WEBVTT



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>> ALL RIGHT.
WELL, I'M VERY EXCITED

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BECAUSE I HAVE
DR. AARON KHERIATY,

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DID I SAY IT RIGHT?


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>> YOU NAILED IT.


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>> YES. YOU ARE HERE WITH US
TODAY AND I'M SO EXCITED.

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WE'RE GOING TO BE
TALKING ABOUT

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A LOT OF TOPICS,


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BUT TELL US A LITTLE BIT


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ABOUT YOUR OWN
BACKGROUND YOURSELF.

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>> SURE.


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SO I'M A PHYSICIAN,


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I SPECIALIZE IN PSYCHIATRY.


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FOR MOST OF MY CAREER,


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I WAS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF
CALIFORNIA, IRVINE

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IN THE SCHOOL OF MEDICINE
WHERE I DIRECTED

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THE MEDICAL ETHICS PROGRAM.


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AND THAT ALL CHANGED
IN THE MIDDLE OF COVID

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WHEN I WAS INVOLVED
IN THE UNIVERSITY'S POLICIES

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FOR COVID AND BASICALLY
VETTING ALL THE POLICIES

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THAT HAD ETHICS
IMPLICATIONS UP UNTIL

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THE VACCINE MANDATE POLICY


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WAS PUT FORWARD IN 2021.


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AND THAT POLICY DIDN'T
GO THROUGH OUR COMMITTEE

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THAT HAD LOOKED AT ALL
THE OTHER COVID POLICIES

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AND THAT CONCERNED ME.


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AND SO I WAS CONCERNED
ABOUT THE IDEA OF

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COERCING PEOPLE TO GET
A MEDICAL INTERVENTION

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THAT THEY MAY OR MAY
NOT HAVE WANTED,

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AND MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE NEEDED.


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THERE WAS NO PROVISION
IN THE POLICY, FOR EXAMPLE,

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FOR PEOPLE WHO HAD
ALREADY HAD COVID

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AND ACQUIRED NATURAL IMMUNITY,


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WHICH WE KNOW IS BETTER THAN
VACCINE-MEDIATED IMMUNITY.

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NATURAL IMMUNITY IS
BASICALLY WHAT VACCINES

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ATTEMPT TO IMITATE
WITHOUT EVER, YOU KNOW,

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BECOMING AS ROBUST AS
WHAT YOUR OWN BODY DOES

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AFTER IT RECOVERS
FROM INFECTION.

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AND I HAD PERSONALLY
ALREADY HAD COVID

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AND KNEW THAT I WAS
THEREFORE PROTECTED,

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AND IF I WERE TO GET A
RECURRING VARIANT OF COVID,

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THAT IT WAS MUCH MORE
LIKELY TO BE MILD,

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AND I WAS YOUNG AND
RELATIVELY HEALTHY

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AND NOT AT RISK.


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AND I KNEW THERE WERE MANY
OTHER PEOPLE LIKE THAT,

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WHO WOULD LOOK AT
THE RISKS AND BENEFITS

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OF THIS NOVEL TECHNOLOGY


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THAT HAD JUST BEEN DEVELOPED


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AND THAT WE DIDN'T KNOW
VERY MUCH ABOUT

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AND SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT,
ON BALANCE,

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I WILL TAKE MY CHANCES
AND TRY TO

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IMPROVE MY HEALTH, YOU KNOW,


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THROUGH OTHER MEANS, BUT I
DON'T WANT THE VACCINE.

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AND I THOUGHT PEOPLE
SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT

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TO DO THAT.


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AND, IN FACT, THAT'S
GROUNDED IN ONE OF

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THE CORE PRINCIPLES
OF MEDICAL ETHICS.

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THE PRINCIPLE OF INFORMED
CONSENT, WHICH I TAUGHT

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IN LECTURE TO ALL THE MEDICAL
STUDENTS EVERY YEAR

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IN THEIR REQUIRED
ETHICS COURSE.

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AND SO A POLICY THAT
WOULD BASICALLY

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TOSS THAT PRINCIPLE OVERBOARD


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TO ME, VIOLATED ONE OF
THE THINGS

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THAT MEDICAL ETHICS
ALWAYS NEEDS TO

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STAND FAST AND STAND BY.


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AND SO I PUBLISHED A PIECE
IN THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

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ARGUING THAT UNIVERSITY
VACCINE MANDATES WERE UNETHICAL.

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AND I FOCUSED ON
UNIVERSITIES BECAUSE

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THEY WERE THE FIRST
INSTITUTIONS TO MANDATE

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THE COVID VACCINE BEFORE
BUSINESSES AND OTHER

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GOVERNMENT AGENCIES
STARTED DOING THAT.

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AND THAT WAS AN ATTEMPT TO GET
A CONVERSATION GOING

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AT THE UNIVERSITY
WHICH FAILED.

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I WAS STYMIED
IN MY ATTEMPTS

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TO HAVE A REAL
DEBATE AND DISCUSSION

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ABOUT THIS POLICY.


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AND A COUPLE WEEKS AFTER I
PUBLISHED THAT ARTICLE

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THE UNIVERSITY FINALIZED
THEIR POLICY.

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AND I DECIDED AT
THAT POINT THAT I NEEDED

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TO DO SOMETHING, NOT JUST
TO SPEAK OUT

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AGAINST THE POLICY AND
VOICE MY OPINION ABOUT IT,

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BUT AS DIRECTOR OF
THE MEDICAL ETHICS PROGRAM,

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TO DO SOMETHING TO TRY TO
ACTUALLY CHANGE IT.

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SO I MADE THE FATEFUL
DECISION AND FATAL DECISION

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TO CHALLENGE THE POLICY
IN FEDERAL COURT.

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AND AS I MENTIONED EARLIER
TODAY ON OUR CONVERSATION,

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A GOOD WAY TO GO SIDEWAYS
WITH YOUR EMPLOYER

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VERY QUICKLY IS TO SUE THEM
IN FEDERAL COURT.

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AND THE UNIVERSITY QUICKLY
RETALIATED BY FIRING ME.

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SO I FOUND MYSELF
SCRAMBLING TO PUT TOGETHER

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A PRIVATE PRACTICE


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WHERE I COULD SEE
MY PATIENTS.

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I STILL DO PART-TIME WORK
IN MY SPECIALTY,

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WHICH IS PSYCHIATRY,


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AND I STARTED WORKING FOR AN
INDEPENDENT THINK TANK

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IN WASHINGTON, D.C. CALLED


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THE ETHICS AND PUBLIC
POLICY CENTER

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TO CONTINUE DOING MY WORK


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IN BIOETHICS AND
PUBLIC POLICY.

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SO THAT'S SORT OF BEEN
MY CAREER TRAJECTORY.

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I WAS AT THE UNIVERSITY
WHERE I HAD DONE

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MY RESIDENCY TRAINING.


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I HAD BEEN THERE
FOR 20 YEARS,

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IF YOU COUNT RESIDENCY.


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I HAD EXPECTED


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I WAS GOING TO RETIRE
THERE AND JUST CONTINUE

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TEACHING MEDICAL STUDENTS
AND RUNNING THE ETHICS PROGRAM

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UNTIL THE END OF MY CAREER AND
ALL OF THAT CHANGED.

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GOD CLEARLY HAD
OTHER PLANS FOR ME,

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AND MY CAREER WENT
IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION.

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AND BY THE GRACE OF GOD


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I LANDED ON MY FEET
PROFESSIONALLY

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AND HAVE CONTINUED TO DO MY WORK
WITH THE SUPPORT OF EPPC.

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I GET SOME SUPPORT ALSO
FROM ANOTHER

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INDEPENDENT THINK TANK CALLED
THE BROWNSTONE INSTITUTE.

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AND SO GOD HAS BEEN GOOD AND
GENEROUS AND ALLOWED ME

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TO CONTINUE WRITING, DOING MY
RESEARCH, PUBLISHING,

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AND TALKING ABOUT THESE
ISSUES THAT I THINK

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ARE SO IMPORTANT FOR
AMERICANS TO UNDERSTAND.

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SOMETIMES PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T
STUDY SCIENCE OR MEDICINE

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CAN BECOME INTIMIDATED
WHEN WE START TALKING ABOUT

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ISSUES IN
SCIENCE AND MEDICINE.

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BUT WHAT'S COMING DOWN THE
PIKE AND THE KINDS OF ISSUES

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THAT WE'RE FACING BECAUSE
OF NEW MEDICAL TECHNOLOGIES,

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BECAUSE OF NEW
TECHNOLOGIES LIKE AI,

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THESE ARE THINGS THAT
WE CANNOT SIMPLY SAY,

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OH, I'M GOING TO LEAVE
THAT TO THE EXPERTS

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TO SORT OUT, RIGHT?


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VERY OFTEN
THE EXPERTS ARE PEOPLE

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THAT HAVE CERTAIN
FINANCIAL INTERESTS AT STAKE

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IN THESE TECHNOLOGIES.


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THEY'RE PEOPLE WHO HAVE CERTAIN
IDEOLOGICAL INTERESTS

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THAT MAY NOT ALIGN
WITH OUR OWN VIEWS

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AND OUR OWN
MORAL CONVICTIONS.

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SO I TRY TO EDUCATE
AMERICANS ON THESE ISSUES

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AS WELL, ORDINARY
AMERICANS AND NOT JUST PEOPLE

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THAT ARE INVOLVED
IN THESE FIELDS

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BECAUSE THESE ARE THINGS
THAT ALL OF US

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HAVE A STAKE IN.


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WE ALL HAVE A
STAKE IN THE FUTURE

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OF HOW SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY
IS USED IN MEDICINE

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AND IN SOCIETY IN GENERAL.


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>> IT'S SO IMPORTANT THAT
PEOPLE UNDERSTAND

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WHAT'S GOING ON, AND
THAT THEY CAN

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MAKE INFORMED DECISIONS.


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AND, YOU KNOW, EVEN THOUGH
YOU LOST YOUR JOB,

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YOU TOOK A RISK, YOU STOOD
UP FOR WHAT WAS RIGHT.

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BUT GOD WILL USE THESE
DIFFICULT TIMES

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TO TRANSITION US INTO PLACES


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WE WOULD HAVE NEVER GONE


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IF WE HADN'T
BEEN PUSHED OUT.

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WHAT'S INTERESTING TO ME
ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU

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AT THE UNIVERSITY WAS THAT
YOU WERE OVER

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THE MEDICAL ETHICS
AND YET

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THEY DID NOT COME
TO YOU OVER

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THIS IMPORTANT TOPIC OF
INFORMED CONSENT

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IN TERMS OF THE VACCINE.


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>> YEAH.


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>> THAT'S VERY STRANGE.


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>> I WAS PUZZLED
BY THAT AS WELL.

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IT WAS VERY STRANGE


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THAT NOT JUST ME,


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BUT WE HAD A WHOLE
COMMITTEE OF PEOPLE LIKE ME

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FROM ALL FIVE OF THE
BRANCH CAMPUSES

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THAT HAD HOSPITALS, AND THIS
POLICY JUST SIMPLY

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CAME DOWN FROM ON HIGH.


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WE HAD SPENT, I HAD SPENT
NIGHTS AND WEEKENDS

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HAMMERING OUT THE
NITTY-GRITTY DETAILS

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OF ALL KINDS OF OTHER COVID
POLICIES THAT HAD

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ETHICS IMPLICATIONS.


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AND THEN THE ONE THAT WAS
GOING TO CLEARLY BE

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THE MOST PUBLICLY AND
ETHICALLY CONTROVERSIAL,

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IT WAS LIKE, NOPE,
WE'RE DOING THIS

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AND WE'RE NOT GOING
TO TALK ABOUT IT.

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WHICH SUGGESTED TO ME THAT
THERE WERE OTHER FORCES AT WORK.

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I THINK THERE WERE
FINANCIAL INTERESTS AT WORK.

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I THINK THERE WERE
PROBLEMS WITH OUR

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PUBLIC HEALTH AGENCIES
AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL

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LEANING ON UNIVERSITIES
TO DO THEIR BIDDING

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AND TO EMBRACE
THIS APPROACH TO

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THE PANDEMIC RESPONSE.


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ONE SIMPLE EXAMPLE I GIVE IS
WE HAD ANTHONY FAUCI

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AT THE NATIONAL INSTITUTE
OF HEALTH.

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AND THE NIH, HIS JOB IS
NOT TO MAKE POLICY.

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THE NIH'S JOB IS TO
FUND RESEARCH

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IN THE UNITED STATES.


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SO 85% OF BIOMEDICAL RESEARCH
IN THE UNITED STATES

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IS FUNDED BY THE NATIONAL
INSTITUTE OF HEALTH.

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SO FAUCI IS IN CONTROL OF
A DIVISION OF THE NIH

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INVOLVED IN INFECTIOUS DISEASE,


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THAT BASICALLY HAS
ENORMOUS POWER

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OVER ALL THE INFECTIOUS
DISEASE RESEARCHERS

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AT ALL THE UNIVERSITIES.


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AT THE SAME TIME,


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AND THIS IS WHERE
I THINK THERE WAS

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A CONFLICT OF INTEREST,


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HE WAS THE WHITE HOUSE'S
POLICY ADVISER ON COVID

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AND HE WAS GETTING ON
TV AND HE WAS BASICALLY

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MAKING RECOMMENDATIONS
ON LOCKDOWNS AND MASK MANDATES

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AND VACCIN MANDATES
AND SCHOOL CLOSURES

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AND SO FORTH.


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WELL, IF YOU'RE A
RESEARCHER AT A UNIVERSITY

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WHO THINKS THESE ARE
BAD POLICIES,

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WHO RECOGNIZES THEY'RE NOT
GROUNDED IN GOOD SCIENCE,

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WELL, YOU MIGHT BE TEMPTED
TO KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT

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BECAUSE IF YOU CONTRADICT
ANTHONY FAUCI OR THE OTHER

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BUREAUCRATS AT THE NIH,
THEY MIGHT JUST CUT OFF

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YOUR RESEARCH FUNDING,
RIGHT.

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AND SO I THINK WE NEED TO
BASICALLY HAVE

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A MAJOR REFORM OF OUR
PUBLIC HEALTH AGENCIES

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SO THAT THE AGENCY
RESPONSIBLE FOR RESEARCH

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IS JUST FUNDING RESEARCH
AND THEY ARE SUPPORTING

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FREE SPEECH AND DISSENTING
OPINIONS IN SCIENCE

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BECAUSE THAT'S ACTUALLY
HOW SCIENCE PROGRESSES.

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IF YOU TAKE A GROUP OF A
DOZEN SCIENTISTS,

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YOU PUT THEM IN
A ROOM TOGETHER,

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WHAT DO THEY DO?


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THEY DEBATE ENDLESSLY
ABOUT, YOU KNOW,

00:08:42.800 --> 00:08:45.734
THE NUANCES OF THE DATA


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OR THE UPSHOT OF
THE RESEARCH ON THIS TOPIC

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AS A WHOLE.


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THAT'S WHAT THEY DO, THEY
ARGUE AND THEY DEBATE

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AND THEY REFINE THEIR IDEAS


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BASED ON THAT DEBATE.


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THEY DON'T GET ON TV AND
SAY QUOTE, UNQUOTE

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THE SCIENCE SAYS YOU SHOULD
DO X ON A VERY

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COMPLEX PROBLEM OR COMPLEX
PUBLIC HEALTH QUESTION,

00:09:04.267 --> 00:09:07.333
LIKE WHETHER OR NOT TO CLOSE
THE SCHOOLS, WHICH HAS ALL

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KINDS OF, YOU KNOW,
IMPLICATIONS BEYOND JUST

00:09:09.934 --> 00:09:11.634
THE SPREADING OF A VIRUS.


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IT HAS IMPLICATIONS ON
CHILD DEVELOPMENT.

00:09:13.500 --> 00:09:15.567
IT HAS IMPLICATIONS ON
CHILDREN'S

00:09:15.667 --> 00:09:16.767
EMOTIONAL DEVELOPMENT.


00:09:16.867 --> 00:09:18.367
HAS IMPLICATIONS
ON THE ECONOMY.

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IT HAS ALL KINDS OF
COMPLEXITIES THAT

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NO ONE SCIENTIST HAS TOTAL
EXPERTISE ON.

00:09:24.867 --> 00:09:27.200
AND SO WHAT WAS LACKING
DURING COVID

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WAS THIS ROBUST PUBLIC DEBATE


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THAT SHOULD
CHARACTERIZE SCIENCE,

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THAT SHOULD CHARACTERIZE
PUBLIC POLICY,

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THAT SHOULD CHARACTERIZE THE
EDUCATION SYSTEM

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AND BUSINESSES AND ALL
KINDS OF OTHER THINGS

00:09:39.133 --> 00:09:41.267
THAT WERE IMPACTED
BY THESE DECISIONS.

00:09:41.367 --> 00:09:43.966
AND THAT'S PRECISELY
WHAT WE DIDN'T HAVE.

00:09:44.066 --> 00:09:46.300
WE DEFERRED TO THESE
SO-CALLED EXPERTS,

00:09:46.400 --> 00:09:48.434
WHICH TOOK US DOWN A PATH
THAT I WOULD ARGUE

00:09:48.534 --> 00:09:50.900
ENDED UP DOING A LOT
MORE HARM THAN GOOD.

00:09:51.000 --> 00:09:53.533
>> I AGREE. AND YOU'RE
RIGHT, COVID REALLY DID

00:09:53.633 --> 00:09:56.966
KIND OF LIFT THE VEIL AND
LET US SEE KIND OF THE THINGS

00:09:57.066 --> 00:09:58.233
THAT REALLY NEED
TO BE FIXED

00:09:58.333 --> 00:10:00.167
IN OUR PUBLIC HEALTHCARE SYSTEM.


00:10:00.267 --> 00:10:02.834
AND THE OTHER THING
THAT I WAS GOING TO SAY IS,

00:10:02.934 --> 00:10:04.067
I HAD TWO QUESTIONS.


00:10:04.167 --> 00:10:05.434
SO DID THE UNIVERSITY PUSH


00:10:05.534 --> 00:10:07.633
FOR THE STUDENTS
TO GET VACCINATED

00:10:07.733 --> 00:10:08.867
OR THEY WOULD NOT
BE ABLE TO GO?

00:10:08.967 --> 00:10:09.933
>> THAT'S RIGHT.


00:10:10.033 --> 00:10:11.234
THEY MANDATED IT.


00:10:11.334 --> 00:10:15.200
PART OF THE POLICY THAT I HAD
CHALLENGED IN FEDERAL COURT

00:10:15.300 --> 00:10:17.567
WAS STUDENTS WERE REQUIRED TO
TAKE THE VACCINE.

00:10:17.667 --> 00:10:19.867
SO THIS IS A POPULATION
THAT WAS YOUNG.

00:10:19.967 --> 00:10:20.700
>> YEAH.


00:10:20.800 --> 00:10:22.767
>> MOST OF THEM
VERY HEALTHY.

00:10:22.867 --> 00:10:26.567
NOT AT ANY SIGNIFICANT
RISK OF SERIOUS MORBIDITY

00:10:26.667 --> 00:10:29.834
OR DEATH FROM COVID, THAT
WERE FORCED TO TAKE

00:10:29.934 --> 00:10:32.633
WHAT WAS AN EXPERIMENTAL
PRODUCT BY OUR OWN

00:10:32.733 --> 00:10:35.300
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'S
DEFINITION OF EXPERIMENT

00:10:35.400 --> 00:10:38.766
WHEN IT WAS UNDER EMERGENCY
USE AUTHORIZATION.

00:10:38.866 --> 00:10:41.467
SO THE IDEA OF MANDATING ANY
VACCINE LIKE THIS

00:10:41.567 --> 00:10:43.100
TO AN 18- OR 19-YEAR OLD,


00:10:43.200 --> 00:10:46.033
I THINK IS PROBLEMATIC,
BUT ESPECIALLY A VACCINE

00:10:46.133 --> 00:10:48.400
WITH BRAND-NEW TECHNOLOGY
THAT WAS JUST BEING ROLLED OUT

00:10:48.500 --> 00:10:51.267
ON A MASS SCALE FOR
THE FIRST TIME.

00:10:51.367 --> 00:10:55.433
AND MY STANCE AGAINST THE POLICY
WAS BASED ON ETHICAL GROUNDS.

00:10:55.533 --> 00:10:57.033
IT WAS BASED ON THIS,


00:10:57.133 --> 00:10:59.366
THIS DOCTRINE OF INFORMED
CONSENT THAT I MENTIONED EARLIER

00:10:59.466 --> 00:11:02.467
THAT ADULTS OF SOUND MIND AFTER
GETTING INFORMATION

00:11:02.567 --> 00:11:04.133
ON THE RISKS, BENEFITS
AND ALTERNATIVES

00:11:04.233 --> 00:11:06.534
OF A TREATMENT SHOULD HAVE
THE RIGHT TO ACCEPT THAT

00:11:06.634 --> 00:11:09.734
TREATMENT OR TO REFUSE IT.


00:11:09.834 --> 00:11:12.066
BUT EVEN ASIDE FROM
THE ETHICAL ISSUES,

00:11:12.166 --> 00:11:15.667
THERE WERE ALSO MAJOR
ISSUES RELATED TO SAFETY

00:11:15.767 --> 00:11:18.700
AND EFFICACY OF THESE
PRODUCTS THAT STARTED EMERGING

00:11:18.800 --> 00:11:22.333
AND HAD BEGUN TO
EMERGE BY THE END OF 2021

00:11:22.433 --> 00:11:26.033
WHEN THESE VACCINE
MANDATES WERE BEING ROLLED OUT.

00:11:26.133 --> 00:11:30.100
AND I THINK THOSE ALSO
NOW IN RETROSPECT ARE

00:11:30.200 --> 00:11:33.967
CAUSE FOR SERIOUS CONCERN,
AND A KIND OF CAUTIONARY TALE

00:11:34.067 --> 00:11:37.334
THAT WHEN WE RUSH TO
JUDGMENT AND WHEN WE RUSH

00:11:37.434 --> 00:11:42.233
TO A SCIENTIFIC CONCLUSION
WHERE BASICALLY ANY

00:11:42.333 --> 00:11:44.566
DISSENTING VOICES
ARE SUPPRESSED,

00:11:44.666 --> 00:11:47.333
WE END UP MAKING
A LOT OF MISTAKES.

00:11:47.433 --> 00:11:49.734
AND THE WAY TO GET GOOD
OUTCOMES IN SCIENCE

00:11:49.834 --> 00:11:52.566
AND MEDICINE IS TO LET ALL
THE DIFFERENT VOICES

00:11:52.666 --> 00:11:55.400
OF THE PEOPLE INVOLVED, ALL THE
DIFFERENT STAKEHOLDERS

00:11:55.500 --> 00:11:59.600
BE HEARD AND TO HAVE ROBUST
DEBATE AND DISCUSSION

00:11:59.700 --> 00:12:02.267
ON QUESTIONS THAT ARE
NOT YET SETTLED

00:12:02.367 --> 00:12:04.500
AND WE NEED
TO TRY TO DO OUR BEST.

00:12:04.600 --> 00:12:07.634
YOU KNOW, NO ONE PERSON
ON A QUESTION

00:12:07.734 --> 00:12:12.033
AS COMPLICATED AS THIS, HAS
A MONOPOLY ON ALL THE ANSWERS

00:12:12.133 --> 00:12:13.533
AND ALL THE TRUTH.


00:12:13.633 --> 00:12:15.267
AND BEHAVING AS
THOUGH THEY DO

00:12:15.367 --> 00:12:18.567
ENDS UP BASICALLY
SETTING US UP FOR

00:12:18.667 --> 00:12:22.166
POTENTIALLY FAILURE AND
SERIOUS DOWNSTREAM HARMS.

00:12:22.266 --> 00:12:25.200
>> AND THE OTHER THING
THAT I WANTED TO MENTION

00:12:25.300 --> 00:12:28.367
THAT YOU HAD SAID, KIND OF
TOUCHED ON PREVIOUSLY,

00:12:28.467 --> 00:12:30.467
WAS ANOTHER PROBLEM
WITH THE SYSTEM

00:12:30.567 --> 00:12:32.533
IS THAT PEOPLE LIKE
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI

00:12:32.633 --> 00:12:34.600
WERE ABLE TO LINE
THEIR POCKETS.

00:12:34.700 --> 00:12:35.733
>> YES.


00:12:35.833 --> 00:12:37.966
>> WITH MONEY. I MEAN,
HOW IS THAT ALLOWED?

00:12:38.066 --> 00:12:40.100
ANYWHERE ELSE IT WOULD
BE NOT ALLOWED.

00:12:40.200 --> 00:12:41.933
>> HERE'S ANOTHER SERIOUS
CONFLICT OF INTEREST.

00:12:42.033 --> 00:12:44.166
AND, YOU KNOW, ON THE SILVER
LINING SIDE OF THINGS,

00:12:44.266 --> 00:12:47.600
MY COLLEAGUE AND CO-PLAINTIFF
IN A FREE SPEECH CASE,

00:12:47.700 --> 00:12:50.767
JAY BHATTACHARYA, IS THE NEW
DIRECTOR OF THE NIH,

00:12:50.867 --> 00:12:53.334
AND HE'S A MAN OF
ENORMOUS INTEGRITY,

00:12:53.434 --> 00:12:54.766
A FAITHFUL CHRISTIAN MAN.


00:12:54.866 --> 00:12:56.300
I HAVE THE
HIGHEST RESPECT FOR HIM,

00:12:56.400 --> 00:12:58.767
AND I THINK HE'S
WELL-POSITIONED,

00:12:58.867 --> 00:13:02.033
AND I'M WORKING IN AN ADVISORY
CAPACITY WITH HIM

00:13:02.133 --> 00:13:05.134
TO TRY TO CLEAN UP SOME OF
THESE PROBLEMS IN THAT

00:13:05.234 --> 00:13:06.700
PARTICULAR HEALTH AGENCY.


00:13:06.800 --> 00:13:11.834
BUT MANY AMERICANS DON'T
REALIZE THAT THE NIH,

00:13:11.934 --> 00:13:14.800
AND SEVERAL SCIENTISTS
AT THE NIH,

00:13:14.900 --> 00:13:19.067
WERE CO-OWNERS OF THE
MODERNA VACCINE PATENT.

00:13:19.167 --> 00:13:21.100
SO THAT VACCINE WAS
DEVELOPED IN PART WITH

00:13:21.200 --> 00:13:23.600
TAXPAYER DOLLARS DOING
THE RESEARCH.

00:13:23.700 --> 00:13:26.033
AND, YOU KNOW, TAXPAYERS
DON'T OWN THE PATENT ON THAT

00:13:26.133 --> 00:13:28.566
AND THEY'RE NOT
GETTING ROYALTY PAYMENTS

00:13:28.666 --> 00:13:31.533
FOR THE MODERNA VACCINE,
BUT SEVERAL NIH EMPLOYEES

00:13:31.633 --> 00:13:34.367
IN ANTHONY FAUCI'S
DIVISION ARE,

00:13:34.467 --> 00:13:35.733
AND THEIR CHILDREN AND
GRANDCHILDREN

00:13:35.833 --> 00:13:38.966
WILL ALSO GET THOSE ROYALTIES
FROM THE VACCINE.

00:13:39.066 --> 00:13:41.367
THAT TO ME IS A CLEAR
CONFLICT OF INTEREST AGAIN.

00:13:41.467 --> 00:13:45.067
WHEN YOU HAVE, WHEN YOU
HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE

00:13:45.167 --> 00:13:50.567
RESPONSIBLE FOR MAKING
POLICY AND FUNDING RESEARCH

00:13:50.667 --> 00:13:52.467
THAT ARE
FINANCIALLY BENEFITING

00:13:52.567 --> 00:13:55.166
FROM THE PARTICULAR
OUTCOME OF THAT RESEARCH

00:13:55.266 --> 00:13:57.234
AND HOW THOSE PRODUCTS
ARE BEING USED,

00:13:57.334 --> 00:14:00.166
THAT SETS US UP FOR
CORRUPTION AS WELL,

00:14:00.266 --> 00:14:02.100
BECAUSE THEY'RE GOING TO
MAKE A DECISION AGAIN

00:14:02.200 --> 00:14:04.433
NOT BASED ON WHAT'S
THE SAFEST AND MOST

00:14:04.533 --> 00:14:08.733
EFFICACIOUS APPROACH TO
MITIGATING THE EFFECTS

00:14:08.833 --> 00:14:09.866
OF COVID.


00:14:09.966 --> 00:14:11.100
THEY'RE GOING TO BE INCLINED,


00:14:11.200 --> 00:14:13.000
HUMAN NATURE BEING WHAT IT IS,


00:14:13.100 --> 00:14:14.467
TO GO WITH A SOLUTION


00:14:14.567 --> 00:14:16.834
THAT'S GOING TO MAKE
THEM MORE MONEY, RIGHT?

00:14:16.934 --> 00:14:18.834
AND THIS IS, AGAIN,


00:14:18.934 --> 00:14:19.967
WITH CONFLICTS OF
INTEREST YOU DON'T EVEN

00:14:20.067 --> 00:14:22.600
HAVE TO ATTRIBUTE,
YOU KNOW, ILL WILL

00:14:22.700 --> 00:14:24.567
OR MALICE TO ANYONE.


00:14:24.667 --> 00:14:26.766
IT'S JUST THESE THINGS
INFLUENCE US

00:14:26.866 --> 00:14:30.067
IN ALL KINDS OF SUBTLE AND
UNCONSCIOUS WAYS AS WELL.

00:14:30.167 --> 00:14:32.166
SO THERE'S
STRUCTURAL PROBLEMS.

00:14:32.266 --> 00:14:33.400
THIS IS NOT JUST A POINT
THE FINGER AT ONE

00:14:33.500 --> 00:14:35.066
OR ANOTHER INDIVIDUAL
AND SAY, YOU KNOW,

00:14:35.166 --> 00:14:38.466
THIS PERSON IS CORRUPT, BUT
THERE'S STRUCTURAL PROBLEMS

00:14:38.566 --> 00:14:41.700
IN OUR FEDERAL PUBLIC HEALTH
AGENCIES THAT NEED TO BE

00:14:41.800 --> 00:14:45.333
WORKED OUT TO AVOID THESE
KINDS OF CONFLICTS OF INTEREST

00:14:45.433 --> 00:14:47.934
AND THESE KINDS
OF PERVERSE INCENTIVES

00:14:48.034 --> 00:14:50.767
THAT CAN DRIVE US
IN THE WRONG DIRECTION.

00:14:50.867 --> 00:14:54.000
>> ABSOLUTELY. AND
SPEAKING OF THE VACCINE,

00:14:54.100 --> 00:14:56.000
YOU ENDED UP
NOT GETTING IT.

00:14:56.100 --> 00:14:59.667
HOW DID YOU KNOW, WHAT WAS
AN ALARM BELL TO YOU

00:14:59.767 --> 00:15:01.700
THAT MADE YOU THINK I'M
NOT GOING TO DO THIS

00:15:01.800 --> 00:15:03.967
EVEN THOUGH IT COULD
COST ME MY JOB?

00:15:04.067 --> 00:15:05.233
>> SO THE FIRST ALARM BELL


00:15:05.333 --> 00:15:07.900
IS THAT SCIENCE DOES NOT
PROGRESS AT WARP SPEED

00:15:08.000 --> 00:15:10.633
SIMPLY BECAUSE WE THROW
A LOT OF MONEY AT IT

00:15:10.733 --> 00:15:14.333
AND WE GIVE IT A FANCY NAME
LIKE OPERATION WARP SPEED.

00:15:14.433 --> 00:15:17.734
SO, I MEAN, I COMMEND
EVERYONE WHO'S WORKING HARD

00:15:17.834 --> 00:15:19.900
TO COME UP WITH
VACCINES, TO COME UP WITH

00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:22.767
OTHER SOLUTIONS TO COVID
DURING A CRISIS.

00:15:22.867 --> 00:15:25.967
I DON'T WANT TO DISPARAGE
ANYONE'S GOOD INTENTIONS,

00:15:26.067 --> 00:15:30.133
BUT AT THE SAME TIME, YOU CAN'T
MAKE SCIENCE SPEED UP

00:15:30.233 --> 00:15:32.800
SIMPLY BY SPENDING A LOT
OF MONEY ON IT.

00:15:32.900 --> 00:15:34.066
SOME THINGS TAKE TIME.


00:15:34.166 --> 00:15:36.833
SOME THINGS TAKE TIME
TO SIFT AND TO SORT OUT

00:15:36.933 --> 00:15:38.400
AND TO ANALYZE
THE RESULTS.

00:15:38.500 --> 00:15:40.700
SO I WAS CONCERNED
ABOUT THE SPEED

00:15:40.800 --> 00:15:42.400
WITH WHICH THESE
PRODUCTS WERE DEVELOPED.

00:15:42.500 --> 00:15:44.700
I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT THE
FACT THAT THEY HAD

00:15:44.800 --> 00:15:48.567
NEVER BEEN USED ON A
MASS SCALE IN HUMANS BEFORE.

00:15:48.667 --> 00:15:50.767
AND I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT THE
TECHNOLOGY ITSELF

00:15:50.867 --> 00:15:53.500
BECAUSE AS I DOVE INTO
THE MRNA TECHNOLOGY

00:15:53.600 --> 00:15:56.067
I REALIZED THAT BASICALLY
WHAT THIS IS DOING

00:15:56.167 --> 00:15:58.133
IS CREATING WHAT WAS
SUPPOSED TO BE

00:15:58.233 --> 00:16:01.700
A LOCALIZED, ESSENTIALLY
AUTOIMMUNE RESPONSE.

00:16:01.800 --> 00:16:05.200
IT'S ASKING THE CELLS IN
OUR OWN BODY TO EXPRESS

00:16:05.300 --> 00:16:08.367
THE SPIKE PROTEIN WHICH
IS FOUND ON THE VIRUS

00:16:08.467 --> 00:16:10.934
TO TRIGGER OUR IMMUNE SYSTEM


00:16:11.034 --> 00:16:12.000
TO RESPOND TO
THAT SPIKE PROTEIN,

00:16:12.100 --> 00:16:14.700
BUT IT'S GOING TO
RESPOND TO THAT SPIKE PROTEIN

00:16:14.800 --> 00:16:17.767
BY CREATING A LOCALIZED
INFLAMMATORY RESPONSE

00:16:17.867 --> 00:16:19.300
AT THE
SITE OF INJECTION.

00:16:19.400 --> 00:16:21.100
THAT WAS THE THEORY.


00:16:21.200 --> 00:16:23.900
AND IT WAS A KIND
OF AUTOIMMUNE RESPONSE

00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:25.400
THAT TRIGGERED IN MY MIND,


00:16:25.500 --> 00:16:27.966
WELL, WHAT IF THAT RESPONSE
GETS A LITTLE EXCESSIVE

00:16:28.066 --> 00:16:31.067
OR OUT OF HAND,
THAT COULD CONTRIBUTE TO

00:16:31.167 --> 00:16:33.434
A WORSENING OF
AUTOIMMUNE CONDITIONS

00:16:33.534 --> 00:16:34.966
IN VULNERABLE INDIVIDUALS,


00:16:35.066 --> 00:16:37.434
MAYBE EVEN CREATING NEW
AUTOIMMUNE CONDITIONS

00:16:37.534 --> 00:16:40.333
IN PEOPLE THAT DIDN'T
HAVE THEM BEFORE.

00:16:40.433 --> 00:16:43.634
AND THEN THERE WAS A -- THERE
WAS A PIECE OF INFORMATION

00:16:43.734 --> 00:16:46.000
THAT WAS SUPPRESSED THAT
PFIZER KNEW ABOUT.

00:16:46.100 --> 00:16:48.533
THERE WAS A STUDY
DONE IN JAPAN

00:16:48.633 --> 00:16:51.467
LOOKING AT BASICALLY
HOW THE VACCINE

00:16:51.567 --> 00:16:54.300
WAS DISTRIBUTED
THROUGHOUT THE BODY.

00:16:54.400 --> 00:16:56.233
AND NOT TO GET
TOO DOWN INTO THE WEEDS,

00:16:56.333 --> 00:17:00.667
BUT THE LIPID NANOPARTICLE
THAT CARRIED THE MRNA

00:17:00.767 --> 00:17:03.066
WAS FOUND IN ALL THE
TISSUES OF THE BODY.

00:17:03.166 --> 00:17:04.800
IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE
ANCHORED IN THE DELTOID,

00:17:04.900 --> 00:17:07.833
IN THE ARM MUSCLE WHERE
YOU GOT THE SHOT.

00:17:07.933 --> 00:17:10.333
BUT WE KNEW FROM ANIMAL
STUDIES THAT IT WAS

00:17:10.433 --> 00:17:12.834
DISTRIBUTED THROUGHOUT
THE ANIMALS BODIES.

00:17:12.934 --> 00:17:16.033
AND THE HIGHEST CONCENTRATION OF
THE LIPID NANOPARTICLE

00:17:16.133 --> 00:17:19.866
WAS FOUND IN THE OVARIES, WHICH
WAS ALSO VERY CONCERNING.

00:17:19.966 --> 00:17:23.200
AND THEN WE STARTED SEEING
EARLY ANECDOTAL REPORTS

00:17:23.300 --> 00:17:25.867
OF WOMEN DESCRIBING
MENSTRUAL IRREGULARITIES,

00:17:25.967 --> 00:17:28.567
OF WOMEN DESCRIBING
MISCARRIAGES,

00:17:28.667 --> 00:17:31.134
AND OTHER
REPRODUCTIVE-RELATED PROBLEMS

00:17:31.234 --> 00:17:32.900
AFTER GETTING THE VACCINE.


00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:34.733
SO THEN THE ALARM BELLS
STARTED GOING OFF

00:17:34.833 --> 00:17:36.167
FOR ME THAT,
HEY, WAIT A MINUTE.

00:17:36.267 --> 00:17:39.333
THIS KIND OF INFLAMMATORY
REACTION IS BEING CREATED

00:17:39.433 --> 00:17:42.300
IN MULTIPLE ORGAN
SYSTEMS IN THE BODY.

00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:44.567
WE STARTED SEEING EARLY
REPORTS OF MYOCARDITIS,

00:17:44.667 --> 00:17:46.534
WHICH IS A FANCY
WAY OF SAYING

00:17:46.634 --> 00:17:49.200
INFLAMMATION OF THE HEART,


00:17:49.300 --> 00:17:51.066
THAT WAS CREATED
BY THE VACCINE.

00:17:51.166 --> 00:17:53.267
SO BY THE TIME THE
VACCINE MANDATE CAME OUT,

00:17:53.367 --> 00:17:58.300
THERE WAS ENOUGH CONCERN
IN MY OWN MIND ABOUT SAFETY

00:17:58.400 --> 00:17:59.533
THAT I SAID, YOU KNOW,


00:17:59.633 --> 00:18:01.334
I'VE ALREADY HAD COVID


00:18:01.434 --> 00:18:03.333
SO I KNOW I HAVE ROBUST
NATURAL IMMUNITY.

00:18:03.433 --> 00:18:05.900
I'M GOING TO TAKE MY
CHANCES HERE

00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:07.100
WITHOUT THE VACCINE.


00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:09.966
I ALSO HAD CONCERNS ABOUT
EFFICACY BECAUSE YOU

00:18:10.066 --> 00:18:13.000
STARTED SEEING THAT
THE EARLY REPORTS,

00:18:13.100 --> 00:18:14.266
YOU KNOW, THIS IS
VERY EFFECTIVE,

00:18:14.366 --> 00:18:17.300
IT WILL HELP PREVENT YOU
FROM GETTING REALLY SICK

00:18:17.400 --> 00:18:18.100
IF YOU GET COVID.


00:18:18.200 --> 00:18:19.067
INITIALLY, PEOPLE
WERE SAYING

00:18:19.167 --> 00:18:20.933
IT'LL STOP INFECTION
AND TRANSMISSION.

00:18:21.033 --> 00:18:23.500
I KNEW THAT THAT WAS A LIE
BECAUSE I HAD LOOKED AT

00:18:23.600 --> 00:18:25.166
THE CLINICAL TRIALS DATA,


00:18:25.266 --> 00:18:28.400
AND THEY WERE NOT POWERED
TO ASSESS THAT QUESTION.

00:18:28.500 --> 00:18:29.600
IN OTHER WORDS,


00:18:29.700 --> 00:18:31.233
WE DIDN'T KNOW WHETHER
THESE WOULD STOP

00:18:31.333 --> 00:18:32.800
INFECTION AND TRANSMISSION.


00:18:32.900 --> 00:18:35.033
AND THEN A FEW MONTHS
INTO THE ROLLOUT,

00:18:35.133 --> 00:18:36.767
IT WAS VERY CLEAR THAT
THEY WERE NOT STOPPING

00:18:36.867 --> 00:18:38.367
INFECTION AND
TRANSMISSION.

00:18:38.467 --> 00:18:40.267
SO WE KNEW THAT
ABOUT EFFICACY.

00:18:40.367 --> 00:18:43.067
THEN WE STARTED SEEING
EFFICACY DECLINE VERY QUICKLY,

00:18:43.167 --> 00:18:43.934
WHICH IS WHY THEY SAY,


00:18:44.034 --> 00:18:46.100
OKAY, NOW AFTER A
COUPLE OF MONTHS,

00:18:46.200 --> 00:18:47.766
YOU ONLY RECENTLY
GOT YOUR VACCINE.

00:18:47.866 --> 00:18:49.900
YOU NEED A
QUOTE, UNQUOTE BOOSTER.

00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:51.467
YOU NEED ANOTHER SHOT,
RIGHT?

00:18:51.567 --> 00:18:53.200
AND THEN AFTER
THE SECOND BOOSTER,

00:18:53.300 --> 00:18:55.500
THE THIRD BOOSTER CAME
EVEN MORE QUICKLY.

00:18:55.600 --> 00:18:58.533
THAT'S BECAUSE INITIALLY
YOU GOT PROTECTION AGAINST

00:18:58.633 --> 00:19:01.400
SEVERE DISEASE MAYBE FOR
THREE OR FOUR MONTHS.

00:19:01.500 --> 00:19:02.700
AFTER THE SECOND SHOT,


00:19:02.800 --> 00:19:04.034
IT WAS ABOUT EIGHT WEEKS.


00:19:04.134 --> 00:19:05.200
AND AFTER THE THIRD SHOT,


00:19:05.300 --> 00:19:06.334
IT WAS EVEN
LESS THAN THAT.

00:19:06.434 --> 00:19:07.500
IT WAS ONLY A MONTH.


00:19:07.600 --> 00:19:09.934
SO WE'RE GETTING
DIMINISHING RETURNS.

00:19:10.034 --> 00:19:12.700
WHY ARE WE DOUBLING DOWN
ON A PRODUCT

00:19:12.800 --> 00:19:14.900
THAT IS CLEARLY FAILING?


00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:16.933
SO I FELT LIKE
BY THE TIME

00:19:17.033 --> 00:19:19.500
THE UNIVERSITY WAS GOING
TO FORCE THIS PRODUCT ON ME,

00:19:19.600 --> 00:19:23.166
I HAD ENOUGH INFORMATION
ABOUT DECLINING EFFICACY;

00:19:23.266 --> 00:19:26.234
I HAD ENOUGH INFORMATION
ABOUT EARLY WARNING SIGNS

00:19:26.334 --> 00:19:29.133
AND SAFETY CONCERNS;


00:19:29.233 --> 00:19:32.333
AND I HAD MY ETHICAL
PRINCIPLES OF INFORMED CONSENT

00:19:32.433 --> 00:19:34.366
THAT, YOU KNOW, I HAD
MORE THAN ENOUGH TO GO ON

00:19:34.466 --> 00:19:36.333
TO SAY THIS IS NOT SOMETHING,


00:19:36.433 --> 00:19:38.067
THIS IS NOT A PRODUCT THAT
I WANT TO TAKE.

00:19:38.167 --> 00:19:39.567
THIS IS NOT A PRODUCT
I'M GOING TO ADVISE

00:19:39.667 --> 00:19:41.966
MY FAMILY MEMBERS TO TAKE.


00:19:42.066 --> 00:19:44.900
>> AND I THINK ANOTHER
REALLY IMPORTANT THING

00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:47.567
THAT WE HOPEFULLY --


00:19:47.667 --> 00:19:49.467
I HOPE PEOPLE HAVE
LEARNED FROM COVID

00:19:49.567 --> 00:19:52.134
IS NOT TO ALLOW FEAR


00:19:52.234 --> 00:19:53.566
>> THAT'S RIGHT.


00:19:53.666 --> 00:19:55.933
>> TO CAUSE US TO MAKE
VERY IMPORTANT DECISIONS

00:19:56.033 --> 00:19:59.834
THAT ARE GOING TO CHANGE
OUR FUTURE OF OUR NATION.

00:19:59.934 --> 00:20:01.100
>> THAT'S RIGHT.


00:20:01.200 --> 00:20:04.766
WE'RE TEMPTED UNDER
THESE CRISIS SITUATIONS,

00:20:04.866 --> 00:20:07.500
THAT'S PRECISELY WHEN
WE'RE TEMPTED TO

00:20:07.600 --> 00:20:09.967
ABANDON OUR ETHICAL
PRINCIPLES, RIGHT.

00:20:10.067 --> 00:20:12.100
THE PRINCIPLE OF INFORMED
CONSENT SOUNDS GREAT

00:20:12.200 --> 00:20:14.167
WHEN EVERYTHING IS
CALM AND NORMAL,

00:20:14.267 --> 00:20:15.800
BUT NOW THIS IS AN EMERGENCY
AND WE HAVE TO

00:20:15.900 --> 00:20:17.600
GET PEOPLE TO
DO THIS OTHERWISE

00:20:17.700 --> 00:20:19.400
BAD THINGS ARE
GOING TO HAPPEN.

00:20:19.500 --> 00:20:25.200
YOU KNOW, WARTIME, PANDEMICS,
OTHER PUBLIC EMERGENCIES,

00:20:25.300 --> 00:20:28.767
ARE PRECISELY WHEN WE NEED
TO GO BACK TO THE BASICS

00:20:28.867 --> 00:20:32.166
AND STAND FIRM ON WHAT WE
KNOW TO BE TRUE.

00:20:32.266 --> 00:20:35.300
BECAUSE FEAR TENDS TO
MAKE US LOSE OUR HEADS.

00:20:35.400 --> 00:20:37.167
IT TENDS TO BEWILDER US.


00:20:37.267 --> 00:20:40.700
IT TENDS TO DRIVE US
IN DIRECTIONS OF

00:20:40.800 --> 00:20:45.200
DOING ILL-ADVISED THINGS
AND ALSO TREATING OTHER PEOPLE

00:20:45.300 --> 00:20:50.000
IN WAYS THAT ARE NOT
CONSISTENT WITH OUR VALUES.

00:20:50.100 --> 00:20:52.266
AND THIS IS ANOTHER THING
THAT WE SAW DURING THE PANDEMIC.

00:20:52.366 --> 00:20:54.367
I'M VERY CONCERNED
ABOUT MY FRIEND,

00:20:54.467 --> 00:20:57.166
MATTIAS DESMET IS A
SOCIAL PSYCHOLOGIST

00:20:57.266 --> 00:20:58.700
WHO'S TALKED A LOT ABOUT THIS,


00:20:58.800 --> 00:21:01.167
THIS CONCEPT OF MASS FORMATION.


00:21:01.267 --> 00:21:03.500
THAT UNDER THIS
CLIMATE OF FEAR,

00:21:03.600 --> 00:21:07.633
MANY PEOPLE ENTERED INTO A KIND
OF ALMOST HYPNOTIC STATE

00:21:07.733 --> 00:21:11.067
WHERE THERE WAS A TENDENCY
TO SCAPEGOAT AND DEMONIZE PEOPLE

00:21:11.167 --> 00:21:13.966
THAT WERE NOT GOING
ALONG WITH THE PROGRAM.

00:21:14.066 --> 00:21:19.300
WHICH CREATED ENORMOUS
PRESSURES TO CONFORM, RIGHT?

00:21:19.400 --> 00:21:21.434
BUT I THINK ONE OF
THE LESSONS THAT WE CAN

00:21:21.534 --> 00:21:26.833
TAKE FROM THE PANDEMIC IS
THAT WE CANNOT LIVE IN FEAR.

00:21:26.933 --> 00:21:30.300
AND THAT, YOU KNOW,
OUR BODILY HEALTH,

00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:33.334
IF IT'S THREATENED, IS
NOT THE HIGHEST GOOD.

00:21:33.434 --> 00:21:35.700
OBVIOUSLY NO ONE WANTS
TO GET SICK,

00:21:35.800 --> 00:21:39.566
OBVIOUSLY THERE'S A NATURAL
HUMAN FEAR OF DEATH

00:21:39.666 --> 00:21:41.967
THAT INFLUENCES US
PSYCHOLOGICALLY.

00:21:42.067 --> 00:21:43.300
I MEAN, I'M A
PSYCHIATRIST.

00:21:43.400 --> 00:21:46.300
I'D BE THE LAST PERSON IN
THE WORLD TO DENY THIS.

00:21:46.400 --> 00:21:49.100
BUT ESPECIALLY AS CHRISTIANS,
AS PEOPLE OF FAITH,

00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:52.400
WE NEED TO REMEMBER
THAT OUR BODILY HEALTH

00:21:52.500 --> 00:21:54.433
IS NOT THE HIGHEST
GOOD, RIGHT.

00:21:54.533 --> 00:21:57.733
THERE ARE SPIRITUAL GOODS
RELATED TO BEING WILLING

00:21:57.833 --> 00:22:00.500
TO SPEAK AND
LIVE THE TRUTH,

00:22:00.600 --> 00:22:03.000
TREATING OTHER PEOPLE
WITH LOVE,

00:22:03.100 --> 00:22:05.367
WORSHIPPING GOD.


00:22:05.467 --> 00:22:10.533
I MEAN, CHURCHES CLOSING DOWN
WHILE BARS AND LIQUOR STORES

00:22:10.633 --> 00:22:13.300
AND MARIJUANA
DISPENSARIES REMAIN OPEN

00:22:13.400 --> 00:22:15.867
BECAUSE THOSE ARE
ESSENTIAL SERVICES

00:22:15.967 --> 00:22:19.767
AND SOMEHOW THE COMMUNAL
WORSHIP OF GOD

00:22:19.867 --> 00:22:22.133
IS AN OPTIONAL EXTRA
THAT WE CAN DISCARD.

00:22:22.233 --> 00:22:24.133
NO. CHRISTIANS NEED TO
STAND UP AND SAY

00:22:24.233 --> 00:22:28.867
NO, THIS IS NOT HOW A SANE
SOCIETY SHOULD OPERATE.

00:22:28.967 --> 00:22:32.800
THERE ARE HIGHER HUMAN AND
SPIRITUAL GOODS

00:22:32.900 --> 00:22:35.400
THAT CAN NEVER BE DISCARDED,


00:22:35.500 --> 00:22:37.700
EVEN DURING DIFFICULT TIMES.


00:22:37.800 --> 00:22:40.300
EVEN DURING PANDEMICS,
EVEN DURING WARTIME.

00:22:40.400 --> 00:22:41.500
I MEAN, ONE OF THE THINGS
THAT I WAS REALLY

00:22:41.600 --> 00:22:46.300
DISAPPOINTED IN IS THAT
CHRISTIANS AND, YOU KNOW,

00:22:46.400 --> 00:22:48.867
MINISTERS AND PRIESTS
DID NOT PUSH BACK

00:22:48.967 --> 00:22:51.633
MORE FORCEFULLY
AGAINST HOSPITALS,

00:22:51.733 --> 00:22:55.800
WHERE PEOPLE WERE DYING ALONE,
WITHOUT SPIRITUAL CARE,

00:22:55.900 --> 00:22:57.467
WITHOUT MINISTRY.


00:22:57.567 --> 00:22:59.533
AND MY OWN CATHOLIC
TRADITION WITHOUT BEING ABLE

00:22:59.633 --> 00:23:04.600
TO RECEIVE FROM A PRIEST
THE SACRAMENTS

00:23:04.700 --> 00:23:05.434
THAT WE GIVE TO PEOPLE,
ESPECIALLY --

00:23:05.534 --> 00:23:06.334
WELL, TO ALL PEOPLE


00:23:06.434 --> 00:23:07.600
BUT ESPECIALLY WHEN
THEY'RE DYING

00:23:07.700 --> 00:23:11.434
TO PREPARE THEM TO
MEET THEIR MAKER.

00:23:11.534 --> 00:23:13.967
THIS IS A BIBLICAL
PRINCIPLE THAT WE'RE NOT

00:23:14.067 --> 00:23:16.633
GOING TO ABANDON EVEN WHEN
THINGS ARE DIFFICULT.

00:23:16.733 --> 00:23:18.834
AND WE'LL TAKE ALL REASONABLE
NECESSARY PRECAUTIONS,

00:23:18.934 --> 00:23:21.900
YOU KNOW, NOT TO SPREAD THE
VIRUS AND SO ON AND SO FORTH,

00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:25.200
BUT WE'RE NOT GOING
TO ALLOW PEOPLE TO DIE ALONE

00:23:25.300 --> 00:23:27.867
WITHOUT THE COMPANY
OF FAMILY AND FRIENDS

00:23:27.967 --> 00:23:30.667
AND PEOPLE WHO CAN
MINISTER TO THEM.

00:23:30.767 --> 00:23:32.433
I THINK THAT WAS
A GREAT TRAVESTY,

00:23:32.533 --> 00:23:35.100
AND I HOPE -- I HOPE AND PRAY
THAT CHRISTIANS

00:23:35.200 --> 00:23:37.167
AND OTHER PEOPLE OF FAITH
IN THE UNITED STATES

00:23:37.267 --> 00:23:40.467
NEVER ALLOW SOMETHING LIKE
THAT TO HAPPEN AGAIN,

00:23:40.567 --> 00:23:44.366
AND THAT WE DON'T
ABANDON OUR PRINCIPLES.

00:23:44.466 --> 00:23:48.300
BECAUSE PRAYER AND
COLLECTIVE WORSHIP OF GOD,

00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:50.200
AND GOING TO CHURCH ON
SUNDAYS AND MINISTERING

00:23:50.300 --> 00:23:52.234
TO THE SICK AND THE DYING,


00:23:52.334 --> 00:23:54.066
THESE ARE NOT
OPTIONAL EXTRAS.

00:23:54.166 --> 00:23:57.200
THESE ARE THINGS THAT
WE CAN NEVER ABANDON.

00:23:57.300 --> 00:23:59.933
IF YOU LOOK AT, YOU LOOK
AT PERIODS IN TIMES PAST,

00:24:00.033 --> 00:24:02.933
PEOPLE RISKED THEIR LIVES
DURING THE PLAGUE

00:24:03.033 --> 00:24:05.633
AND OTHER PANDEMICS TO
MINISTER TO THE SICK.

00:24:05.733 --> 00:24:09.933
SOMETIMES EVEN SACRIFICING
THEIR LIFE IN ORDER TO

00:24:10.033 --> 00:24:13.767
CARE FOR THOSE WHO WHO
NEEDED CHRIST'S LOVE,

00:24:13.867 --> 00:24:15.933
ESPECIALLY IN THAT MOMENT,


00:24:16.033 --> 00:24:17.967
ESPECIALLY IN THEIR SUFFERING.


00:24:18.067 --> 00:24:19.734
AND, YOU KNOW, THIS BRINGS
ME TO THE OTHER THING

00:24:19.834 --> 00:24:21.467
THAT WE TALKED ABOUT
EARLIER TODAY,

00:24:21.567 --> 00:24:24.633
THIS THEME
OF SUFFERING.

00:24:24.733 --> 00:24:28.867
I THINK PERHAPS ONE OF THE
LESSONS OF THE PANDEMIC

00:24:28.967 --> 00:24:32.933
IS THAT, YOU KNOW,
CHRISTIANS IN AMERICA

00:24:33.033 --> 00:24:37.533
PERHAPS HAVE FORGOTTEN
HOW TO SUFFER WELL,

00:24:37.633 --> 00:24:40.766
HOW TO CARRY THE CROSS,


00:24:40.866 --> 00:24:43.667
AND THAT WE LET
FEAR OVER OVERTAKE US.

00:24:43.767 --> 00:24:47.000
AND, YOU KNOW,
EVERYONE LOVES --

00:24:47.100 --> 00:24:49.467
EVERYONE LOVES CHRIST,
THE TEACHER,

00:24:49.567 --> 00:24:51.634
THE WISE TEACHER AND
THE BRILLIANT PREACHER.

00:24:51.734 --> 00:24:54.800
EVERYONE LOVES
CHRIST, THE HEALER,

00:24:54.900 --> 00:24:56.466
WHO CURES THE SICK
AND HEALS THE BLIND

00:24:56.466 --> 00:24:57.433
AND THE LAME.


00:24:57.533 --> 00:25:00.600
EVERYONE LOVES THE
GLORIFIED AND RISEN CHRIST

00:25:00.700 --> 00:25:02.133
WHO CONQUERED DEATH.


00:25:02.233 --> 00:25:04.900
BUT VERY OFTEN, ESPECIALLY
IN OUR, YOU KNOW,

00:25:05.000 --> 00:25:08.900
COMFORTABLE, AFFLUENT,
BOURGEOIS SOCIETY,

00:25:09.000 --> 00:25:11.900
WE FORGET ABOUT THE
SUFFERING CHRIST.

00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:15.333
WE FORGET ABOUT CHRIST
IN HIS PASSION.

00:25:15.433 --> 00:25:16.967
CHRIST'S SUFFERING,
HIS ANGUISH

00:25:17.067 --> 00:25:18.933
IN THE GARDEN OF GETHSEMANE,


00:25:19.033 --> 00:25:22.300
HIS ARREST, HIS ABANDONMENT
BY HIS FRIENDS,

00:25:22.400 --> 00:25:26.100
THE CARRYING OF THE CROSS
AND THE CRUCIFIXION.

00:25:26.200 --> 00:25:28.667
AND I THINK -- I THINK
RIGHT NOW

00:25:28.767 --> 00:25:30.900
AT THIS MOMENT IN HISTORY,


00:25:31.000 --> 00:25:33.633
IT IS INCUMBENT UPON
CHRISTIANS TO KNOW

00:25:33.733 --> 00:25:37.700
THE WHOLE CHRIST, OBVIOUSLY TO
PRAY AND MEDITATE,

00:25:37.800 --> 00:25:39.500
AND READ DEEPLY ON THOSE
GOSPEL PASSAGES THAT ARE

00:25:39.600 --> 00:25:42.833
SO BEAUTIFUL AND CONSOLING
OF HIS PREACHING,

00:25:42.933 --> 00:25:44.500
AND HIS TEACHING, AND HIS
MIRACLES, AND HIS HEALING,

00:25:44.600 --> 00:25:46.067
AND HIS RESURRECTION.


00:25:46.167 --> 00:25:50.866
BUT NOT TO SKIP OVER AND AS
THE GOSPEL WRITERS DON'T,

00:25:50.966 --> 00:25:53.267
I MEAN, ONE-THIRD OF
THE GOSPEL OF MARK

00:25:53.367 --> 00:25:56.566
IS DEVOTED TO THE
24 HOURS OF JESUS' LIFE

00:25:56.666 --> 00:25:58.967
BETWEEN WHEN HE IS
ARRESTED AND WHEN HE DIES.

00:25:59.067 --> 00:26:02.934
BECAUSE THAT PERIOD OF HIS
SUFFERING IS SO IMPORTANT.

00:26:03.034 --> 00:26:05.100
SO, A FRIEND
TAUGHT ME THIS PRAYER,

00:26:05.200 --> 00:26:07.534
TEACH ME YOUR SUFFERING.


00:26:07.634 --> 00:26:09.467
YOU KNOW, AND I'M A
CATHOLIC SO WE LIKE,

00:26:09.567 --> 00:26:12.100
WE LIKE OUR LATIN.
[ SPEAKING LATIN ]

00:26:12.200 --> 00:26:13.500
IS THE LATIN AND
THE LATIN IS NICE

00:26:13.600 --> 00:26:16.867
BECAUSE THAT WORD
PASSIO MEANS BOTH

00:26:16.967 --> 00:26:18.033
SUFFERING AND PASSION,


00:26:18.133 --> 00:26:20.666
AS IN OUR LORD'S,
OUR LORD'S PASSION.

00:26:20.766 --> 00:26:24.134
SO GOING MORE DEEPLY
INTO MEDITATING ON

00:26:24.234 --> 00:26:26.400
WHAT OUR LORD
SUFFERED FOR US

00:26:26.500 --> 00:26:32.834
WHICH IS NOT
PRETTY, RIGHT?

00:26:32.934 --> 00:26:34.300
WHICH INVOLVED BLOOD


00:26:34.400 --> 00:26:36.900
AND SWEAT AND TEARS
AND GRIT,

00:26:37.000 --> 00:26:38.700
BUT HE DID THAT
OUT OF LOVE FOR US.

00:26:38.800 --> 00:26:43.467
THAT'S PRECISELY WHAT HE
DID IN ORDER TO REDEEM US.

00:26:43.567 --> 00:26:46.966
AND WE HAVE -- WE HAVE
TO LEARN FROM THAT AS CHRISTIANS

00:26:47.066 --> 00:26:50.333
BECAUSE IN THIS LIFE,
ON THIS SIDE OF ETERNITY

00:26:50.433 --> 00:26:52.866
BEFORE WE ARE GLORIFIED
WITH GOD IN HEAVEN,

00:26:52.966 --> 00:26:56.033
WE'RE GOING TO ENCOUNTER
THE CROSS, RIGHT?

00:26:56.133 --> 00:26:58.366
IT'S NOT THAT JESUS SUFFERED SO
THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO,

00:26:58.466 --> 00:27:00.667
IT'S THAT HE SUFFERED
SO THAT WE CAN FIND HIM

00:27:00.767 --> 00:27:03.466
THERE IN HIS SUFFERING.


00:27:03.566 --> 00:27:07.233
WHEN WE ENCOUNTER THE CROSS,
HE WHO WOULD FOLLOW ME

00:27:07.333 --> 00:27:08.600
MUST DENY HIMSELF,


00:27:08.700 --> 00:27:10.267
TAKE UP HIS CROSS AND
FOLLOW ME

00:27:10.367 --> 00:27:12.867
IS ONE OF THOSE DIFFICULT
PASSAGES IN THE GOSPEL

00:27:12.967 --> 00:27:15.900
THAT WE'RE MAYBE
INCLINED TO GLOSS OVER

00:27:16.000 --> 00:27:19.300
OR LIKE, MAYBE HE
DIDN'T REALLY MEAN THAT

00:27:19.400 --> 00:27:20.400
AND HE'S GOING TO,
HE'S GOING TO FIX THIS.

00:27:20.500 --> 00:27:23.300
HE'S GOING TO CURE MY
LOVED ONE OF CANCER,

00:27:23.400 --> 00:27:25.434
OR HE'S GOING TO TAKE THIS,


00:27:25.534 --> 00:27:27.534
YOU KNOW, PERIOD OF
UNEMPLOYMENT AWAY FROM ME.

00:27:27.634 --> 00:27:28.767
AND WE SHOULD
PRAY FOR THAT.

00:27:28.867 --> 00:27:31.067
WE SHOULD PRAY FOR A CURE,
AND MIRACLES STILL DO HAPPEN

00:27:31.167 --> 00:27:33.433
AND CURES
STILL DO HAPPEN.

00:27:33.533 --> 00:27:35.366
BUT SOMETIMES GOD DOESN'T
GRANT US THE CURE.

00:27:35.466 --> 00:27:38.266
SOMETIMES WHAT HE GRANTS
US IS THE GRACE

00:27:38.366 --> 00:27:41.634
TO PICK UP THAT CROSS
AND CARRY IT WITH HIM

00:27:41.734 --> 00:27:42.900
AND TO LEARN HOW TO SUFFER


00:27:43.000 --> 00:27:46.433
FOR THE SAKE OF THE TRUTH,
TO LEARN HOW TO SUFFER

00:27:46.533 --> 00:27:49.067
FOR THE SAKE OF BEING ABLE TO
MINISTER TO OTHERS,

00:27:49.167 --> 00:27:51.667
AND CARE FOR OTHERS
AND LOVE ONE ANOTHER

00:27:51.767 --> 00:27:53.400
AS HE TAUGHT US TO DO.


00:27:53.500 --> 00:27:56.600
I THINK THIS IS
A LESSON THAT PERHAPS

00:27:56.700 --> 00:28:01.100
WE NEED TO TAKE AWAY
FROM THAT PERIOD OF COVID,

00:28:01.200 --> 00:28:03.834
THAT CHRISTIANS NEED
TO GO MORE DEEPLY INTO

00:28:03.934 --> 00:28:06.066
OUR LORD'S PASSION,
TO PRAY THIS PRAYER,

00:28:06.166 --> 00:28:08.433
TEACH ME YOUR SUFFERING,
TEACH ME YOUR PASSION.

00:28:08.533 --> 00:28:09.934
[ SPEAKING LATIN ]


00:28:10.034 --> 00:28:12.967
TEACH ME TO KNOW YOU, NOT
JUST IN THE JOYFUL TIMES.

00:28:13.067 --> 00:28:14.934
OBVIOUSLY WE
HAVE TO FIND HIM THERE.

00:28:15.034 --> 00:28:16.666
HE WANTS US TO
FIND HIM, YOU KNOW,

00:28:16.766 --> 00:28:20.300
IN THE BEAUTIFUL SUNSET,
IN THE TRANQUIL MOMENTS,

00:28:20.400 --> 00:28:22.600
IN THE MOMENTS OF
ELATION AND JOY.

00:28:22.700 --> 00:28:25.934
BUT ALSO THAT OUR JOY
IS AT TIMES ROOTED

00:28:26.034 --> 00:28:28.900
IN THE SHAPE OF THE CROSS.


00:28:29.000 --> 00:28:32.400
AND WE HAVE TO PRAY FOR
THE GRACE TO KNOW CHRIST,

00:28:32.500 --> 00:28:34.967
TO KNOW THE WHOLE CHRIST,
INCLUDING THE SUFFERING CHRIST.

00:28:35.067 --> 00:28:36.834
BECAUSE IN THIS WORLD
WE'RE GOING TO

00:28:36.934 --> 00:28:39.300
ENCOUNTER CHALLENGES
AND DIFFICULTIES

00:28:39.400 --> 00:28:42.534
AND THAT'S PRECISELY WHEN
OUR FAITH IS TESTED,

00:28:42.634 --> 00:28:46.700
AND WHEN WE NEED TO
FIND HIM THERE

00:28:46.800 --> 00:28:48.200
IN HIS LONELINESS,
IN HIS, YOU KNOW,

00:28:48.300 --> 00:28:52.500
BEING ABANDONED BY
ALL OF HIS FRIENDS BUT ONE.

00:28:52.600 --> 00:28:55.200
YOU KNOW, JOHN WAS THE
ONLY ONE OF THE 12 APOSTLES

00:28:55.300 --> 00:28:58.333
THERE WITH MARY
AT THE FOOT OF THE CROSS,

00:28:58.433 --> 00:28:59.567
AS THE GOSPEL OF JOHN


00:28:59.667 --> 00:29:02.367
DESCRIBES ALL THE
OTHERS FLED IN FEAR.

00:29:02.467 --> 00:29:05.000
HOW DO WE BECOME THE KIND
OF DISCIPLES WHO WILL

00:29:05.100 --> 00:29:08.400
ACCOMPANY HIM EVEN THERE
TO THE FOOT OF THE CROSS

00:29:08.500 --> 00:29:12.033
AND STAND BY AND SUFFER
WITH HIM.

00:29:12.133 --> 00:29:15.167
CHRISTIANS TALK ABOUT
THE WORD COMPASSION.

00:29:15.267 --> 00:29:17.134
WHAT DOES THE WORD
MEAN LITERALLY?

00:29:17.234 --> 00:29:20.633
COMPASSIO, THE ROOT,


00:29:20.733 --> 00:29:23.600
LITERALLY MEANS TO
SUFFER WITH.

00:29:23.700 --> 00:29:24.867
SO, YOU KNOW, BEING
COMPASSIONATE ISN'T JUST

00:29:24.967 --> 00:29:27.867
BEING KIND AND CARING, BUT
IT'S WILLING TO BEAR

00:29:27.967 --> 00:29:29.400
ONE ANOTHER'S BURDENS.


00:29:29.500 --> 00:29:31.933
AND IT'S WILLING
AT TIMES TO SUFFER

00:29:32.033 --> 00:29:33.700
FOR THE SAKE
OF THE GOSPEL.

00:29:33.800 --> 00:29:36.300
THE HIGHEST FORM OF THAT
BEING OBVIOUSLY PEOPLE

00:29:36.400 --> 00:29:38.833
WHO HAVE GIVEN THEIR LIVES,
LITERALLY THE MARTYRS

00:29:38.933 --> 00:29:42.234
WHO HAVE GIVEN THEIR LIVES FOR
THE SAKE OF THE GOSPEL.

00:29:42.334 --> 00:29:44.433
INSTEAD OF, YOU KNOW, RATHER
THAN RENOUNCE MY FAITH,

00:29:44.533 --> 00:29:47.733
RATHER THAN RENOUNCE MY
DEVOTION, MY BELIEF IN CHRIST,

00:29:47.833 --> 00:29:49.600
RATHER THAN
RENOUNCE THE TRUTH,

00:29:49.700 --> 00:29:52.367
I'M GOING TO GIVE UP


00:29:52.467 --> 00:29:53.667
YOU KNOW, THE
HIGHEST BODILY GOOD,

00:29:53.767 --> 00:29:55.600
WHICH IS MY HUMAN LIFE.


00:29:55.700 --> 00:29:58.033
SO CHRISTIANS ARE CALLED
TO HEAL THE SICK.

00:29:58.133 --> 00:30:01.967
WE'RE CALLED OBVIOUSLY TO
MITIGATE DISEASE.

00:30:02.067 --> 00:30:05.667
WE DON'T EMBRACE SUFFERING
AS A GOOD IN ITSELF, RIGHT,

00:30:05.767 --> 00:30:08.467
YOU KNOW, WE CAN STILL
CRY OUT AND COMPLAIN

00:30:08.567 --> 00:30:10.267
TO GOD WHEN WE SUFFER.


00:30:10.367 --> 00:30:11.400
SO, IT'S OKAY.


00:30:11.500 --> 00:30:14.034
EVEN OUR LORD, YOU KNOW,
BEFORE HIS PASSION, PRAYED

00:30:14.134 --> 00:30:15.633
YOU KNOW, FATHER,
IF IT'S YOUR WILL,

00:30:15.733 --> 00:30:16.767
TAKE THIS CUP FROM ME,


00:30:16.867 --> 00:30:18.767
BUT THEN THAT PRAYER
WAS COUPLED WITH,

00:30:18.867 --> 00:30:21.733
BUT NOT MY WILL BUT
THINE BE DONE.

00:30:21.833 --> 00:30:24.000
SO OUR LORD IN HIS HUMANITY


00:30:24.100 --> 00:30:26.134
NATURALLY RECOILED
FROM THE SUFFERING

00:30:26.234 --> 00:30:28.000
THAT HE WAS ABOUT TO FACE.


00:30:28.100 --> 00:30:30.934
BUT HE ALSO EMBRACED IT
OUT OF HIS REDEMPTIVE LOVE

00:30:31.034 --> 00:30:33.066
FOR US AND THAT'S THE
DISPOSITION

00:30:33.166 --> 00:30:35.100
THAT WE WANT TO CULTIVATE,
I THINK,

00:30:35.200 --> 00:30:36.600
AS FOLLOWERS OF CHRIST.


00:30:36.700 --> 00:30:37.733
>> ABSOLUTELY.


00:30:37.833 --> 00:30:39.866
YOU KNOW, I KEPT THINKING
ABOUT THE APOSTLE PAUL,

00:30:39.966 --> 00:30:41.867
BECAUSE HE TALKS A LOT
ABOUT SUFFERING

00:30:41.967 --> 00:30:44.367
AND THERE'S THIS UNDERSTANDING
THAT HE WOULD ALWAYS SAY,

00:30:44.467 --> 00:30:45.633
I SUFFER FOR YOUR SAKE.


00:30:45.733 --> 00:30:47.100
THERE WAS THIS
UNDERSTANDING THAT THE

00:30:47.200 --> 00:30:49.600
SUFFERING THAT HE ENDURED
WAS FOR THE GOOD

00:30:49.700 --> 00:30:51.533
AND THE EXPANSION OF
GOD'S KINGDOM.

00:30:51.633 --> 00:30:52.667
>> THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT.


00:30:52.767 --> 00:30:54.500
>> PAUL SAYS IN PHILIPPIANS,
HE ACTUALLY

00:30:54.600 --> 00:30:55.867
HITS ON THAT VERY POINT.


00:30:55.967 --> 00:30:58.666
HE SAYS I WANT TO KNOW
CHRIST, BUT HE SAYS

00:30:58.766 --> 00:31:00.734
THE POWER OF HIS
RESURRECTION, BUT HE ALSO SAYS

00:31:00.834 --> 00:31:02.800
THE FELLOWSHIP OF HIS
SUFFERINGS.

00:31:02.900 --> 00:31:04.500
AND SO PAUL
ACTUALLY ENCOMPASSES

00:31:04.600 --> 00:31:06.833
KNOWING THE FULLNESS OF CHRIST,


00:31:06.933 --> 00:31:09.633
NOT JUST IN THE GLORY
AND THE RESURRECTION,

00:31:09.733 --> 00:31:11.567
NOT JUST IN THE POWER THAT
RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD,

00:31:11.667 --> 00:31:13.167
BUT ALSO THE SUFFERING.


00:31:13.267 --> 00:31:14.867
AND WHAT I LOVE IS THAT


00:31:14.967 --> 00:31:17.233
HE SAYS, YOU KNOW, OUR
PRESENT SUFFERINGS,

00:31:17.333 --> 00:31:20.167
AND HE SUFFERED GREATLY,
YOU KNOW,

00:31:20.267 --> 00:31:22.600
WHEN I THINK ABOUT
MY LIFE COMPARED TO HIS,

00:31:22.700 --> 00:31:24.600
SHIPWRECKED AND BEATINGS
AND JAILING FOR YEARS.

00:31:24.700 --> 00:31:25.766
>> STONING.


00:31:25.866 --> 00:31:29.533
>> I MEAN, HE GOT BEHEADED AT
THE END OF HIS LIFE.

00:31:29.633 --> 00:31:32.500
BUT HE SAYS THAT, HE
HAD THIS REVELATION FROM GOD

00:31:32.600 --> 00:31:34.800
WHERE HE SAID OUR
PRESENT SUFFERINGS

00:31:34.900 --> 00:31:38.300
ARE SHORT AND SMALL
COMPARED TO THE GLORY,

00:31:38.400 --> 00:31:40.467
THE WEIGHT OF GLORY
THAT IS IN STORE.

00:31:40.567 --> 00:31:42.000
AND SO WE HAVE TO
HAVE AS THE CHURCH,

00:31:42.100 --> 00:31:44.733
WE HAVE TO HAVE THIS
HEAVENLY PERSPECTIVE

00:31:44.833 --> 00:31:46.500
THAT DRIVES US
UNDERSTANDING THAT THIS LIFE

00:31:46.600 --> 00:31:47.933
IS SHORT AND TEMPORAL.


00:31:48.033 --> 00:31:49.500
BUT IT WILL AFFECT
ETERNITY, WHAT WE DO

00:31:49.600 --> 00:31:50.667
ON THIS EARTH;


00:31:50.767 --> 00:31:52.333
AND THAT WE NEED
TO BE OBEDIENT.

00:31:52.433 --> 00:31:54.400
WHATEVER THE PRICE
THAT WE HAVE TO PAY.

00:31:54.500 --> 00:31:57.600
HE PAID THE BIGGEST PRICE
FOR US AND THAT

00:31:57.700 --> 00:31:59.000
THROUGH HIS SUFFERING,


00:31:59.100 --> 00:32:01.900
HE ENABLED US TO BE ABLE
TO HAVE RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM.

00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:03.733
AND SO EVEN WHEN
WE SUFFER FOR HIM,

00:32:03.833 --> 00:32:05.333
WE ARE NEVER SUPPOSED
TO DO IT ALONE.

00:32:05.433 --> 00:32:08.000
HE'S ALWAYS THERE WITH US
AND GIVING US THE GRACE

00:32:08.100 --> 00:32:11.533
THAT WE NEED IN
THOSE HARD TIMES.

00:32:11.633 --> 00:32:14.500
>> JUST SO -- AND PAUL
REALIZED BECAUSE OF

00:32:14.600 --> 00:32:16.867
THE GRACES THAT WERE GIVEN TO
HIM AND THE VISIONS THAT

00:32:16.967 --> 00:32:20.700
WERE GIVEN TO HIM, THAT
THE PRIZE THAT AWAITS US

00:32:20.800 --> 00:32:24.000
IS SO GLORIOUS, SO BEYOND
OUR DESCRIPTION,

00:32:24.100 --> 00:32:27.467
THAT WHATEVER SUFFERINGS WE
ENDURE IN THIS LIFE,

00:32:27.567 --> 00:32:30.733
AND THIS IS NOT TO TRIVIALIZE
HORRIFYING THINGS.

00:32:30.833 --> 00:32:34.433
I'M A PSYCHIATRIST, I GO
KNEE-DEEP INTO

00:32:34.533 --> 00:32:35.800
PEOPLE'S SUFFERINGS EVERY DAY.


00:32:35.900 --> 00:32:38.700
AND MANY PEOPLE HAVE SUFFERED
UNSPEAKABLE HORRORS,

00:32:38.800 --> 00:32:42.034
FROM TORTURE TO
CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE,

00:32:42.134 --> 00:32:44.700
TO, YOU KNOW,
THINGS THAT ARE JUST

00:32:44.800 --> 00:32:48.700
SO HARD FOR US TO EVEN
CONTEMPLATE AS HUMAN BEINGS.

00:32:48.800 --> 00:32:50.967
AND NOT TO TRIVIALIZE
ANY OF THOSE THINGS,

00:32:51.067 --> 00:32:54.266
BUT EVEN THEN, WHATEVER
WE SUFFER IN THIS LIFE

00:32:54.366 --> 00:32:57.167
IS NOTHING COMPARED
TO THE GLORY

00:32:57.267 --> 00:32:59.300
THAT AWAITS US.


00:32:59.400 --> 00:33:02.000
IF WE SUFFER IN FAITH, IF
WE GO TO CHRIST,

00:33:02.100 --> 00:33:07.100
IF WE ARE UNITED TO HIM ON THE
CROSS IN THAT SUFFERING.

00:33:07.200 --> 00:33:09.700
THIS LIFE IS THE
BLINK OF AN EYE,

00:33:09.800 --> 00:33:11.833
AND IT WILL BE GONE SOON.


00:33:11.933 --> 00:33:15.833
AND IF WE PUT, IF WE PUT
ALL OF OUR HOPE

00:33:15.933 --> 00:33:21.500
IN WORLDLY HAPPINESS AND SUCCESS
ACCORDING TO WORLDLY METRICS,

00:33:21.600 --> 00:33:23.534
AND HEALTH AND
WEALTH AND CONTENTMENT

00:33:23.634 --> 00:33:25.800
IN THIS LIFE,


00:33:25.900 --> 00:33:28.567
FIRST OF ALL, WE'RE NOT
GOING TO FIND THAT.

00:33:28.667 --> 00:33:31.233
>> YEAH.


00:33:31.333 --> 00:33:32.933
>> OUR HEARTS ARE
NOT GOING TO BE SATISFIED

00:33:33.033 --> 00:33:34.900
BY WHAT THIS WORLD HAS
TO OFFER,

00:33:35.000 --> 00:33:37.167
BUT WE'RE ALSO GOING TO
GIVE UP SOMETHING

00:33:37.267 --> 00:33:39.700
THAT IS SO MUCH MORE,


00:33:39.800 --> 00:33:41.967
YOU KNOW, INFINITELY
MORE GREAT

00:33:42.067 --> 00:33:43.866
THAN ANYTHING THAT
WE COULD IMAGINE HERE.

00:33:43.966 --> 00:33:47.634
SO THAT PERSPECTIVE OF
ETERNITY WHICH PAUL HAS,

00:33:47.734 --> 00:33:49.433
WHICH HE TEACHES US IN
HIS LETTERS

00:33:49.533 --> 00:33:50.734
IN THE NEW TESTAMENT,


00:33:50.834 --> 00:33:53.967
WHICH MANY OF THE OTHER
CHRISTIAN MYSTICS AND SAINTS

00:33:54.067 --> 00:33:58.233
WHO WERE CLOSE TO
GOD WOULD TELL US

00:33:58.333 --> 00:34:00.500
THAT IT IS WORTHWHILE.


00:34:00.600 --> 00:34:02.267
WHATEVER YOU'RE GOING
THROUGH RIGHT NOW

00:34:02.367 --> 00:34:04.067
WHICH MAY SEEM OVERWHELMING,


00:34:04.167 --> 00:34:06.100
WHICH MAY SEEM LIKE TOO
MUCH TO HANDLE,

00:34:06.200 --> 00:34:07.400
NUMBER ONE, GOD WILL
GIVE YOU

00:34:07.500 --> 00:34:09.000
THE GRACE TO DO IT.


00:34:09.100 --> 00:34:10.600
AND NUMBER TWO, THIS IS
PREPARING YOU

00:34:10.700 --> 00:34:12.433
FOR AN ETERNAL
WEIGHT OF GLORY

00:34:12.533 --> 00:34:14.834
THAT IS BEYOND ANYTHING
THAT YOU CAN IMAGINE,

00:34:14.934 --> 00:34:17.467
AND THAT'S WHERE OUR
ULTIMATE HOPE LIES.

00:34:17.567 --> 00:34:19.100
>> AND ALSO WHAT
CAME TO ME WAS

00:34:19.200 --> 00:34:22.500
HOW EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US
IS STRATEGICALLY PUT

00:34:22.600 --> 00:34:23.866
WHERE WE ARE FOR A REASON,


00:34:23.966 --> 00:34:26.367
AND GOD GIFTS US
WITH TALENTS AND ABILITIES.

00:34:26.467 --> 00:34:29.300
AND SO GOD GAVE YOU
THE INTELLIGENCE

00:34:29.400 --> 00:34:32.766
THAT YOU HAVE AND THE
ABILITY TO PRACTICE MEDICINE,

00:34:32.866 --> 00:34:34.334
AND HE PUT YOU IN THIS
FIELD AND YOU HAD

00:34:34.434 --> 00:34:37.100
A DECISION EITHER
TO COMPLY AND GO WITH

00:34:37.200 --> 00:34:38.900
KIND OF LIKE THE WAY
EVERYONE ELSE WAS GOING,

00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:39.966
OR TAKE A STAND.


00:34:40.066 --> 00:34:41.734
AND IT'S SO IMPORTANT
THAT EVEN THOUGH

00:34:41.834 --> 00:34:43.000
WE MIGHT SUFFER,


00:34:43.100 --> 00:34:45.533
TO BE OBEDIENT AND TO BE
STEWARDING THE GIFTS

00:34:45.633 --> 00:34:47.800
THAT GOD GIVES US IN THE
SPHERES OF INFLUENCE,

00:34:47.900 --> 00:34:49.533
IN THE PLACES THAT WE'RE
CALLED TO BE,

00:34:49.633 --> 00:34:52.600
AND TO USE OUR VOICE
TO ADVOCATE.

00:34:52.700 --> 00:34:54.900
AND LIKE GOD SAYS,
THE CHURCH

00:34:55.000 --> 00:34:56.366
TO BE SALT AND LIGHT
IN THE WORLD,

00:34:56.466 --> 00:34:58.700
NOT TO HIDE UNDER THAT BASKET,


00:34:58.800 --> 00:35:00.133
BUT TO SHINE THE
LIGHT OF CHRIST,

00:35:00.233 --> 00:35:02.567
AND TO NOT COWER
UNDERNEATH THE AGENDAS

00:35:02.667 --> 00:35:06.100
OF THE WORLD, BUT TO STAND
FIRM IN CHRIST.

00:35:06.200 --> 00:35:08.600
AND THE CHURCH IS THE MORAL
AUTHORITY IN THE EARTH.

00:35:08.700 --> 00:35:12.033
YOU KNOW, JESUS GAVE THE
HIS AUTHORITY TO THE CHURCH

00:35:12.133 --> 00:35:14.134
AND HE'S CALLED US
TO BE THAT SALT AND LIGHT.

00:35:14.234 --> 00:35:16.000
AND SO WHEN WE STAND
BEFORE CHRIST,

00:35:16.100 --> 00:35:18.067
WE'RE GOING TO GIVE
AN ACCOUNT OF OUR LIFE.

00:35:18.167 --> 00:35:19.667
AND I WANT TO
BE ABLE TO SAY

00:35:19.767 --> 00:35:21.800
THE SPHERES OF INFLUENCE
YOU GAVE ME,

00:35:21.900 --> 00:35:24.267
THE GIFTS YOU GAVE ME,
I STEWARDED

00:35:24.367 --> 00:35:25.333
AND I WAS OBEDIENT.


00:35:25.433 --> 00:35:26.934
EVEN IN THE TIME OF
SUFFERING AND HARDSHIP,

00:35:27.034 --> 00:35:30.167
I STOOD FIRM FOR YOU,
FOR YOUR KINGDOM,

00:35:30.267 --> 00:35:31.700
AND FOR YOUR CHURCH.


00:35:31.800 --> 00:35:34.233
>> AND OUR
LORD WAS CLEAR ALSO,

00:35:34.333 --> 00:35:36.100
I MEAN THE GOSPEL
TURNS UPSIDE-DOWN

00:35:36.200 --> 00:35:39.633
MANY OF OUR HUMAN NOTIONS
OF WHAT SUCCESS MEANS,

00:35:39.733 --> 00:35:41.333
OF WHAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT.


00:35:41.433 --> 00:35:42.767
YOU KNOW, JESUS WASN'T KIDDING


00:35:42.867 --> 00:35:44.667
WHEN HE SAID THE LAST
WILL BE FIRST

00:35:44.767 --> 00:35:46.700
AND THE FIRST WILL BE LAST.


00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:48.666
SO, YOU KNOW, MANY PEOPLE
IN THE AUDIENCE MAY BE THINKING

00:35:48.766 --> 00:35:51.200
WELL, YOU KNOW, SOMEONE WHO
HAS A MICROPHONE

00:35:51.300 --> 00:35:53.033
AND A PODCAST AND AN INFLUENCE


00:35:53.133 --> 00:35:55.033
LIKE REBECCA AND
HER GUESTS, YOU KNOW,

00:35:55.133 --> 00:35:57.200
THEY HAVE THE ABILITY
TO TALK ABOUT THESE THINGS

00:35:57.300 --> 00:35:59.867
AND TO SPREAD
THE GOSPEL AND TO, YOU KNOW,

00:35:59.967 --> 00:36:02.400
DEAL WITH AND CONTEND WITH
THE PROBLEMS OF THE WORLD.

00:36:02.500 --> 00:36:03.567
BUT, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT --


00:36:03.667 --> 00:36:06.033
I'M NOT DIRECTOR AT THE
NIH, OR I'M NOT

00:36:06.133 --> 00:36:07.233
A THIS OR A THAT.


00:36:07.333 --> 00:36:08.967
SO WHAT CAN I DO?


00:36:09.067 --> 00:36:10.700
AND I THINK IT'S
VERY IMPORTANT

00:36:10.800 --> 00:36:13.400
YOU KNOW, FOR ALL PEOPLE
TO REALIZE AND ESPECIALLY

00:36:13.500 --> 00:36:15.366
ALL BAPTIZED CHRISTIANS
TO REALIZE,

00:36:15.466 --> 00:36:18.666
ALL OF US ARE PART OF
CHRIST'S MYSTICAL BODY.

00:36:18.766 --> 00:36:20.100
ALL OF US ARE PART
OF THE CHURCH.

00:36:20.200 --> 00:36:23.167
ALL OF US HAVE A
ROLE TO EVANGELIZE.

00:36:23.267 --> 00:36:26.333
ALL OF US HAVE A MISSION THAT
HAS BEEN GIVEN TO GOD --

00:36:26.433 --> 00:36:28.900
GIVEN TO US BY GOD,
THAT NO ONE ELSE CAN DO.

00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:30.567
AND IF WE FAIL TO DO IT,


00:36:30.667 --> 00:36:32.133
IT'S NOT GOING TO BE DONE.


00:36:32.233 --> 00:36:33.400
AND THAT MISSION MAY NOT BE


00:36:33.500 --> 00:36:34.666
GOING OFF TO
A FOREIGN LAND.

00:36:34.766 --> 00:36:37.667
GOD CALLS SOME PEOPLE TO
DO THAT, BUT IT MAY BE

00:36:37.767 --> 00:36:39.600
JUST BEING SALT AND LIGHT
AND LEAVEN

00:36:39.700 --> 00:36:42.867
RIGHT WHERE YOU ARE IN
YOUR ORDINARY WORK.

00:36:42.967 --> 00:36:45.800
YOU'RE AN UBER DRIVER, YOU
ENCOUNTER MANY PEOPLE

00:36:45.900 --> 00:36:48.433
DURING THE DAY THAT YOU
CAN HAVE CONVERSATIONS WITH.

00:36:48.533 --> 00:36:51.900
AND, YOU KNOW, WITH NATURALNESS
AND WITH FRIENDLINESS,

00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:53.267
THERE MAY BE
OPPORTUNITIES THERE,

00:36:53.367 --> 00:36:55.600
ESPECIALLY IF YOU PRAY FOR
EVERY PERSON THAT SITS

00:36:55.700 --> 00:36:58.233
IN THE BACK SEAT
OF YOUR UBER CAR.

00:36:58.333 --> 00:36:59.500
PRAY FOR THEM BEFORE
THEY GET IN,

00:36:59.600 --> 00:37:01.367
PRAY FOR THEM
AFTER THEY LEAVE.

00:37:01.467 --> 00:37:03.333
YOU'LL SEE THAT THE HOLY
SPIRIT OPENS DOORS

00:37:03.433 --> 00:37:04.666
TO HAVE CONVERSATIONS
WITH THEM,

00:37:04.766 --> 00:37:07.033
TO SHARE YOUR FAITH
WITH THEM IN A WAY

00:37:07.133 --> 00:37:09.666
THAT'S NOT PREACHY OR, YOU
KNOW, THUMPING ON YOUR BIBLE

00:37:09.766 --> 00:37:12.734
OR WHATEVER, BUT IN ANY
PROFESSIONAL CONTEXT.

00:37:12.834 --> 00:37:15.033
JUST THROUGH YOUR
FAMILIAL RELATIONSHIPS,

00:37:15.133 --> 00:37:17.867
THROUGH YOUR FRIENDSHIPS,
THROUGH YOUR RELATIONSHIPS

00:37:17.967 --> 00:37:19.333
WITH YOUR
COLLEAGUES AT WORK,

00:37:19.433 --> 00:37:22.100
TRYING TO DO YOUR WORK
WELL ON A HUMAN LEVEL

00:37:22.200 --> 00:37:24.600
SO THAT YOU HAVE SOMETHING
GOOD TO OFFER TO GOD.

00:37:24.700 --> 00:37:29.300
DOING IT WITH HONESTY
AND INTEGRITY.

00:37:29.400 --> 00:37:32.233
THIS HAS ENORMOUS
INFLUENCE ON THE PEOPLE

00:37:32.333 --> 00:37:33.334
AROUND YOU.


00:37:33.434 --> 00:37:35.866
AND, AGAIN, IF THE LAST
SHALL BE FIRST

00:37:35.966 --> 00:37:38.666
THE MOST IMPORTANT PERSON
AT YOUR CHURCH

00:37:38.766 --> 00:37:40.467
MAY NOT BE THE PERSON
WHO'S GETTING UP

00:37:40.567 --> 00:37:42.333
AND PREACHING ON SUNDAYS,


00:37:42.433 --> 00:37:44.367
OR RUNNING SOME BIG
MINISTRY THAT LOOKS LIKE

00:37:44.467 --> 00:37:45.833
IT'S IMPACTING
THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE.

00:37:45.933 --> 00:37:48.567
I'M SURE THAT WORK IS
IMPORTANT, BUT MAYBE

00:37:48.667 --> 00:37:52.567
IT'S THE COGNITIVELY
DISABLED PERSON

00:37:52.667 --> 00:37:55.533
WHO'S BROUGHT IN
ON A WHEELCHAIR

00:37:55.633 --> 00:37:57.433
AND WHO DOESN'T
SING VERY WELL

00:37:57.533 --> 00:38:00.300
BECAUSE OF THEIR
IMPAIRMENTS, BUT WHO IS

00:38:00.400 --> 00:38:03.433
ACTUALLY PRAYING MORE
DEEPLY AND WITH MORE SINCERITY

00:38:03.533 --> 00:38:05.933
AND CLOSER TO CHRIST.


00:38:06.033 --> 00:38:08.767
AGAIN, THE CLOSER TO THE
SUFFERING CHRIST.

00:38:08.867 --> 00:38:11.767
CLOSER TO CHRIST IN HIS
WEAKNESS ON THE CROSS.

00:38:11.867 --> 00:38:13.367
THAN ANY OTHER MEMBER OF
THE CHURCH.

00:38:13.467 --> 00:38:16.867
AND IN HEAVEN WE'RE GOING
TO BE SURPRISED, RIGHT,

00:38:16.967 --> 00:38:18.533
THAT THE PERSON WITH THE
MICROPHONE IS

00:38:18.633 --> 00:38:22.800
MAYBE, YOU KNOW,
ENJOYING GOD'S GLORY,

00:38:22.900 --> 00:38:25.200
BUT PERHAPS A LITTLE LESS
GLORY THAN THE PERSON

00:38:25.300 --> 00:38:29.400
WHO IN THIS LIFE HAS
NOT BEEN GLORIFIED.

00:38:29.500 --> 00:38:33.300
SO I THINK IF YOU READ
THE GOSPELS CAREFULLY,

00:38:33.400 --> 00:38:36.333
YOU SEE THAT OUR OWN HUMAN
CALCULATIONS ARE

00:38:36.433 --> 00:38:38.633
VERY OFTEN TOTALLY BACKWARDS.


00:38:38.733 --> 00:38:42.300
AND THE PEOPLE THAT THE WORLD
IGNORES AND DISCARDS

00:38:42.400 --> 00:38:45.966
AND SEES AS SOMEHOW
LESS THAN, IN GOD'S EYES,

00:38:46.066 --> 00:38:50.667
MAYBE HAVE THE HIGHEST
PLACE IN HIS KINGDOM.

00:38:50.767 --> 00:38:54.167
>> IT'S SO TRUE, THE WAY
THAT GOD'S KINGDOM

00:38:54.267 --> 00:38:55.834
IS SO DIFFERENT
FROM THIS WORLD.

00:38:55.934 --> 00:38:57.900
AND I THINK THAT'S
SUCH A GREAT WORD

00:38:58.000 --> 00:39:00.900
TO SHARE WITH OUR VIEWERS,
THAT FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE,

00:39:01.000 --> 00:39:02.833
YOU MIGHT SEE YOUR LIFE
AND YOU MIGHT NOT SEE

00:39:02.933 --> 00:39:04.300
THE VALUE IN WHAT
YOU'RE DOING,

00:39:04.400 --> 00:39:06.567
BUT IF YOU WOULD
JUST ASK GOD,

00:39:06.667 --> 00:39:09.000
HOW DO I STEWARD
WHAT YOU'VE GIVEN ME WELL.

00:39:09.100 --> 00:39:10.300
AND IF YOU WOULD
JUST ASK TO SEE THINGS

00:39:10.400 --> 00:39:11.466
FROM HIS PERSPECTIVE,


00:39:11.566 --> 00:39:12.567
YOU WOULD REALIZE THAT
WHAT YOU'RE DOING

00:39:12.667 --> 00:39:14.434
IS SO IMPORTANT.


00:39:14.534 --> 00:39:16.000
THAT THE STAY-AT-HOME MOMS


00:39:16.100 --> 00:39:17.700
OR THE FATHERS
LOVING THEIR CHILDREN,

00:39:17.800 --> 00:39:19.434
THAT'S SOME OF THE
GREATEST WORK YOU CAN DO.

00:39:19.534 --> 00:39:21.900
THE WORLD MIGHT
NOT APPLAUD IT,

00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:24.667
BUT IN THE EYES OF GOD,
YOU KNOW, THIS KIND OF WORK

00:39:24.767 --> 00:39:25.767
IS SO IMPORTANT.


00:39:25.867 --> 00:39:27.667
AND THAT ANYTHING YOU DO,


00:39:27.767 --> 00:39:29.967
YOU CAN HAVE AN IMPACT
ON THE PEOPLE AROUND YOU.

00:39:30.067 --> 00:39:33.200
AND WHAT I LOVED, WHEN YOU
TALKED ABOUT THE DISCIPLES

00:39:33.300 --> 00:39:34.600
AND HOW WHEN
JESUS DIED, I MEAN,

00:39:34.700 --> 00:39:38.200
THEY DID ALL SCATTER
AND THEY ALL RAN

00:39:38.300 --> 00:39:39.367
EXCEPT FOR ONE.


00:39:39.467 --> 00:39:42.633
AND YET WHAT HAPPENS
TO THESE DISCIPLES,

00:39:42.733 --> 00:39:43.800
WHAT CHANGES THEM?


00:39:43.900 --> 00:39:45.600
YOU KNOW, JESUS COMES BACK


00:39:45.700 --> 00:39:47.600
AND HE VISITS THEM
AFTER HE RESURRECTS,

00:39:47.700 --> 00:39:48.734
AND HE TELLS THEM


00:39:48.834 --> 00:39:50.033
I HAVE TO LEAVE, BUT I
HAVE TO SEND

00:39:50.133 --> 00:39:51.767
MY HOLY SPIRIT TO YOU.


00:39:51.867 --> 00:39:54.900
AND WE SEE THE
DISCIPLES GET BAPTIZED

00:39:55.000 --> 00:39:56.000
IN THE HOLY SPIRIT.


00:39:56.100 --> 00:39:57.067
AND YOU SEE THIS
TRANSFORMATION

00:39:57.167 --> 00:39:58.800
RIGHT THEN AND
THERE AT PENTECOST.

00:39:58.900 --> 00:40:01.700
YOU SEE PETER, WHO HAD
BEEN RESTORED AFTER

00:40:01.800 --> 00:40:03.000
DENYING CHRIST THREE TIMES,


00:40:03.100 --> 00:40:04.333
AND HE STANDS UP AND PREACHES


00:40:04.433 --> 00:40:05.867
IN FRONT OF THOUSANDS
OF PEOPLE.

00:40:05.967 --> 00:40:08.800
AND YOU SEE THESE BOLD
DISCIPLES, YOU KNOW.

00:40:08.900 --> 00:40:10.934
AND THEN WE FIND OUT THAT
THEY ALL, EXCEPT FOR ONE,

00:40:11.034 --> 00:40:13.400
WERE MARTYRED
IN SOME FASHION.

00:40:13.500 --> 00:40:15.333
AND THEY WENT ALL
OVER THE WORLD

00:40:15.433 --> 00:40:16.667
AND PREACHED THE GOSPEL.


00:40:16.767 --> 00:40:18.600
AND SO IT'S NOT
SOMETHING THAT THEY DID

00:40:18.700 --> 00:40:19.867
IN THEIR OWN STRENGTH.


00:40:19.967 --> 00:40:21.434
BUT IT WAS, RATHER, THEY
ALLOWED THE HOLY SPIRIT

00:40:21.534 --> 00:40:22.667
TO FILL THEM AND
THEY EMBRACED

00:40:22.767 --> 00:40:24.100
THE FULLNESS OF CHRIST


00:40:24.200 --> 00:40:25.200
AND THEY
SURRENDERED THEIR LIVES

00:40:25.300 --> 00:40:27.366
AND THEY SAID, WHATEVER
YOU WOULD HAVE ME DO,

00:40:27.466 --> 00:40:28.433
I WOULD DO.


00:40:28.533 --> 00:40:30.300
AND IT'S IN THAT GRACE
THAT OUR LORD GIVES US

00:40:30.400 --> 00:40:32.034
THAT WE'RE ABLE TO
FULFILL THE CALLING.

00:40:32.134 --> 00:40:33.167
>> THAT'S RIGHT.


00:40:33.267 --> 00:40:34.467
AND I THINK THE THING THAT
PREPARED THEM FOR THAT

00:40:34.567 --> 00:40:37.466
WAS PRECISELY THAT --
THE HUMILIATION, PERHAPS.

00:40:37.566 --> 00:40:40.533
THEY THEY HAD TO LEARN
HOW TO BECOME NOTHING,

00:40:40.633 --> 00:40:41.900
HOW TO BE,
HOW TO BE EMPTY.

00:40:42.000 --> 00:40:43.133
>> THAT'S TRUE.


00:40:43.233 --> 00:40:45.200
>> SO THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT
COULD FILL THEM, RIGHT?

00:40:45.300 --> 00:40:46.600
SO BEFORE CHRIST'S DEATH,


00:40:46.700 --> 00:40:47.933
WHAT ARE THEY ARGUING ABOUT?


00:40:48.033 --> 00:40:50.400
FIRST OF ALL, LIKE IF
WE'RE IN CHARGE HERE

00:40:50.500 --> 00:40:52.000
AND WE WANT TO CREATE A
WORLDWIDE MOVEMENT

00:40:52.100 --> 00:40:54.434
AND A CHURCH THAT'S GOING TO
LAST UNTIL THE END OF TIME,

00:40:54.534 --> 00:40:56.300
THESE ARE PROBABLY
NOT THE 12 GUYS

00:40:56.400 --> 00:40:58.267
THAT I WOULD
HAVE PICKED, RIGHT?

00:40:58.367 --> 00:41:00.334
THEY'RE NOT LIKE THE
SENATOR THAT, YOU KNOW,

00:41:00.434 --> 00:41:02.100
LET'S GET A ROMAN SENATOR
WHO'S REALLY POWERFUL.

00:41:02.200 --> 00:41:04.200
LET'S GET A CEO.


00:41:04.300 --> 00:41:07.034
LET'S GET REALLY WEALTHY
AND EDUCATED PEOPLE

00:41:07.134 --> 00:41:08.700
WHO ARE, YOU KNOW, IN
CHARGE OF THINGS.

00:41:08.800 --> 00:41:11.434
NO, THESE WERE POOR
AND HUMBLE FISHERMEN.

00:41:11.534 --> 00:41:12.267
>> YEAH.


00:41:12.367 --> 00:41:13.767
>> THEY WERE, YOU KNOW,


00:41:13.867 --> 00:41:16.633
A TAX COLLECTOR
DESPISED BY THE JEWS

00:41:16.733 --> 00:41:18.666
BECAUSE HE WAS WORKING FOR
THE ENEMY AND SO FORTH.

00:41:18.766 --> 00:41:21.200
AND SO THIS RAGTAG
BUNCH OF GUYS,

00:41:21.300 --> 00:41:23.900
AND EVEN THEN THEY, YOU
KNOW, THEY WERE

00:41:24.000 --> 00:41:26.033
ARROGANT AND PROUD AND
ARGUING ABOUT WHO WAS

00:41:26.133 --> 00:41:27.834
GOING TO BE GREATEST IN
THE KINGDOM AND HAVING

00:41:27.934 --> 00:41:30.866
THESE JUST RIDICULOUS
SQUABBLES, RIGHT?

00:41:30.966 --> 00:41:32.534
WELL, WE LAUGH AND SAY THEY'RE
RIDICULOUS BECAUSE WE KNOW

00:41:32.634 --> 00:41:34.000
THE END OF THE STORY, BUT
WE PROBABLY WOULD HAVE

00:41:34.100 --> 00:41:36.133
DONE THE SAME THING, RIGHT?


00:41:36.233 --> 00:41:37.733
>> MM-HMMM.


00:41:37.833 --> 00:41:39.434
>> AND SO THEY THEY
HAD TO BE HUMBLED

00:41:39.534 --> 00:41:40.567
AND HUMILIATED.


00:41:40.667 --> 00:41:43.400
YOU KNOW, ST. PETER DENYING
OUR LORD THREE TIMES

00:41:43.500 --> 00:41:45.667
AND THEN GOING OUT AND WEEPING
BITTERLY BECAUSE HE KNEW

00:41:45.767 --> 00:41:48.567
HIS OWN WEAKNESS AND HIS
OWN LACK OF FIDELITY

00:41:48.667 --> 00:41:50.300
AND HIS OWN SINFULNESS.


00:41:50.400 --> 00:41:52.500
AND THEN CHRIST
AND THAT BEAUTIFUL

00:41:52.600 --> 00:41:54.134
RESURRECTION SCENE IN
THE GOSPEL OF JOHN,

00:41:54.234 --> 00:41:56.600
SITTING WITH HIM ON THE
SHORE OF THE BEACH

00:41:56.700 --> 00:41:59.233
AFTER THE MIRACULOUS
CATCH OF FISH

00:41:59.333 --> 00:42:01.167
AND THEN ASKING HIM
THREE TIMES,

00:42:01.267 --> 00:42:02.967
SIMON, SON OF JOHN,
DO YOU LOVE ME?

00:42:03.067 --> 00:42:03.934
YES, LORD.


00:42:04.034 --> 00:42:06.400
YOU KNOW THAT I LOVE YOU,
RESTORING HIM

00:42:06.500 --> 00:42:08.300
TO THAT FRIENDSHIP
IS THREEFOLD.

00:42:08.400 --> 00:42:12.700
DENIAL WAS CORRECTED
AND RESTORED

00:42:12.800 --> 00:42:15.767
BY THIS THREEFOLD AFFIRMATION
OF HIS LOVE FOR CHRIST.

00:42:15.867 --> 00:42:17.266
AND SO I THINK IT'S THE
SAME FOR US,

00:42:17.366 --> 00:42:20.167
THAT WE NEED TO BEGIN FROM
A POSITION OF HUMILITY,

00:42:20.267 --> 00:42:21.367
A POSITION OF EMPTINESS,


00:42:21.467 --> 00:42:24.633
A RECOGNITION THAT,
YOU KNOW, ANYTHING GOOD

00:42:24.733 --> 00:42:27.066
I HAVE TO OFFER TO GOD


00:42:27.166 --> 00:42:29.000
IS SOMETHING THAT GOD
ALREADY GAVE ME.

00:42:29.100 --> 00:42:30.733
WHETHER THAT'S GIFTS ON THE
NATURAL LEVEL OF

00:42:30.833 --> 00:42:32.534
JUST MY TALENTS AND ABILITIES,


00:42:32.634 --> 00:42:35.300
OR THE GRACE THAT HE GAVE ME
TO ALLOW ME TO DO THIS THING.

00:42:35.400 --> 00:42:37.600
THE ONLY THING THAT
I HAVE THAT'S TRULY MY OWN

00:42:37.700 --> 00:42:40.200
TO GIVE TO GOD THAT DIDN'T
FIRST COME FROM HIM,

00:42:40.300 --> 00:42:43.166
THE ONLY THING THAT'S TRULY
MY OWN IS MY SIN, RIGHT?

00:42:43.266 --> 00:42:44.367
THAT'S ULTIMATELY
ALL THAT I HAVE

00:42:44.467 --> 00:42:46.367
TO OFFER TO GOD IS MY SIN.


00:42:46.467 --> 00:42:49.466
SO THAT HUMBLE RECOGNITION
OF, YOU KNOW,

00:42:49.566 --> 00:42:51.334
MY OWN EMPTINESS
AND MY OWN SINFULNESS

00:42:51.434 --> 00:42:54.100
IS, I THINK, THE
PRECONDITION FOR

00:42:54.200 --> 00:42:56.167
RECEIVING THE HOLY SPIRIT.


00:42:56.267 --> 00:42:59.067
PRIDE IS THE
GREAT ENEMY HERE.

00:42:59.167 --> 00:43:02.333
AND, YOU KNOW, HAVING A
TV CAMERA POINTED AT YOU

00:43:02.433 --> 00:43:05.134
AND A MICROPHONE AND BRIGHT
LIGHTS AND SO FORTH

00:43:05.234 --> 00:43:06.434
IS AN INDUCEMENT TO THINK,


00:43:06.534 --> 00:43:07.434
HEY, MAYBE I'M IMPORTANT.


00:43:07.534 --> 00:43:09.967
MAYBE I HAVE SOMETHING
TO TELL THE WORLD.

00:43:10.067 --> 00:43:11.767
AND, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO
STEP BACK AND RECOGNIZE

00:43:11.867 --> 00:43:14.400
NO, ANYTHING GOOD
I HAVE TO SAY,

00:43:14.500 --> 00:43:15.900
ANY TRUTH I UTTERED,


00:43:16.000 --> 00:43:18.200
ULTIMATELY, FIRST,
COMES FROM GOD.

00:43:18.300 --> 00:43:20.366
AND HE GAVE ME AN
INTELLECT TO UNDERSTAND IT

00:43:20.466 --> 00:43:23.100
AND HE GAVE ME, YOU KNOW,
A WILL TO PURSUE,

00:43:23.200 --> 00:43:24.500
AND HE GAVE ME THE GRACE


00:43:24.600 --> 00:43:25.600
AND ALL THE OTHER
THINGS IN MY LIFE

00:43:25.700 --> 00:43:27.667
THAT HAVE GOTTEN ME
TO THIS POINT.

00:43:27.767 --> 00:43:30.233
THIS IS, YOU KNOW, NONE OF
THIS IS MY OWN DOING.

00:43:30.333 --> 00:43:32.533
AND I THINK THAT GOES,
THAT GOES FOR ALL OF US.

00:43:32.633 --> 00:43:35.967
THE STARTING POINT HAS TO
BE HUMILITY, A RECOGNITION

00:43:36.067 --> 00:43:37.967
OF OUR NOTHINGNESS
BEFORE GOD.

00:43:38.067 --> 00:43:40.033
AND THAT'S WHERE
THE HOLY SPIRIT

00:43:40.133 --> 00:43:41.966
CAN COME IN AND
FILL US WITH HIS GRACE

00:43:42.066 --> 00:43:44.700
AND ALLOW US TO DO THINGS
THAT, HUMANLY,

00:43:44.800 --> 00:43:46.766
OTHERWISE WOULD
BE IMPOSSIBLE.

00:43:46.866 --> 00:43:48.166
>> THAT'S SO GOOD.


00:43:48.266 --> 00:43:52.200
AND, YOU KNOW, SEGUEING
INTO THIS NEXT TOPIC,

00:43:52.300 --> 00:43:54.566
JUST THINKING ABOUT
HOW IMPORTANT

00:43:54.666 --> 00:43:56.634
HAVING A CHRISTIAN WORLDVIEW IS,


00:43:56.734 --> 00:43:57.834
HOW IMPORTANT ETHICS ARE,


00:43:57.934 --> 00:44:00.867
I REMEMBER STUDYING ETHICS
IN SCHOOL, AND HOW WE NEED

00:44:00.967 --> 00:44:03.967
TO HAVE AN ETHICAL WAY
OF HANDLING THINGS

00:44:04.067 --> 00:44:04.967
LIKE MEDICINE.


00:44:05.067 --> 00:44:07.166
AND I REMEMBER READING
THIS BOOK IN COLLEGE

00:44:07.266 --> 00:44:09.500
BY C.S. LEWIS CALLED,
<i>THE ABOLITION OF MAN.</i>

00:44:09.600 --> 00:44:11.833
AND AT THE END HE HAS
THIS WHOLE THING

00:44:11.933 --> 00:44:13.067
WHERE HE TALKS ABOUT SCIENCE.


00:44:13.167 --> 00:44:17.600
AND C.S. LEWIS BASICALLY
WARNS THAT SCIENCE

00:44:17.700 --> 00:44:20.200
IS PROBABLY GOING TO GO
INTO A DIRECTION

00:44:20.300 --> 00:44:22.467
THAT WOULD BE MORE
HARMFUL THAN GOOD;

00:44:22.567 --> 00:44:25.233
HOW SCIENCE HAS
THAT POTENTIAL.

00:44:25.333 --> 00:44:27.534
AND READING THAT WHOLE BOOK
IN THIS DAY AND AGE

00:44:27.634 --> 00:44:30.600
WAS JUST MINDBLOWING, SEEING THE
THINGS THAT HE TALKED ABOUT

00:44:30.700 --> 00:44:32.200
PLAY OUT IN REAL TIME.


00:44:32.300 --> 00:44:34.633
AND ALL THAT BEING SAID,


00:44:34.733 --> 00:44:36.833
WE'RE NOW HAVING --
WE'RE IN THIS AREA

00:44:36.933 --> 00:44:40.466
WHERE WE HAVE
TRANSHUMANISM, AI,

00:44:40.566 --> 00:44:43.600
AND WE'RE SEEING SCIENCE
POTENTIALLY BEING USED

00:44:43.700 --> 00:44:47.700
FOR THINGS THAT GOD NEVER
INTENDED FOR US TO DO.

00:44:47.800 --> 00:44:49.900
AND WE'RE SEEING PEOPLE
BASICALLY PLAY GOD

00:44:50.000 --> 00:44:53.100
AND WE WERE NEVER
SUPPOSED TO PLAY GOD.

00:44:53.200 --> 00:44:55.600
SO CAN YOU TALK ABOUT
TRANSHUMANISM

00:44:55.700 --> 00:44:56.933
FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE?


00:44:57.033 --> 00:45:00.400
WHAT IS DRIVING IT
IN THIS DAY AND AGE?

00:45:00.500 --> 00:45:01.700
>> YEAH, LET ME SAY A WORD
FIRST ABOUT

00:45:01.800 --> 00:45:02.633
<i>THE ABOLITION OF MAN.</i>


00:45:02.733 --> 00:45:04.134
THANK YOU FOR
MENTIONING THAT BOOK.

00:45:04.234 --> 00:45:05.800
I REGARD THAT AS ONE OF
THE MOST IMPORTANT BOOKS

00:45:05.900 --> 00:45:07.934
OF THE 20TH CENTURY.


00:45:08.034 --> 00:45:09.134
IT'S A SHORT, LITTLE BOOK.


00:45:09.234 --> 00:45:10.967
IT'S FAIRLY ACCESSIBLE IF
YOU'RE NOT USED

00:45:11.067 --> 00:45:13.100
TO READING PHILOSOPHY
OR THEOLOGY.

00:45:13.200 --> 00:45:16.000
SO I COMMEND IT TO
OUR LISTENERS.

00:45:16.100 --> 00:45:17.200
AND YOU'RE
ABSOLUTELY RIGHT,

00:45:17.300 --> 00:45:19.866
C.S. LEWIS DEFENDS THERE
THE IDEA OF

00:45:19.966 --> 00:45:21.967
A FUNDAMENTAL MORALITY
THAT CAN BE FOUND

00:45:22.067 --> 00:45:23.400
ACROSS ALL CULTURES.


00:45:23.500 --> 00:45:26.933
OBVIOUSLY IT'S REINFORCED BY
CHRISTIAN REVELATION.

00:45:27.033 --> 00:45:29.700
AND IN THE LAST CHAPTER HE
TALKS ABOUT SOME OF THE DANGERS

00:45:29.800 --> 00:45:32.900
COMING DOWN THE PIKE WHERE
SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY

00:45:33.000 --> 00:45:35.900
IS POTENTIALLY
GOING TO BE USED TO TRY TO

00:45:36.000 --> 00:45:37.400
MAKE SUPER HUMANS.


00:45:37.500 --> 00:45:38.500
>> YEAH.


00:45:38.600 --> 00:45:40.134
>> AND HE DOESN'T USE
THE WORD TRANSHUMANISM,

00:45:40.234 --> 00:45:42.166
BUT HE KIND OF, HE KIND
OF GESTURES TOWARD

00:45:42.266 --> 00:45:43.800
THIS IDEOLOGY THAT'S DEVELOPING


00:45:43.900 --> 00:45:45.800
THAT NOW GOES UNDER THE
NAME OF TRANSHUMANISM,

00:45:45.900 --> 00:45:47.800
WHICH IS THE IDEA OF
TAKING HEALTHY PEOPLE

00:45:47.900 --> 00:45:49.133
AND USING SCIENCE
AND TECHNOLOGY,

00:45:49.233 --> 00:45:51.000
INCLUDING MEDICAL TECHNOLOGY,


00:45:51.100 --> 00:45:52.466
AND MAKING THEM BIGGER,
FASTER,

00:45:52.566 --> 00:45:54.767
STRONGER, SMARTER,
SORT OF SUPERHUMAN.

00:45:54.834 --> 00:45:57.466
NOT JUST USING SCIENCE
AND MEDICINE TO HEAL THE SICK,

00:45:57.566 --> 00:45:59.633
BUT TO MAKE WELL
PEOPLE QUOTE, UNQUOTE

00:45:59.733 --> 00:46:01.500
BETTER THAN WELL.


00:46:01.600 --> 00:46:04.300
AND LEWIS PROPOSES
IN THAT BOOK THAT

00:46:04.400 --> 00:46:06.700
THIS IS ACTUALLY GOING TO
GIVE SOME MEN CONTROL

00:46:06.800 --> 00:46:12.833
OVER OTHER MEN, UNPRECEDENTED
LEVELS OF CONTROL,

00:46:12.933 --> 00:46:16.067
USING SORT OF EUGENIC
GENE-EDITING TECHNIQUES,

00:46:16.167 --> 00:46:18.767
FOR EXAMPLE, TO TRY TO
CREATE A MASTER RACE

00:46:18.867 --> 00:46:21.466
ESSENTIALLY PUTS SOME
PEOPLE IN CHARGE OF

00:46:21.566 --> 00:46:24.533
WHO CAN REPRODUCE, WHAT KIND
OF PEOPLE CAN BE BORN,

00:46:24.633 --> 00:46:27.167
WHO NEEDS TO BE DISCARDED
BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT GOOD ENOUGH,

00:46:27.267 --> 00:46:29.334
BECAUSE THEY'RE DISABLED OR
THEY'RE JUST

00:46:29.434 --> 00:46:31.366
SIMPLY, YOU KNOW, NOT THE
RIGHT KIND OF PEOPLE

00:46:31.466 --> 00:46:34.666
OR DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT
SKIN COLOR OR WHATEVER.

00:46:34.766 --> 00:46:38.066
C.S. LEWIS WROTE, MANY
PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT

00:46:38.166 --> 00:46:42.667
HIS NARNIA BOOKS, BUT HE ALSO
WROTE A SPACE TRILOGY,

00:46:42.767 --> 00:46:44.333
THREE SCIENCE FICTION
BOOKS --

00:46:44.433 --> 00:46:45.300
>> I DIDN'T KNOW THIS.


00:46:45.400 --> 00:46:46.433
>> FOR GROWNUPS, YEAH.


00:46:46.533 --> 00:46:49.733
AND THE THIRD BOOK IN THAT
SPACE TRILOGY IS CALLED

00:46:49.833 --> 00:46:51.933
<i>THAT HIDEOUS STRENGTH.</i>


00:46:52.033 --> 00:46:54.333
AND HE ONCE SAID THAT
<i>THAT HIDEOUS STRENGTH</i>

00:46:54.433 --> 00:46:55.733
IS<i>THE ABOLITION OF MAN</i>


00:46:55.833 --> 00:46:58.167
IN FICTIONAL FORM.


00:46:58.267 --> 00:46:59.500
AND THE BOOK IS
BASICALLY ABOUT

00:46:59.600 --> 00:47:02.233
A GROUP OF SCIENTISTS THAT
TAKE OVER A UNIVERSITY TOWN

00:47:02.333 --> 00:47:05.300
IN ENGLAND, THINK
OXFORD OR CAMBRIDGE.

00:47:05.400 --> 00:47:08.333
AND THEY PULL AWAY ALL THE
BRAINPOWER FROM THE UNIVERSITY

00:47:08.433 --> 00:47:11.534
AND START THIS NEW
SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH INSTITUTE

00:47:11.634 --> 00:47:12.833
CALLED THE N-I-C-E,


00:47:12.933 --> 00:47:15.233
THE NATIONAL INSTITUTE FOR
COORDINATED EXPERIMENTS.

00:47:15.333 --> 00:47:16.866
AND NO ONE KNOWS QUITE WHAT
THEY'RE DOING THERE,

00:47:16.966 --> 00:47:20.700
BUT BASICALLY WHAT YOU FIND OUT
IN THE COURSE OF THE STORY

00:47:20.800 --> 00:47:24.700
IS THEY'RE THEY'RE TRYING TO
REVIVIFY THIS HUMAN HEAD

00:47:24.800 --> 00:47:26.634
OF A DECAPITATED CRIMINAL.


00:47:26.734 --> 00:47:29.166
AND LIKE BASICALLY TRYING TO
BRING IT TO LIFE AGAIN.

00:47:29.266 --> 00:47:31.733
AND THEY USE IT AS
A KIND OF ORACLE

00:47:31.833 --> 00:47:35.933
TO PROPHESY AND
TO TELL THE TRUTH

00:47:36.033 --> 00:47:38.700
AND TO START TO GUIDE AND
DIRECT THEIR ACTIONS.

00:47:38.800 --> 00:47:40.233
AND BASICALLY, TO CUT
A LONG STORY SHORT,

00:47:40.333 --> 00:47:42.033
AND SPOILER ALERT, AT THE
END OF THE BOOK,

00:47:42.133 --> 00:47:44.333
YOU REALIZE THESE
SCIENTISTS ARE NOT BEING

00:47:44.433 --> 00:47:46.600
CONTROLLED BY THE
PRINCIPLES OF SCIENCE.

00:47:46.700 --> 00:47:49.033
THEY'RE ACTUALLY BEING
CONTROLLED BY DEMONIC FORCES

00:47:49.133 --> 00:47:51.667
THAT ARE ACTING
THROUGH THIS WHOLE PROJECT

00:47:51.767 --> 00:47:54.433
THAT THEY'RE ENGAGED IN.


00:47:54.533 --> 00:47:55.434
SO ANYWAY,
THAT'S ANOTHER BOOK

00:47:55.534 --> 00:47:56.967
THAT PEOPLE SHOULD
READ IF THEY FIND

00:47:57.067 --> 00:47:59.234
<i>THE ABOLITION OF MAN
</i> SORT OF TOO PHILOSOPHICAL,

00:47:59.334 --> 00:48:00.600
READ THE NOVEL.


00:48:00.700 --> 00:48:03.300
IT JUST TELLS THE
SAME PRINCIPLES THROUGH

00:48:03.400 --> 00:48:05.200
THE MECHANISM OF
STORYTELLING.

00:48:05.300 --> 00:48:09.433
BUT THAT THAT BRINGS
US TO AI.

00:48:09.533 --> 00:48:11.600
AM I SUGGESTING THAT AI IS
CONTROLLED BY DEMONIC FORCES

00:48:11.700 --> 00:48:13.334
AND IT'S GOING TO LEAD US
DOWN A VERY DARK PATH,

00:48:13.434 --> 00:48:15.133
NO, NOT NECESSARILY.


00:48:15.233 --> 00:48:19.234
BUT I THINK THERE ARE
SOME DANGERS WITH AI.

00:48:19.334 --> 00:48:22.233
AND ONE OF THE DANGERS
THAT I SEE WITH AI

00:48:22.333 --> 00:48:26.433
IS BASICALLY RATHER THAN
USING AI AS A TOOL,

00:48:26.533 --> 00:48:28.500
AND I THINK THERE ARE
GOOD AND APPROPRIATE

00:48:28.600 --> 00:48:30.800
AND BENEFICIAL USES OF AI.


00:48:30.900 --> 00:48:33.067
I USE GROK FOR SOME
OF MY RESEARCH.

00:48:33.167 --> 00:48:36.000
I DON'T LET IT WRITE MY
BOOKS OR MY ARTICLES FOR ME,

00:48:36.100 --> 00:48:37.567
BUT I USE IT TO
TRACK DOWN CITATIONS

00:48:37.667 --> 00:48:39.800
AND, YOU KNOW, SO
ON AND SO FORTH.

00:48:39.900 --> 00:48:41.833
SO THERE ARE VERY
USEFUL THINGS THAT

00:48:41.933 --> 00:48:43.933
THIS TECHNOLOGY CAN DO.


00:48:44.033 --> 00:48:47.633
BUT IF WE SHIFT FROM
TREATING IT LIKE A TOOL

00:48:47.733 --> 00:48:51.833
TO TREATING IT LIKE AN IDOL
OR AN ORACLE OF TRUTH,

00:48:51.933 --> 00:48:53.666
I THINK THAT'S
VERY DANGEROUS.

00:48:53.766 --> 00:48:55.867
SO THIS BIBLICAL
CONCEPT OF AN IDOL

00:48:55.967 --> 00:48:58.067
WHICH RUNS THROUGHOUT
THE OLD TESTAMENT,

00:48:58.167 --> 00:48:59.300
WHAT IS AN IDOL?


00:48:59.400 --> 00:49:02.200
AN IDOL IS SOMETHING
THAT WE CREATE

00:49:02.300 --> 00:49:03.434
WITH OUR OWN HANDS.


00:49:03.534 --> 00:49:05.267
IT'S THE WORK
OF OUR HANDS.

00:49:05.367 --> 00:49:09.366
IT'S AN ARTIFACT OR
MAYBE A TOOL THAT WE THEN

00:49:09.466 --> 00:49:13.267
ELEVATE TO THE STATUS
OF SOMETHING ABOVE US.

00:49:13.367 --> 00:49:15.333
SOMETHING THAT'S GOING
TO GIVE US ANSWERS.

00:49:15.433 --> 00:49:19.267
SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO TELL
US WHAT TO DO OR HOW TO LIVE.

00:49:19.367 --> 00:49:21.934
SOMETHING THAT'S EVEN GOING TO
SORT OF REDEEM US

00:49:22.034 --> 00:49:24.367
AND SOLVE ALL OF
OUR PROBLEMS FOR US.

00:49:24.467 --> 00:49:26.834
AND WE BEGIN TO
WORSHIP THIS THING

00:49:26.934 --> 00:49:28.933
THAT IS THE WORK
OF OUR OWN HANDS

00:49:29.033 --> 00:49:30.833
AS THOUGH IT'S A GOD.


00:49:30.933 --> 00:49:33.766
AND THE PROBLEM WITH
AN IDOL IS

00:49:33.866 --> 00:49:36.433
IT ALWAYS COMES BACK TO BITE
US IN THE END, RIGHT?

00:49:36.533 --> 00:49:38.767
IT ENDS UP UNDERMINING
OUR HUMANITY.

00:49:38.867 --> 00:49:41.600
IT ENDS UP UNDERMINING
HUMAN SOCIETY

00:49:41.700 --> 00:49:43.833
AND HUMAN FLOURISHING AND
LEADING US AWAY

00:49:43.933 --> 00:49:45.800
FROM TRUTH
AND GOODNESS AND BEAUTY,

00:49:45.900 --> 00:49:48.667
AND ULTIMATELY
AWAY FROM GOD.

00:49:48.767 --> 00:49:50.666
WHAT DOES THIS HAVE
TO DO WITH AI?

00:49:50.766 --> 00:49:55.734
SO, I HAVE PATIENTS WHO HAVE
GONE TO SOME OF THESE,

00:49:55.834 --> 00:49:59.000
YOU KNOW, CHAT GPT AND OTHER
LARGE LANGUAGE MODEL AI'S

00:49:59.100 --> 00:50:01.634
AND ASK QUESTIONS LIKE,
WHAT ARE THE COMMON SIDE EFFECTS

00:50:01.734 --> 00:50:03.967
OF THIS ANTIDEPRESSANT
MEDICATION?

00:50:04.067 --> 00:50:06.633
AND, YOU KNOW,
ASSUMING THAT THE CHAT GPT

00:50:06.733 --> 00:50:10.533
OR GROK OR WHATEVER IS
DRAWING ON REPUTABLE SOURCES

00:50:10.633 --> 00:50:11.567
OF ACCURATE INFORMATION,


00:50:11.667 --> 00:50:14.533
THAT MIGHT BE A WAY TO
DISTILL INFORMATION

00:50:14.633 --> 00:50:17.333
ABOUT THE SIDE EFFECTS OF
THIS MEDICATION.

00:50:17.433 --> 00:50:19.234
AND, YOU KNOW, AS LONG AS THEY
CONSULT WITH THEIR DOCTOR,

00:50:19.334 --> 00:50:20.800
AND KIND OF RUN IT
BY THEM, I DON'T THINK

00:50:20.900 --> 00:50:22.333
THAT'S A BAD USE OF AI.


00:50:22.433 --> 00:50:24.967
WHAT WORRIES ME IS
WHEN I HAVE OTHER PATIENTS

00:50:25.067 --> 00:50:29.400
WHO WILL GO TO CHAT GPT


00:50:29.500 --> 00:50:32.133
AND ASK, GIVEN MY
MEDICAL HISTORY

00:50:32.233 --> 00:50:35.333
SHOULD I TAKE THIS
ANTIDEPRESSANT MEDICATION?

00:50:35.433 --> 00:50:38.500
HELP ME TO MAKE THIS
IMPORTANT LIFE DECISION

00:50:38.600 --> 00:50:39.867
THAT REQUIRE, YOU KNOW,


00:50:39.967 --> 00:50:42.667
SHOULD REQUIRE CONSULTATION
WITH A PHYSICIAN.

00:50:42.767 --> 00:50:44.266
AND, YOU KNOW, IMPORTANT
WEIGHING OF RISKS AND BENEFITS,

00:50:44.366 --> 00:50:46.200
AND FREE AND INFORMED CONSENT
WHICH WE

00:50:46.300 --> 00:50:48.100
TALKED ABOUT EARLIER IN
THE SHOW.

00:50:48.200 --> 00:50:51.533
SO TREATING THIS MACHINE
ESSENTIALLY AS THOUGH

00:50:51.633 --> 00:50:54.166
IT'S AN ORACLE OR, YOU KNOW,


00:50:54.266 --> 00:50:57.600
A SOURCE OF
LIFE WISDOM FOR ME,

00:50:57.700 --> 00:50:59.167
I THINK IS POTENTIALLY
VERY DANGEROUS.

00:50:59.267 --> 00:51:01.866
BECAUSE WHOEVER'S CONTROLLING
THESE ALGORITHMS,

00:51:01.966 --> 00:51:04.400
IF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO THESE
THINGS FOR WISDOM

00:51:04.500 --> 00:51:06.634
AND DIRECTION AND
HOW TO LIVE MY LIFE,

00:51:06.734 --> 00:51:09.833
WELL, ULTIMATELY, WHOEVER'S
PROGRAMMING THESE THINGS

00:51:09.933 --> 00:51:12.167
IS GOING TO BE ABLE TO
TWEAK THE ALGORITHMS

00:51:12.267 --> 00:51:14.634
IN A WAY TO DIRECT
PEOPLE'S BEHAVIOR

00:51:14.734 --> 00:51:16.166
IN PARTICULAR DIRECTIONS.


00:51:16.266 --> 00:51:18.300
AGAIN, C.S. LEWIS' CONCEPT IN


00:51:18.400 --> 00:51:20.500
<i>THE ABOLITION OF MAN,
</i> THIS TECHNOLOGY,

00:51:20.600 --> 00:51:22.633
YOU KNOW, WILL NOT JUST BE
MAN'S POWER OVER NATURE,

00:51:22.733 --> 00:51:27.267
BUT SOME MEN'S POWER OVER
OTHER MEN, RIGHT.

00:51:27.367 --> 00:51:31.233
AND SO I THINK THERE'S
A DANGER IN GIVING OVER

00:51:31.333 --> 00:51:33.467
WHAT SHOULD BE OURS TO RETAIN,


00:51:33.567 --> 00:51:36.600
WHICH IS, YOU KNOW,
OUR GOD-GIVEN INTELLECT

00:51:36.700 --> 00:51:40.900
AND FREE WILL, RIGHT,
THAT WHICH HE GAVE US

00:51:41.000 --> 00:51:43.633
THAT PERMITS US TO, IN
HIS IMAGE AND LIKENESS,

00:51:43.733 --> 00:51:45.367
TO KNOW AND LOVE HIM,


00:51:45.467 --> 00:51:48.600
TO KNOW AND LOVE
AND PURSUE BEAUTY

00:51:48.700 --> 00:51:53.667
AND TRUTH AND GOODNESS, AND
BASICALLY RELINQUISHING

00:51:53.767 --> 00:51:58.434
OUR INTELLECT AND OUR
FREEDOM TO POWERS

00:51:58.534 --> 00:52:02.900
THAT ARE POTENTIALLY
BEYOND OUR CONTROL.

00:52:03.000 --> 00:52:05.566
AND ULTIMATELY,


00:52:05.666 --> 00:52:12.866
SOURCES OF INFORMATION
THAT IN SOME RESPECTS

00:52:12.966 --> 00:52:15.000
MAY NOT HAVE OUR
BEST INTERESTS IN MIND.

00:52:15.100 --> 00:52:16.900
>> YEAH.


00:52:17.000 --> 00:52:20.267
>> WHETHER THAT'S SIMPLY
BECAUSE OF BAD PROGRAMMING

00:52:20.367 --> 00:52:24.267
OR BY DESIGN, BECAUSE
WHOEVER IS SHAPING

00:52:24.367 --> 00:52:27.533
AND CONTROLLING THE WAY IN
WHICH AI IS FUNCTIONING,

00:52:27.633 --> 00:52:30.634
IS TRYING TO STEER SOCIETY
IN PARTICULAR DIRECTIONS.

00:52:30.734 --> 00:52:32.466
>> AND THERE'S THE
POTENTIAL OF AI

00:52:32.566 --> 00:52:35.700
EVENTUALLY DOING ITS OWN THING.


00:52:35.800 --> 00:52:37.300
>> DOING ITS OWN THING


00:52:37.400 --> 00:52:38.533
BECAUSE WE DON'T QUITE
UNDERSTAND.

00:52:38.633 --> 00:52:39.967
>> WE DON'T QUITE -- WE'VE KIND
OF LET IT OUT OF THE BOX

00:52:40.067 --> 00:52:42.300
AND WE'RE NOT EXACTLY
SURE HOW IT'S GOING

00:52:42.400 --> 00:52:43.300
>> THAT'S RIGHT.


00:52:43.400 --> 00:52:44.500
>> TO UNFOLD, BUT
THERE'S GREAT POTENTIAL

00:52:44.600 --> 00:52:46.100
FOR A LOT
OF DIFFERENT THINGS.

00:52:46.200 --> 00:52:48.000
>> YEAH. I MEAN,
YOU KNOW, THESE PROGRAMS

00:52:48.100 --> 00:52:50.467
ALREADY SEEM TO BE DOING
THINGS THAT WE DON'T

00:52:50.567 --> 00:52:51.934
ENTIRELY UNDERSTAND.


00:52:52.034 --> 00:52:54.133
AND I DO WANT TO SAY


00:52:54.233 --> 00:52:56.933
I DON'T LIKE THE TERM
ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE.

00:52:57.033 --> 00:52:58.366
BECAUSE WHATEVER THIS
THING IS,

00:52:58.466 --> 00:53:00.067
IT'S NOT ACTUALLY INTELLIGENT.


00:53:00.167 --> 00:53:01.667
IT'S NOT ACTUALLY THINKING.


00:53:01.767 --> 00:53:04.033
IT'S AGGREGATING
INFORMATION AND TRYING TO

00:53:04.133 --> 00:53:05.367
PROVIDE ANSWERS
FROM STUFF

00:53:05.467 --> 00:53:06.267
THAT'S ALREADY OUT THERE


00:53:06.367 --> 00:53:07.834
THAT'S BEEN CREATED
BY HUMAN BEINGS.

00:53:07.934 --> 00:53:10.200
SO, YOU KNOW, WE SHOULD NOT
LABOR UNDER THE DELUSION

00:53:10.300 --> 00:53:12.667
THAT WE'RE CREATING A
SENTIENT BEING THAT HAS

00:53:12.767 --> 00:53:13.967
ITS OWN INTELLIGENCE.


00:53:14.067 --> 00:53:16.866
IT MAY BE ABLE TO MIMIC
VERY CONVINCINGLY

00:53:16.966 --> 00:53:20.000
HUMAN INTELLIGENCE, BUT IT'S
NOT ACTUALLY THINKING.

00:53:20.100 --> 00:53:22.667
IT'S SIMPLY DOING WHAT
IT'S PROGRAMMED TO DO.

00:53:22.767 --> 00:53:26.233
BUT THE WEIRD THING IS, AS
IT'S LEARNING AND AS

00:53:26.333 --> 00:53:27.767
ITS PROGRAM IS EVOLVING,


00:53:27.867 --> 00:53:30.833
IT'S BEGINNING TO DO
THINGS THAT THE PEOPLE WHO

00:53:30.933 --> 00:53:34.300
DESIGNED IT DON'T
FULLY UNDERSTAND.

00:53:34.400 --> 00:53:35.800
AND THAT'S A LITTLE WEIRD.


00:53:35.900 --> 00:53:37.366
IT DOES FEEL LIKE


00:53:37.466 --> 00:53:40.867
WE'VE LET THIS GENIE
OUT OF THE BOTTLE.

00:53:40.967 --> 00:53:42.833
WE DON'T ENTIRELY
UNDERSTAND AND KNOW

00:53:42.933 --> 00:53:44.666
WHAT DIRECTION IT'S
TAKING US.

00:53:44.766 --> 00:53:46.800
AND I THINK THAT'S
NOT A GOOD SETUP

00:53:46.900 --> 00:53:47.967
FOR HUMAN SOCIETY.


00:53:48.067 --> 00:53:50.400
I MEAN, THERE ARE
TWISTS AND TURNS IN HISTORY

00:53:50.500 --> 00:53:52.534
THAT WE DON'T PLAN
AND THAT ARE UNEXPECTED

00:53:52.634 --> 00:53:54.134
AND WE HAVE TO, YOU KNOW,


00:53:54.234 --> 00:53:57.767
THAT'S PART OF GOD'S
PROVIDENTIAL DESIGN.

00:53:57.867 --> 00:54:00.133
BUT AT THE SAME TIME
IF WE'RE TRYING TO DEVELOP

00:54:00.233 --> 00:54:04.266
THINGS THAT ARE SUPPOSED
TO BE TOOLS TO ENHANCE

00:54:04.366 --> 00:54:06.267
HUMAN HEALTH AND
HUMAN FLOURISHING,

00:54:06.367 --> 00:54:08.300
WE SHOULD UNDERSTAND WHAT
THEY'RE DOING TO US,

00:54:08.400 --> 00:54:10.534
AND WE SHOULD
MAINTAIN SOME DEGREE

00:54:10.634 --> 00:54:11.566
OF CONTROL OVER THEM


00:54:11.666 --> 00:54:14.233
SO THAT THEY CAN -- SO THAT
WE CAN GUIDE AND

00:54:14.333 --> 00:54:16.767
DIRECT TECHNOLOGY
RATHER THAN TECHNOLOGY

00:54:16.867 --> 00:54:18.266
GUIDING AND DIRECTING US.


00:54:18.366 --> 00:54:20.233
>> EXACTLY.


00:54:20.333 --> 00:54:25.067
ANOTHER THING THAT IS
GOING ON ALREADY IS,

00:54:25.167 --> 00:54:27.467
WELL, SOMETHING THAT'S
BEEN TALKED ABOUT A LOT

00:54:27.567 --> 00:54:28.933
BECAUSE THERE'S BEEN SO
MANY PROBLEMS

00:54:29.033 --> 00:54:30.800
PEOPLE ARE HAVING
WITH FERTILITY.

00:54:30.900 --> 00:54:34.600
NOW WE'RE HAVING IVF
AND SURROGACY,

00:54:34.700 --> 00:54:38.200
WHICH THERE ARE ETHICAL
DILEMMAS IN THAT ALONE.

00:54:38.300 --> 00:54:39.700
>> YES.


00:54:39.800 --> 00:54:42.300
>> INCLUDING THE FACT
THAT PARENTS CAN CREATE

00:54:42.400 --> 00:54:43.800
EMBRYOS AND DESTROY THEM.


00:54:43.900 --> 00:54:46.634
YOU HAVE THOUSANDS OF
EMBRYOS THAT ARE MADE IN YOU,

00:54:46.734 --> 00:54:48.033
AND I BELIEVE LIFE
BEGINS AT CONCEPTION.

00:54:48.133 --> 00:54:49.100
>> YES.


00:54:49.200 --> 00:54:50.167
>> SO YOU'RE CREATING
A LIFE AND THEN YOU'RE

00:54:50.267 --> 00:54:52.400
FREEZING IT AND THEY CAN
BE UP THERE

00:54:52.500 --> 00:54:53.834
FOR 20-SOMETHING YEARS.


00:54:53.934 --> 00:54:55.267
>> THAT'S RIGHT.


00:54:55.367 --> 00:54:56.766
>> WHICH IS JUST, I CAN'T
EVEN FATHOM THAT

00:54:56.866 --> 00:54:57.900
FROM A SPIRITUAL PERSPECTIVE,


00:54:58.000 --> 00:55:00.034
HOW AWFUL THAT IS.


00:55:00.134 --> 00:55:02.166
AND A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T
KNOW THAT ABOUT IVF.

00:55:02.266 --> 00:55:03.300
>> CORRECT.


00:55:03.400 --> 00:55:04.500
>> YOU KNOW, THEY JUST THINK,
OH, THIS IS GREAT.

00:55:04.600 --> 00:55:06.467
WE'RE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE
HELPING PEOPLE HAVE CHILDREN,

00:55:06.567 --> 00:55:08.534
BUT THERE'S A LOT OF
MORAL AND ETHICAL ISSUES,

00:55:08.634 --> 00:55:11.200
BUT THERE IS ALSO SOMETHING
COMING DOWN THE PIPELINE

00:55:11.300 --> 00:55:13.833
WHICH IS CALLED IVG,
WHICH IS NOT IN HUMANS YET,

00:55:13.933 --> 00:55:17.767
BUT IT HAS BEEN SUCCESSFULLY
CONDUCTED IN ANIMALS.

00:55:17.867 --> 00:55:19.433
CAN YOU TELL OUR
AUDIENCE ABOUT THAT?

00:55:19.533 --> 00:55:23.166
>> YES. SO IVG, WHICH STANDS FOR
IN VITRO GAMETOGENESIS,

00:55:23.266 --> 00:55:26.633
IS ALSO SOMETIMES REFERRED
TO AS ARTIFICIAL GAMETES,

00:55:26.733 --> 00:55:28.867
AND AS YOU SAID
THIS HAS NOT YET BEEN DONE

00:55:28.967 --> 00:55:30.966
OR DEVELOPED OR PERFECTED
IN HUMAN BEINGS,

00:55:31.066 --> 00:55:33.633
BUT IT HAS BEEN DONE IN MICE.


00:55:33.733 --> 00:55:36.900
AND GIVEN THAT IT CAN BE
DONE IN OTHER MAMMALS,

00:55:37.000 --> 00:55:39.700
IT'S NOT UNREASONABLE,
CREDIBLE SCIENTISTS

00:55:39.800 --> 00:55:41.866
WORKING ON THIS,


00:55:41.966 --> 00:55:43.900
WHO ARE NOT NECESSARILY
PRONE TO EXAGGERATION

00:55:44.000 --> 00:55:47.734
SAY, POSSIBLY SOMETIME IN
THE NEXT TEN YEARS.

00:55:47.834 --> 00:55:49.533
SO, SOMETIME IN THE FAIRLY
NEAR-TERM FUTURE

00:55:49.633 --> 00:55:52.000
THIS MIGHT BE AVAILABLE
IN HUMANS.

00:55:52.100 --> 00:55:53.734
AN ARTIFICIAL GAMETE
WOULD INVOLVE

00:55:53.834 --> 00:55:56.434
TAKING A CELL,
LIKE A SKIN CELL

00:55:56.534 --> 00:55:59.667
FROM THE HUMAN BODY AND
REPROGRAMMING IT GENETICALLY

00:55:59.767 --> 00:56:03.100
TO TURN IT
INTO SPERM AND EGGS.

00:56:03.200 --> 00:56:04.467
THAT'S WHAT THE WORD
GAMETE MEANS.

00:56:04.567 --> 00:56:09.100
GAMETE REFERS TO MALE SPERM
OR FEMALE OVUM.

00:56:09.200 --> 00:56:12.467
NOW WHAT MIGHT THAT
MEAN WE COULD DO?

00:56:12.567 --> 00:56:16.166
WELL, YOU COULD DO THINGS,
FOR EXAMPLE, LIKE

00:56:16.266 --> 00:56:20.067
CREATE OVUM OR EGGS FROM MALES,


00:56:20.167 --> 00:56:21.767
OR SPERM FROM FEMALES,


00:56:21.867 --> 00:56:23.967
AND THAT WOULD PERMIT
TWO MALES TO HAVE

00:56:24.067 --> 00:56:25.067
A GENETICALLY-RELATED CHILD,


00:56:25.167 --> 00:56:27.967
OR TWO FEMALES TO HAVE A
GENETICALLY-RELATED CHILD.

00:56:28.067 --> 00:56:31.200
SO, YOU KNOW, MANY PEOPLE
IN THE LGBT COMMUNITY

00:56:31.300 --> 00:56:33.600
ARE PUSHING FOR THIS
TECHNOLOGY BECAUSE THEY

00:56:33.700 --> 00:56:37.200
WANT TO BE ABLE TO HAVE
CHILDREN AS A GAY

00:56:37.300 --> 00:56:40.266
OR LESBIAN COUPLE THAT WOULD
NOT REQUIRE THAT THE CHILD

00:56:40.366 --> 00:56:42.600
HAVE A GENETIC
MOTHER AND FATHER,

00:56:42.700 --> 00:56:45.133
AS IS, OBVIOUSLY,
CURRENTLY THE CASE

00:56:45.233 --> 00:56:46.467
AND HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE CASE


00:56:46.567 --> 00:56:48.200
THROUGHOUT HUMAN HISTORY.


00:56:48.300 --> 00:56:52.167
SO A RADICAL ALTERATION
AND REVISION OF THE IDEA

00:56:52.267 --> 00:56:55.167
OF LINEAGE AND THE
CREATION OF NEW HUMAN LIFE,

00:56:55.267 --> 00:56:57.333
AND THAT EVERY HUMAN BEING,
EVEN IF THEY'RE RAISED

00:56:57.433 --> 00:57:00.067
BY A SINGLE PARENT OR EVEN IF
THEY'RE RAISED BY

00:57:00.167 --> 00:57:04.534
A SAME-SEX COUPLE, EVERY SINGLE
HUMAN BEING IN EXISTENCE KNOWS

00:57:04.634 --> 00:57:07.566
I CAME ULTIMATELY
FROM A MAN AND A WOMAN.

00:57:07.666 --> 00:57:10.333
AND, YOU KNOW, HOPEFULLY THEY
KNOW THEY ALSO,

00:57:10.433 --> 00:57:12.067
THE CREATIVE POWER OF
GOD THAT ALLOWED ME

00:57:12.167 --> 00:57:14.067
TO COME INTO EXISTENCE.


00:57:14.167 --> 00:57:17.666
SO THAT WOULD POTENTIALLY
BE RADICALLY REALTERED

00:57:17.766 --> 00:57:20.300
BY IVG, OR ARTIFICIAL GAMETES.


00:57:20.400 --> 00:57:23.000
OTHER PROPONENTS OF THIS
TECHNOLOGY HAVE TALKED ABOUT

00:57:23.100 --> 00:57:24.166
THE POSSIBILITY OF


00:57:24.266 --> 00:57:27.333
WHAT THEY CALL MULTIPLEX
PARENTING,

00:57:27.433 --> 00:57:29.100
WHICH IS A PROPOSAL
THEY CELEBRATE.

00:57:29.200 --> 00:57:31.800
A PROPOSAL THAT I PERSONALLY
FIND HORRIFYING.

00:57:31.900 --> 00:57:33.033
AND THIS WOULD BE,


00:57:33.133 --> 00:57:37.133
LET'S SAY YOU HAVE A GROUP
OF FOUR PEOPLE OF ANY GENDER

00:57:37.233 --> 00:57:38.967
WHO WANT TO HAVE A
GENETICALLY-RELATED CHILD.

00:57:39.067 --> 00:57:42.300
YOU TAKE TWO MEMBERS OF
THAT FOURSOME,

00:57:42.400 --> 00:57:44.466
YOU TAKE SPERM
AND EGGS FROM THEM.

00:57:44.566 --> 00:57:46.833
YOU CREATE AN EMBRYO
IN THE LAB.

00:57:46.933 --> 00:57:49.867
YOU EXTRACT EMBRYONIC
STEM CELLS FROM THAT EMBRYO

00:57:49.967 --> 00:57:52.066
AND CREATE SPERM
AND EGGS FROM THAT.

00:57:52.166 --> 00:57:55.133
YOU DO THE SAME THING WITH A
SECOND DIFFERENT COUPLE,

00:57:55.233 --> 00:57:56.233
CREATE AN EMBRYO
IN THE LAB,

00:57:56.333 --> 00:57:58.000
EXTRACT SPERM AND EGGS.


00:57:58.100 --> 00:58:00.733
AND THEN FROM THOSE GAMETES
EXTRACTED FROM THOSE EMBRYOS

00:58:00.833 --> 00:58:02.266
YOU CREATE YET A THIRD EMBRYO


00:58:02.366 --> 00:58:04.233
AND YOU BRING THAT
EMBRYO TO BIRTH,

00:58:04.333 --> 00:58:06.700
DESTROYING THE FIRST
TWO EMBRYOS IN THE PROCESS.

00:58:06.800 --> 00:58:08.967
THAT EMBRYO WHO HAS BEEN
BROUGHT TO BIRTH

00:58:09.067 --> 00:58:12.367
IS GENETICALLY RELATED TO
ALL FOUR OF THOSE PEOPLE.

00:58:12.467 --> 00:58:14.133
TECHNICALLY, FROM A
GENETIC PERSPECTIVE,

00:58:14.233 --> 00:58:18.234
THOSE ARE THE PERSON'S
GENETIC GRANDPARENTS.

00:58:18.334 --> 00:58:20.734
THE PERSON'S PARENTS WERE
EMBRYOS THAT WERE CREATED

00:58:20.834 --> 00:58:23.000
AND DESTROYED
IN A LABORATORY.

00:58:23.100 --> 00:58:24.900
AND THEORETICALLY,


00:58:25.000 --> 00:58:27.334
YOU COULD RUN THAT CYCLE AS
MANY TIMES AS YOU WANT.

00:58:27.434 --> 00:58:30.066
SO CREATING EMBRYOS, EXTRACTING
EMBRYONIC STEM CELLS,

00:58:30.166 --> 00:58:33.167
CREATING GAMETES,
CREATING ANOTHER EMBRYO,

00:58:33.267 --> 00:58:36.000
EXTRACTING SOME CELLS OVER
AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

00:58:36.100 --> 00:58:40.700
FINALLY BRINGING AN EMBRYO
TO BIRTH WHOSE PARENTS,

00:58:40.800 --> 00:58:41.866
GRANDPARENTS, GREAT
GRANDPARENTS,

00:58:41.966 --> 00:58:44.933
GREAT-GREAT GRANDPARENTS WERE
ALL EMBRYOS CREATED

00:58:45.033 --> 00:58:45.967
AND DESTROYED IN A LABORATORY.


00:58:46.067 --> 00:58:48.500
THE ONLY LIVING RELATIVES
THAT PERSON HAS

00:58:48.600 --> 00:58:52.500
ARE, YOU KNOW, MULTIPLE
GENERATIONS BACK.

00:58:52.600 --> 00:58:55.400
AND THE INTERVENING
GENERATIONS HAVE BEEN

00:58:55.500 --> 00:58:59.766
COMPRESSED IN SPACE AND TIME,
NOT ALLOWED TO LIVE

00:58:59.866 --> 00:59:01.833
A FULL HUMAN LIFE.


00:59:01.933 --> 00:59:05.800
NOT ALLOWED TO EXIST
BEYOND THE EMBRYONIC STAGE.

00:59:05.900 --> 00:59:10.833
AND THEN YOU'VE CREATED A
HUMAN BEING WHOSE WHOLE IDENTITY

00:59:10.933 --> 00:59:14.633
AND LINEAGE HAS BEEN COMPLETELY
TURNED UPSIDE-DOWN.

00:59:14.733 --> 00:59:16.733
TO ME, THIS IS A
TERRIFYING

00:59:16.833 --> 00:59:19.100
AND HORRIFYING PROPOSITION.


00:59:19.200 --> 00:59:22.766
IT'S A WAY
OF PLAYING GOD.

00:59:22.866 --> 00:59:26.867
AND WITH HUMAN LIFE AT ITS
EARLIEST STAGE OF DEVELOPMENT,

00:59:26.967 --> 00:59:30.633
WHICH I THINK
IS PROFOUNDLY DISTURBING --

00:59:30.733 --> 00:59:32.900
THERE'S OTHER POSSIBILITIES
THAT THIS TECHNOLOGY

00:59:33.000 --> 00:59:36.166
RAISES AS WELL.


00:59:36.266 --> 00:59:39.600
YOU KNOW, BASICALLY THE
IDEA OF GENETIC THEFT

00:59:39.700 --> 00:59:42.367
BECOMES VERY EASY WHEN YOU
DON'T ACTUALLY HAVE TO

00:59:42.467 --> 00:59:45.300
EXTRACT SPERM AND EGGS.


00:59:45.400 --> 00:59:47.467
WITH, YOU KNOW,
ESPECIALLY WITH EGGS,

00:59:47.567 --> 00:59:50.933
A PROCEDURE THAT'S MUCH
MORE MEDICALLY INVASIVE.

00:59:51.033 --> 00:59:54.500
SO, THE EXAMPLE I USE IS
SUPPOSE YOU'RE A MAID

00:59:54.600 --> 00:59:58.300
WORKING AT A HOTEL WHERE
A FAMOUS MOVIE STAR IS STAYING.

00:59:58.400 --> 01:00:01.300
YOU KNOW, A TOM CRUISE OR A
BRAD PITT, AND, YOU KNOW,

01:00:01.400 --> 01:00:02.833
YOU HAVE THE NOTION THAT YOU
WANT TO HAVE

01:00:02.933 --> 01:00:04.434
THIS MOVIE STAR'S, BABY,


01:00:04.534 --> 01:00:06.234
BUT YOU FAILED TO
SEDUCE HIM

01:00:06.334 --> 01:00:07.767
IN THE OLD-FASHIONED WAY.


01:00:07.867 --> 01:00:10.900
WELL, NO MATTER, YOU CAN
GO AFTER HE CHECKS OUT,

01:00:11.000 --> 01:00:12.800
YOU CAN GO TO THE PILLOW
WHERE HE'S SLEPT

01:00:12.900 --> 01:00:15.467
AND SCRAPE SOME OF HIS SKIN
CELLS OFF THE PILLOW

01:00:15.567 --> 01:00:17.867
AND BRING IT TO A
ROGUE IVG CLINIC,

01:00:17.967 --> 01:00:20.133
AND HAVE THAT MOVIE STAR'S
SPERM CREATED

01:00:20.233 --> 01:00:23.567
AND THEN DO IVF AND BRING THAT
PERSON'S CHILD TO BIRTH

01:00:23.667 --> 01:00:26.366
WITHOUT THAT PERSON'S
KNOWLEDGE OR CONSENT

01:00:26.466 --> 01:00:28.967
THAT THAT EVEN HAPPENED, RIGHT.


01:00:29.067 --> 01:00:33.433
SO WE'RE TINKERING WITH
WITH NATURE AND THINGS

01:00:33.533 --> 01:00:37.334
THAT GOD IN HIS
WISDOM CONJOINED IN NATURE,

01:00:37.434 --> 01:00:39.967
THAT WE ARE
TEARING APART, RIGHT?

01:00:40.067 --> 01:00:46.566
GOD MADE HUMAN LIFE TO
BE BOUND UP WITH

01:00:46.666 --> 01:00:48.433
THE LOVE OF A MOTHER
AND A FATHER

01:00:48.533 --> 01:00:52.167
IN THE CONTEXT OF MARRIAGE
IN THEIR SEXUAL UNION

01:00:52.267 --> 01:00:53.533
FOR A REASON.


01:00:53.633 --> 01:00:56.400
BECAUSE THAT IS THE
BEST CONTEXT

01:00:56.500 --> 01:00:59.567
FOR A NEW HUMAN BEING TO
BE BORN, AND TO BE RAISED,

01:00:59.667 --> 01:01:04.300
AND TO BE NURTURED, AND TO
BE GIVEN THE GIFT OF LIFE.

01:01:04.400 --> 01:01:07.133
AND NOW THESE THINGS THAT
GOD HAD CONJOINED

01:01:07.233 --> 01:01:12.467
FROM CONCEPTION,
TO GESTATION, TO BIRTH,

01:01:12.567 --> 01:01:15.700
AND THE REARING OF CHILDREN,


01:01:15.800 --> 01:01:17.933
USING THESE ASSISTED
REPRODUCTIVE TECHNOLOGIES

01:01:18.033 --> 01:01:22.800
FROM ARTIFICIAL GAMETES
TO GESTATIONAL SURROGACY,

01:01:22.900 --> 01:01:24.600
WHICH YOU MENTIONED
EARLIER, TO IVF,

01:01:24.700 --> 01:01:27.233
WE'RE TEARING
THOSE THINGS APART.

01:01:27.333 --> 01:01:29.700
AND I THINK WE'RE
DOING IT IN A WAY

01:01:29.800 --> 01:01:31.933
THAT HAS MAYBE
UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES,

01:01:32.033 --> 01:01:35.167
BUT NEVERTHELESS,
PROFOUNDLY PROBLEMATIC

01:01:35.267 --> 01:01:40.100
AND NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCES
FOR THE RESPECT

01:01:40.200 --> 01:01:43.000
THAT'S DUE TO HUMAN LIFE,
AND FOR THE CONTEXT

01:01:43.100 --> 01:01:46.866
IN WHICH HUMAN LIFE SHOULD BE
BROUGHT INTO THE WORLD.

01:01:46.966 --> 01:01:49.866
NOW, SOME PEOPLE OBJECT AND SAY
WELL, YOU KNOW,

01:01:49.966 --> 01:01:52.333
THIS KIND OF THING
HAPPENS ALL THE TIME

01:01:52.433 --> 01:01:53.800
WITH ADOPTION, RIGHT?


01:01:53.900 --> 01:01:55.200
SO IN THE CASE
OF ADOPTION,

01:01:55.300 --> 01:01:58.233
YOU DON'T HAVE A PERSON'S
BIOLOGICAL MOTHER AND FATHER

01:01:58.333 --> 01:02:01.700
RAISING THAT CHILD,
AND YET WE ACCEPT THAT

01:02:01.800 --> 01:02:04.533
AS A SOCIETY AND EVEN
CHRISTIANS AND CHRISTIAN ETHICS

01:02:04.633 --> 01:02:06.500
WOULD EMBRACE
ADOPTION AS GOOD,

01:02:06.600 --> 01:02:09.533
AS A WAY TO GIVE THIS CHILD
MAYBE A POTENTIALLY BETTER LIFE

01:02:09.633 --> 01:02:11.166
THAN THEY OTHERWISE
WOULD HAVE HAD.

01:02:11.266 --> 01:02:12.933
AND THAT'S TRUE,
BUT THE DIFFERENCE

01:02:13.033 --> 01:02:16.167
BETWEEN WHAT WE'RE TALKING
ABOUT HERE AND ADOPTION IS,

01:02:16.267 --> 01:02:21.133
ADOPTION IS TAKING A
SITUATION THAT IS TRAGIC

01:02:21.233 --> 01:02:23.967
AND TRYING TO MAKE THE
BEST OUT OF IT, RIGHT.

01:02:24.067 --> 01:02:26.900
WE DIDN'T SET OUT BY
DESIGN TO CREATE A SITUATION

01:02:27.000 --> 01:02:28.600
WHICH A CHILD COULD
NOT BE RAISED BY

01:02:28.700 --> 01:02:29.800
ITS OWN FATHER AND MOTHER.


01:02:29.900 --> 01:02:31.967
BUT, YOU KNOW, CIRCUMSTANCES
BEING WHAT THEY ARE

01:02:32.067 --> 01:02:33.166
IN A FALLEN WORLD,
HUMAN NATURE

01:02:33.266 --> 01:02:34.333
BEING WHAT IT IS,


01:02:34.433 --> 01:02:36.333
MAYBE THE FATHER AND
MOTHER HAVE DIED.

01:02:36.433 --> 01:02:39.300
MAYBE THEY'RE ADDICTED TO
DRUGS OR NOT IN A POSITION

01:02:39.400 --> 01:02:41.033
WHERE THEY CAN CARE
FOR THAT CHILD.

01:02:41.133 --> 01:02:42.133
SO THEY GIVE IT UP
FOR ADOPTION.

01:02:42.233 --> 01:02:46.567
AND THAT'S MAKING THE BEST
OF A TRAGIC SITUATION,

01:02:46.667 --> 01:02:48.900
BUT WHAT THESE ARTIFICIAL
REPRODUCTIVE TECHNOLOGIES

01:02:48.967 --> 01:02:51.666
ARE DOING AND WHAT
ARTIFICIAL GAMETES

01:02:51.766 --> 01:02:53.467
AND SURROGACY DO, FOR EXAMPLE,


01:02:53.567 --> 01:02:55.066
IS THEY SET OUT BY DESIGN


01:02:55.166 --> 01:02:57.867
TO CREATE A SITUATION IN
WHICH THE CHILD

01:02:57.967 --> 01:03:01.500
IS NOT GOING TO BE BROUGHT INTO
THE WORLD IN THE CONTEXT

01:03:01.600 --> 01:03:03.234
OF A LOVING AND
STABLE MARRIAGE

01:03:03.334 --> 01:03:05.700
BETWEEN A MAN AND A WOMAN.


01:03:05.800 --> 01:03:07.900
AND SO I THINK
THEY'RE MORALLY DIFFERENT

01:03:08.000 --> 01:03:09.434
FOR THAT REASON.


01:03:09.534 --> 01:03:11.533
ONE IS MAKING THE BEST OF
A TRAGIC SITUATION.

01:03:11.633 --> 01:03:14.567
THE OTHER IS SETTING OUT
INTENTIONALLY IN ADVANCE

01:03:14.667 --> 01:03:16.100
TO CREATE A
PROBLEMATIC SITUATION.

01:03:16.200 --> 01:03:17.800
SURROGACY,
FOR EXAMPLE, RIGHT,

01:03:17.900 --> 01:03:19.833
WHERE YOU HAVE
A SURROGATE MOTHER

01:03:19.933 --> 01:03:24.367
WHO'S SOMETIMES PAID IN
THIS VERY TRANSACTIONAL

01:03:24.467 --> 01:03:27.633
KIND OF ARRANGEMENT TO
CARRY A CHILD IN HER WOMB

01:03:27.733 --> 01:03:30.000
FOR NINE MONTHS AND WE
KNOW THAT MATERNAL-FETAL

01:03:30.100 --> 01:03:33.334
CHILD BONDING AND
ATTACHMENT HAPPENS

01:03:33.434 --> 01:03:35.067
DURING THOSE NINE MONTHS.


01:03:35.167 --> 01:03:39.367
A NEWBORN BABY WILL
PREFERENTIALLY TURN ITS GAZE

01:03:39.467 --> 01:03:41.567
TO THE VOICE OF ITS MOTHER,


01:03:41.667 --> 01:03:44.234
WHICH IT HAS KNOWN
AND LEARNED

01:03:44.334 --> 01:03:46.200
WHILE IT WAS IN THE WOMB.


01:03:46.300 --> 01:03:48.767
AND WE CREATE A SITUATION


01:03:48.867 --> 01:03:51.800
WHICH THAT GESTATIONAL
MOTHER GIVES BIRTH

01:03:51.900 --> 01:03:54.967
AND IN MOST CASES THE SURROGACY
CONTRACT REQUIRES THAT

01:03:55.067 --> 01:03:57.566
THEY NOT EVEN BE ALLOWED
TO HOLD THAT CHILD

01:03:57.666 --> 01:03:59.233
THAT THEY HAVE GESTATED
FOR NINE MONTHS.

01:03:59.333 --> 01:04:02.434
THE CHILD IS WHISKED AWAY AND
GIVEN TO SOMEONE ELSE.

01:04:02.534 --> 01:04:05.367
I WOULD ARGUE THAT THAT'S
ETHICALLY DIFFERENT

01:04:05.467 --> 01:04:06.934
FROM AN ADOPTION SITUATION.


01:04:07.034 --> 01:04:09.400
BECAUSE, AGAIN,


01:04:09.500 --> 01:04:12.066
WE DIDN'T SET OUT TO
CREATE THE CIRCUMSTANCES

01:04:12.166 --> 01:04:14.767
IN WHICH ADOPTION WAS
FOUND TO BE THE BEST OPTION,

01:04:14.867 --> 01:04:16.200
BUT IN THIS CASE WE DID.


01:04:16.300 --> 01:04:17.266
WE SET OUT IN ADVANCE


01:04:17.366 --> 01:04:20.434
WITH CONTRACTS,
WITH PREARRANGED AGREEMENTS,

01:04:20.534 --> 01:04:23.667
TO BASICALLY TEAR
A CHILD AWAY FROM THE WOMAN

01:04:23.767 --> 01:04:25.667
WHO GESTATED IT IN HER
WOMB FOR NINE MONTHS

01:04:25.767 --> 01:04:28.667
AND GIVE IT TO SOMEONE ELSE.


01:04:28.767 --> 01:04:32.033
SO NEW HUMAN LIFE IS A GOOD AND
BEAUTIFUL THING, RIGHT.

01:04:32.133 --> 01:04:34.134
AND IT'S A GOOD AND
BEAUTIFUL THING TO HELP

01:04:34.234 --> 01:04:36.733
INFERTILE COUPLES TO BRING
LIFE INTO THE WORLD.

01:04:36.833 --> 01:04:40.567
BUT I THINK WE NEED TO
FOCUS OUR ENERGIES ON

01:04:40.667 --> 01:04:43.633
AS MANY PEOPLE NOW IN THE
THE NEW MOVEMENT

01:04:43.733 --> 01:04:45.400
TO MAKE AMERICA HEALTHY AGAIN,


01:04:45.500 --> 01:04:48.500
LET'S FOCUS ON THE ROOT
CAUSES OF INFERTILITY.

01:04:48.600 --> 01:04:49.867
YOU KNOW, IF YOU THINK
ABOUT IT, NONE OF THESE

01:04:49.967 --> 01:04:52.266
TECHNOLOGIES ACTUALLY
TREAT INFERTILITY.

01:04:52.366 --> 01:04:53.866
IVF DOESN'T TREAT INFERTILITY.


01:04:53.966 --> 01:04:56.000
IT MERELY DOES AND END-RUN
AROUND THE PROBLEM

01:04:56.100 --> 01:04:58.867
BY CREATING THE NEW
HUMAN LIFE IN THE LABORATORY.

01:04:58.967 --> 01:05:00.000
>> YEAH.


01:05:00.100 --> 01:05:02.200
>> SURROGACY DOES
NOT TREAT THE INABILITY OF

01:05:02.300 --> 01:05:04.300
A WOMAN TO CARRY
A PREGNANCY TO TERM.

01:05:04.400 --> 01:05:05.466
IT MERELY, YOU KNOW,


01:05:05.566 --> 01:05:09.034
BASICALLY TAKES ANOTHER
WOMAN AND USES HER BODY

01:05:09.134 --> 01:05:12.933
AS A KIND OF NINE-MONTH LONG,
SORT OF --

01:05:13.033 --> 01:05:14.200
WHEN YOU PURCHASE
A HUMAN BODY,

01:05:14.300 --> 01:05:15.767
THERE'S A NAME FOR
THAT, LEGALLY.

01:05:15.867 --> 01:05:17.166
IT'S CALLED SLAVERY.


01:05:17.266 --> 01:05:19.033
SO, I MEAN, IT'S A
STRONG TERM, BUT IT'S THE

01:05:19.133 --> 01:05:21.900
MOST ACCURATE WAY
TO DESCRIBE THIS,

01:05:22.000 --> 01:05:25.766
THIS COMMODIFICATION
OF THE HUMAN BODY.

01:05:25.866 --> 01:05:28.933
SO WE'VE TORN
THINGS APART THAT

01:05:29.033 --> 01:05:31.600
GOD HAS CONJOINED
AND WE'VE ALSO,

01:05:31.700 --> 01:05:34.200
BY FOCUSING EXCLUSIVELY
ON THESE TECHNOLOGIES,

01:05:34.300 --> 01:05:36.434
WE ALSO HAVE NOT PUT A LOT
OF TIME AND ENERGY AND

01:05:36.534 --> 01:05:40.200
RESOURCES AND RESEARCH
INTO WHY ARE

01:05:40.300 --> 01:05:41.533
1 IN 6 COUPLES


01:05:41.633 --> 01:05:42.766
STRUGGLING WITH
INFERTILITY.

01:05:42.866 --> 01:05:45.434
WHENEVER I TALK ABOUT IVF,
FOR EXAMPLE,

01:05:45.534 --> 01:05:48.466
I ALWAYS WANT TO BE VERY
COMPASSIONATE TO PEOPLE

01:05:48.566 --> 01:05:50.934
WHO ARE TEMPTED TO DEPLOY
THESE TECHNOLOGIES

01:05:51.034 --> 01:05:53.600
BECAUSE THE PAIN OF
INFERTILITY IS VERY REAL.

01:05:53.700 --> 01:05:54.633
>> YEAH.


01:05:54.733 --> 01:05:57.666
>> AND YOU HAVE VERY
MANY COUPLES OUT THERE

01:05:57.766 --> 01:05:59.000
THAT WOULD BE GOOD PARENTS
AND WANT TO BRING A CHILD

01:05:59.100 --> 01:06:00.200
INTO THE WORLD.


01:06:00.300 --> 01:06:03.534
OKAY, LET'S LET'S FIND
WAYS TO GET TO THE ROOT CAUSES

01:06:03.634 --> 01:06:05.700
OF WHY THEY ARE
UNABLE TO CONCEIVE

01:06:05.800 --> 01:06:10.133
OR UNABLE TO CARRY A CHILD TO
TERM AND TRY TO GET AT

01:06:10.233 --> 01:06:13.733
THE ROOT OF THINGS, SO THAT
CHILDREN CAN BE

01:06:13.833 --> 01:06:16.067
BROUGHT INTO THE WORLD IN THE
CONTEXT OF A LOVING

01:06:16.167 --> 01:06:17.400
AND STABLE MARRIAGE;


01:06:17.500 --> 01:06:20.234
IN THE CONTEXT OF
THE SEXUAL UNION

01:06:20.334 --> 01:06:23.600
THAT GOD DESIGNED
PRECISELY TO BE THE WAY

01:06:23.700 --> 01:06:28.133
THAT WE CO-CREATE WITH HIM
NEW HUMAN LIFE.

01:06:28.233 --> 01:06:33.233
RATHER THAN JUST BEING THE
MASTERS OF THESE TECHNOLOGIES

01:06:33.333 --> 01:06:35.066
THAT ARE NOW TAKING
US, IN MANY CASES,

01:06:35.166 --> 01:06:39.766
DOWN, I THINK, A POTENTIALLY
VERY DARK PATH.

01:06:39.866 --> 01:06:43.300
>> WOW.


01:06:43.400 --> 01:06:45.167
WELL, JUST MY FINAL QUESTION
FOR YOU IS, FIRST OF ALL,

01:06:45.267 --> 01:06:47.033
THANK YOU FOR ALL
OF THIS INSIGHT.

01:06:47.133 --> 01:06:49.467
MY FINAL QUESTION IS
WHAT IS THE THING THAT

01:06:49.567 --> 01:06:53.067
YOU'RE THE MOST CONCERNED
ABOUT, THAT YOU SEE

01:06:53.167 --> 01:06:54.567
POTENTIALLY IN THE FUTURE?


01:06:54.667 --> 01:06:57.267
>> WELL, I'M CONCERNED
ABOUT HUMAN SIN.

01:06:57.367 --> 01:06:58.200
IT'S A PERENNIAL --


01:06:58.300 --> 01:07:00.534
IT'S A PERENNIAL PROBLEM.


01:07:00.634 --> 01:07:04.933
I'M CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT THE
ANCIENT GREEKS CALLED HUBRIS,

01:07:05.033 --> 01:07:08.600
WHICH IS A FORM
OF OVERWEENING PRIDE.

01:07:08.700 --> 01:07:15.534
I'M CONCERNED THAT WE
WILL ADOPT THE FALSE BELIEF

01:07:15.634 --> 01:07:17.433
AND START TO
WORSHIP THE FALSE IDOL

01:07:17.533 --> 01:07:19.933
THAT THROUGH SCIENCE
AND TECHNOLOGY,

01:07:20.033 --> 01:07:21.567
WE CAN SAVE OURSELVES.


01:07:21.667 --> 01:07:23.200
WE CAN LIVE FOREVER.


01:07:23.300 --> 01:07:26.200
WHICH IS THE ULTIMATE GOAL
OF THE TRANSHUMANIST MOVEMENT.

01:07:26.300 --> 01:07:30.634
IT'S A RELIGIOUS ASPIRATION.


01:07:30.734 --> 01:07:34.233
AND IT TAPS INTO --
IT'S ATTRACTIVE TO PEOPLE

01:07:34.333 --> 01:07:37.500
BECAUSE IT TAPS INTO
AN INNATE RELIGIOUS LONGING

01:07:37.600 --> 01:07:39.700
THAT WE HAVE FOR
ETERNAL LIFE THAT GOD

01:07:39.800 --> 01:07:41.466
IMPLANTED IN OUR HEARTS.


01:07:41.566 --> 01:07:43.734
AND IT GIVES US A
COUNTERFEIT SUBSTITUTE

01:07:43.834 --> 01:07:45.900
THAT'S OBVIOUSLY NOT
GOING TO SATISFY US.

01:07:46.000 --> 01:07:49.233
AND I BELIEVE IS, IN THE END,
SALVATION THROUGH

01:07:49.333 --> 01:07:51.167
SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY IS NOT
ONLY GOING TO FAIL

01:07:51.267 --> 01:07:52.167
TO ACHIEVE THAT GOAL,


01:07:52.267 --> 01:07:53.533
IT'S GOING TO END UP
BEING DEHUMANIZING.

01:07:53.633 --> 01:07:56.533
IT'S GOING TO DO A LOT
MORE HARM THAN GOOD.

01:07:56.633 --> 01:07:58.700
SO A BIG PICTURE,


01:07:58.800 --> 01:08:04.433
I WORRY THAT A LACK OF
APPROPRIATE HUMILITY,

01:08:04.533 --> 01:08:10.467
A LACK OF SUBMISSION TO
GOD'S WILL, A BELIEF THAT

01:08:10.567 --> 01:08:12.267
THROUGH THE WORK OF OUR
HANDS THROUGH

01:08:12.367 --> 01:08:13.367
SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY


01:08:13.467 --> 01:08:15.033
WE CAN BECOME
OUR OWN GODS.

01:08:15.133 --> 01:08:18.667
WE CAN CREATE A UTOPIA.


01:08:18.767 --> 01:08:20.400
A PERFECT HUMAN FUTURE


01:08:20.500 --> 01:08:24.366
IS GOING TO, AS THE
IDEOLOGIES OF THE 20TH CENTURY,

01:08:24.466 --> 01:08:26.800
LIKE COMMUNISM
PROMISED A UTOPIA,

01:08:26.900 --> 01:08:28.900
A PERFECT HUMAN FUTURE IN
THIS LIFE, WHERE THERE

01:08:29.000 --> 01:08:31.600
WOULD BE NO MORE NECESSITY,
NO MORE DEPENDENCE.

01:08:31.700 --> 01:08:34.566
THERE WOULD BE SORT OF
PERFECT FREEDOM AND TRANQUILITY.

01:08:34.666 --> 01:08:36.667
AND IT ENDED
UP INSTEAD PRODUCING

01:08:36.767 --> 01:08:39.234
A KIND OF HELL ON EARTH.


01:08:39.334 --> 01:08:41.967
SO LET'S LEARN THE
LESSONS OF THE 20TH CENTURY

01:08:42.067 --> 01:08:44.566
THAT UTOPIAN IDEOLOGIES
THAT ATTEMPT TO

01:08:44.666 --> 01:08:50.634
CREATE PERFECTION ON EARTH,
RATHER THAN LOOKING TO GOD,

01:08:50.734 --> 01:08:53.333
RATHER THAN SUBMITTING
TO HIS WILL,

01:08:53.433 --> 01:08:56.567
RATHER THAN OBEYING HIS
COMMANDMENTS AND FOLLOWING

01:08:56.667 --> 01:08:59.767
THE LAW OF LOVE AND
FOLLOWING THE GOSPEL,

01:08:59.867 --> 01:09:04.266
I THINK IF WE DON'T DO
THAT WE COULD HAVE

01:09:04.366 --> 01:09:07.500
THE POTENTIAL, AS HAS HAPPENED
IN THE LAST CENTURY,

01:09:07.600 --> 01:09:10.533
OF GOING DOWN SOME VERY DARK
PATHS THAT END UP BEING

01:09:10.633 --> 01:09:13.867
EXTREMELY DESTRUCTIVE.


01:09:13.967 --> 01:09:17.767
AND SO IN A SENSE THAT, I MEAN,
NOT TO GET TOO APOCALYPTIC,

01:09:17.867 --> 01:09:20.867
BUT I TRULY BELIEVE WE'RE
AT A POINT IN HISTORY

01:09:20.967 --> 01:09:23.900
WHERE THE FUTURE OF THE HUMAN
RACE IS NOW DEPENDENT ON

01:09:24.000 --> 01:09:26.967
CONVERSION OF HEARTS AND
ON RELIGIOUS CONVERSION.

01:09:27.067 --> 01:09:29.100
AND THE ANSWER IS CHRIST.


01:09:29.200 --> 01:09:31.967
THE ANSWER IS FOUND
THERE IN HIS CROSS

01:09:32.067 --> 01:09:33.900
AND IN HIS RESURRECTION.


01:09:34.000 --> 01:09:38.533
AND IF WE PLACE OUR HOPE
THERE, AND HUMBLY GO TO HIM

01:09:38.633 --> 01:09:40.566
WITH OUR PROBLEMS AND WITH
OUR DIFFICULTIES,

01:09:40.666 --> 01:09:42.633
ASKING FOR WISDOM
AND GUIDANCE,

01:09:42.733 --> 01:09:46.600
THEN WE HAVE THE POTENTIAL
TO CREATE A FLOURISHING SOCIETY.

01:09:46.700 --> 01:09:52.700
BUT IF WE FORGET GOD,
IF WE NEGLECT GOD,

01:09:52.800 --> 01:09:55.500
AND ATTEMPT TO
BECOME OUR OWN GOD,

01:09:55.600 --> 01:09:59.300
THEN WE'RE GOING TO END UP
NOT ONLY SORT OF FAILING

01:09:59.400 --> 01:10:03.667
TO ACHIEVE PERFECTION, BUT
DOING ENORMOUS DAMAGE.

01:10:03.767 --> 01:10:07.100
ALEXANDER SOLZHENITSYN, THE
GREAT SOVIET DISSIDENT

01:10:07.200 --> 01:10:10.467
WHO EXPOSED THE HORRORS OF
COMMUNISM TO THE WORLD,

01:10:10.567 --> 01:10:13.767
LOOKED BACK ON THE HORRORS
OF SOVIET COMMUNISM

01:10:13.867 --> 01:10:16.300
AND WORLD WAR II AND THE
NAZI ATROCITIES,

01:10:16.400 --> 01:10:19.667
AND HE BASICALLY SAID
ALL OF THIS HAS HAPPENED

01:10:19.767 --> 01:10:23.233
BECAUSE WE'VE FORGOTTEN GOD.


01:10:23.333 --> 01:10:26.400
AND SO IF WE'VE
BECOME A PEOPLE THAT HAS

01:10:26.500 --> 01:10:29.967
FORGOTTEN GOD, THERE'S
GOING TO BE SOME, YOU KNOW,

01:10:30.067 --> 01:10:32.666
VERY HARD TIMES AHEAD.


01:10:32.766 --> 01:10:35.200
IF WE RETURN TO
HIM BEGINNING WITH THE

01:10:35.300 --> 01:10:37.734
CONVERSION OF
OUR OWN HEARTS,

01:10:37.834 --> 01:10:39.767
YOU KNOW, WE CAN LOOK AT
THE PROBLEMS IN SOCIETY

01:10:39.867 --> 01:10:42.267
AND THINK THE
ANSWER IS OUT THERE.

01:10:42.367 --> 01:10:43.834
YOU KNOW,
WE NEED POLITICS.

01:10:43.934 --> 01:10:46.133
WE NEED SOCIAL STRUCTURES.


01:10:46.233 --> 01:10:47.200
WE NEED VENTURES.


01:10:47.300 --> 01:10:48.634
AND ALL OF THOSE
THINGS ARE IMPORTANT.

01:10:48.734 --> 01:10:49.467
DON'T GET ME WRONG.


01:10:49.567 --> 01:10:50.467
POLITICS ARE IMPORTANT.


01:10:50.567 --> 01:10:52.234
PUBLIC POLICY IS IMPORTANT.


01:10:52.334 --> 01:10:54.200
THE INSTITUTIONS OF
CIVIL SOCIETY,

01:10:54.300 --> 01:10:55.867
ALL OF THOSE
THINGS ARE IMPORTANT.

01:10:55.967 --> 01:10:58.233
BUT THOSE THINGS WON'T
SAVE US.

01:10:58.333 --> 01:11:00.200
SOLZHENITSYN ALSO SAID
THAT THE LINE

01:11:00.300 --> 01:11:02.133
BETWEEN GOOD AND EVIL RUNS


01:11:02.233 --> 01:11:05.300
NOT BETWEEN POLITICAL PARTIES,
AND NOT BETWEEN NATION STATES.

01:11:05.400 --> 01:11:09.234
IT RUNS RIGHT THROUGH
THE MIDDLE OF EVERY HUMAN HEART.

01:11:09.334 --> 01:11:11.500
AND SO IF SOCIETY IS GOING
IN A BAD DIRECTION,

01:11:11.600 --> 01:11:14.367
THE FIRST PLACE WE HAVE
TO LOOK IS INWARD, RIGHT?

01:11:14.467 --> 01:11:17.733
WHAT CONVERSION IS GOD
CALLING ME TO PERSONALLY?

01:11:17.833 --> 01:11:20.667
WHAT IS HE CALLING ME TO
DO TO TRY TO HELP THE PEOPLE

01:11:20.767 --> 01:11:23.833
AROUND ME, BEGINNING
WITH MY CLOSEST FAMILY,

01:11:23.933 --> 01:11:25.533
BEGINNING WITH
MY CLOSE FRIENDS,

01:11:25.633 --> 01:11:30.100
AND THEN WORKING OUT IN
CONCENTRIC CIRCLES FROM THERE.

01:11:30.200 --> 01:11:31.433
IF WE BEGIN THERE,


01:11:31.533 --> 01:11:34.334
IF WE BEGIN IN PRAYER
WITH OUR OWN CONVERSION,

01:11:34.434 --> 01:11:38.767
IF WE BEGIN TO SEEK CHRIST,
THE WHOLE CHRIST,

01:11:38.867 --> 01:11:40.534
THE HEALING CHRIST,
THE PREACHING CHRIST,

01:11:40.634 --> 01:11:41.533
THE TEACHING CHRIST,


01:11:41.633 --> 01:11:42.633
THE SUFFERING CHRIST,


01:11:42.733 --> 01:11:44.800
THE GLORIFIED AND
RISEN CHRIST.

01:11:44.900 --> 01:11:46.100
I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW,


01:11:46.200 --> 01:11:48.633
WE HAVE A CHANCE OF
PRODUCING A MORE

01:11:48.733 --> 01:11:51.000
FLOURISHING SOCIETY AND
NOT A -- NOT A UTOPIA,

01:11:51.100 --> 01:11:52.134
WHICH WILL NEVER HAPPEN.


01:11:52.234 --> 01:11:53.933
WE LIVE IN A FALLEN WORLD.


01:11:54.033 --> 01:11:55.834
WE'RE NOT GOING TO ACHIEVE
PERFECTION IN THIS LIFE.

01:11:55.934 --> 01:11:57.434
BUT WE CAN DO
BETTER, RIGHT?

01:11:57.534 --> 01:11:58.633
WE CAN IMPROVE.


01:11:58.733 --> 01:12:01.233
WE CAN CERTAINLY IMPROVE
THINGS WITH OUR EYES

01:12:01.333 --> 01:12:04.133
FIXED FIRMLY ON HEAVEN AND
ON THE HOPE OF GLORY,

01:12:04.200 --> 01:12:07.167
WHICH IS THE PROMISE, THE
PRIZE OF ETERNAL LIFE

01:12:07.233 --> 01:12:09.766
THAT GOD HAS GIVEN
TO HIS FAITHFUL.

01:12:09.866 --> 01:12:10.933
>> THAT'S SO GOOD.


01:12:11.033 --> 01:12:12.867
WELL, DR, AARON, THANK YOU
SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

01:12:12.967 --> 01:12:13.967
>> THANK YOU, REBECCA.


01:12:14.067 --> 01:12:15.367
I ENJOYED THE
CONVERSATION.

01:12:15.467 --> 01:12:16.066
>> I DID TOO.