DARLENE ZSCHECH: BECAUSE GOD SAID TO ME,
YOU NEVER NEED TO PERFORM FOR ME.
YOU'VE BEEN BOUGHT WITH A PRICE.
YOU'RE NOT FOR SALE.
YOU JUST COME AND BE.
YOU JUST COME AND BRING YOU BEFORE ME.
THAT'S ALL I'M ASKING.
HE'S NOT AFTER ANY PERFORMANCE,
BUT HE'S LIKE,
JUST BRING YOUR BEST NOW.
BUT PREPARATION,
YOU'LL ALWAYS SEE WHAT YOU VALUE
WHEN YOU LOOK AT HOW MUCH TIME YOU TAKE
TO PREPARE FOR IT.
AND THERE'S NO ONE WORTH PREPARING MORE FOR THAN HIM.
DARLENE: YOU GOT IT.
REBECCA WEISS: HEY, GUYS, WELCOME TO THE PODCAST
ON OUR NEW SET.
AND THE FIRST GUEST TO HAVE ON OUR NEW SET
IS NONE OTHER THAN THE AMAZING DARLENE ZSCHECH.
HELLO, BEAUTIFUL.
THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.
IT LOOKS STUNNING, BY THE WAY.
THANK YOU.
AMAZING.
SO, ALL THE WAY FROM AUSTRALIA.
YEAH.
SO PEOPLE KNOW YOU, THEY LOVE YOU.
YOU'VE BEEN A WORSHIP LEADER FOR SO MANY YEARS.
YOU NOW ARE SENIOR PASTOR, YOU AND YOUR HUSBAND,
HAVE YOUR OWN CHURCH.
YEAH.
BUT LET'S GO BACK TO GROWING UP.
YEAH.
WHAT WAS LIFE LIKE GROWING UP,
AND HOW DID YOU COME TO KNOW THE LORD PERSONALLY?
YEAH.
WELL, I GREW UP ON TELEVISION, ACTUALLY.
LIKE WHEN I WAS TEN YEARS OLD,
I WAS PAID FULL TIME TO SING
ON A KID'S TELEVISION SHOW IN AUSTRALIA.
REALLY?
YEAH. YEAH.
SO I USED TO RECORD EIGHT SONGS A WEEK,
EVERY WEEK IN THE STUDIO 'TIL I WAS 15.
SO I KNOW A LOT OF RANDOM SONGS.
SOMETIMES I'M LIKE, HOW DO I KNOW THAT?
BUT IT'S FROM WHEN I WAS LITTLE.
AND THEN WHEN MY PARENTS WERE IN A REALLY TOUGH STAGE,
THEY END UP GETTING DIVORCED.
IT WAS A ROUGH TIME IN OUR FAMILY.
I ENDED UP MOVING OUT OF HOME.
I WAS 15.
I WAS RENTING A LITTLE ROOM IN THE BACK
OF A SINGLE MUM'S PLACE.
WAIT. YOU MOVED OUT ON YOUR OWN?
YEAH. YEAH.
AT 15?
AT 15, YEAH.
LONG STORY, BUT THERE I WAS.
THEN MY FATHER REDEDICATED HIS LIFE TO JESUS
IN THAT TIME,
CAME AND PICKED ME UP FROM WHERE I WAS LIVING,
AND TOOK ME TO YOUTH GROUP AT A LOCAL CHURCH
AROUND THE CORNER, AND I GOT RADICALLY SAVED.
I JUST GOT RADICALLY SAVED AND I GUESS -
HOW DID IT HAPPEN?
LIKE, DID YOU HAVE AN ENCOUNTER WITH GOD OR WAS -
WELL, THEY DID AN ALTAR CALL AND I'M LIKE,
WELL, EVERYTHING'S MESSY.
HOW BAD, I MEAN, I DIDN'T REALLY KNOW.
I KNOW MY GRANDPARENTS, CHRISTIANS, PRAYING,
PRAYED FOR US BY NAME EVERY DAY OF OUR LIVES.
SO THERE WAS, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS -
IT WAS ONLY A MATTER OF TIME
BEFORE I REALLY, YOU KNOW,
COMMITTED MY LIFE TO JESUS.
BUT IN THAT MOMENT,
WHAT HAPPENED WAS I REALLY GOT OVERWHELMED
BY THE LOVE OF GOD.
AND I WILL TELL YOU HONESTLY, FROM THAT DAY TO THIS,
IT STILL OVERWHELMS ME, THE LOVE OF GOD.
AND I CALL IT IN MY LIFE
THE KEEPING POWER OF GOD.
LIKE, KNOWING THAT YOU'RE LOVED
AND YOU'RE BORN FOR A PURPOSE.
AND THAT'S WHAT THE YOUTH LEADER WAS SAYING THAT NIGHT.
AND ME AND ANOTHER GUY, JUST THAT NIGHT,
I REMEMBER I WAS JUST GOING FORWARD
AND I DIDN'T REALLY KNOW WHAT I WAS SAYING YES TO,
BUT GOD ENCOUNTERED ME THAT NIGHT
RATHER THAN ME ENCOUNTERING HIM.
HE ENCOUNTERED ME,
AND I'VE BEEN DIFFERENT EVER SINCE.
I MEAN, I'VE HAD LOTS OF UPS AND DOWNS ALONG THE WAY,
BUT WHAT WAS AMAZING FROM THEN -
AND I THINK THIS IS WHY I'M SUCH A LOCAL CHURCH GIRL -
I'LL ALWAYS DEFEND THE CHURCH.
I LOVE THE CHURCH.
BECAUSE THEN TWO WOMEN, THE MUSIC MINISTER
AND A WOMAN WHO USED TO LOOK AFTER CHOIR,
THEY JUST DISCIPLED ME.
THEY DIDN'T ASK ME TO SING.
THEY DIDN'T ASK ME TO PERFORM.
THEY JUST LOVED ME TO CHRIST.
HAD ME AT THEIR TABLE, IN THEIR HOMES.
I WAS AT EVERY REHEARSAL, EVEN IF, YOU KNOW,
I WASN'T DOING ANYTHING.
I WAS JUST HUNGRY TO BELONG TO THE FAMILY OF GOD.
I MEAN, I'M SO THANKFUL.
BETH AND DESLIE WERE THEIR NAMES
AND I'M FOREVER GRATEFUL TO BOTH OF THEM
FOR LOVING ME TO LIFE IN CHRIST
RATHER THAN JUST THE DOING.
THEY HELPED ME UNDERSTAND THE BEING.
YOU KNOW, I LIVE AND MOVE
AND HAVE MY BEING IN CHRIST.
AND THEY TAUGHT ME THAT AND IT'S BEEN AMAZING.
SO, WHAT A JOURNEY.
SO THAT DISCIPLESHIP WAS FOUNDATIONAL
ABSOLUTELY.
IN YOUR FAITH?
YEAH.
AND I DIDN'T ACTUALLY SING IN CHURCH MUCH.
I JOINED A BAND THAT WE JUST MINISTERED
IN HIGH SCHOOLS AND YOUTH GROUPS.
LIKE, I JUST WANTED TO DO ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
AND A GUY AUDITIONED TO BE THE DRUMMER,
WHO HAPPENS TO BE MARK ZSCHECH, WHO -
OH!
YEAH.
IT'S VERY TYPICAL, THE LEAD SINGER AND THE DRUMMER
GET TOGETHER. BOOM.
WE GOT MARRIED WHEN WE WERE 19.
AND HE WAS LIVING OUT OF HOME AS WELL,
REALLY YOUNG, SO WE WERE QUITE INDEPENDENT.
I MEAN, WE WERE FINANCIALLY INDEPENDENT ALREADY.
AND WE GOT MARRIED
AND WE JUST CELEBRATED 40 YEARS OF MARRIAGE.
40 YEARS.
YEAH, 40 YEARS.
WE HAVE THREE DAUGHTERS, THREE SON-IN-LOVES,
SIX GRANDCHILDREN.
FOUR GRANDDAUGHTERS, TWO GRANDSONS.
AND, YEAH, IT'S LIKE WILD.
SO MY GOAL, REBECCA,
WAS NEVER TO LIKE BE A WORSHIP LEADER.
MY GOAL WAS, AND IS, TO SERVE JESUS
JUST WITH WHATEVER IS NEEDED.
AND THAT ADVENTURE HAS HAD US ON
THE MOST AMAZING, SOMETIMES TOUGH,
BUT AMAZING ADVENTURE.
AND, YOU KNOW, MY HUSBAND SAYS,
YOU DON'T WANT TO HAVE, LIKE, A WELL-PLANNED JOURNEY.
YOU WANT TO GO ON THE GOD ADVENTURE,
WHICH REQUIRES FAITH.
AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE STILL DOING
ALL THESE YEARS LATER.
AND NOW WE PASTOR HOPE UC,
AND IT'S A REALLY BEAUTIFUL SEASON.
HOW LONG HAVE YOU GUYS BEEN PASTORING FOR NOW?
14 YEARS.
MAN.
I KNOW, RIGHT.
IT'S GONE SO FAST.
WOW, THAT'S SO - THERE'S SO MANY THINGS
I WANT TO GET INTO.
SO, LET ME START OFF WITH,
BECAUSE YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE JOURNEY OF FAITH,
AND THE THING IS THAT
NOT MANY PEOPLE FULLY SAY YES TO GOD
AND FULLY SURRENDER.
YEAH.
AND WHEN YOU DO, YOU CAN GO ON A JOURNEY
THAT YOU DON'T KNOW.
I LOVE THAT VERSE IN THE BIBLE,
IT SAYS THAT ABRAHAM WENT OUT
NOT KNOWING WHERE HE WAS GOING,
BUT GOD TOLD HIM TO GO.
YEAH.
AND HE UNFOLDED IT ALONG THE WAY.
AND A LOT OF TIMES THOSE OF US WHO SAY YES,
WE DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THE FUTURE HOLDS.
BUT WE KNOW THAT WE'RE GOING TO GIVE GOD OUR YES.
YEAH.
AND THAT'S THAT WORD, HANANI, IN GENESIS,
WHEN ABRAHAM ANSWERS GOD WHEN GOD CALLS HIM,
AND HE SAYS, YES, LORD.
BUT ACTUALLY IT MEANS HANANI, WHICH MEANS BEFORE I KNOW
WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO ASK, GOD,
MY ANSWER IS YES.
SO IT'S NOT JUST A WHIMSICAL
SURE THING, LET'S GO.
IT'S LIKE, IT'S WORSHIP BECAUSE STRAIGHT AFTER,
THE NEXT SENTENCE SAYS,
AND GOD SAYS NOW TAKE YOUR SON,
YOUR ONLY SON,
AND WE GO ON A JOURNEY TO WORSHIP.
AND WE KNOW ABRAHAM AND ISAAC.
WE KNOW HOW THAT ALL FOLDS OUT,
BUT IT'S LIKE,
OKAY, OUR YES AND YIELDING,
WE'VE GOTTA KNOW THAT WE'RE TRUSTING IN A GOOD GOD
THAT LOVES US AND KNOWS WHAT'S BEST FOR US.
EVEN WHEN IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.
IT NEVER MAKES SENSE.
I DON'T THINK IT EVER MAKES SENSE.
I'M LIKE, OH, MY GOODNESS.
I MEAN, AND THOSE TIMES,
IT GIVES OUR FAITH A JOB, RIGHT?
OTHERWISE, IT'S ALL A LITTLE BIT...
PRACTICAL.
YEAH, IT'S NOT REALLY FAITH.
NO, IT'S JUST COMMON SENSE.
BUT FAITH GIVES US THE ABILITY
TO LEAP INTO THE UNKNOWN,
KNOWING THAT THE SAFE HANDS OF GOD ARE THERE.
ALWAYS.
ALWAYS, EVEN IF WE JUMP IN THE WRONG DIRECTION.
HE'S A GOOD DAD.
HE'S GOING TO BE THERE.
HE'S GOOD AT GETTING US BACK ON TRACK.
OH, YOU KNOW IT.
I USED TO BE SO AFRAID OF LIKE
MAKING THE WRONG DECISION.
ME, TOO.
REALLY?
ME, TOO.
I REMEMBER SOMEONE GAVE ME COUNSEL
AND THEY'RE LIKE, IT'S LIKE A GPS.
IF YOU GO OFF, GOD CAN GET YOU BACK ON.
YEAH.
AND THAT BROUGHT ME SUCH A SENSE OF RELIEF
BECAUSE WHEN YOU START TO SEE GOD AS A GOOD FATHER,
THAT'S, FOR ME, WHEN FAITH REALLY ACTUALLY CLICKED.
WOW.
IS WHEN I BEGAN TO UNDERSTAND
GOD IS A GOOD FATHER,
MY HEART COULD BELIEVE.
YEAH.
AND TRUST.
BECAUSE FAITH AND TRUST, THEY GO HAND IN HAND.
HAND IN HAND.
I THINK THAT'S MY BIGGEST THING GETTING OLDER.
I'M LIKE, OH, THIS FAITH JOURNEY
IS A TRUST JOURNEY.
TRUSTING IN THE CHARACTER OF GOD,
NOT IN MYSELF, BUT THE CHARACTER OF GOD.
YEP, NOT IN YOURSELF.
YEAH.
THAT'S WHEN IT'S REALLY - WHEN YOU'RE IN A PLACE
WHERE THERE'S NOTHING YOU CAN DO
EXCEPT TRUST HIM.
YEAH.
BUT EVERY TIME I'VE BEEN IN THAT SCENARIO,
HE'S ALWAYS SHOWN UP FOR ME.
YEAH.
SO I'VE LEARNED IT HELPS ME GET THAT MUSCLE
MORE DEVELOPED LIKE, OKAY, I CAN TRUST YOU.
THAT'S BEAUTIFUL. THAT'S BEAUTIFUL.
YEAH. I WANT TO GET INTO
THE TOPIC OF WORSHIP BECAUSE YOU HAVE BEEN
A WORSHIP LEADER FOR SO MANY YEARS,
BUT YOU TOUCHED ON SUCH AN IMPORTANT TOPIC,
WHICH IS WORSHIP IS MORE THAN JUST MUSIC.
CAN YOU TALK ABOUT,
WHAT IS WORSHIP TO YOU?
YEAH.
WELL, I MEAN, I THINK TO HUMANITY
IT'S LIKE, FIRST AND FOREMOST,
IT'S OUR RESPONSE TO AN ENCOUNTER WITH GOD.
IT'S LIKE MY RIGHTFUL WORSHIP,
MY RIGHTFUL THING TO DO HERE,
IS LIKE TO BRING ALL OF MY LIFE BEFORE YOU
AS A THANK YOU, AS A CONTINUED, LIKE,
HALLELUJAH BEFORE GOD.
AND, YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT WORSHIP
WHEN I GOT SAVED. NOTHING.
IT'S LIKE, WHAT IS WORSHIP?
I REMEMBER BEING IN CHURCH AND HEARING
THE CHURCH SING, BUT I'M LIKE, OKAY,
EVERY AGE IS HERE AND THEY'RE ALL SINGING
THIS SAME SONG,
BUT MY RESPONSE TO BEING SAVED WAS SERVICE.
YOU KNOW, I'M LIKE WHAT CAN I DO TO HELP?
WHAT CAN I DO?
AND AS I GOT OLDER,
I UNDERSTOOD THIS WORD, AVODAH,
WHICH IS TO WORSHIP, WORK AND SERVE.
WHICH IS, YOU KNOW,
LET MY PEOPLE GO THAT THEY MAY AVODAH ME:
WORSHIP, WORK AND SERVE.
YOU KNOW, ROMANS 12,
BRING YOUR LIFE AS A SPIRITUAL ACT OF WORSHIP.
BUT THEN GOD GIVES US
THIS LITTLE TASTE OF HEAVEN ON EARTH
THROUGH MUSIC AND SONG, WHICH I THINK
YOU KNOW, MUSIC HELPS RELEASE THE SONG
OR THE CRY, THE PRAYERS.
IT'S ALMOST INDESCRIBABLE WHAT HAPPENS
IN OUR HEARTS,
AND YET GOD GIVES US THIS SONG,
THIS WAY TO BRING HIM GLORY
WHILE WE'RE HERE ON THE EARTH.
AND, YOU KNOW, TO BE INVOLVED WITH THAT AT ALL
IS SUCH -
I DON'T KNOW WHAT EVEN TO SAY.
I FEEL SO HUMBLED BY IT.
I FEEL A SENSE OF RESPONSIBILITY.
AND IT IS MY GREATEST JOY, AND WEAPON, REALLY,
TO COME BEFORE GOD WITH THIS SONG,
WHETHER LIFE IS GOOD OR LIFE IS REALLY TOUGH.
AND I'M LIKE, YEAH, WITH THE HIGH PRAISES OF GOD
IN OUR MOUTHS, RIGHT,
A TWO-EDGED SWORD IN OUR HAND
IS LIKE, GOD, THANK YOU FOR THIS GIFT OF WORSHIP.
I'M VERY AWARE THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S ONLY
TWO THINGS, REALLY, IN HEAVEN
THAT HAPPEN HERE ON EARTH.
ONE IS PEOPLE, AND THE OTHER IS WORSHIP.
SO WE GET THIS LITTLE PIECE OF HEAVEN ON EARTH
WHEN WE GET TO ENTER HIS PRESENCE,
ENTER THE DEEP COURTS OF GOD
AND HONOR HIM FOR WHO HE IS.
AND THAT IS MY COMPLETE JOY.
AND...YEAH.
I'M ALWAYS WITHOUT WORDS AROUND IT BECAUSE -
IT'S HARD TO DESCRIBE.
IT IS. IT IS.
I LOVE THE WAY YOU DESCRIBED IT AS A TASTE OF HEAVEN.
AND WHEN WE WORSHIP HIM,
SO HIS PRESENCE COMES
SO WE GET TO ENCOUNTER HIM THERE.
AND I LOVE - I LOVE WORSHIP MUSIC.
I THINK IT'S BEEN ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT,
THROUGH MY WHOLE LIFE, THROUGH THE GOOD AND THE BAD,
IT'S A GROUNDING THING THAT HELPS US CONNECT TO GOD.
I'VE USED WORSHIP ALWAYS, I THINK ALMOST ALWAYS,
IN MY QUIET TIMES.
YEAH.
THERE IS JUST SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
AND I LOVE MUSIC.
AND I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, WE FORGET THAT WE'RE MADE
IN THE IMAGE OF GOD AND GOD IS A CREATOR.
SO WHEN WE CREATE ART, MUSIC, THINGS OURSELVES,
THAT IS ACTUALLY US OPERATING IN THAT IMAGO DEI.
THAT IS SO BEAUTIFUL.
SO IT'S SUCH A GREAT WAY TO EXPRESS THE IMAGE OF GOD
THAT IS WITHIN US.
YEAH.
SO I THINK WORSHIP IS SUCH A POWERFUL THING.
ABSOLUTELY.
AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT SETS US APART AS HUMANS,
YOU KNOW, FROM THE REST OF CREATION,
THAT HE GAVE US THE ABILITY TO CREATE.
YES.
BUT I LOVE WORSHIP MUSIC.
AND I WANT TO GET INTO YOUR STORY
OF HOW YOU BECAME A WORSHIP LEADER.
SO YOU HAD THIS MUSIC BACKGROUND.
I HAD A MUSIC BACKGROUND, YEAH.
HOW DID YOU GET INTO THE CHURCH WITH SINGING?
TO BE HONEST, I DIDN'T WANT TO.
REALLY, WHY?
BECAUSE I REMEMBER MY HUSBAND AND I,
ONCE WE GOT MARRIED WE WENT TO SERVE
IN THIS BEAUTIFUL, LITTLE LOCAL CHURCH.
AND I TOOK MY ELECTRIC KEYBOARD IN, RIGHT.
I'M LIKE, WOO-HOO I'M ON THE WORSHIP TEAM.
AND IN THOSE DAYS, THE ELDERS -
ONE OF THE ELDERS SAID,
IF YOU PLAY THAT DEVIL'S INSTRUMENT
IN THIS CHURCH, RIGHT,
NOT THE ELECTRIC KEYBOARD!
THE ELECTRIC KEYBOARD, YOU KNOW.
SORRY.
HEAVEN, HELP US, IF WE BROUGHT THE GUITAR, YOU KNOW.
ANYWAY, YEAH, IT SEEMS RIDICULOUS NOW,
BUT I REMEMBER AT THE TIME GOING,
I SO NEVER WANT TO BE INVOLVED IN
CHURCH WORSHIP OR MUSIC.
LET'S JUST DO YOUTH
BECAUSE IT'S MORE FUN AND YOU CAN HAVE
YOU KNOW, MORE FREEDOM.
AND THEN WHEN WE MOVED TO SYDNEY,
WE ASKED IF WE COULD BE INVOLVED IN YOUTH MUSIC,
YOUTH WORSHIP.
AND OUR PASTOR SAID,
I REALLY NEED SOMEONE ELSE IN MUSIC.
WE'VE GOT PEOPLE IN YOUTH.
WE DON'T NEED THAT.
THIS IS WHAT WE NEED.
AND, YOU KNOW, PART OF OUR LIFE, RIGHT,
IS JUST, WELL, WHATEVER IS NEEDED.
NOT MY AGENDA.
YOUR WILL, GOD, NOT MINE.
SO ALL RIGHT.
SO MARK AND I JUST WENT AND SERVED IN THE -
IT WAS CALLED THE MUSIC DEPARTMENT THEN,
NOT THE WORSHIP DEPARTMENT,
BUT ANYWAY.
AND SO I WOULD DO CHOIRS, AND I LOVE THE BACKGROUND.
I LOVE ARRANGEMENTS.
I LOVE PRODUCING.
SO YOU'RE DOING LIKE EVERYTHING?
I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE, LOVE, LOVE LOVE.
THAT'S SO COOL, THE CREATIVE.
YEAH, LOVE, LOVE, LOVE.
AND OUR PASTOR HAD ASKED ME TO LEAD WORSHIP MANY TIMES
AND I'D SAID NO WAY.
I JUST FELT LIKE THE SPIRITUAL RESPONSIBILITY
WAS TOO MUCH.
I'M LIKE, I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING.
I NEED TO KNOW MORE.
I NEED TO KNOW WHY I'M DOING WHAT I'M DOING.
BUT I LOVE THAT YOU TOOK IT SERIOUSLY.
OH, YEAH.
WELL, IT IS, YOU KNOW.
IT'S NOT A GENRE OF MUSIC, RIGHT.
IT'S NOT - YOU CAN'T MINIMIZE WORSHIP
TO THOSE THINGS THAT I THINK WORLDLY STANDARDS
TRY AND PUT OVER THE TOP OF WORSHIP.
THAT'S NOT WHAT IT IS.
BUT THERE WAS ONE DAY
WHEN ALL THE OTHER WORSHIP LEADERS
WERE OUT OF TOWN AND I REMEMBER OUR PASTOR
WAS LEADING WORSHIP,
AND REMEMBER, THEY USED TO LEAD WORSHIP -
YES.
LOOKED LIKE THEY WERE BRINGING A PLANE IN, YOU KNOW.
IT'S LIKE THIS WAY, THAT WAY.
AND HE JUST WALKED OFF AND HE LIKE
LOOKED AT ME AND HE WENT...
SO I WENT OUT AND LED.
AND I'M REALLY THANKFUL FOR THAT
BECAUSE I NEVER WOULD HAVE
STEPPED IN THAT SPOT MYSELF.
BUT THEN I'VE ALWAYS HAD THE SAFETY OF LIKE,
I'M A TEAM PERSON.
SO I NEVER THINK THE WORSHIP LEADER.
I'M ALWAYS LIKE, WE, TOGETHER, ARE LEADING,
AND, YES, SOMEONE IS TAKING THE LEAD,
AND OFTEN IT'S THE WORSHIP LEADER,
BUT WE DO THIS TOGETHER.
YOU KNOW, WITH A TEAM OF
OTHER MUSICIANS, SINGERS, WHATEVER.
AND THAT'S HOW I STARTED.
AND, YOU KNOW, I USED TO SIT WITH MY GIRLFRIEND
WITH A PIECE OF PAPER,
AND SHE WAS A PREACHER AND I'M LIKE,
HOW DOES THIS SOUND, I'D SAY TO HER.
GOOD MORNING, CHURCH.
I'M SO GLAD YOU'RE HERE.
LET'S WORSHIP JESUS.
AND SHE'D BE LIKE, SERIOUSLY,
YOU NEED TO WRITE THAT OUT?
AND I'M LIKE, YEAH, I DO.
BECAUSE I WAS JUST SO NOT CONFIDENT
TO LEAD PEOPLE TO CHRIST.
BECAUSE IN THE END,
THAT'S WHAT WORSHIP IS DOING, RIGHT,
WE'RE HELPING REMOVE THE BARRIERS.
WE'RE HELPING GIVE PEOPLE A SONG IN THEIR HEART.
WE'RE HELPING THEM SEE CHRIST
AND WE'RE GATHERING AROUND THE PRESENCE
AND THE PERSON OF JESUS.
I WAS JUST SO, LIKE, I DON'T WANT TO MESS IT UP,
I DON'T WANT TO GET IN THE WAY.
YEAH, I UNDERSTAND THAT.
SO, YEAH.
SO, YOU KNOW, I SPENT YEARS AND YEARS LIKE PRACTICING
HOW I WOULD SAY ANYTHING OF VALUE TO OUR CHURCH FAMILY
IN BETWEEN SONGS OR, YEAH.
SO GOD TOOK ME AND IS STILL TAKING ME
ON AN AMAZING JOURNEY OF LEARNING, UNLEARNING.
YOU KNOW, BECAUSE I HAD A BACKGROUND IN MUSIC,
I WAS SCARED THAT THE PERFORMER IN ME
WOULD KIND OF FLIP INTO GEAR.
BECAUSE GOD HAD SAID TO ME,
YOU NEVER NEED TO PERFORM FOR ME.
YOU'VE BEEN BOUGHT WITH A PRICE.
YOU'RE NOT FOR SALE.
YOU JUST COME AND BE.
YOU JUST COME AND BRING YOU BEFORE ME.
THAT'S ALL I'M ASKING.
AND IT TOOK ALL THAT SENSE OF
STRIVING TO GET EVERYTHING RIGHT,
AND ALL OF THAT,
HE JUST CONTINUED TO HELP ME UNLEARN
SO THAT I COULD LEARN THE WAYS OF GOD.
I LOVE THAT.
YEAH.
YEAH, BECAUSE YOU CAN'T STRIVE.
NO.
BUT THAT'S REALLY HARD -
AND YOU DO.
[ LAUGHTER ]
IT'S SO EASY TO SAY IT, BUT IT'S HARDER
TO ACTUALLY IMPLEMENT IT.
YEAH.
AND I THINK PART OF STRIVING IS -
PART OF NOT STRIVING IS, ONCE AGAIN,
GOING BACK TO TRUSTING.
TO TRUST. IT IS.
SO THERE'S - THERE'S LIKE THIS BALANCE, RIGHT,
YOU PREPARE
AND YOU DO THINGS WITH EXCELLENCE.
YEAH.
BUT YOU'RE NOT DOING IT IN YOUR STRENGTH.
THAT'S RIGHT.
AND YOU KNOW THAT IT'S NOT YOU.
YEAH.
IT'S HIM THROUGH YOU.
THROUGH YOU.
AND SO YOU CAN RELAX IN HIM,
BECAUSE YOU KNOW THAT HE'S THERE.
YOU CAN RELY ON HIM TO DO HIS PART.
AND TO LEAD YOU.
YOU KNOW, TO ALLOW THE HOLY SPIRIT
TO REALLY LEAD YOU.
I DO THINK, YOU KNOW,
THERE'S SOMETHING BEAUTIFUL
ABOUT PREPARATION, RIGHT.
WE READ ALL THROUGH THE SCRIPTURE
ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF PREPARATION,
OLD TESTAMENT AND NEW.
I MEAN, I LOVE OLD TESTAMENT, AND WE READ ABOUT
THE LEVITES AND THE PREPARATION
FOR THE GLORY OF GOD IS SO STUNNING.
SO I DO THINK, YOU KNOW, WE CAN BE A BIT LAX NOW.
YOU KNOW, PEOPLE GO TOTALLY THE OTHER WAY.
YEAH.
AND I WOULD CALL IT CARELESS WORSHIP.
IT'S LIKE YOU SAY, OH, WHATEVER.
SO NO, NO.
NO, WE DON'T COME BEFORE GOD WITH WHATEVER.
WE COME BEFORE GOD, YOU KNOW,
WITH HUMBLE HEARTS, GRATEFUL HEARTS,
AND WITH OUR FINEST THAT WE HAVE IN THE DAY,
EVEN IF IT'S A WEAK MOMENT.
YOU KNOW, IN MY WEAKNESS HIS STRENGTH IS MADE PERFECT.
SO IT'S LIKE HE'S NOT AFTER ANY PERFORMANCE,
BUT HE'S LIKE, JUST BRING YOUR BEST NOW,
BUT PREPARATION, YOU'LL ALWAYS SEE WHAT YOU VALUE
WHEN YOU LOOK AT HOW MUCH TIME YOU TAKE TO PREPARE FOR IT.
AND THERE'S NO ONE WORTH PREPARING MORE FOR THAN HIM.
YOU GOT IT. YOU GOT IT.
BUT THAT'S THAT KEY, IS THAT YOU DON'T DO IT
IN YOUR STRENGTH, YOU DO IT IN HIS STRENGTH.
YEAH. AND YOU DON'T DO IT FOR YOUR GLORY,
YOU DO IT FOR HIS GLORY.
I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS
THAT IS EASY TO FALL INTO.
YEAH.
UNINTENTIONALLY -
A HUNDRED PERCENT.
THAT YOU START LEADING WORSHIP,
YOU START MINISTERING.
AND I THINK IT'S EASY TO TAKE A LITTLE BIT OF THAT GLORY
AND POCKET IT FOR YOURSELF.
YEAH, YEAH.
AND YOU HAVE TO BE SO CAREFUL
NOT TO DO THAT, AND EVEN WITH BUILDING THE KINGDOM.
YEAH.
ARE YOU BUILDING HIS KINGDOM,
OR ARE YOU BUILDING YOUR KINGDOM?
THAT'S RIGHT.
HOW WOULD YOU -
WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO SOMEONE IN THAT SCENARIO?
LOOK, I THINK ONE OF THE REASONS
GOD SETS US IN FAMILY, IN COMMUNITY,
IS THAT WE KEEP EACH OTHER ACCOUNTABLE.
YOU KNOW, BUT WHEN YOU -
I MEAN, SOMETHING THAT SUCCESS DOES
THAT PEOPLE DON'T TALK ABOUT
IN WHATEVER WAY YOU SEE SUCCESS,
BUT LET'S SAY IT'S PEOPLE PUTTING YOU
ON SOME SORT OF PEDESTAL,
WHETHER THAT'S FOR RIGHT REASONS OR WRONG REASONS,
BUT SUCCESS SEPARATES YOU.
PEOPLE JUST THINK, OH, THEY'RE SUCCESSFUL,
SO I'LL JUST LEAVE THEM ALONE.
SO WHETHER YOU WANT TO OR NOT, YOU FIND YOURSELF
A LITTLE MORE ISOLATED.
AND ISOLATION FEEDS ALL THE WRONG THINGS IN US,
LIKE THE INSECURITY AND THE PRIDE.
IT FEEDS ALL OF IT.
SO THE BEAUTY OF CHURCH FAMILY, COMMUNITY,
BREAKING BREAD TOGETHER, THE SACREDNESS OF THE TABLE,
WHERE I SEE YOU, YOU SEE ME,
I CAN CHECK IN HOW YOU'RE REALLY DOING.
ALL OF THAT IS -
GOD SET THAT IN PLACE
SO THAT WE WOULD - WE NEED ONE ANOTHER
TO KEEP EACH OTHER FLOWING WELL
IN CHRIST THE WAY HE INTENDED.
BEING SUCCESSFUL, INFLUENTIAL, ALL THOSE THINGS,
I THINK ARE IMPORTANT
BECAUSE WE'VE GOT A WORLD
THAT'S CRYING OUT FOR A HEALTHY MODEL
OF WHAT FOLLOWING JESUS LOOKS LIKE.
AND WE NEED PEOPLE IN THE HIGHEST LEVELS OF LIFE,
BUT WE STILL NEED COMMUNITY.
SO WE DON'T GET BIG HEADS AND TAKE IT
ALL ON OURSELVES, AND AREN'T WE WONDERFUL.
BECAUSE THAT'S - I'VE HEARD IT SAID THAT
YOU KNOW, ONCE YOU START TO INGEST GLORY,
THAT IT'S NOT A MATTER OF IF,
IT'S JUST A MATTER OF WHEN
YOU WILL BLOW UP.
AND THAT'S ACTUALLY CHRISTIAN, NON-CHRISTIAN,
THAT'S HUMANITY.
WE NEED EACH OTHER.
WE REALLY - AND AS THE WORLD GETS MORE CHAOTIC,
WHICH IT WILL, ISAIAH TELLS US
THAT WE'RE TO SHINE IN THE DARK.
IT WILL GET EVEN DARKER, BUT THE GLORY OF THE LORD
HAS RISEN UPON YOU.
AS THESE DAYS GET MORE TENSE,
WE NEED EACH OTHER.
THE CHURCH, THE BODY OF CHRIST, IN WHICH
HE LIVES AND MOVES AND FILLS EVERYTHING
WITH HIS PRESENCE.
AND THAT IS ALSO WHERE WE FIND THAT
KEEPING POWER OF GOD
AS HIS LOVE IS SHARED WITH EACH OF US
AND THROUGH EACH OF US WITH EACH OTHER.
WE KEEP EACH OTHER ACCOUNTABLE TO
THE PROMISES OF GOD, THE WORD OF GOD,
AND HIS CALL ON OUR LIVES.
WE DO NEED THAT COMMUNITY,
AND I THINK THAT'S WHY YOU SEE
HOW THE ENEMY OPERATES IN THE BODY,
IS BY CAUSING DIVISION.
YEAH.
HE WANTS THERE TO BE DIVISION.
HE WANTS US TO FIGHT ONE ANOTHER
AND I THINK -
FIGHT THE WRONG FIGHTS.
COME ON, PEOPLE.
THERE IS A REAL FIGHT HERE.
THERE IS A REAL FIGHT.
LET'S GET ABOUT THE REAL THINGS
AND LET'S GET OVER OURSELVES A LITTLE BIT.
THAT'S SO GOOD.
BECAUSE I CAN LOVE SOMEONE AND NOT AGREE WITH THEM.
IT'S TRUE.
THAT'S THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.
THAT'S PART OF THE FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT.
I CAN LOVE YOU AND NOT AGREE WITH YOU,
BUT I'M GOING TO WALK WITH YOU
BECAUSE YOU'RE MY BROTHER OR YOU'RE MY SISTER,
AND WE'RE GOING TO DO THIS TOGETHER.
I WANT MORE - I WANT MORE OF THAT.
YEAH.
AND I THINK, TOO, YOU CAN'T HAVE
A COMMUNITY OF PEOPLE,
YOU CAN'T HAVE A BUNCH OF YES PEOPLE AROUND YOU.
OH, MY GOD.
'CAUSE THAT'S THE OTHER PROBLEM I SEE,
IS PEOPLE BEING A COMMUNITY,
BUT NO ONE'S GOING TO QUESTION YOU.
YEAH, YEAH.
BUT THEN THERE'S ALSO PEOPLE WHO GO ABOUT
THAT THE WRONG WAY,
WHEN THEY CHALLENGE AND THEY'RE, YOU KNOW,
THEY'RE DISRESPECTFUL TO AUTHORITY.
RIGHT.
SO THERE'S A KINGDOM WAY.
THERE IS A KINGDOM WAY AND WE'VE GOT TO LEARN IT
BECAUSE THERE IS AN URGENCY IN THE HOUR.
THERE IS. WE'RE LIVING IN THOSE TIMES.
YES.
AND SO WE HAVE TO GET ABOUT THE KINGDOM WAY.
AND OFTEN, I WOULD SAY, AS I'M GETTING OLDER,
YOU KNOW, AND I PRAY INTO CERTAIN THINGS
AND THE LORD'S LIKE,
LET'S JUST LOOK AT YOU AGAIN.
THAT'S WHAT I -
LET ME DEAL WITH
THIS THING IN YOU, AND I'M LIKE, OH.
YEAH.
WASN'T I PRAYING ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE?
HE'S LIKE, YES.
AND NOW LET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR HEART,
LIKE, LET'S - WE'VE GOT TO LOOK
AT THE, YOU KNOW, LOGS IN OUR OWN EYES,
AND JUST LIKE, LORD, HELP ME LOVE LIKE YOU LOVE.
HELP ME BRING -
BE A BRINGER OF TRUTH,
BUT TRUTH IN LOVE.
AND THAT TOGETHER IS A VERY POWERFUL COMBINATION
AND IT'S GOTTA BE BOTH.
IT'S GOTTA BE BOTH, HONEY.
BECAUSE THE TRUTH WITH NO LOVE
IS JUST PAINFUL.
YEAH.
AND I DON'T THINK REALLY THERE IS LOVE
IF THERE'S NOT TRUTH INVOLVED.
YOU GOT IT RIGHT, YEAH.
SO YOU'RE PUTTING OUT A NEW CD, IT'S RELEASED,
BUT YOU'RE STILL RELEASING SOME SONGS.
I AM.
IT'S BEEN AMAZING.
I WANT TO HEAR THE STORY BEHIND
WHAT INSPIRED THAT CD.
YEAH.
WELL,SHOUT TO THE LORD WAS TURNING 30 YEARS OLD.
CAN YOU EVEN -
THE BEST - I'M SORRY, BUT I'M A '90S BABY,
ONE OF THE BEST SONGS EVER, STILL.
I JUST THINK ANY CHRISTIAN, WE CAN BAT THAT OUT.
I LOVESHOUT TO THE LORD.
OH, WELL, YOU KNOW, IT WAS REALLY INTERESTING
BECAUSE MY SON-IN-LAW,
HE'S MARRIED TO MY OLDEST DAUGHTER, AMY,
HIS NAME'S ANDREW. WE CALL HIMHOODIE.
AND HE'S LIKE, WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING
TO CELEBRATE THESE 30 YEARS.
AND THEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT IT,
AND HOW THIS WORD,TESTAMENT,
YOU KNOW, IT'S MORE THAN JUST A WORD.
IT'S GOT A LEGAL RAMIFICATION TO IT.
IT'S LIKE THESE WORDS, THIS THING THAT IT IS DONE.
IT IS FINISHED.
THIS IS THE FINAL WILL AND TESTAMENT.
IT'S LIKE IT'S SET IN STONE.
AND I'M LIKE, THAT'S GOD'S FAITHFULNESS
OVER MY LIFE.
THAT'S HOW I FEEL.
I'M LIKE, HIS PROMISES HAVE BEEN SO RIDICULOUSLY,
JUST SET IN STONE.
AND I WANTED THIS PROJECT TO BE
LIKE A TESTAMENT TO THE FAITHFULNESS OF GOD
OVER MY LIFETIME.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, IT WAS HARD TO PICK 30 SONGS
AND EVEN AT LIKE 20 SONGS,
WHEN I'VE BEEN WORKING ON THEM,
I'M LIKE, 30 IS A LOT.
BUT WE'VE DONE IT
AND I'M REALLY -
I'M REALLY GLAD.
IT'S LIKE A LEGACY PROJECT FOR ME.
I LOVE THAT.
YEAH.
AND I - IT'S JUST TO THE GLORY OF GOD
FOR HIS FAITHFULNESS OVER MY LIFETIME.
I'M JUST - I AM JUST SO VERY THANKFUL.
WHAT WAS IT LIKE REVISITING SOME OF THOSE SONGS?
YEAH, IT WAS REALLY, REALLY SPECIAL
BECAUSE SOME OF THEM,
WELL, ALL OF THEM, HAVE A MOMENT.
YEAH.
A SCRIPTURE.
AND MUSIC WILL TAKE YOU BACK TO A TIME INSTANTANEOUSLY.
IT DOES. IT DOES.
SO IT'S ACTUALLY BEEN - THERE'S BEEN SO MUCH
JOY ATTACHED.
AND,SHOUT TO THE LORD,
MY DAUGHTER, ZOE, IS LEADING WITH ME.
WE HAVE THE AUSTRALIAN CHRISTIAN ORCHESTRA.
I LOVE THAT.
ANDTESTAMENT WAS WRITTEN BY MYSELF,
WITH AMY AND ANDREW, MY OLDEST DAUGHTER.
LIKE, MY GRANDDAUGHTER IS SINGING IN THE CHOIR.
IT'S A BEAUTIFUL REFLECTION
OF JUST THE FAITHFULNESS OF GOD.
YOU KNOW, WHEN I'M FAITHLESS, HE'S STILL FAITHFUL.
WHEN I, YOU KNOW, I WENT THROUGH THAT TERRIBLE
TIME OF CANCER AND THERE'S A SONG IN THERE
THAT I DO WITH MARTIN SMITH,
THAT WHEN I WAS REALLY SICK, YOU KNOW,
AND HE FLEW OVER JUST TO BE WITH MY FAMILY,
BE WITH MY HUSBAND.
YOU KNOW, I ALMOST DIED TWICE, NOT FROM THE CANCER
BUT FROM THE TREATMENT.
AND HE'S LIKE, DARS, WHAT WOULD YOU WANT TO SAY?
BECAUSE WE WERE FACING LIFE AND DEATH,
AND WHAT DO YOU WANT TO SAY?
AND, YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHAT OTHER WRITERS DO, RIGHT,
THEY HELP YOU PULL A SONG OUT.
AND I'M LIKE, I JUST WANT TO SAY GOD IS GREAT.
SO WE WROTE A SONG, YOU ARE GREAT.
AND HE SINGS IT WITH ME ON THIS PROJECT.
SO THERE'S BEAUTIFUL MOMENTS WITH MICHAEL W.
AND MITCH WONG,
WHO IS JUST THE MOST AMAZING SONGWRITER.
I MEAN, SO JUST THESE LITTLE GLIMPSES
OF THE GLORY OF GOD, HIS FAITHFULNESS.
AND IT'S JUST MY JOY TO BRING IT TO THE TABLE
AND I PRAY IT BLESSES PEOPLE.
AND I PRAY THAT IT REMINDS EVERYONE WHO LISTENS TO IT
OF GOD'S FAITHFULNESS TO YOU.
THAT'S MY DEEPEST PRAYER.
BECAUSE I THINK ONCE YOU REMEMBER THE STORIES,
YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE THE STONES.
YEAH.
ONCE YOU REMEMBER THE STORIES,
IT GIVES YOU SOME TENACITY IN YOUR SPIRIT.
IT'S LIKE, OH, THAT'S RIGHT.
HE'S DONE IT BEFORE, HE'LL DO IT AGAIN.
LET'S GO.
SO, YEAH, THAT'S TESTAMENT.
YEAH, BECAUSE YOUR LIFE IS A LIVING TESTIMONY
OF HIS FAITHFULNESS.
IT REALLY IS.
AND THEY OVERCAME BY THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB
AND THE WORD OF OUR TESTIMONY.
SO FOR ME, THESE SONGS ARE EXACTLY THAT.
SOME PEOPLE WILL DESIGN
A BEAUTIFUL PIECE OF ARCHITECTURE.
SOME PEOPLE WILL PAINT A BEAUTIFUL PAINTING.
YOU KNOW, I'LL WRITE A LITTLE SONG.
WHAT A BEAUTIFUL LEGACY PROJECT.
YEAH.
OKAY. SO FOR PEOPLE -
WE'RE OUT OF TIME.
I'M VERY SAD.
I LOVE TALKING TO YOU.
WE COULD TALK FOR HOURS,
SO MUCH TO TALK ABOUT.
SUCH A BEAUTIFUL PERSON INSIDE AND OUT.
THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.
THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
I'M REALLY BLESSED.
OH, I FEEL LIKE I'M THE ONE THAT'S BLESSED.
FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT TO LISTEN TOTESTAMENT
YEAH.
HOW CAN THEY FIND IT?
JUST ON ALL THE NORMAL STREAMING THINGS,
YOU KNOW, JUST GO FOR IT.
YOU'LL FIND IT.
IT'S NOT A SHORT -
LISTEN, IT'S LIKE THREE,
OVER THREE HOURS OF WORSHIP. SO, YOU KNOW.
YEAH, I MEAN, 30 YEARS THAT YOU -
I THINK YOU DID IT PERFECTLY.
AWW, THANK YOU, DARLING.
BUT THANK YOU -
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.
THANK YOU FOR BEING A BLESSING
TO THE BODY OF CHRIST
AND WE JUST LOVE AND APPRECIATE YOU.
THANK YOU.