But for us in the West, we have a Greek understanding of life.
So we approach everything from, like, data and facts and we want
to know proof, but the Bible's written by people with a Hebrew
and an Eastern mindset to an audience that's also Hebrew
and Eastern.
So for us we can't approach it the same way that we would any
of our texts in the West.
We can't be like, "Well, Genesis 1 is like a science textbook,"
when they're like, "Well, this is a poem about the
Creation account."
But it--so when we understand that, that it was written in a
different mindset, it'll change the way that you read it,
I believe.
Rebecca: Yeah, I remember learning about that because you
just grew up with the mindset you have and so it's like, "In
America we're very individual-minded.
In the West, we're very--" Like you said, that--kind of like
that Greek, like, mathematical.
We want to dissect things and everything perfectly goes into
their box and their categories and their spaces and in--one of
the things--you can correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I
remember one of the things with an Eastern mindset is they're
okay that God can be merciful and kind but he's also just.
You know, they--and they're okay with mystery and it's like they
don't--everything doesn't have to fit in their perfect
little boxes.
And so that's one of the reasons why we struggle because it is
written in that way.
Zack: Definitely.
Yeah, it's that tension of, like, love and holiness, but for
us we're like, "Well, God can't be angry if he's all-loving."
It's like, "No."
Like, God actually doesn't like the wicked and, like, they will
be punished.
The Bible, like, says so much about that, and we get that in
the parables.
There's what, like 26 parables that Jesus teaches?
And the majority of them are not taught in church because they're
uncomfortable for us in the West to hear a lot of the times
because they are, like, so much more focused on judgment or
holiness, but like--
Rebecca: Yeah, he really gets into that.
But you said on another program something that I love to talk
about, which is you love the book of Matthew because it gives
this Jewish perspective of Jesus.
And for me growing up, the Gospels were so confusing and I
feel like it's like everyone's like, "Start here," which I--you
totally can start there.
But I was confused and then I took a class in Bible school
that talks about the Jewish Jesus and it talks about how he
is a ra--he was a rabbi and how his teaching style--what is
rabbinical teaching like during that time period and the Gospels
began to make so much more sense to me.
Like, this phrase where it's like if your eyes are dark or
whatever it is and the--it's like a completely
different understanding.
And so if you take--if you lack historical context to that time,
you'll interpret things in a weird way.
So these things that he was saying that was just like going
over my head I was like, "Oh, that's what that is."
Because I was just like, "I don't understand what he's
talking about," yeah.
Zack: Yeah.
Like, we'll read the Gospels and it'll be like Jesus goes up to
these guys and says, "Follow me."
And they leave everything behind to go follow him and you're
like, "What's going on here?
That doesn't even make sense."
And whe--then when you understand what's actually
taking place, like, these guys would have grown up, they would
have studied the Bible so intensely, they would have had
the Torah memorized by the time they're 12 or 13 and then if
they were good enough they would have continued on in school or
they would have continued to memorize and study even more and
at that point most people would have gone and worked at their
family business because they weren't good enough and--but the
ones that were, they would go to a rabbi and say like, "I want to
study under you."
And the rabbi would test them and see if they actually would
be a good disciple; and if they were, then the rabbi would say,
"Come, follow me."
And they would leave everything behind and follow him.
And so you have all of these fishermen and a tax collector
that are working in their family business because they never felt
like they were good enough because society said that they
weren't and now you have a rabbi coming up to them saying, "Come,
follow me"?
Of course you would leave everything behind because that's
what you lived your entire childhood wishing for and hoping
for and everybody said you weren't good enough, but now
he's saying that you are.
Those understandings shift the Gospels so much.
Rebecca: Yeah, and then it makes so much more sense and you
realize, like, this is considered like one of the
highest honors.
It's like of course you'd follow the rabbi around, you know.
Zack: Absolutely. Yeah, incredible.
Rebecca: What would you say about the parables?
Giving some context, were those stories that were--like commonly
used and so they were something that the culture was used to
hearing or?
Zack: I think it was very common for people to speak in parables,
and it beco--it comes from that Eastern mindset of like speaking
in stories and in symbols and--for us we're like, "Jesus,
why can't you just tell me what you're actually trying to say?"
And he's like, "No."
So like, "God is like a shepherd," and we're like, "Come
on, just tell me what you mean."
But it's--that's how people understood things at the time.
So we need to read it in that context.
Rebecca: Yeah, and I think too because there--that is part of
the reason you're like, "Why is he talking like this?"
It's like almost, like, in riddles.
You're like, "I'm so confused."
And then you learn this is kind of how rabbinical teaching was.
But also I think God never--it's always like--I feel like he's,
like, leaving off these little bread crumbs in Scripture and
it's like an invitation into something deeper with him
and--'cause he's seeking out, "Who will actually search
for me?"
'Cause the Bible says in Hebrews, it's like, God is a
rewarder of those who diligently seek him.
And so I think he's always, like, welcoming us in and
wanting us to go deeper with him into his Word, but it's like,
"Who will actually do it?"
Zack: Right.
And I don't think we really understand what it means to be a
disciple today and--
Rebecca: No. Can you speak to that?
Zack: Yeah, it was like--it was an honor to be covered in, like,
the dust of your rabbi; meaning that you did all of life with
them, that you ate with them, that you learned under them,
that you traveled with them, that everything you did
what--had to do with the rabbi.
And for us a lot of the times in church is like, "Okay, you have
a discipleship program.
You're going to learn about the church, you're going to learn
about your giftings, and you're going to learn a little bit
about God."
But in reality it's like this was a fully life-consuming,
transforming thing for these people where they would change
everything that they did in order to live life under
that rabbi.
So for us today looking at that and hearing that, it's like,
"Man, how can I make my day in Orlando, Florida dedicated to
being a disciple of Jesus in the modern times?"
And I think it's something that a lot of us wrestle with, is
like, "What does that actually look like?"
But it comes down to spending more time in the Word and
spending more time in prayer and loving God in order to love the
people around us even better.
But it's a heart posture a lot of the time.
Rebecca: It is a heart posture, totally.
And it's that desire if you--it's like humility 'cause
he--Jesus says, "You have to become like a child to enter
my--you know, into my kingdom."
And so a--totally humility, but God is so--he wants to spend
time with us more than we want to spend time with him
every time.
So he's always there.
He's always waiting for us to just come be with him.
And so if we take that heart posture of, "I want to know
you--" And I think about that verse, "Call on to me and I will
show you great and unsearchable things."
And so God is like beckoning us.
You know, the eyes of the Lord search to and from the earth
looking for those whose hearts are fully devoted to him.
So God's searching for those people and he wants that
relationship, and God, you know, I think--you know, shifting
per--shifting subjects is that one of the things for me 'cause
I love that you talk about, like, this big picture and I
think, like, that's such an important thing when looking at
the whole of Scripture, and for me a huge theme in the Bible is
that God is a Father and he wants a family.
I feel like that is, like, one of the things like--and when
Jesus comes to earth, it's like--when he says pray--this is
the Lord's Prayer.
It's--we could call God--there's so many titles we could call
him, but he teaches us to say our Father.
Zack: Right. Incredible.
Like, I want that as a dad, you know.
Like, I want that loving relationship with him, but I
think a lot of people today might not have a good
relationship with their fathers.
So when they hear that, it can be a little confusing or not
really sure what that even means or looks like, and so yeah--
Rebecca: And Jesus even had to, like, say to them,
he was like, "If you being evil like your father, you know, know
how to give good gifts to your children, how much more--" And
so he's already showing that differentiation like, "My Father
is so much better than even this."
And, you know, we kind of get to pull back the curtain in John 17
and you see this beautiful relationship between Jesus and
his Father and, like, this great love, and basically we see that
because God loved us so much that, you know, he's doing the
sacrifice for--you know, to make the way back to him through
his Son.
Zack: Absolutely, as a gift and all we have to do is
accept that.
That's pretty incredible, you know, literally.
Right, right.
Rebecca: He did the hard work.
And then the beauty of the gospel, oh my goodness.
When I began--I was like--when I began to study that in Bible
school, I my--in my--I guess, like, my spirit just came alive
and in my mind I was like, "This is the most genius thing I've
ever seen."
Like how Paul says through one man sin entered the world so
that through one man righteousness may come and so we
see this beautiful plan of redemption from the beginning of
time that God had for us.
Knowing that we were going to mess up, he already had a plan
to redeem us back to him.
Zack: For sure, and we get to be a part of that today.
Like, how cool is that; that we get to be part of bringing the
kingdom to our surrounding, to our neighborhood, to our jobs,
to our family?
Everywhere we go, we are a representation of Jesus today.
And I don't know about you, but I want to be a good
representation of him and I think the only way that you can
understand him and who he is more and what that
representation looks like is by spending time with him, spending
time in the Word and in prayer and allowing him to speak to us.
I think a lot of the times with prayer is just like I have my
laundry list of things that I'm telling him, but we don't
actually take time to sit in silence and expect him to speak
to us.
But the Bible says, like, "My sheep hear my voice and, like,
they know me."
So we know the voice of God, and I think we just need to learn to
slow down and spend time sitting and saying, "God, speak to
me today.
What do you have to say about my day, somebody around me?
Maybe it's about you," whatever the case is, "but speak to me."
And sit in that silence 'cause I really believe that he's
faithful and he will.
Rebecca: He is faithful.
And I think that's such an important word for today because
we're moving at a pace now--even in the last 10 years we've
accelerated so much as a society and we have so many different
streams of noise that is drowning out the voice of God
and things fighting for our attention.
You know, I had Dr. Amen on, and we were talking about the
dopamine addiction.
We're always seeking out that hit.
It's awful.
But all that being said, it really takes discipline and
dedication to sit down and be still within your soul and your
mind, your heart because even when I go to have a quiet time I
have to, like, tell my mind, "Okay--" 'Cause your mind will
just start thinking about, "Oh, I got to do this, do this."
And you have to--but that gift of time is so pleasing to God,
and he wants our time.
He wants us to spend time with him, and it's so pleasing to him
as a form of worship.
And if we are still, he will speak.
You just got to quiet your soul.
Zack: I literally--and we have the time.
Most of us do.
Rebecca: No, we do.
It's just like will you cut out--this is speaking
to myself--
Zack: For sure.
Like, we need to say no to things and that's like
okay, but--
Rebecca: And that's hard with my flesh.
My flesh is like, "No, I want to be on social media.
I want to watch TV."
Zack: Something that I love to do is I put my phone on
gray mode.
Have you ever done that?
You like triple-click one of the buttons and it makes your whole
screen and everything gray, and I think the way that our phones
are set up is that the colors of us are--the colors of them,
like, make us want to engage with it more.
Yeah.
And so if it's just gray, you don't want to as much.
So if--like during my work day or during my time just in prayer
with the Lord, it's like make it gray and then I won't be--have
any trigger inside of me to want to go open up another app or see
something else.
Rebecca: Well, there's a little like--little life hack for the
audience there.
I'm going to try that out, gray mode.
That's so cool.
You know, another thing that came to my mind as we were
talking is I was thinking about the apostle Paul, and he has a
wild testimony.
You know, he was a zealot killing Christians and he has an
encounter with Jesus, but what a lot of people don't know because
you have to kind of study the Scripture is that he after that
encounter and then he gets--was it Ananias?
I can't remember his name.
He goes and prays for him.
You know, he's no longer blind and then shortly after that Paul
is, like, ready to go, and he's like out in Jerusalem, preaching
and then the Lord like--is like, "Paul, wait," you know, 'cause
he--I think he's going to get arrested.
Well, we don't know, and I don't know exactly.
I want to say it's 14 years.
Paul spent like 14 years--
Zack: Yeah, I've heard like 11 to 14, like anywhere in there.
Rebecca: --in the desert and God is teaching him.
So people don't realize that, like, all this incredible stuff
that came out of Paul, like, God brought him through
and taught--
Zack: It wasn't immediate.
No.
And I think that's what you get from studying and also just from
seeing the places in person, is like time is so different, like
location is so different.
Like we just--we flip the page and it could have just flipped
200 years without us realizing it in the storyline because it's
like, "Oh, God did this and then God did this."
Well, there's a huge gap between the two a lot of the time.
And so that's what I'm always trying to get across, is like,
"Yeah, you need 14 years in the desert being, like, taught
through the Holy Spirit and studying Scriptures in order to
make it make sense," and yeah--
Rebecca: Exactly.
And God does a process in us and he launches us when we're ready.
Like, Paul had that passion.
He's like, "I'm ready now," you know.
But there's a wisdom in timing and him discipling you and
preparing you and teaching you.
And so a lot of times I think in our generation we want now, but
it's a walk.
It's a journey and even studying his Word.
It's never about--the heart posture should never be about
arriving to a certain point or, "I know so much information."
And I remember, like, I wanted to understand everything when I
got into Bible school and I understood that we could
receive revelation.
And so I'm studying Scripture through fresh eyes and--but I
remember having this moment with God.
I was in--I remember my mom was like, "Let's read--" I had my
grandmother's Bible and my mom was like, "Let's read
1 Corinthians 13."
And I was like, "This is like the one Scripture I do know.
This is like the most quoted thing at weddings."
So I was like, "Okay."
You know, I was like, you know, I could study anything.
And so we're reading it, but as we got down to the bottom Paul
says, you know, "I see dimly through a gla--or a mirror,"
whatever that is.
He says, "I know in part, but one day I know in full."
And God in that moment was like, "On this earth you're never
going to fully understand."
And it brought such humility in me and it brought me such grace,
and I feel like we need grace 'cause we'll see people in the
body of Christ who maybe have varying opinions or, you know,
ways of translating things.
And there's things we don't compromise on, but I think
there's other things we don't fully understand if we can just
take that posture of humility knowing one day we'll know.
We'll know him in full, but until then there's some stuff
that is kind of a mystery.
Zack: Totally, which is tough for us in the West a lot of the
times because we want to know.
Rebecca: We want the answers.
Zack: And if we don't have the answers, then a lot of people
are like, "Well, it's not real, then."
It's like, "No, there's--" We need to be able to sit in
that mystery.
There's a lot of things--yeah, there's a lot of things in
science that I don't understand.
So, like, I don't understand gravity.
I don't understand some things in the Bible and that's okay,
and I think people just need to be okay with that as well.
Rebecca: Yeah, and he says like, "My ways are higher than
your ways."
He's so much bigger than us.
Like, our minds could never fully co--in this setting, like,
there's just no way we could fully understand, and he's given
us his Word and we have a relationship with him and we
just need to trust him.
And I think too that really walking--we're called to walk a
walk of faith and if you have the mentality that, "I need to
understand everything," I think you're going to become
frustrated in life.
It's just so much better.
I've just come to a place where it's like, "I may never
understand why things in my life are a certain way, but I
trust him."
Zack: Right, that's the root of it.
If you trust that God is good, that he does have a plan, that
he's going to use whatever you're dealing with for his good
and you're in his kingdom and he's using you, then that's good
enough sometimes.
Rebecca: It's--it is good enough.
I--you know, I think one of the things people struggle with in
Scripture is understanding who God is because sometimes people
think Old Testament God, mean, angry God; New Testament God,
loving and merciful God.
How do you, you know, through your--through combining
these things?
It is one story, and he is one God; the same yesterday, today,
and forever.
How do you reconcile that?
Zack: It's tough for sure, and I think that's the root of it;
that we need to remember that he is the same yesterday, he is the
same today, and he is the same tomorrow and for eternity.
And so I don't know if there's a good answer a lot of the time
for all of that, for okay is like--God seems so, like, angry
in the Old Testament but then he's like so loving in the New
Testament, and maybe that comes from--I'm just thinking out loud
with this, but maybe it comes from our understanding of Jesus
in the New Testament in America today is like this peace-love
hippie Jesus more so than like he's a just and he's a holy God
and he's for sure loving; but we need to look at him through the
lens of holiness first and that does mean that evil is punished,
and in the Old Testament we decide clear--clearer with wars
and taking over, and in the New Testament it seems more
spiritual for sure.
But I think the root of all of it is that God is holy and he
commands his people to be holy, and that means that we need to
be fully dedicated to him and set apart from other cultures.
Rebecca: Yeah, a people of his own.
Yeah, totally.
What do you think--what do you see are some of the biggest
struggles with people today with God's Word, and how do you
right-side that?
Zack: Yeah, I think a lot of people don't know where
to begin.
I feel like they--
Rebecca: I say amen to that.
Zack: Yeah, totally.
A lot of people just are overwhelmed and they don't feel
like they have enough time and so it's like--
Rebecca: It's a lot of words.
Zack: Yeah.
And so it's like, "Okay, if I only have time to meditate on
one verse, then, like, I'm hoping that that helps me the
rest of the day."
When in reality, the Bible is written in stories and in
letters and oftentimes they were read from beginning to end in
front of the church or in front of synagogue for the
Old Testament.
And for us it's like we rarely do that, but we need to read it
like that.
I think Philippians takes, what, 15 minutes to read the
entire thing?
So why don't we read it from beginning to end?
Instead of focusing on one verse, read what happens before,
read what happens after; and I think by doing that you'll be
much more solid on your doctrines and understanding of
who God is because right now we can take one verse, take it out
of context and build an entire theology around it and then it's
like, "Well, it--does that line up with God in the rest of
the Bible?"
And oftentimes I don't think it does.
So, context from the big picture.
And so maybe that looks like maybe once a week you just read
bigger chunks at a time.
So it's like, "All right, this Saturday I'm going to read all
of Galatians," or, "This month I'm going to read Matthew in one
sitting from--like I'm going to sit down and it's going to take
me 3 hours or whatever, but it's--I spend 3 hours
watching movies.
Why can't I do that with the Bible?"
And yeah, a lot of people might be like, "Well, I start reading
it and then I get distracted within two chapters and I stop."
Okay, so for me I'll listen at the same time so then I'm
hitting multiple senses.
If I think that maybe, like, the Bible app is like monotone,
there's--have you used Streetlights before?
Rebecca: I love Streetlights.
Zack: Yeah, so like Streetlights is awesome.
So use Streetlights as you're going through and then you're
going to hear it and see it at the same time.
Rebecca: They put it to music too, and on YouTube there--okay,
there's like this one specific version where it's like
this guy.
It's in the New Living Translation and it's like this
British guy reading it, and they put it to, like, music and it
just totally keeps my attention.
Zack: For sure.
Right.
So, like, there are things in place that we just need to know
about, and I think it's, like, lack of knowledge on resources--
Rebecca: And you're right about there--and there is something
where, you know, it's--when you're listening to big chunks,
you get such a more of a download, I kind of feel like,
'cause you're getting kind of like the full...
Yeah, instead of just like little bits and pieces.
Zack: Absolutely.
And for a lot of us we might be like, "Okay, I'm going to go
through the entire Bible over the course of a year and I do
the same thing year after year."
Rebecca: Do you do that?
Zack: I don't, because I like to switch it up so--
Rebecca: See, I like that though.
You're not like--I think people get too focused on, like,
methodology it's like, "I have to, like, do it this way."
And it's like no.
Zack: No, switch it--like whatever is your--is going on
with you in that season, do that.
So like in February I read the whole Bible in 30 days and--but
I did it because then you understand the big picture in a
different way than you would if it took you a year or two.
Rebecca: What would you say the big picture is, by the way?
Zack: Yeah, so it's God wanting to partner with humans, his
creation, in order to make a place of paradise and he gave us
a choice to spread his garden and we chose to partner with the
ways of the world instead, and the rest of the story is this
redemption process of, "Okay, God's going to choose a family.
God's going to choose a king.
He's going to send his Son who's going to be the Messiah there
that's going to save all of humanity that believes in him
and wipe away sin completely."
And right now we're in this process where we're heading
towards full redemption in a new earth; and that's incredible
where sin will no longer be ruling anywhere around us, and
that's awesome.
So I think when you read the Bible in really fast chunks like
that you see it from the big picture that it actually is and
now when you're on day three you're like, "Wait, I remember
reading something about this in Genesis 1."
When in reality if it took you a year to read the Bible, you--it
might take you a month to get to the place that you were at 2
days later.
And so you just miss so much more.
I don't think everybody can do that or should do that.
I just had the time and ability to at the moment.
But yeah, each person is so different, whether it's taking
one chapter at a time and you work--slowly work your way
through it, but I think just spending time in Scripture is
the most important thing.
Rebecca: Yeah, and renewing your mind.
And I was just thinking about--Paul says in Colossians,
it's like, set your mind on things above.
And so we have to--it's like if we're just living our lives not
in his Word, we're going to just see things from an earthly
perspective and he's calling us to live from a
heavenly perspective.
We're expanding his kingdom.
So we have to see things his way, you know, and that's only
from reading his Word.
Zack: For sure.
And we have like a negativity bias.
So if ten things happen to us in the day, nine of them are good
and one of them is bad, we focus on the bad one, which is
like--that's not what Paul is saying.
He's saying, like, focus on things that are good and pure
and lovely and holy and of the kingdom.
And so like that's where I want to be at.
I want to be focusing on where God is moving in my life and
around me because I believe that if we do that goodness is just
going to grow more and more and it's going to be our main focus
and we're going to see the presence of God in our lives far
more than if we were focusing on the bad things that
were happening.
Rebecca: How would you--what would you say the kingdom of God
is, and how does it spread?
Zack: Yeah, I think a lot of people don't realize that Jesus
is a King and he's reigning and ruling and he has a kingdom and
his kingdom is through him at--when he came the first time,
everywhere that he was performing miracles and
teaching, his kingdom was being brought there.
It was like little pockets of heaven everywhere he went.
And for us today we have the Holy Spirit and so everywhere
that we go and bring--we can bring his kingdom and that comes
through healing and forgiveness and peace and joy and love and
worshiping God, and the more people that we bring into that
the more the kingdom grows and eventually it'll take over.
Rebecca: What would you say our role is as believers right now?
Zack: Yeah.
I think it's to love God, to worship him in all that we do.
And I think that's missed a lot of the time, but we can worship
him through music but then also just through our lives, through
what we choose to focus on, through our jobs.
We can--if you're a plumber, you can worship God through your
plumbing just as much as if you're a pastor, and I don't
think a lot of people realize that.
And so worship is number one.
Spending time, growing closer to him, and loving the people
around us.
So allowing his love to come in and then go out to the people
around us as like an overflow, and that means bringing people
into the kingdom and preaching the gospel and showing people
that it is actually good news and--instead of just a bunch of
rules that we need to follow, but it's something that you're
signing up for and it--you're choosing to partner with God's
way of doing things in his wisdom versus the ways of the
world and at the end you're going to want to be a part of
the good ways.
Rebecca: Yeah, and part of his kingdom.
And I just love that because people need to familiarize
themselves with our identity and our role and our purpose.
And I think when we understand that big picture, it will really
shift how we live our lives and it will help get us off of
focusing on temporary and focus on eternity and living a life
that counts towards eternity, not just in this moment.
Zack: Absolutely.
Like, what actually matters for us.
Like, "Do I really need a new car or can I, like, give my time
and energy over here to help and serve and love the people
around me?" you know, yeah.
Rebecca: Yeah.
Well, this has been such a great "conversation."
I love what you're doing.
For anyone that--you know, 'cause you did this.
You also did--it's called the--
Zack: "The Bible Study."
Rebecca: "The Bible Study." How do people get that?
Zack: Yeah, on Amazon--
Rebecca: That's a Bible in one year?
Zack: Yeah, so it's--it holds your hand as you read through
the whole Bible over the course of a year.
Rebecca: So two really great tools.
I would just totally recommend you guys that are listening and
watching to just tap into because I think if you can have
these resources and have these things to help you it's just
going to make it such a better experience and a more
fruitful outcome.
Zack: Awesome. That's the heart behind it.
I want people to fall in love with Scripture.
And if you can start with this foundation, it'll take you a lot
further than anything that I had beforehand, so--
Rebecca: That's awesome. Well, thank you so much, Zack.
Zack: Thank you. It's been a pleasure.