♪♪
REBECCA WEISS: HEY, EVERYONE,
WELCOME TO THE SHOW.
I'M SUPER EXCITED TODAY
BECAUSE WE HAVE PASTOR OF CELEBRATION CHURCH,
TIM TIMBERLAKE IN THE BUILDING.
PASTOR TIM TIMBERLAKE: OH, WHAT AN HONOR, REBECCA.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME ON THE PODCAST.
REBECCA: THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.
AND WE'RE GONNA BE TALKING ABOUT YOUR NEW BOOK,
THE ART OF OVERCOMING:
LETTING GOD TURN YOUR ENDINGS INTO BEGINNINGS.
PASTOR TIM: YES.
REBECCA: WHICH IS A BEAUTIFUL TITLE.
PASTOR TIM: THANK YOU.
REBECCA: SO, TAKE US BACK TO GROWING UP
AND YOU HAVING TO EXPERIENCE
YOUR OWN LOSS IN YOUR LIFE.
PASTOR TIM: YEAH.
SO, GROWING UP IN AND AROUND PARENTS
WHO ARE IN MINISTRY,
YOU GET THIS, YOU ARE CONSTANTLY
IN THE LIMELIGHT.
WE CALL IT THE FISHBOWL.
YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS WATCHING
AND PEOPLE ALWAYS HAVE AN OPINION.
AND SO GROWING UP AROUND CHURCH,
IN CHURCH,
ALWAYS KIND OF INVOLVED IN CHURCH IN SOME ASPECT,
YOUR PARENTS BECOME YOUR HEROES.
AND YOU GET AN OPPORTUNITY TO SEE
THE CALL OF GOD ON THEIR LIFE.
FROM KIND OF ITS INFANCY STAGES,
UNTIL YOU KNOW, THE REST OF THE WORLD SEES THEM.
AND I HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO GO ON THAT JOURNEY
WITH MY PARENTS,
KIND OF SEEING THEM GO FROM
NO ONE KNOWING WHO THEY ARE,
TO EVERYONE SEEMINGLY KNOWING WHO THEY ARE.
AND THE UPSIDE TO THAT IS,
YOU GET A CHANCE TO GO WITH PEOPLE ON A JOURNEY.
THE DOWNSIDE TO THAT IS
EVERYONE GETS AN OPPORTUNITY
WITH THEIR OPINION
TO JOURNEY WITH YOU,
EVEN IN THE STRUGGLES AND DIFFICULTIES OF LIFE.
AND IN 1997, MY FATHER WAS DIAGNOSED
WITH TERMINAL CANCER.
AND AS A RESULT OF THAT,
HAD DIFFICULTIES LIVING
FOR THE REMAINDER OF HIS LIFE,
WHICH WAS FIVE YEARS.
AND SO IN THAT PROCESS -
REBECCA: I ACTUALLY WANT YOU TO GIVE
THE DETAILS OF THAT.
PASTOR TIM: YEAH.
SO HE HAD TERMINAL THROAT CANCER,
STAGE 4.
THE DOCTORS GAVE HIM A VERY SHORT WINDOW TO LIVE.
THEY ALSO GAVE HIM THE OPTION
TO GET AN EXPERIMENTAL SURGERY,
WHICH HADN'T BEEN DONE AT THE TIME,
BUT I BELIEVE FOUR OTHER TIMES.
AND SO IT WAS REALLY A SMALL WINDOW OF SURVIVAL.
IF HE SURVIVED, LIFE WOULD BE VERY DIFFICULT,
OR THEY SAID THAT IT WOULD.
AND SO HE OPTED FOR IT BECAUSE IT WOULD
EXTEND HIS LIFE,
EVEN IF IT WAS FOR AN EXTRA WEEK OR TWO.
AND SO THE SURGERY WAS VERY INVASIVE.
THEY CUT HIM FROM THE BACK OF ONE EAR,
OPENED UP HIS NECK,
AND THE SCAR ENDED UP ON THE BACK OF THE OTHER EAR.
AND WHEN THEY OPENED UP HIS NECK,
THEY REMOVED A TUMOR THE SIZE OF A CHIPMUNK.
WHEN THEY DID THAT, THOUGH,
THEY REMOVED A QUARTER OF HIS TONGUE.
AND SO HE WAS NO LONGER ABLE TO SWALLOW,
NO LONGER ABLE TO DRINK OR EAT ANYTHING.
HE WAS FED THROUGH A G-TUBE
FOR THE REMAINDER OF HIS LIFE.
AND SO MY FATHER WAS A BIG GUY.
6'5, 265 POUNDS.
JUST COUNTRY STRONG.
AND OVER THE NEXT FEW MONTHS,
I JUST SAW HIM DWINDLE AND BECOME A SHELL
OF WHO I KNEW MY HERO TO BE.
AND SO FOR ME -
REBECCA: HOW OLD WERE YOU WHEN THAT HAPPENED?
PASTOR TIM: I WAS 12.
REBECCA: SO YOU WERE IN A REALLY IMPORTANT
PHASE OF YOUR LIFE.
PASTOR TIM: OH, MAN.
I WAS IN THE MOST FORMATIVE YEARS OF MY LIFE.
I REMEMBER, THEY GOT THE DIAGNOSIS
SHORTLY AFTER MY BIRTHDAY.
AND I REMEMBER HE ENDED UP DYING AND TRANSITIONING
THE DAY AFTER MY 18TH BIRTHDAY.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, OVER THAT FIVE-YEAR WINDOW OF TIME,
HE'S FIGHTING FOR HIS LIFE,
MY MOM IS FIGHTING FOR HIS LIFE.
I'M IN THESE FORMATIVE YEARS
AND I'M TRYING TO DISCOVER,
OKAY, WHAT DOES LIFE LOOK LIKE MOVING FORWARD,
AND REALLY TRYING TO DO MY BEST TO BECOME A MAN,
YOU KNOW, FROM 12 TO 18.
YOU KNOW, THOSE YEARS YOU ARE A SPONGE AS A YOUNG BOY
AND YOU JUST WANT TO KIND OF ABSORB
THE HEROES AND THE MENTORS
AND THE PEOPLE SPEAKING INTO YOUR LIFE.
AND TO HAVE HIS VOICE STILL ECHO FROM A DISTANCE,
JUST WASN'T ENOUGH FOR ME.
AND I STARTED TO ALLOW THE WRONG VOICES
TO SPEAK INTO MY LIFE.
AND REALLY KIND OF GO DOWN THIS PATHWAY
THAT WAS OPPOSITE OF WHAT THEY HAD
RAISED ME TO BE LIKE.
REBECCA: YEAH.
PASTOR TIM: AND I WAS FRUSTRATED WITH GOD,
AND I WAS ANGRY WITH GOD
AND DISAPPOINTED WITH GOD.
AND REALLY JUST STARTED TO KIND OF REBEL,
AND SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT?
IF THIS IS THE WAY GOD IS,
I DON'T WANT TO SERVE A GOD LIKE THAT.
REBECCA: YEAH.
PASTOR TIM: AND NOT REALLY HAVING MY FAITH ROOTED
IN MY OWN PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP,
BUT IT WAS ROOTED IN THEIRS.
AND SO I KNEW ABOUT GOD,
BUT I DIDN'T KNOW HIM.
AND THE BEST WAY FOR ME TO EXPLAIN IT
FOR OUR LISTENERS AND VIEWERS,
IS LIKE READING A HISTORY BOOK.
YOU KNOW, YOU GET AN OPPORTUNITY TO READ
AND LEARN ABOUT ABRAHAM LINCOLN
AND KNOW ABOUT HIM,
BUT YOU CAN'T SAY YOU KNOW ABRAHAM LINCOLN
UNTIL YOU MEET ABRAHAM LINCOLN.
AND SO YOU KNOW ALL THESE FACTS ABOUT HIM,
YOU KNOW SOME OF THE DATES,
YOU KNOW SOME OF THE HISTORY,
BUT YOU DON'T KNOW WHO HE IS.
YOU KNOW ABOUT HIM.
AND IT WAS LIKE THAT FOR GOD FOR ME.
I KNEW ABOUT GOD,
I KNEW SOME OF THE FACTS ABOUT GOD.
I KNEW SOME OF THE INCREDIBLE
TESTIMONIES AND STORIES
ABOUT MEN AND WOMEN IN THE BIBLE
AND ALL THESE GREAT THINGS
THAT I READ ABOUT.
BUT I DIDN'T KNOW WHO HE WAS
BECAUSE I DID NOT HAVE
A PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM.
AND IT WASN'T UNTIL AFTER MY FATHER HAD DIED
AND I HAD SEEN HIM WRESTLE THROUGH LIFE
AND REALLY STAND FIRM AND REALLY CONCRETE IN HIS FAITH,
AND REALLY LIVE OUT A LIFE THAT WAS AN EXAMPLE TO ME
OF WHAT STEADFASTNESS LOOKED LIKE,
RESILIENCE LOOKED LIKED,
ENDURANCE LOOKED LIKE.
IT WASN'T UNTIL HE DIED THAT I REALLY
ESTABLISHED A RELATIONSHIP WITH JESUS FOR MYSELF
WHERE I KNEW HIM FOR MYSELF.
AND MY PERSPECTIVE OF GOD CHANGED.
MY PERSPECTIVE OF JESUS CHANGED.
AND IT WAS NO LONGER SERVING HIM
BECAUSE OF WHAT HE COULD DO.
IT WAS JUST SERVING HIM BECAUSE OF WHO HE WAS.
REBECCA: YEAH.
PASTOR TIM: AND, YOU KNOW,
WHEN MY HEART TURNED TOWARDS JESUS
AND MY MIND WAS SHIFTING TOWARDS
A TRUE RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM,
THAT'S WHEN GOD REALLY STARTED TO CALL ME
INTO MINISTRY.
AND I HAD NO DESIRE TO BE IN MINISTRY.
AND I HAD NO -
SEEING YOUR PARENTS IN MINISTRY
AND SEEING HOW PEOPLE TREAT YOUR PARENTS
AND JUST THE UGLY SIDE OF MINISTRY,
IT'S NOTHING THAT YOU WOULD REALLY WANT TO GET INTO.
REBECCA: YEAH.
PASTOR TIM: IF YOU KNOW.
AND GOD WAS LIKE, NOPE, I WANT YOU.
I'M CALLING YOU.
I'M ASSIGNING YOU INTO MINISTRY.
AND I FOUGHT IT AS HARD AND AS LONG AS I COULD
UNTIL I COULD NO LONGER FIGHT.
AND WHEN I ACCEPTED THE CALL OF GOD,
IT WAS A VERY BEAUTIFUL THING.
HE SPOKE TO ME IN A DREAM.
AND I BELIEVE GOD SPEAKS TO US THROUGH DREAMS
BECAUSE WE CAN'T INTERRUPT HIM.
YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE I'LL WAIT UNTIL YOU GO TO SLEEP.
REBECCA: YOU'RE A CAPTIVE AUDIENCE AT NIGHT.
PASTOR TIM: THAT'S RIGHT, ABSOLUTELY.
HUSH, LISTEN, I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION,
DON'T SAY ANYTHING.
YOU'RE ASLEEP, GREAT. LET'S BEGIN.
SO HE SHOWED ME IN THIS DREAM,
I WAS STANDING ON THIS STAGE
AND IT WAS A SEA FULL OF PEOPLE
AS FAR AS I COULD SEE.
AND I GLANCED DOWN AT MY HANDS
AND I COULD SEE THERE WAS BLOOD,
JUST KIND OF SMUDGED ON MY HANDS.
AND IT WAS THE FIRST TIME I HEARD GOD SO CLEAR
SPEAK TO ME AND SAY,
THE LONGER YOU RUN FROM WHAT I'VE CALLED YOU TO DO,
EVERYONE YOU COULD HAVE INFLUENCED -
NOT EVERYONE YOU WOULD MEET,
NOT EVERYONE YOU WOULD IMPACT,
EVERYONE YOU COULD HAVE INFLUENCED,
THEIR BLOOD WILL BE HELD TO YOUR ACCOUNT.
AND I WOKE UP AND I WAS JUST SO AFRAID,
I WAS SCARED.
I CALLED MY MOM AND I TOLD HER ABOUT THIS DREAM
AND I THOUGHT SHE WAS GONNA BE LIKE,
OH, IT'S OKAY, YOU KNOW.
MAYBE IT MEANS THIS.
AND SHE STARTED LAUGHING HYSTERICALLY,
LIKE SHE COULD NOT CATCH HER BREATH.
AND I WAS SO CONFUSED BECAUSE I WAS
SCARED OUT OF MY MIND
AND MY MOM IS LAUGHING LIKE THIS LADY HAS LOST
HER NATURAL-BORN MIND.
SHE IS GOING CUCKOO FOR COCOA PUFFS.
AND SHE CAUGHT HER BREATH LONG ENOUGH TO TELL ME,
THAT'S THE EXACT DREAM YOUR FATHER HAD
WHEN GOD CALLED HIM INTO MINISTRY.
REBECCA: WOW.
PASTOR TIM: AND I WAS LIKE, OH, MY GOSH.
REBECCA: THAT'S SO WILD.
PASTOR TIM: SO WILD.
REBECCA: LIKE, WHAT ARE THE CHANCES?
PASTOR TIM: OH, MAN.
AND HE NEVER TOLD ME THAT.
AND, YOU KNOW, ONE OF MY GREATEST GIFTS TO DATE
THAT I HAVE IS I HAVE
ALL OF MY FATHER'S NOTEBOOKS.
AND SO AFTER MY DAD DIED,
I WAS READING THROUGH ONE OF HIS NOTEBOOKS
AND HE WAS TALKING ABOUT THAT DREAM.
AND HE WAS TALKING ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED.
AND JUST, IT WAS SO SPOT ON,
SO MUCH OF THE SAME DREAM THAT I HAD,
THAT IF I HAD CONTINUED TO DISOBEY,
IT WOULD HAVE BEEN AT MY DEMISE.
YOU KNOW, AND SO TO BE ABLE TO STEP INTO OBEDIENCE
AND STEP INTO THE CALL OF GOD,
IT NEVER IS EASY,
ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU'RE STEPPING INTO AN ASSIGNMENT
BEHIND A SPIRITUAL GIANT LIKE OUR PARENTS,
AND, YOU KNOW, LIKE OUR FATHERS.
BUT YOU STEP INTO A POSITION AND A SEASON
OFF OF THEIR SHOULDERS
AND IT ALLOWS US TO SEE FURTHER THAN THEY COULD,
AND IT ALLOWS US TO REACH FURTHER THAN THEY COULD
BECAUSE WE STAND ON THEIR SHOULDERS.
AND I REMEMBER PRAYING ONE DAY
AND GOD JUST ASKED ME THIS QUESTION.
HOW DOES A KING OR A QUEEN BECOME A KING OR A QUEEN?
AND I WAS LIKE, I DON'T KNOW.
THEY'RE KNIGHTED INTO IT, I GUESS.
I DON'T KNOW.
THEY'RE ADORNED WITH IT.
AND HE SAID, NO.
A KING OR A QUEEN MUST FIRST DIE.
AND THAT'S THE HARD REALITY
ABOUT THE POSITION THAT WE'RE IN.
IN ORDER FOR US TO STEP INTO
SOME OF THE ASSIGNMENTS
AND SOME OF THE SEASONS,
THERE HAS TO BE SOMEONE THAT GOES BEFORE US.
REBECCA: YEAH.
PASTOR TIM: SO THAT WE CAN OCCUPY THE SEAT
AND THE ASSIGNMENT THAT WE ARE IN.
AND SO THINKING ABOUT THAT,
AND EVEN FROM OUR CONVERSATIONS EARLIER,
JUST REFLECTING ON, YOU KNOW, THE ROADS
THAT OUR FATHERS PAVED FOR US,
IT BRINGS ME BACK TO SO MANY MEMORIES.
BUT THE MOST IMPORTANT IS GRATITUDE.
SO, YEAH, IT'S JUST A LITTLE BIT.
REBECCA: THAT'S SO BEAUTIFUL.
BUT IT'S A SPIRITUAL INHERITANCE.
YOU ARE CONTINUING THAT WORK.
AND IT'S KIND OF LIKE,
I READ SOMETHING THE OTHER DAY,
IT'S LIKE THEIR TOP, THE HIGHEST THEY'LL GO IN LIFE,
THAT CAN BE OUR FLOOR,
BECAUSE THEY PAVED THAT WAY FOR US.
PASTOR TIM: THAT'S RIGHT.
REBECCA: AND WHAT'S SO BEAUTIFUL IS
YOU SAW THAT DREAM, THE FEAR OF GOD HIT YOU.
WHAT WAS IT AGAIN, GOD SAID THERE -
PASTOR TIM: EVERYONE I COULD HAVE INFLUENCED,
THEIR BLOOD WOULD BE HELD TO MY ACCOUNT.
WHICH THAT'S JUST SO WILD TO THINK ABOUT.
BUT WE NEED TO BE THINKING THAT WAY.
PASTOR TIM: ABSOLUTELY.
REBECCA: BECAUSE WE WILL STAND BEFORE GOD ONE DAY.
AND WE WILL HAVE TO GIVE AN ACCOUNT OF OUR LIVES.
LIKE THANK GOODNESS OUR SINS ARE FORGIVEN
BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS,
BUT THERE'S ALSO THE JUDGMENT OF OUR LIVES.
AND WERE WE OBEDIENT,
AND WE ARE HELD RESPONSIBLE.
SO THAT'S A WORD FOR WHOEVER IS LISTENING.
PASTOR TIM: I'M TELLING YOU,
AND I JUST ENCOURAGE OUR LISTENERS,
YOU KNOW, WE OFTEN THINK WE'RE JUDGED BY WHAT WE DO,
WHICH IS TRUE,
BUT WE'RE JUDGED BY WHAT GOD TOLD US NOT TO DO.
AND WHAT GOD TOLD US TO DO THAT WE DIDN'T.
AND OFTENTIMES WE THINK THAT WE'RE LIMITED
BY WHAT WE DON'T HAVE.
AND I WOULD ARGUE, WE'RE NOT LIMITED
BY WHAT WE DON'T HAVE,
WE'RE LIMITED BY WHAT WE HAVE
THAT WE DON'T USE.
AND THERE'S AN ANOINTING,
THERE'S AN ASSIGNMENT,
THERE'S A GIFTING IN US,
THAT GOD HAS PLACED IN US.
AND SOME OF THE LIMITATIONS THAT WE'RE FACED WITH
IS BECAUSE WE HAVE NOT SAID YES TO THOSE THINGS
THAT REALLY HOLD US BACK
FROM BECOMING OUR BEST IN GOD.
REBECCA: YEAH.
AND I JUST THINK ABOUT THE PARABLE OF THE SOWER.
PASTOR TIM: YEAH.
REBECCA: WHERE IT'S LIKE,
WE WILL BE RESPONSIBLE,
EACH PERSON HAS A DIFFERENT AMOUNT OF
TALENTS, YOU KNOW,
BUT EACH PERSON, TWO OF THE PEOPLE MULTIPLIED IT,
AND THE OTHER PERSON WENT AND BURIED IT.
AND IT DOESN'T MATTER IF SOMEONE HAS TEN OR FIVE,
YOU JUST HAVE TO STEWARD WHAT GOD HAS GIVEN YOU.
AND WE WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE LIKE THEY WERE.
PASTOR TIM: ABSOLUTELY.
REBECCA: SO WHEN YOU HAD THAT DREAM,
HOW OLD WERE YOU?
PASTOR TIM: I WAS 18.
REBECCA: OKAY, SO YOU WERE 18.
PASTOR TIM: YEAH.
REBECCA: SO GO BACK TO THAT MOMENT.
YOU HAVE THAT DREAM AND YOU DECIDE
THEN AND THERE WHAT?
PASTOR TIM: SO MY FATHER HAD DIED THE DAY
AFTER MY 18TH BIRTHDAY.
ON MY 18TH BIRTHDAY, MY DAD SAT ME DOWN
FOR FIVE HOURS AND JUST SPOKE INTO ME,
JUST DECLARED OVER ME ON MY 18TH BIRTHDAY.
I'M NOT REALLY THINKING, MAN, THIS IS INCREDIBLE.
THIS IS MY 18TH BIRTHDAY,
SO I'M THINKING ABOUT WHAT I'M GONNA DO,
WHAT AM I GONNA HAVE FOR DINNER,
WHO AM I GONNA HANG OUT WITH.
REBECCA: DON'T YOU JUST HATE THAT?
PASTOR TIM: OH, MAN.
MY DAD IS TALKING TO ME -
REBECCA: SPEAKING LIKE THE FATHER'S BLESSING.
PASTOR TIM: HE IS DECLARING OVER ME,
AND SO I'M THERE BUT I'M NOT THERE.
AND HE IS TELLING ME
THE PLAN OF GOD FOR MY LIFE.
AND, YOU KNOW, AFTER ABOUT FIVE HOURS
HE PATS ME ON THE LEG,
HE GOES UPSTAIRS TO HIS ROOM,
HE GOES TO SLEEP.
2 A.M. THE FOLLOWING MORNING,
MY MOM KNOCKS ON THE DOOR,
SHE SAYS, HEY, I NEED YOU TO HELP ME
GET YOUR DAD OUT OF BED.
HE'S NOT RESPONDING.
SO WE RUSH INTO THE ROOM.
PULL HIM OUT OF BED.
HE'S ALREADY GONE.
AND I REMEMBER THINKING TO MYSELF,
I WISH I HAD MORE TIME.
I WISH I HAD PAID MORE ATTENTION.
I WISH THAT I COULD GO BACK IN TIME,
SIT DOWN, GET A PEN,
GET A PAD,
WRITE DOWN WHAT HE WAS SAYING.
AND SO FOR THE LAST 20-SOMETHING-ODD YEARS,
I'VE RELIVED THAT CONVERSATION OVER AND OVER
AND OVER AGAIN
TO TRY TO GRAB AHOLD OF MORE PIECES.
AND ONE OF MY BIGGEST REGRETS IN LIFE
IS NOT BEING PRESENT.
AND SO FROM THAT MOMENT,
EVERY CONVERSATION THAT I'VE HAD
I AM 100 PERCENT PRESENT.
BECAUSE I NEVER KNOW HOW THOSE CONVERSATIONS
WILL MARK ME
FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE.
AND HOW THAT MOMENT CHANGED ME
FROM A PLACE OF REGRET
IN SUCH A POSITIVE WAY.
YOU KNOW, REGRET CAN DO ONE OF TWO THINGS.
REGRET CAN ALLOW US TO LIVE IN REMORSE,
OR REGRET CAN ALLOW US TO LIVE IN REDEMPTION.
REBECCA: WOW.
PASTOR TIM: AND IT ALLOWED ME TO REDEEM
SOME OF THE THINGS THAT I WISH THAT I HAD DONE BETTER
AND STEWARD MY LIFE MOVING FORWARD DIFFERENTLY.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, FROM THAT CONVERSATION,
I JUST, I TRY TO DRAW AS MUCH FROM IT AS I CAN,
AS MY MIND WOULD REMEMBER.
BUT I GO BACK TO THOSE NOTEBOOKS.
AND, YOU KNOW, SO EVEN NOW,
ONE OF MY GREATEST JOYS
IS TO WRITE NOTES TO MY SON.
AND, YOU KNOW, TAKE IT A STEP FURTHER,
SOMETHING THAT I WISH I HAD -
I WISH I HAD A VIDEO OF MY FATHER TALKING TO ME.
AND SO I'LL READ WHAT I WRITE TO MY SON,
IN KNOWING ONE DAY I WON'T BE HERE,
BUT THESE RECORDINGS AND THESE NOTES WILL BE
AND WHAT THEY'LL MEAN TO HIM
BECAUSE OF WHAT THOSE NOTES MEAN TO ME NOW.
AND SO THAT'S ONE OF MY GREATEST JOYS RIGHT NOW.
AND, YOU KNOW, THE OLDER WE GET,
THE MORE I START TO THINK,
WHAT CAN I DO DIFFERENTLY
THAT I WISH I HAD FOR MY KID
THAT I HOLD ON TO AND CHERISH NOW.
AND, YOU KNOW, YOU JUST START TO PROCESS IT DIFFERENTLY
WHEN SOMEONE CLOSE TO YOU DIES
THAT MEANS THE WORLD TO YOU.
AND, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE PEOPLE THAT WILL
COME BEHIND YOU
THAT YOU MEAN EVERYTHING TO THEM.
AND SO, YEAH, IT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS,
LIVING FOR IT,
BUT ALSO OUR ASSIGNMENT IS TO LIVE WITH FORESIGHT,
WHICH IS THE ABILITY TO SEE MORE BEFORE
AND LIVE HINDSIGHT,
THE ABILITY TO LEAVE BEHIND US
SOMETHING THAT WILL BE IMPACTFUL
FOR THE GENERATIONS TO COME.
AND THAT'S WHAT LEGACY IS.
LEGACY ISN'T WHAT WE LEAVE FOR PEOPLE,
LEGACY IS WHAT WE LEAVE IN PEOPLE.
I DESIRE TO LEAVE SOMETHING IN MY SON
THAT MY DAD LEFT IN ME.
REBECCA: AND THERE'S SOMETHING LIKE YOU SAID
ABOUT THEM PASSING ON.
BECAUSE I FELT THAT WHEN MY OWN DAD WENT.
IT WAS LIKE HIS LIFE WAS A SEED
THAT WENT INTO THE GROUND.
PASTOR TIM: YEAH.
REBECCA: AND IT WASN'T UNTIL THAT HAPPENED,
IT CAUSED A SHIFT.
AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S TERRIBLE, IT'S HARD,
BUT SOMETHING DOES HAPPEN
AND THERE IS PURPOSE TO IT.
AND IT'S HARD TO GO THROUGH THAT PROCESS,
BUT YOU ALSO SEE,
IT'S LIKE YOU GRIEVE,
BUT THEN YOU ALSO SEE THE SIGNIFICANCE
AND THE PURPOSE AND HOW THERE'S SO MUCH MORE
IN FRONT OF YOU,
THAN WHAT'S BEHIND YOU.
YOU LOOK AT EVERYTHING.
MY WHOLE, LIKE, PERSPECTIVE SHIFTED
WHEN MY DAD WENT TO THE LORD.
YOU KNOW, EVERYTHING, GOD EVEN BEGAN
TO COME ALIVE IN ME.
FAITH, YOU KNOW, I HEARD ABOUT FAITH MY WHOLE LIFE.
BUT FAITH REALLY BEGAN TO MAKE SENSE TO ME
WHEN MY DAD PASSED.
AND UNDERSTANDING WHAT IT MEANS.
AND HOW WE NEED TO LIVE FOR ETERNITY
AND NOT LIVE FOR THE NOW.
PASTOR TIM: YEAH.
REBECCA: YOU KNOW, SO THERE'S SO MANY
IMPORTANT LESSONS
THAT CAME FROM MY DAD'S PASSING.
WHAT DID YOU LEARN THROUGH YOUR DIFFERENT LOSSES
THAT YOU EXPERIENCED?
PASTOR TIM: ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I LEARNED
THROUGH LOSS,
IS JUST THE CYCLE OF GRIEVING.
I THINK MOST OF THE TIME,
YOU KNOW, FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING JESUS
FOR ANY AMOUNT OF TIME,
ONE OF THE MISCONCEPTIONS IS THAT YOU'LL GET OVER IT.
AND WITH JESUS, YOUR FEELINGS WILL
EVENTUALLY GO AWAY,
AND THINGS WILL CHANGE.
AND THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY TRUE.
YOU KNOW, THERE'S DAYS WHERE I HAVE INCREDIBLE
MOMENTS OF REFLECTION,
WHERE I HAVE A SMILE ON MY FACE.
AND THERE'S DAYS WHERE I HAVE INCREDIBLE
MOMENTS OF REFLECTION
WHERE I'M CRYING AND IT'S LIKE YESTERDAY
THAT WE TALKED, AND YESTERDAY THAT HE HUGGED ME,
OR, YOU KNOW, IT JUST DEPENDS ON THE DAY.
SO ONE OF THE GREATEST THINGS I'VE LEARNED IN LOSSES,
NEVER ROB YOURSELF OF THE HUMAN EXPERIENCE.
YOU HAVE TO ALLOW YOURSELF TO FEEL EVERYTHING YOU FEEL
BUT DON'T BE LED BY YOUR FEELINGS.
REBECCA: OH, THAT'S SO GOOD.
PASTOR TIM: YEAH.
REBECCA: SO YOU DON'T INVALIDATE THEM,
BUT YOU'RE NOT LED BY THEM.
PASTOR TIM: I'M NOT LED BY THEM.
YOU KNOW, IF EVER I COME TO A PLACE
WHERE I'M BEING LED BY MY FEELINGS,
THEN OFTENTIMES I'M BEING LED AWAY FROM
THE PURPOSE AND THE WILL OF GOD FOR MY LIFE.
AND SO GOD DOESN'T WANT US TO NUMB OUR FEELINGS.
HE DOESN'T WANT US TO AVOID THEM.
HE WANTS US TO FEEL THEM.
BUT WE HAVE TO PROCESS THEM WITH HIM
SO THAT WE CAN BE LED BY HIS SPIRIT.
WHEN WE'RE LED BY HIS SPIRIT,
THAT'S WHERE WE EXPERIENCE THE GREATEST LEVEL OF HEALING
KNOWN TO MANKIND.
AND JUST BECAUSE YOU HEAL
DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU WON'T HAVE
SEASONS AND TIMES
WHERE YOU NEED TO GO BACK AND HEAL AGAIN.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, GRIEF AND THE DEATH OF A LOVED ONE
IS SOMETHING THAT YOU WILL HAVE
RECURRING FEELINGS WITH,
ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY MEAN A LOT TO YOU.
AND, YOU KNOW, THE BEAUTY OF IT ALL,
IS THAT WE GET A CHANCE TO WALK OUT
THIS LIFE WITH JESUS,
AND HE GETS A CHANCE TO WALK HAND IN HAND WITH US
THROUGH EVERY SEASON OF GRIEF
THAT WE FIND OURSELVES IN.
REBECCA: THAT'S SO GOOD.
SO IN THE BOOK YOU BREAK DOWN
THE DIFFERENT PARTS OF A FUNERAL.
SO I WANT TO START WITH,
I KNOW WE PROBABLY ALREADY TAPPED ON SOME OF THIS,
BUT THE FIRST ONE IS THE CONTRADICTION.
PASTOR TIM: UH-HUH.
REBECCA: SPEAK ON THAT.
PASTOR TIM: LIFE AND DEATH,
THE CONTRADICTION IS THAT WE OFTEN
EXPECT THINGS TO GO DIFFERENTLY THAN THEY DO.
AND SO WHENEVER WE HAVE THAT EXPECTATION,
AND WE EXPERIENCE SOMETHING THAT CONTRADICTS
OUR HOPE OR OUR EXPECTATION,
IT OFTENTIMES LEAVES US IN A PLACE OF CONFUSION.
AND CONFUSION UNCHECKED TURNS INTO CHAOS.
AND, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO BRING OURSELVES TO
THE RESOLUTION,
THAT ALTHOUGH WHAT WE LOVED OR WHO WE LOVED
IS NO LONGER THERE,
WE LIVE OUR LIVES FORWARD
AND GOD HAS A PLAN FOR US.
AND SO THAT'S THE FIRST STEP.
THE SECOND STEP IS CONFRONTATION.
THAT'S US REALLY FACING, ACKNOWLEDGING,
ADDRESSING WHAT IS NO LONGER PRESENT,
OR WHO IS NO LONGER PRESENT.
THAT'S WHEN WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY
TO ALLOW THE HEALING TO BEGIN.
ALLOW THE STEPS OF HEALING TO TAKE ITS COURSE,
AND REALLY PARTNER WITH GOD.
AND THE REASON I SAY PARTNER,
BECAUSE YOU CANNOT DO IT ON YOUR OWN.
ONE OF THE GREATEST MISCONCEPTIONS
IS THAT TIME HEALS ALL.
TIME DOES NOT HEAL ALL.
REBECCA: HUH-HUH.
PASTOR TIM: BUT TIME IN GOD DOES.
REBECCA: YEAH.
PASTOR TIM: AND WHEN WE PARTNER WITH GOD
ON THIS JOURNEY,
GOD ALLOWS US TO GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS
HAND IN HAND WITH HIM.
AND HE JUST WRAPS HIS ARMS AROUND US
AND HE PULLS US IN CLOSE TO HIS HEART
SO THAT WE CAN HEAR HIS DESIRED PLAN FOR US.
AND THE PLAN THAT HE HAS FOR US,
YOU KNOW, JEREMIAH SAYS,
I KNOW THE PLAN I HAVE FOR YOU,
THAT PLAN IS GOOD AND NOT EVIL.
AND OFTENTIMES WHEN WE EXPERIENCE LOSS,
WE THINK, OH, THIS IS EVIL.
AND GOD'S PLAN FOR OUR LIFE IS NOT THAT.
AND SO WE HAVE TO STAY CLOSE
TO EXPERIENCE THE PLAN OF GOD.
SO THAT'S THE SECOND STEP.
SO YOU HAVE THE CONTRADICTION,
YOU HAVE THE CONFRONTATION,
AND THEN, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE WHAT I CALL THE EULOGY.
THAT'S WHEN YOU REALLY HONOR WHAT HAS BEEN LOST
AND BRING YOURSELF TO THE PLACE OF
MOVING FORWARD THROUGH HONOR.
AND SO OFTEN WE DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM
HONORING THOSE THAT HAVE LEFT,
THAT TRANSITIONED FROM THIS LIFE TO THE NEXT,
BUT WE DON'T PROPERLY HONOR
AND BRING RESOLUTION TO THINGS THAT HAS DIED.
AND WE MOVE ON FROM THEM WITHOUT PROPERLY
HEALING FROM THEM.
AND SO ANYTHING THAT WE DON'T GIVE
PROPER TIME AND PROCESS TO THROUGH HEALING
WILL REVISIT US IN AN UNHEALTHY WAY.
REBECCA: YEAH.
PASTOR TIM: AND SO, YOU KNOW,
WHEN WE HONOR AND EULOGIZE THOSE THINGS,
THAT REALLY ALLOWS US TO START
THAT HEALING PROCESS.
AND THEN THE FOURTH STEP
IS THE PROCESSIONAL.
IT'S, YOU KNOW, KIND OF THE REPASS OF A
HOME-GOING SERVICE.
IT'S WHEN THE FAMILY COMES
AND FOOD IS BEING COOKED,
AND THERE'S A CELEBRATION.
YOU KNOW, OFTENTIMES WE DON'T TALK ABOUT
THE PERSON DYING,
WE DON'T EVEN TALK ABOUT THE PERSON BEING BORN.
WE TALK ABOUT THE LIFE THAT THEY LIVED.
AND THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR US
TO REALLY HONOR THE DASH IN BETWEEN,
HIGHLIGHT THE HIGHLIGHTS.
AND SEE WHAT WE HAVE TO DO
TO MOVE OUR LIFE FORWARD,
TO HONOR THE LIFE THAT THEY HAVE LIVED
AND REALLY LEFT BEHIND IN US
SO THAT WE DO JUSTICE
THE LIFE THAT THEY HAVE IMPACTED US WITH.
OR THE THINGS THAT IMPACTED US.
AND SO I STOPPED SAYING I LOST MY DAD
AND I REALLY START TO SAY,
I CELEBRATED THE LIFE THAT HE LIVED
AND THAT HELPED ME CHANGE MY PERSPECTIVE
AND REALLY SHAPE MY PAIN IN A PURPOSEFUL WAY.
REBECCA: YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS IS,
WHEN MY DAD PASSED,
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT GOD GAVE TO ME WAS,
HEBREWS 11, THE CHAPTER OF FAITH.
PASTOR TIM: YEAH.
REBECCA: AND WHAT'S INTERESTING IS,
WE WANT TO HAVE FAITH FOR THE GOOD THINGS,
BUT IT'S ALSO SO IMPORTANT TO HAVE FAITH
WHEN THINGS DON'T MAKE SENSE IN THE MOMENT.
BECAUSE FAITH IS TRUSTING
THAT GOD IS WHO HE SAYS HE IS,
AND THAT GOD IS GOOD,
SO HE IS GOOD EVEN WHEN OUR SURROUNDINGS
DON'T MAKE SENSE TO US IN THAT MOMENT.
AND WHAT'S SO POWERFUL ABOUT THAT PASSAGE,
IS IT SAYS THAT ABRAHAM WAS PROMISED
THAT HE WOULD BE A FATHER OF A GREAT -
OF SO MANY PEOPLE.
AND IT NAMES THESE DIFFERENT PROMISES.
AND AT THE END IT SAYS, THEY DIDN'T ALL SEE
THE FULFILLMENT OF THOSE PROMISES,
BUT THEY HAD FAITH ANYWAY.
AND WE KNOW THAT THOSE PROMISES,
EVERYONE LISTED IN THE SCRIPTURE
CAME TO PASS.
AND SO WHAT'S SO IMPORTANT,
IS HAVING FAITH WHEN THINGS ARE DIFFICULT.
CAN YOU SPEAK TO THAT?
PASTOR TIM: YEAH.
THAT'S ONE OF MY FAVORITE CHAPTERS IN THE BIBLE.
YOU KNOW, WE CALL IT THE HALL OF FAITH.
AND IT STARTS OFF BY TALKING ABOUT
GREAT MEN AND WOMEN AND THE FAITH THAT THEY HAD.
AND WHAT THEY SAW AND THE THINGS THAT
THEY ACCOMPLISHED BECAUSE OF THEIR FAITH.
AND THEN THE SECOND PORTION OF THAT CHAPTER,
IT KIND OF CHANGES THE TONE.
AND IT BEGINS TO SAY THAT THEY DIED IN FAITH.
REBECCA: YEAH.
PASTOR TIM: THEY DIED IN FAITH.
WHICH MEANS THAT THEY HAD FAITH,
BUT THEY DID NOT SEE IN THIS LIFE
WHAT THEY WERE BELIEVING GOD FOR.
AND I BELIEVE THAT'S SUCH A SPECIAL,
SPECIAL MARKER FOR US,
THAT WALK OUT THIS LIFE UNDERSTANDING AND KNOWING
THAT OUR FAITH IS NOT ANCHORED
IN SOMETHING HAPPENING.
OUR FAITH IS ANCHORED IN JESUS.
AND REGARDLESS IF WE SEE IT OR NOT,
IT STILL WILL BE PROVIDED
AND IT STILL WILL BE PERFORMED.
AND SO ALTHOUGH I NEVER SAW
MY FATHER GET COMPLETELY HEALED,
HE RECEIVED HIS HEALING.
REBECCA: YEAH.
PASTOR TIM: AND HE DIED IN FAITH BELIEVING
THAT GOD WOULD DELIVER HIM,
BELIEVING THAT GOD WOULD HEAL HIM,
AND HE DID.
IT JUST DIDN'T HAPPEN THE WAY
THAT I THOUGHT THAT IT SHOULD.
AND I BELIEVE WHEN OUR PERSPECTIVE
IS REALLY ATTACHED TO SCRIPTURE
AND THE WORD OF GOD,
IT REALLY BUILDS OUR FAITH
AND AT CERTAIN POINTS, IT CHALLENGES OUR FAITH.
AND ONE OF THE THINGS I LEARNED ABOUT THE BIBLE
IS IF THE BIBLE DOES NOT BOTH BLESS ME,
AND BLISTER ME,
IT IS NOT THE BIBLE.
THERE ARE THINGS IN IT I LOVE.
THERE ARE THINGS IN IT THAT I DON'T LIKE,
BUT IF I APPLY IT, IT ALWAYS BENEFITS ME
TO MOVE CLOSER TO GOD.
AND SO THERE ARE SOME THINGS
THAT I WILL HAVE FAITH FOR IN THIS LIFE
THAT I SEE,
AND THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT I WILL DIE IN FAITH
BELIEVING TO SEE
THAT I WILL SEE ON THE OTHER SIDE.
AND THOSE THAT COME BEHIND ME,
THAT WILL BE THEIR TESTIMONY.
HE DIED IN FAITH BELIEVING FOR WHAT HE NOW SEES
THAT WE HOPE TO SEE UPON THE DAY OF JESUS' RETURN.
REBECCA: THAT'S SO GOOD.
THERE'S JUST SO MUCH TO THINK ABOUT.
I LOVE WHEN YOU SAID THAT WE SOMETIMES HAVE FAITH
WHEN WE WANT THINGS TO TURN OUT A CERTAIN WAY.
PASTOR TIM: YEAH.
REBECCA: AND I THINK PEOPLE GET
TOO CAUGHT UP IN THAT,
AND YOU HAVE TO PUT YOUR FAITH IN HIM.
AND EVEN IF THINGS DON'T TURN OUT
THE WAY YOU THINK THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO
OR WHEN THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO,
YOU HAVE TO HAVE FAITH AND TRUST
THAT HE'S A GOOD GOD.
YOU HAVE TO HAVE FAITH AND TRUST
THAT HE'S A GOOD GOD,
AND YOU ALSO CAN'T GET OFFENDED.
AND THAT'S A SNARE I SEE SO MANY PEOPLE FALL INTO,
IS THINGS DON'T TURN OUT
THE WAY THEY WANT IT TO
OR HOW THEY WANTED TO,
OR WHEN THEY WANTED TO,
AND IT'S SO EASY IN THAT MOMENT TO GET OFFENDED
AND YOU COULD HAVE GOT OFFENDED AT THE LORD
WITH WHAT HAPPENED WITH YOUR DAD,
BUT YOU DIDN'T ALLOW IT TO.
WHAT IS YOUR WORD FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE WATCHING
HOW NOT TO FALL INTO THAT SNARE OF OFFENSE
AND DISAPPOINTMENT?
PASTOR TIM: YEAH.
SO OFFENSE IS REALLY ROOTED IN ENTITLEMENT, RIGHT?
REBECCA: UH-HUH.
PASTOR TIM: THE REASON I'M OFFENDED IS BECAUSE
I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT IT HAPPENED LIKE THIS.
THAT'S ENTITLEMENT.
AND ENTITLEMENT IS ALWAYS ROOTED
IN AN ANTICHRIST SPIRIT.
REBECCA: OH, WOW.
PASTOR TIM: AND SO ANYTHING THAT I FEEL
ENTITLED TO,
IS CONTRARY TO THE PURPOSE
AND THE WILL OF GOD.
AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE TO REALLY FIGHT
TO KEEP SUBMITTED AT THE FEET OF JESUS
SO THAT WE DON'T TRY TO BECOME OUR OWN GODS.
WE DON'T CONTROL OUR FUTURE,
WE DON'T CONTROL OUR DESTINY.
YOU KNOW, GOD DOES.
SO ANYTIME WE PUSH BACK AND FIGHT ON THAT,
WE REALLY OPERATE IN AND FROM A PLACE
THAT IS CONTRARY TO THE WILL OF GOD FOR OUR LIVES.
AND SO WHENEVER WE FIND OURSELVES
GETTING FRUSTRATED,
OKAY, THIS HAPPENED, THIS HAPPENED,
I WASN'T EXPECTING THIS,
THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN THIS WAY.
IT'S REALLY ROOTED IN ENTITLEMENT.
SO REALLY OFFENSE IS THE FRUIT,
BUT ENTITLEMENT IS THE ROOT.
AND SO WE HAVE TO ATTACK THAT ROOT SYSTEM
TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE CARRYING OUT
AND REALLY LAYING AT THE FEET OF JESUS
EVERYTHING THAT WE NEED TO
SO THAT WE CAN BE LIKE HIM.
REMEMBER WHAT JESUS SAID.
YOU KNOW, THERE ARE THINGS THAT I BELIEVE
JESUS WANTED TO DO
BUT HE SAID I ONLY DO WHAT MY FATHER TELLS ME TO DO.
REBECCA: YEAH.
PASTOR TIM: AND I ONLY SAY WHAT MY FATHER
TELLS ME TO SAY.
WHICH MEANS HE HAD A CHOICE,
BUT HE STILL CHOSE TO OBEY.
AND THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE TO BRING OURSELVES TO
AND THAT'S WHERE WE HAVE TO SUBMIT OUR WILL
AND WAY TO JESUS
BECAUSE EVEN HE HAD TO DO IT.
REBECCA: THAT'S SO GOOD.
ANY FINAL WORDS,
ANY WORD OF ENCOURAGEMENT
TO THE PEOPLE WHO ARE LISTENING?
PASTOR TIM: MAN, IF I COULD LEAVE ONE LAST THOUGHT,
IT WOULD BE THIS.
REGARDLESS OF THE SEASON THAT YOU'RE IN
AND REGARDLESS OF THE PAIN YOU MAY BE FEELING
OR THE CONFUSION THAT YOU MAY BE FEELING,
UNDERSTAND THIS:
THAT THE PLAN OF GOD WILL NOT FAIL.
AND WHEN YOU FIND YOURSELF IN CONFUSION,
FOLLOW THE VOICE OF GOD
WHEN YOU CANNOT SEE.
AND I'M REMINDED OF A GAME
THAT ME AND MY WIFE PLAY
WITH OUR SIX-YEAR-OLD SON.
IT'S CALLED THE SILENT GAME.
AND WE PUT THIS BLINDFOLD ON HIM
AND HE HAS TO TRY TO HEAR WHERE WE ARE
AND FIND US.
HE CAN'T SEE.
HE DOESN'T KNOW.
BUT HE CAN HEAR.
AND IN LIFE IT'S A LOT LIKE THAT.
OFTENTIMES YOU CAN'T SEE HOW THINGS WILL TURN OUT,
BUT AS LONG AS YOU FOLLOW THE VOICE OF YOUR FATHER,
HE WILL LEAD YOU DOWN THE PATH OF RIGHTEOUSNESS,
AND HE WILL LEAD YOU DOWN THE PATH OF TRUTH.
SO CONTINUE ON THAT JOURNEY
UNTIL YOU DISCOVER HIS HAND.
AND THAT'S IT.
REBECCA: THAT'S SO GOOD.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.
FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT TO GET THE BOOK,
THE ART OF OVERCOMING,
WHERE CAN THEY GET IT?
PASTOR TIM: THEY CAN GET IT FROM
TIMTIMBERLAKE.TV
OR ANYWHERE BOOKS ARE SOLD.
IT'S IN ALL BOOKSTORES EVERYWHERE.
SO I'M EXTREMELY GRATEFUL
THAT YOU WOULD HAVE ME ON THE PODCAST
AND LOOK FORWARD TO DOING THIS AGAIN VERY SOON.
REBECCA: YES.
THANK YOU SO MUCH.
AND FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT TO CHECK OUT YOUR CHURCH,
WHERE ARE YOU LOCATED?
PASTOR TIM: CELEBRATION.ORG.
WE ARE BASED IN JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA,
BUT HAVE MULTIPLE LOCATIONS KIND OF ALL
AROUND THE WORLD.
FOR MORE INFORMATION, GO TO CELEBRATION.ORG.
REBECCA: WELL, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.
PASTOR TIM: THANK YOU.
REBECCA: WE REALLY APPRECIATE IT.
PASTOR TIM: APPRECIATE YOU.
♪♪