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REBECCA LAMB WEISS: HI, GUYS.
I'M REALLY EXCITED TODAY
BECAUSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ONE OF MY FAVORITE TOPICS,
THE HOLY SPIRIT.
AND I AM JOINED WITH SENIOR PASTOR
OF RADIANT CHURCH IN MICHIGAN,
PASTOR LEE CUMMINGS.
LEE CUMMINGS: GREAT TO BE HERE WITH YOU.
REBECCA: OKAY.
I WANT TO GET INTO THIS,
BUT I WANT YOU TO GIVE A LITTLE BIT OF BACKGROUND
FOR OUR VIEWERS WHO MAY NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT YOU.
GIVE US A LITTLE OF YOUR TESTIMONY,
HOW DID YOU GET INTO MINISTRY, ALL THAT.
LEE: SURE.
WELL, 12 YEARS OLD, I HAD AN ENCOUNTER WITH THE LORD
AT A VERY SMALL LITTLE CHURCH.
THE LORD BROKE INTO MY REGULARLY-SCHEDULED PROGRAMMING
AS A 12-YEAR-OLD INSECURE KID
FROM A BROKEN MARRIAGE,
AND HE CALLED ME TO SERVE HIM
AND TO PREPARE MYSELF FOR MINISTRY.
SO MY TEEN YEARS WERE REALLY DEDICATED TO
GROWING IN THE WORD,
GROWING IN THE LORD,
SERVING IN A LOCAL CHURCH.
WENT TO BIBLE COLLEGE.
GOT KICKED OUT OF BIBLE COLLEGE.
IT WAS A NONCHARISMATIC,
WHAT WOULD BE CALLED A CESSATIONIST BIBLE COLLEGE.
AND SO I WENT FOR A YEAR AND A HALF OUT OF THAT,
WAS NOT READMITTED.
MET MY WIFE, GOT MARRIED,
AND IN 1996, TOGETHER WE PLANTED
RADIANT CHURCH IN KALAMAZOO.
SO OVER THE LAST 27 YEARS,
IT'S BEEN AN INCREDIBLE PRIVILEGE TO SEE A CHURCH
FROM THE VERY BEGINNING,
TO WHAT IT IS TODAY,
WHICH IS MULTISITE, MULTITHOUSANDS.
AND THEN WE ALSO HAVE THE PRIVILEGE OF LEADING
ABOUT 80 CHURCHES ACROSS THE UNITED STATES
CALLED THE RADIANT NETWORK.
AND ALSO LEAD SCHOOLS AND A WORSHIP RECORDING LABEL,
AND WRITE A FEW BOOKS,
LIKESCHOOL OF THE SPIRIT.
REBECCA: OH, MY GOODNESS,
SO YOU'VE BEEN BUSY.
LEE: WE'VE HAD OUR HANDS FULL.
REBECCA: YEAH. BUT IT'S ALL POSSIBLE BY THE POWER
AND THE ANOINTING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.
LEE: THAT'S ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.
REBECCA: WHICH WE'RE GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT.
SO, TO START OFF,
WHY DON'T YOU TALK ABOUT WHAT YOU'VE SEEN
IN THE CHURCH IN AMERICA
IN TERMS OF THE CHURCH'S RELATIONSHIP
WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT AND UNCHURCHED.
LEE: THE SUBJECT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT HAS BEEN
UP UNTIL I WOULD SAY EVEN RECENTLY,
A VERY POLARIZING SUBJECT.
YOU HAVE ABOUT HALF THE CHURCH
THAT ACKNOWLEDGES THE EXISTENCE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT
BUT DOESN'T HAVE ANY EXPERIENTIAL
OR RELATIONAL CONNECTIVITY TO THE HOLY SPIRIT.
AND THEN YOU HAVE, IN TRADITIONAL LANGUAGE,
THE PENTECOSTAL AND CHARISMATIC WING OF THE CHURCH
THAT HAS BEEN VERY OPEN
AND VERY EXPERIENTIAL
AND VERY CONNECTED TO THE PERSON OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.
AND RECENTLY WHAT I'VE BEGUN TO SEE HAPPEN,
AND WHEN I SAY RECENTLY,
I MEAN MAYBE THE LAST, LET'S CALL IT DECADE,
IS YOU BEGIN TO SEE THE IMPACT
OF THE CHARISMATIC, PENTECOSTAL WORLD
ON THE EVANGELICAL WORLD.
AND THE EVANGELICAL AND THE SPIRIT-FILLED COMMUNITIES
REALLY COMING TOGETHER
IN A POWERFUL DUO OF WORD AND SPIRIT.
AND I THINK THAT'S REALLY HOPEFUL.
THERE'S ALWAYS GOING TO BE LITTLE FRINGES
OF PEOPLE THAT ARE KIND OF HARDCORE LEGALISTIC
AGAINST ANY PRESENT WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT TODAY.
BUT THERE'S AN INCREDIBLE HUNGER
AND MORE THAN ANYTHING, THAT'S WHAT I THINK MARKS
WHERE WE'RE AT RIGHT NOW,
A HUNGER FOR MORE.
PEOPLE REALLY WANT TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THE HOLY SPIRIT.
THEY WANT TO EXPERIENCE MORE OF THAT.
AND I THINK WE'RE POISEED IN A REALLY GOOD PLACE
TO SEE GOD BREAK IN AND REVIVE THE CHURCH
IN THE AREA OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.
REBECCA: SO YOU SHARE A STORY IN YOUR BOOK
ABOUT HOW YOUR GRANDFATHER TOOK YOU
TO GET SOME CANDY.
TELL US ABOUT THAT.
LEE: YEAH, IT'S ONE OF MY EARLIEST MEMORIES.
REBECCA: HOW OLD WERE YOU?
LEE: I PROBABLY WAS FOUR OR FIVE YEARS OLD.
MY GRANDFATHER WAS HUGE IN MY LIFE,
HE WAS LIKE A DAD.
AND THERE WAS A LITTLE STORE
HE WOULD OFTENTIMES TAKE ME TO
AND IT HAD A HUGE CANDY SECTION.
AND BACK IN THE OLD DAYS, OLD DAYS,
THEY WOULD HAVE PENNY CANDY, NICKEL CANDY,
DIME CANDY AND QUARTER CANDY.
IT WAS ALL KIND OF LOOSE AND IN JARS
OR IN BOXES.
AND SO HE SAID, LEE, I WANT YOU TO GET SOMETHING.
AND SO IMMEDIATELY I WENT UP TO THE PENNY CANDY
BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT I WAS USED TO,
A LITTLE JAW BREAKER OR WHATEVER,
AND HE'S LIKE, NO, NO, YOU DON'T WANT THAT.
AND I KIND OF MOVED DOWN THE AISLE
TO THE NICKEL, TO THE DIME,
AND I GOT TO THE DIME CANDY AND HE'S LIKE,
NO, NO, YOU DON'T WANT THAT.
PICK SOMETHING BIGGER OUT.
AND I GOT TO THE QUARTER CANDY
AND I THOUGHT, THERE IS NO WAY IN THE WORLD
HE'S GONNA LET ME GET THIS.
BUT HE'S LIKE, NO, NO, PICK SOMETHING BIGGER.
HE WANTED ME TO LIKE GET THIS SLO POKE,
THIS HUGE, MEGA-SIZED SLO POKE OR SOMETHING.
AND SO HE WAS TRYING TO ENCOURAGE ME,
BUT IT JUST BLEW MY MIND.
AND SO HE SAID, NO, NO, YOU DON'T WANT THAT,
AND I LOOKED AT HIM AND I SAID,
WELL, GRANDPA, WHAT DO I WANT?
AND HE JUST LAUGHED AT ME.
HE JUST THOUGHT THAT WAS SO FUNNY.
BECAUSE IN HIS MIND, IN HIS HEART,
HE WANTED ME TO GET SOMETHING SO SPECIAL,
SO MEMORABLE,
BUT IN MY LIMITED THINKING
AND MY EXPERIENCE,
THERE WAS NO WAY IN THE WORLD,
I COULD EVEN BELIEVE FOR A QUARTER PIECE OF CANDY.
AND I THINK THAT REALLY SETS THE STAGE
FOR US TO UNDERSTAND WHAT GOD WANTS
FOR EVERY BELIEVER.
EXCEEDINGLY, ABUNDANTLY, ABOVE ALL WE COULD
EVER ASK OR THINK.
BUT SO MANY IN THE CHURCH ARE LIMITED
IN THEIR CAPACITY TO BELIEVE WHAT GOD COULD DO,
WANTS TO DO IN THEIR LIFE OR AT ALL,
BECAUSE OF THEIR EXPERIENCE OR THEIR BIAS
OR THEIR INSECURITIES.
REBECCA: THAT'S SO TRUE.
IT'S SOMETHING I EVEN STRUGGLED WITH MYSELF.
I REMEMBER I GOT A PROPHETIC WORD,
NOW IT'S PROBABLY BEEN ALMOST TEN YEARS AGO,
AND HE SAID JUST DREAM WITH GOD.
AND I DIDN'T EVEN REALLY HAVE THE CAPACITY
TO EVEN DREAM.
BECAUSE I HAD THAT LIMITED THINKING.
AND I THINK LIKE YOU SAID,
OUR EXPERIENCES, I THINK HURT, YOU KNOW.
LEE: YEAH.
REBECCA: AND OUR PERCEPTION OF GOD.
I THINK A LOT OF US HAVE A NOT ACCURATE PERCEPTION
OF THE FATHER,
AND SO WE DON'T EVEN THINK,
WE DON'T EVEN UNDERSTAND HOW MUCH HE LOVES US.
AND SO WE DON'T ASK.
BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT DOES,
IS HE ILLUMINATES OUR HEARTS
AND REVEALS THINGS WITHIN US AND SHOWS US THE TRUTH
AND EXPANDS OUR UNDERSTANDING.
AND I THINK THAT GOD HAS SO MUCH TO GIVE THE CHURCH,
AND HE DOES IT THE WAY HE SET IT UP,
TO BE THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT,
BUT WE DON'T UNDERSTAND BECAUSE IT'S NOT TAUGHT A LOT.
LEE: YEAH.
REBECCA: AND THAT'S WHY I THINK THIS BOOK
IS SO IMPORTANT
BECAUSE I REMEMBER GOING TO BIBLE SCHOOL
AND I GREW UP PENTECOSTAL BACKGROUND.
AND I KNEW ALL ABOUT THE GIFTS
AND THE POWER,
BUT I DID NOT UNDERSTAND THE PERSONHOOD.
AND I REMEMBER MY TEACHER,
I WENT TO A REALLY GREAT SCHOOL,
SHOUT OUT, KING'S UNIVERSITY, JACK HAYFORD.
AND I'M PROUD OF MY ALMA MATER.
BUT I REMEMBER MY PROFESSOR BEING LIKE
THE HOLY SPIRIT IS A PERSON.
AND I PROBABLY LOOKED AT HIM LIKE HE HAD THREE HEADS.
I WAS LIKE, A PERSON?
BECAUSE I NEVER ASSOCIATED HIM AS A PERSON.
AND I REMEMBER BEGINNING TO BREAK DOWN
AND I GOT A WHOLE NEW FOUNDATION
OF SCRIPTURAL TEACHING TALKING ABOUT THAT.
AND I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT, LIKE YOU SAID,
IT HAS TO BE WORD AND SPIRIT,
BUT A LOT OF TIMES YOU FIND ONE OR THE OTHER.
LEE: RIGHT.
REBECCA: BUT I THINK LIKE YOU SAID,
THERE IS A MOVEMENT WHERE I FEEL LIKE
THEY'RE COMING TOGETHER NOW.
WHEREAS MAYBE 30 YEARS AGO, 40 YEARS AGO,
IT WASN'T SUCH THE CASE.
LEE: YEAH.
AND WE MAKE A MISTAKE WHEN WE POLARIZE
THE HOLY SPIRIT AND THE HOLY BIBLE.
REBECCA: MM-HMM.
LEE: WE THINK, WELL, IT'S EITHER THE BIBLE
OR IT'S THE HOLY SPIRIT.
WELL, THE HOLY SPIRIT IS THE ONE WHO INSPIRED
EVERY WORD THAT'S WRITTEN IN OUR HOLY BIBLES.
AND WHEN YOU READ THE BIBLE,
IT ALWAYS POINTS YOU BACK TO JESUS,
BUT JESUS ALWAYS TALKED ABOUT THE ONE
HE WAS GONNA SEND, WHICH IS THE ONE
WHO WOULD LEAD US AND GUIDE US
INTO ALL TRUTH.
AND SO WE MAKE A MISTAKE IN THE BODY OF CHRIST
OF POLARIZING THEM OUT,
OR, YOU KNOW, KIND OF SETTING THEM
ON OPPOSITE SIDES.
AND IT'S LIKE, WELL, ARE YOU A WORD PERSON
OR ARE YOU A HOLY SPIRIT PERSON?
AND IT'S LIKE, YES.
REBECCA: YEAH.
LEE: WE NEED BOTH.
AND, YOU KNOW, THE TRINITY IS NOT
THE FATHER, SON AND HOLY BIBLE.
IT'S THE FATHER, SON AND HOLY SPIRIT.
HE IS A PERSON,
THIRD PERSON OF THE TRIUNE GODHEAD.
AND HE'S THE FORGOTTEN PART OF THE GODHEAD
THAT JESUS WANTS TO REAWAKEN OUR HEARTS TO.
REBECCA: AND WHAT YOU SAY IS SO TRUE.
IN SCRIPTURE, IT'S THERE SO MANY TIMES.
BUT, YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE -
I LOVE THE WAY YOU SAID IT,
IT'S LIKE THE HOLY SPIRIT WILL LEAD YOU TO JESUS,
JESUS REVEALS THE HOLY SPIRIT.
BECAUSE IT'S THREE IN ONE TRIUNE GOD.
AND I WAS THINKING EVEN THE CREATION OF THE WORLD,
IT SAYS IN THE BEGINNING, IT SAYS THE SPIRIT
WAS HOVERING OVER THE WATERS.
LEE: THAT'S RIGHT.
REBECCA: HE WAS THERE.
AND IT SAYS, YOU KNOW, GOD SPOKE,
AND IT'S LIKE HOW DO YOU SPEAK THE WORD?
THROUGH BREATH.
AND SO YOU SEE THE COMBINATION
OF WORD AND SPIRIT
EVEN IN THE CREATION OF THE WORLD.
AND SO WE'VE NEVER BEEN MEANT TO SEPARATE THEM.
BUT, YOU KNOW, I FEEL LIKE THE ENEMY HAS,
HE ALWAYS WANTS TO DIVIDE THE CHURCH
IN SO MANY DIFFERENT WAYS,
AND THAT'S ONE OF THE WAYS HE'S DIVIDED IT.
AND THERE'S WHOLE, YOU KNOW,
DENOMINATIONS OF PEOPLE
MISSING OUT ON THE PERSONHOOD
AND THE POWER AND THE GIFTINGS
OF THE HOLY SPIRIT
BECAUSE THE ENEMY HAS WORKED OFFENSE IN PEOPLE.
THEY GET OFFENDED AT SOMETHING THAT A PERSON DID,
NOT THE HOLY SPIRIT,
AND THEN IT'S JUST A TACTIC I SEE
OVER AND OVER IS OFFENSE.
YOU KNOW, WE GET OFFENDED AND THEN WE JUDGE
AND THEN WE SEPARATE.
AND I THINK IT'S GREAT THAT I FEEL LIKE
THERE'S SUCH A SHIFT, I THINK,
BECAUSE OF THE TIMES WE'RE LIVING IN,
THERE'S THAT HUNGER THAT WE'RE STARTING
TO SEEK THAT OUT IN SO MANY DIFFERENT WAYS.
AND I THINK PEOPLE ARE STARTING TO SEE,
HEY, IT'S NOT WHAT YOU MIGHT THINK.
THERE'S A LOT MORE TO THE HOLY SPIRIT.
LEE: YEAH.
I THINK THAT'S SO GOOD.
AND, YOU KNOW, WE BRING TO OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD,
OUR BIASES, OUR HUNGER AND OUR OFFENSES.
THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT WE BRING EVERY SINGLE DAY
TO OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD.
SO IF YOU'VE GROWN UP IN A RELIGIOUS ENVIRONMENT
THAT SAID GOD DOESN'T DO THESE THINGS ANYMORE,
GOD DID THEM ONCE UPON A TIME,
BUT HE DOESN'T DO THEM ANYMORE,
THAT'S SET YOU UP AT A CERTAIN LEVEL OF EXPECTATION.
BUT IF YOU'RE OFFENDED AT GOD,
MAYBE YOU'VE BEEN IN A CHURCH,
SEEN SOMETHING THAT FELT OUT OF PLACE
THROUGH AN INDIVIDUAL,
OR, YOU KNOW, YOU HAD A BAD EXPERIENCE,
THAT CAN CREATE AN OFFENSE WITHIN YOUR HEART.
MY EXPERIENCE IS, THOUGH,
A LOT OF PEOPLE, IT'S FEAR.
IT'S FEAR-BASED BECAUSE WE'RE AFRAID
OF WHAT WE CAN'T CONTROL.
AND THE HOLY SPIRIT IS NOT GONNA BE TAMED.
YOU KNOW, WHEN HE COMES IN,
HE COMES IN LIKE THE WIND, JESUS SAID.
YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE HE CAME FROM,
AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE HE'S GOING,
BUT WHEN HE COMES, YOU SEE THE EFFECT.
AND FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE, THERE'S A FEAR
THAT IF I OPEN MYSELF UP TO THE WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT,
MAYBE SOMETHING BAD'S GONNA HAPPEN TO ME
OR I'M GONNA LOSE CONTROL OF MY LIFE
OR OF MY TONGUE OR MY HEART, MY EMOTIONS,
AND WE DON'T LIKE TO GIVE UP CONTROL.
BUT THAT'S WHAT YIELDEDNESS IS REALLY ALL ABOUT.
AND THAT'S A BIG PART OF WHAT IT MEANS
TO BE LED BY THE SPIRIT OF GOD.
REBECCA: THAT'S SO TRUE.
AND I THINK THE WHOLE CHRISTIAN LIFE
IS REALLY GIVING UP CONTROL.
AND I THINK THE LONGER YOU LIVE,
THE MORE YOU REALIZE YOU DON'T HAVE CONTROL.
LEE: WE DON'T HAVE THAT MUCH CONTROL.
REBECCA: EVEN IF YOU TRIED TO CONTROL,
YOU REALLY DON'T HAVE CONTROL IN YOUR LIFE.
LEE: THAT'S TRUE.
REBECCA: IT'S BETTER TO PUT IT IN THE HANDS OF THE LORD
AND LET HIM LEAD AND GUIDE YOUR LIFE.
LEE: YES.
REBECCA: WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO THOSE PEOPLE
WHO ARE AFRAID?
LEE: YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT FEAR.
ONE OF THE MOST COMMON FEARS THAT I'VE COME ACROSS
PASTORING PEOPLE ALL THESE YEARS IS,
I'M AFRAID THAT IF I OPEN MY HEART
TO THE WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT IN A PERSONAL WAY,
THAT MAYBE I'M GOING TO GET A DEMON.
MAYBE, YOU KNOW, IF I OPEN MYSELF UP,
I'M GOING TO GET SOME DEMONIC INFLUENCE.
AND THAT SCARES PEOPLE, ON A VERY REAL LEVEL.
BUT JESUS ADDRESSES THIS ISSUE IN LUKE CHAPTER 11.
HE SAYS, YOU EARTHLY FATHERS,
HOW IS IT THAT YOU GIVE GOOD GIFTS,
YOU BEING EVIL,
BUT HOW MUCH MORE WILL YOUR FATHER
GIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT TO YOU IF YOU ASK.
IF YOU ASK HIM FOR THE HOLY SPIRIT,
HE'S NOT GOING TO GIVE YOU A SNAKE OR A SERPENT.
JESUS WAS MAKING IT VERY CLEAR,
WE DON'T HAVE TO BE FEARFUL,
THAT IF WE YIELD OURSELVES TO HIM
IN AN EXPERIENTIAL WAY,
AND SAY, JESUS, I WANT ALL THAT YOU HAVE,
YOU SAID THAT YOU WOULD BAPTIZE US
WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT.
YOU SAID THAT WE'RE TO CONTINUALLY BE FILLED
WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT.
YOU SAID THAT THESE GIFTS ARE AVAILABLE TO ANY OF US
AND THAT WE SHOULD ZEALOUSLY PURSUE
ALL THE GIFTS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.
SO I'M STEPPING OUT AND SAYING, JESUS,
I WANT THOSE.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE AFRAID
BECAUSE THE ENEMY IS NOT GONNA STEP IN -
GOD'S NOT GONNA ALLOW THE ENEMY
TO HAVE ACCESS TO YOUR HEART
IF YOU ARE GENUINELY INVITING HIM, GOD,
TO DO A WORK IN YOUR LIFE.
THAT'S, I THINK, ONE OF THE MOST COMMON FEARS.
REBECCA: SO DIALING IT BACK,
SPEAKING OF JESUS, IS JESUS' LIFE,
I DON'T THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THIS,
I DIDN'T LEARN THIS UNTIL BIBLE SCHOOL,
AND YOU TALK ABOUT THIS IN YOUR BOOK,
IS THAT HIS LIFE IS ACTUALLY AN EXAMPLE
FOR BELIEVERS TO FOLLOW.
LEE: YEAH.
REBECCA: HE WAS THE PERFECT EXAMPLE
OF WHAT GOD HAS CALLED US TO BE, RIGHT?
LEE: THAT'S RIGHT.
REBECCA: AND I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE JUST THINK
JESUS WAS GOD, AND ONLY HE COULD DO WHAT HE DID,
BUT JESUS SAYS YOU WILL DO GREATER THINGS IN MY NAME.
LEE: YEAH.
REBECCA: AND SO EXPLAIN HOW JESUS
HAD A RELATIONSHIP WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT
AND DID MINISTRY THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT.
LEE: YEAH.
LUKE WRITES IN ACTS CHAPTER 10, VERSE 38,
HE SAYS AFTER THE FACT,
HE SAYS HOW GOD ANOINTED JESUS OF NAZARETH
WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT AND POWER
WHO WENT ABOUT DOING GOOD
AND HEALING ALL OF THOSE WHO WERE OPPRESSED
BY THE ENEMY, OR BY THE DEVIL.
SO THINK ABOUT THAT.
LUKE IS RECORDING FOR US
THAT THE WAY JESUS DID MINISTRY
WAS NOT BY ACCESSING HIS DIVINITY.
HE COULD HAVE.
HE WAS GOD.
BUT PAUL WRITES IN PHILIPPIANS CHAPTER 2,
LET THE SAME ATTITUDE BE IN YOU
WHICH WAS ALSO IN CHRIST JESUS,
WHO BEING IN THE FORM OF GOD
DID NOT CONSIDER EQUALITY WITH GOD
SOMETHING TO BE GRASPED,
BUT HE EMPTIED HIMSELF,
CAME IN THE FORM OF A SERVANT IN THE LIKENESS OF MEN.
SO IT SAYS HE EMPTIED HIMSELF.
SO THERE WAS A PERIOD OF TIME
WHERE JESUS, THE ETERNAL WORD OF GOD,
STEPPED INTO HISTORY AND ALLOWED HIMSELF TO BE LIMITED.
AND ONE OF THE WAYS THAT HE WAS LIMITED WAS
HE DIDN'T ALWAYS ACCESS HIS DIVINITY
IN ORDER TO PERFORM MIRACLES.
TOO MANY PEOPLE MAKE THAT MISTAKE.
THEY THINK, WELL, OF COURSE HE DID THAT,
HE'S GOD.
HE COULD HAVE, BUT HE DIDN'T.
AND WE SEE IN THE GOSPELS
THAT JESUS DID NOT PERFORM ONE MIRACLE,
PREACH ONE SERMON,
CAST OUT ONE DEMON,
UNTIL AFTER HIS BAPTISM
WHEN THE HOLY SPIRIT CAME LIKE A DOVE
AND RESTED UPON HIM.
THAT'S WHAT LUKE IS REFERRING TO.
FROM THAT DAY FORWARD,
IMMEDIATELY HE WAS DRIVEN INTO THE WILDERNESS.
IT'S THE FIRST TIME THAT WE RECOGNIZE
THAT THE DEVIL RECOGNIZED HIM
AND CAME AND TEMPTED HIM.
AND HE BEGINS HIS MINISTRY.
AND THROUGHOUT ALL OF HIS MINISTRY,
IT WAS MARKED BY A DEPENDENCY
IN THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT UPON HIS LIFE.
HE WAS ANOINTED.
THAT'S REALLY WHAT CHRIST MEANS, BY THE WAY.
CHRIST IS NOT JESUS' LAST TIME.
YOU COULDN'T LOOK UP IN A PHONE BOOK
AND GO JESUS AND THEN CHRIST.
IT MEANT JESUS, THE ANOINTED ONE.
WELL, WHAT WAS HE ANOINTED WITH?
THE HOLY SPIRIT.
JESUS WAS ANOINTED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT,
AND HIS POWER WAS A RESULT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT UPON HIM.
JESUS DID THAT IN ORDER TO GIVE US A PATTERN
AS A PROTOTYPE OF HOW WE AS HIS DISCIPLES
SHOULD DO MINISTRY.
THIS IS WHAT HE TAUGHT HIS DISCIPLES FOR THREE YEARS.
THIS IS WHAT HE HANDS OFF TO THEM
IN ACTS CHAPTER 1,
AWAITING ACTS CHAPTER 2,
AN OUTPOURING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.
AND THAT'S HOW WE SEE THE EARLY CHURCH
FUNCTIONING AND OPERATING.
UNFORTUNATELY, AT SOME POINT IN CHURCH HISTORY,
WE BECAME CONVINCED
THAT WE COULD DO IT IN OUR OWN STRENGTH,
AND BY OUR OWN METHODS AND OUR OWN INTELLECT,
AND THAT WE DIDN'T NEED THE HOLY SPIRIT ANY LONGER.
AND THAT'S WHAT'S LED TO MANY OF THE PROBLEMS
IN THE CHURCH.
REBECCA: WOW.
HOW DID THE HOLY SPIRIT IMPACT, BECAUSE -
WELL, THERE'S TWO THINGS I WANT TO TALK ABOUT,
SO I'M GONNA FOCUS ON ONE.
HOW DID THE HOLY SPIRIT IMPACT
JESUS' RELATIONSHIP WITH THE FATHER?
HOW DID THAT WORK OUT?
BECAUSE I EVEN THINK THAT'S KIND OF
DEMONSTRATED IN THE GOSPELS.
LEE: YEAH.
YOU KNOW, THE HOLY SPIRIT, THE TRIUNITY OF GOD,
THE FATHER, SON AND HOLY SPIRIT,
IS SUCH A GREAT MYSTERY
OF HOW THAT HAPPENS.
BUT WHAT WE DO IS THAT
EVEN BEFORE THE FOUNDATIONS OF THE WORLD
WERE EVER ESTABLISHED,
JESUS, THE FATHER, OR THE WORD,
THE FATHER AND THE SPIRIT
WERE IN PERFECT COMMUNITY.
IT WAS PERFECT LOVE.
IT WAS PERFECT COMMUNITY.
WELL, THAT DID NOT CHANGE WHEN JESUS
STEPPED INTO HISTORY AND INTO HUMANITY.
AND SO THERE WAS THIS RELATIONSHIP WHERE
VERY OFTEN JESUS WOULD GET AWAY
AND HE WOULD GO AND HE WOULD PRAY.
AND HE WOULD PRAY TO THE FATHER,
SOMETIMES ALL NIGHT LONG.
THE BIBLE RECORDS, IT SAYS,
HE WENT TO A DESOLATE PLACE
AND HE WOULD PRAY, HE WOULD PRAY TO THE FATHER.
AND I KNOW THE HOLY SPIRIT WAS PRESENT THERE AS WELL.
SO IT'S THIS REUNION OF SORTS,
OF FATHER, SON AND HOLY SPIRIT.
AND THEN YOU WOULD SEE JESUS COME
AND IT SAYS HE CAME OUT OF THE WILDERNESS OF TEMPTATION,
CAME OFF THE MOUNTAIN,
AND HE CAME IN THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.
SO THERE WAS THIS DIVINE PARTNERSHIP
BETWEEN FATHER, SON AND HOLY SPIRIT
THAT MARKED JESUS' MINISTRY.
AND IT WAS BEAUTIFUL.
AND IT'S A PROTOTYPE OF HOW WE'RE SUPPOSED
TO DO MINISTRY HERE.
JESUS REVEALS THE FATHER,
THE FATHER HAS GIVEN THE SON,
AND THE SON SENDS THE HOLY SPIRIT.
IT'S BEAUTIFUL.
AND IF WE ONLY GET TWO OUT OF THREE,
WE'RE MISSING OUT ON SO MUCH.
BECAUSE THE HOLY SPIRIT IS MEANT TO BE
SO MUCH MORE THAN A SILENT PARTNER.
I MEAN, THINK ABOUT IT.
IF YOU LIVED ON A DESERT ISLAND,
HAD NEVER READ THE BIBLE BEFORE,
SOMEBODY HANDS YOU A BIBLE AND SAYS
START HERE IN MATTHEW
AND READ THROUGH THE BOOK OF ACTS,
GOSPELS AND ACTS.
AND THEN AFTER READING THAT, THEY ASKED YOU
IF YOU WERE CALLED TO BE A DISCIPLE
OF THIS ONE CALLED JESUS,
HOW WOULD YOU BELIEVE
THAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO DO MINISTRY?
NOBODY WOULD BE A CESSATIONIST.
NOBODY WOULD COME UP WITH THE ANSWERS THAT WE HAVE TODAY.
WE WOULD LOOK AT THAT PATTERN AND SAY,
THIS IS WHAT JESUS DID,
THIS IS WHAT JESUS SAID,
THIS IS WHAT HIS DISCIPLES DID,
THIS IS WHAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO DO.
WE'VE COMPLICATED IT SO MUCH.
REBECCA: THERE IS A PROFOUND VERSE WHERE IT SAYS
THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT SEARCHES
THE DEEP THINGS OF GOD
AND LIKE REVEALS THAT TO US.
I'M NOT QUOTING IT PERFECTLY.
LEE: 1 CORINTHIANS CHAPTER 2.
REBECCA: YES.
AND IT JUST SHOWS THAT -
I'LL TRY TO WORD THIS CORRECTLY.
BUT THAT JESUS SENDS THE HOLY SPIRIT
AFTER HE ASCENDS.
AND BEFORE HE, YOU KNOW, DIES ON THE CROSS
AND BEFORE HE ASCENDS TO HEAVEN 40 DAYS LATER,
HE STARTS UNPACKING IT TO HIS DISCIPLES.
AND HE'S DESCRIBING WHO THE HOLY SPIRIT IS.
AND HE SAYS THAT HE WILL REVEAL JESUS TO THEM.
AND HE WILL ONLY SPEAK WHAT THE LORD TELLS THEM.
I FEEL LIKE I'M BOTCHING THIS SCRIPTURE.
LEE: YOU'RE DOING GREAT.
REBECCA: BREAK DOWN WHAT JESUS WAS TELLING HIS DISCIPLES,
I'M THINKING LIKE JOHN 14, 15, 16.
LEE: YEAH.
THOSE ARE POWERFUL CHAPTERS.
CHAPTER 13 THROUGH 17,
FINISHING WITH HIS HIGH PRIESTLY PRAYER,
IT'S THE LAST FEW DAYS THAT JESUS HAS
WITH HIS DISCIPLES, RIGHT?
AND SO WHAT YOU SAY LAST MATTERS THE MOST.
AND SO WHAT JESUS ZEROS IN ON
IN JOHN 14 THROUGH 16,
IS HE SAYS TO HIS DISCIPLES,
HE SAYS, I'M GOING AWAY.
HE'S TALKING ABOUT THE CROSS AND THE RESURRECTION.
HE SAYS I'M GOING AWAY,
BUT IT'S TO YOUR ADVANTAGE THAT I GO AWAY,
BECAUSE IF I DON'T DEPART,
THE COMFORTER, THE HOLY SPIRIT, THE HELPER,
WILL NOT BE SENT TO YOU.
AND THEN HE DESCRIBES HIM.
HE SAYS HE'S GONNA LEAD AND GUIDE YOU INTO ALL TRUTH.
HE SAID HE WILL TAKE UP IN HIS MIND
AND GIVE IT TO YOU.
HE'LL CALL INTO REMEMBRANCE EVERYTHING
I'VE GIVEN TO YOU.
AND HE SAYS I WILL NOT LEAVE YOU AS ORPHANS,
BUT I'M GOING TO SEND A HELPER.
AND THAT WORD HELPER IS A GREEK WORDPARACLETE.
IT MEANS ONE WHO COMES UP ALONGSIDE AND HELPS.
THINK OF LIKE A SHERPA.
IF YOU'RE CLIMBING MOUNT EVEREST,
THEY ALWAYS ASSIGNED A SHERPA TO YOU.
IT CARRIES YOUR LUGGAGE,
SHOWS YOU THE WAY,
IT BEARS THE BURDEN FOR YOU.
THAT'S WHAT JESUS SAYS THE HOLY SPIRIT'S GONNA DO.
AND HE'S VERY CLEAR,
HE SAYS HE'S NOT JUST GONNA COME UPON YOU,
HE'S GONNA DWELL WITHIN YOU.
IF I'M ONE OF THE DISCIPLES
AND I HEAR JESUS SAY THAT,
I'M SAYING, HOW IS IT ADVANTAGEOUS
FOR YOU TO GO AWAY?
HOW IS IT GOING TO GET ANY BETTER?
BUT JESUS SAID IT IS.
AND THE REASON WHY IS WHEN JESUS WAS HERE,
HE COULD ONLY BE AT ONE PLACE ONE TIME
WITH A CERTAIN GROUP OF 12,
MAYBE A FEW MORE.
BUT SINCE JESUS SENT THE HOLY SPIRIT TO THE CHURCH,
HE'S NOT JUST WITH ALL OF US,
HE'S IN US.
AND JESUS SAID THAT IS THE X FACTOR.
THAT'S THE ADVANTAGE OF THE CHURCH.
AND HERE IT IS, JESUS GIVES US THE CLUE
ABOUT WHO THE HOLY SPIRIT IS,
THAT HE'S GONNA DWELL WITHIN US,
WE'RE HIS TEMPLE.
AND HE SAYS THAT'S YOUR ADVANTAGE.
BUT YET HERE WE SEE THE CHURCH,
ESPECIALLY IN WEST, IN THE WEST,
WESTERN CIVILIZATION,
WHERE WE'VE GOT THIS INCREDIBLE ADVANTAGE,
THIS X FACTOR,
BUT WE NEGATE IT 90 PERCENT OF THE TIME,
OR HOWEVER MANY PERCENTAGE OF THE TIME.
BUT WE DON'T LEAN INTO IT.
AND MY EXPERIENCE IS,
WE NEED TO LEAN INTO EVERY ADVANTAGE THAT WE HAVE.
AND IF THE HOLY SPIRIT IS GONNA GLORIFY JESUS,
HE'S GONNA REVEAL MORE AND MORE
OF THE THINGS THAT JESUS HAS GIVEN TO US,
THE SCRIPTURE YOU MADE REFERENCE TO
IS 1 CORINTHIANS CHAPTER 2 WHERE IT SAYS,
IT'S THE SPIRIT OF GOD THAT SEARCHES OUT
THE DEEP THINGS OF GOD.
SO WE HAVE TWO GREAT INTERCESSORS,
JESUS, WHO SITS AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD THE FATHER,
INTERCEDING FOR US AS OUR HIGH PRIEST.
AND THEN WE HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT,
WHO, ACCORDING TO ROMANS 8,
MAKES INTERCESSION FOR US WITH GROANINGS
AND UTTERANCES TOO DEEP FOR WORDS
ACCORDING TO THE WILL OF GOD.
SO WE HAVE TWO GREAT INTERCESSORS ON OUR BEHALF.
ONE IN HEAVEN, ONE IN US.
THIS IS OUR INCREDIBLE ADVANTAGE.
REBECCA: AND SPEAKING OF THAT VERSE,
WHAT'S INTERESTING IS,
THAT VERY VERSE YOU WERE QUOTING,
THE VERSE THAT COMES AFTER THAT,
AND GOD WORKS TOGETHER FOR THE GOOD OF THOSE -
ALL THINGS TOGETHER FOR THE GOOD OF THOSE WHO LOVE HIM
ACCORDING TO HIS PURPOSE.
BUT RIGHT BEFORE IT IT'S TALKING ABOUT
HOW THE HOLY SPIRIT INTERCEDES THROUGH US.
I REMEMBER, I THINK IT WAS JACK HAYFORD,
HE SAID WE'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO SEPARATE THOSE TWO.
LEE: RIGHT.
REBECCA: HOW DOES GOD WORK IT,
HE INTERCEDES THROUGH US
AND THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT
AND THEN HE WORKS IT ALL TOGETHER.
BUT SO MANY TIMES WE CHOP UP THE BIBLE,
AND WE SEPARATE THINGS THAT AREN'T MEANT
TO BE SEPARATED.
LEE: THAT'S SO TRUE.
REBECCA: ANOTHER THING, YOU ACTUALLY LED
TO MY NEXT QUESTION IN ROMANS 8,
IS IT TALKS ABOUT HOW BY THE SPIRIT WE CRY,
I THINK IT SAYS, ABBA FATHER.
AND I WAS THINKING WHEN JESUS IS SPEAKING
TO HIS DISCIPLES,
HE SAYS, I WILL NOT LEAVE YOU AS ORPHANS.
AND HOW THE HOLY SPIRIT, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HE DOES,
IS HE REMINDS US OF OUR SONSHIP IN HIM.
AND WHEN WE'RE BORN INTO THIS WORLD,
WE'RE ALL BORN INTO SIN.
WE'RE ALL BORN REJECTED BY GOD.
LEE: YEAH.
REBECCA: BUT WHEN WE RECEIVE SALVATION,
WE ARE ACCEPTED BECAUSE OF THE BLOOD OF JESUS.
SO SPEAK TO HOW THE HOLY SPIRIT
TEACHES US THAT WE ARE NO LONGER ORPHANS
AND TAKES THAT ORPHAN MENTALITY
AND TEACHES US SONSHIP.
LEE: WELL, THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT.
ROMANS 8 SAYS THAT THOSE WHO ARE
SONS AND DAUGHTERS OF GOD
ARE THOSE WHO ARE LED BY THE SPIRIT OF GOD.
ONE OF THE PARTS OF OUR INHERITANCE
THAT IS GIVEN TO US AS CHILDREN OF GOD
IS THE HOLY SPIRIT LEADS US.
SO IF YOU'RE LED BY THE SPIRIT OF GOD,
THAT MEANS YOU'RE A CHILD OF GOD.
AND THEN IT SAYS THAT HIS SPIRIT INSIDE OF US
CRIES OUT, ABBA FATHER.
IT'S THE HOLY SPIRIT WHO TEACHES US
WHO WE ARE.
HE SPEAKS INTO OUR IDENTITY.
ROMANS 8 ALSO SAYS THAT WE'RE NO LONGER
SUBJECT TO BONDAGE,
TO THE BONDAGE OF THE LAW,
OR THE BONDAGE OF SIN.
BECAUSE IT'S THE HOLY SPIRIT WHO WORKS IN US
IN SALVATION,
AND PART OF THE SANCTIFYING WORK
OF THE HOLY SPIRIT
IS HE'S REVEALING TO US WHO GOD IS,
BUT HE'S ALSO REVEALING WHO WE ARE.
HE ACTUALLY GIVES US THE ABILITY
TO SAY TO GOD,
YOU'RE MY FATHER.
AND THERE'S MORE TO THAT THAN JUST WORDS.
IT'S ONE THING TO CALL SOMEONE FATHER.
YOU KNOW, I'VE PASTORED SO MANY PEOPLE
THAT HAVE GONE THROUGH THE ADOPTION PROCESS,
ESPECIALLY WITH OLDER KIDS, FIVE, SIX YEARS OLD.
AND WHEN A CHILD HAS BEEN AN ORPHAN IN AN ORPHANAGE
FOR THE FIRST FIVE OR SIX FORMATIVE YEARS OF THEIR LIFE,
ESPECIALLY BOYS,
THEY HAVE WHAT'S CALLED DETACHMENT DISORDER,
WHERE THEY'VE NOT BEEN NURTURED.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT A FATHER DOES,
IS HE COMMUNICATES IDENTITY.
AND THEY HAVEN'T HAD THAT IN THEIR LIFE.
AND SO IT'S VERY DIFFICULT FOR PARENTS
WHEN THEY ADOPT A CHILD
THAT'S FIVE OR SIX YEARS OLD OR OLDER,
BECAUSE THE CHILD CAN SAY THE RIGHT THINGS.
HE MIGHT CALL THEM DAD.
BUT HIS HEART DOESN'T BELIEVE YET THAT HE REALLY
IS LOVED AND ACCEPTED.
AND THAT TAKES A LONG TIME.
A LOT OF COUNSELING, A LOT OF WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT,
A LOT OF PATIENCE BY THE PARENTS.
AND THAT'S VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT HAPPENS TO US
IN OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD.
SO MUCH OF WHAT WE STRUGGLE WITH,
IN FOLLOWING JESUS,
HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FAITHFULNESS OF THE FATHER.
IT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH US BECOMING CONVINCED
THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO EARN HIS LOVE;
THAT HE'S NEVER GOING TO LEAVE US OR FORSAKE US;
THAT WE'RE NOT WHO WE USED TO BE,
THAT OUR SINS REALLY WERE FORGIVEN.
THAT WE'RE NOTICED, THAT WE'RE SIGNIFICANT.
AND THAT IS THE WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT IN US,
SANCTIFYING US.
IT BEGINS WITH GIVING US THE ABILITY TO SAY ABBA,
WHICH IS A TERM OF INTIMACY AND ENDEARMENT.
TO BE ABLE TO SAY NOT JUST THE WORDS,
BUT TO BELIEVE IT.
BUT THEN THE HOLY SPIRIT THROUGHOUT ALL
THE DAYS OF OUR LIVES IN FOLLOWING JESUS,
KEEPS BRINGING US BACK TO THIS REALITY
THAT WE'RE LOVED, WE'RE ACCEPTED,
WE'RE NOT FOREIGNERS ANY LONGER,
WE'RE NOT ENEMIES OF GOD,
WE'RE NOT STRANGERS.
BUT THAT WE'RE KNOWN, THAT WE'RE SEEN,
THAT WE'RE LOVED.
EPHESIANS 1 SAYS WE'RE ACCEPTED IN THE BELOVED.
THAT HE HAS LAVISHED HIS LOVE ON US IN CHRIST JESUS.
HEBREWS SAYS HE'LL NEVER LEAVE US NOR FORSAKE US.
JESUS SAID TO HIS DISCIPLES IN MATTHEW 28,
I'M WITH YOU TO THE END OF THE AGE.
AND THAT'S ONE OF THE, I THINK ONE OF
THE MOST BEAUTIFUL THINGS THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT DOES,
IS HE BEGINS TO FORM OUR NEW IDENTITY IN CHRIST JESUS
AND CONVINCE US THAT GOD'S TRUE AND THE LIES ARE FALSE.
REBECCA: YEAH.
BECAUSE I THINK LIFE AND HURT
AND A LOT OF TIMES WHEN WE EXPERIENCE HURT,
THE ENEMY COMES IN AND WHISPERS A LIE
THAT WE ATTACH TO THE HURT.
AND THEN WE LABEL OURSELVES WITH THAT.
OH, I'M NOT GOOD ENOUGH,
OR I'M THIS, I'M THAT.
AND IT TAKES TIME.
AND I'M SO THANKFUL,
OUT OF ALL THE THINGS I FEEL LIKE GOD HAS DONE
THROUGH RELATIONSHIP,
THE THING THAT I HEAR THE MOST
IS THAT HE'S PROUD OF ME AND THAT HE LOVES ME.
AND I'VE BEEN WALKING WITH THE LORD FOR ALMOST -
I COMMITTED MY LIFE, GREW UP IN CHURCH,
BUT I COMMITTED MY LIFE TO CHRIST AT 19.
I'M 31 NOW.
AND HE STILL, TO THIS DAY,
TELLS ME THAT KIND OF STUFF
AND I NEED IT.
I NEED IT MORE THAN ANYTHING.
AND I'M JUST SO THANKFUL FOR THAT.
AND I THINK THERE'S SO MANY PEOPLE THAT ARE HUNGRY
AND THEY'RE SEARCHING FOR THAT.
BUT THEY'RE SEARCHING FOR IT
IN ALL THE WRONG PLACES.
BECAUSE THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT THE CRY
OF THEIR HEART IS THAT.
I REMEMBER SOMETHING SOMEONE TAUGHT ME WAS,
THE SOUL KNOWS IT NEEDS SOMETHING,
BUT THE SOUL DOESN'T KNOW WHAT IT NEEDS.
THE SOUL KNOWS IT'S CRYING OUT FOR SOMETHING,
BUT IT WILL LEAD YOU THE WRONG WAY.
THAT'S WHY THE BIBLE SAYS,
WE HAVE TO BE LED BY THE SPIRIT OF GOD.
LEE: RIGHT.
REBECCA: THE BIBLE SAYS THE HEART IS DECEPTIVELY WICKED,
YOU KNOW, WHO CAN TRUST IT.
AND IT JUST GOES BACK TO
THAT WE CAN'T LEAN UNTO OURSELVES,
WE HAVE TO FOLLOW THE SPIRIT.
LEE: RIGHT.
REBECCA: AND HE, GOD KNOWS WHAT WE NEED
AND HE KNOWS WHAT WE NEED WHEN WE NEED IT.
AND IT JUST GOES BACK TO SURRENDERING TO HIM
AND THEN TRUSTING HIM.
LEE: AND SO MUCH OF WHAT'S GOING ON
CULTURALLY RIGHT NOW
ON THE ISSUE OF IDENTITY AND CONFUSION,
HAS TO DO WITH COMING UNDER THE INFLUENCE
OF THE SPIRIT OF THIS AGE.
BECAUSE IT'S A SPIRIT OF ERROR.
1 JOHN CALLS IT A SPIRIT OF ERROR
VERSUS A SPIRIT OF TRUTH.
A SPIRIT OF TRUTH, WHICH JESUS CALLS THE HOLY SPIRIT,
WILL ALWAYS LEAD YOU IN THE TRUTH
OR INTO YOUR IDENTITY AS A SON OR DAUGHTER OF GOD.
BUT WHAT WE'RE WITNESSING IN OUR GENERATION RIGHT NOW
ON A SCALE THAT WE'VE NEVER SEEN BEFORE,
IS IN THE VOID OF THE SPIRIT LEADING,
AND GIVING US OUR IDENTITY IN CHRIST,
THE SPIRIT OF THIS AGE, WHICH IS A DECEPTIVE SPIRIT,
HAS COME IN AND BROUGHT CONFUSION AND DESTRUCTION.
TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION THAT YOU JUST -
WHO AM I?
WHAT'S THE SIGNIFICANCE OF MY LIFE?
AM I LOVED?
WHERE DO I BELONG?
MUCH OF WHAT WE SEE EVEN IN THE LGBTQ+ COMMUNITY
THAT'S BEEN ON THE RISE,
WITH SO MUCH OF IT BEING DESTRUCTIVE,
WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO EACH INDIVIDUAL LIFE,
WHAT THEY'RE REALLY LOOKING FOR
IS WHERE DO I BELONG?
REBECCA: UH-HUH.
LEE: WHAT'S MY IDENTITY, WHO AM I?
AND THE CHURCH HASN'T ALWAYS DONE A GOOD JOB
OF COMMUNICATING WHO WE ARE CALLED TO BE
IN CHRIST JESUS.
NEW CREATIONS.
OLD THINGS PASSED AWAY.
AND WHEN THE CHURCH DOESN'T ANSWER THE QUESTIONS
THAT CULTURE IS ASKING,
SOMEBODY ELSE WILL.
AND IT WON'T LEAD TO LIFE
AND IT WON'T LEAD TO TRUTH.
REBECCA: I THINK ONE OF THE BIGGEST THINGS,
MISTAKES THAT WE MAKE IS
NOT TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING.
BECAUSE LIKE YOU SAID,
IF YOU DON'T TALK ABOUT SOMETHING,
THAT'S WHERE THE ENEMY HAS FREE REIN
TO BASICALLY SPREAD WHATEVER LIES.
LEE: YEAH.
REBECCA: BUT AT THE SAME TIME THE THING
THAT'S REALLY INTERESTING
AND I DO THINK IT'S IMPORTANT,
IS WE HAVE TO SEPARATE THE AGENDA THAT'S BEING PUSHED
AND THE PEOPLE WHO ARE STRUGGLING.
BECAUSE I THINK SOMETIMES CHRISTIANS SEE
THIS RAMPANT AGENDA BEING PUSHED,
BUT THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE REALLY HURTING
AND ARE STRUGGLING AND THEY NEED GOD.
THEY NEED THAT IDENTITY.
AND YOU KNOW WHAT DOES THE DEVIL DO?
HE'S CHAOS.
HE'S CONFUSION.
THE BIBLE TALKS ABOUT ALL THESE THINGS.
LEE: THAT'S RIGHT.
REBECCA: AND SO WE HAVE TO SEE A HURTING COMMUNITY
AND COME ALONGSIDE THEM
AND LOVE THEM AND SPEAK THE TRUTH AND BE THERE.
LEE: THAT'S RIGHT.
REBECCA: AND I JUST THINK, YOU KNOW,
I FEEL LIKE THE PENDULUM HAS SWUNG
IN THE CHURCH TO TWO DIFFERENT EXTREMES.
IT WAS LIKE NO ACCEPTANCE,
YOU KNOW, GOING TO HELL, ALL THIS KIND OF STUFF,
AND THEN IT'S LIKE AFFIRMATION AND ACCEPTANCE.
LEE: RIGHT.
REBECCA: AND IT'S SOMEWHERE MORE IN THE MIDDLE.
LEE: YEAH.
WELL, IT'S TRUTH AND GRACE.
WE SAW JESUS COME, JOHN CHAPTER 1.
HE CAME FULL OF GRACE AND TRUTH.
AND WE NEED THAT.
I MEAN IT'S EASY TO,
IT'S EASY TO OBJECTIFY A GROUP OF PEOPLE,
BUT WHEN YOU SIT DOWN WITH SOMEONE INDIVIDUALLY,
AND THIS IS WHAT JESUS WAS A MASTER AT,
EVEN THE WOMAN AT THE WELL,
THE SAMARITAN WOMAN, RIGHT,
I MEAN, HERE SHE IS CAUGHT.
SHE'S A WOMAN WHO'S BEEN DIVORCED.
SHE'S LIVING WITH SOMEBODY.
SHE'S BY HERSELF BECAUSE NOBODY ELSE TRUSTS HER,
WANTS TO BE AROUND HER.
SHE'S A SAMARITAN.
AND JESUS GOES RIGHT AT HER.
IN FACT, IF YOU READ THE OPENING OF THAT CHAPTER
IN JOHN 4,
HE TOLD HIS DISCIPLES, I MUST GO THROUGH SAMARIA.
BECAUSE HE HAD AN APPOINTMENT WITH
THIS WOMAN AT THE WELL.
THINK ABOUT THAT.
GOD THE FATHER SAW HER IN HER BROKENNESS
AND SENT JESUS TO HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH HER.
AND WHEN JESUS DID HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH HER,
HE DEMONSTRATED LOVE AND TRUTH TO HER,
BUT HE DIDN'T PULL ANY PUNCHES.
REBECCA: YEAH.
LEE: HE DIDN'T PULL ANY PUNCHES.
AND THAT'S THE MODEL FOR THE CHURCH.
I MEAN, I REALLY BELIEVE
THAT THE CHURCH IN AMERICA
HAS BELIEVED A LIE
THAT GOD CAN SAVE AND CHANGE ANYBODY
EXCEPT SOMEBODY WHO'S GAY OR TRANS.
THAT'S OFF-LIMITS.
GOD CAN'T DO THAT.
THEY'RE BORN THIS WAY.
WELL, CAN WE BE HONEST?
WE'RE ALL BORN INTO SIN.
REBECCA: EXACTLY.
LEE: EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US.
WE ALL ARE ENEMIES OF GOD.
WE ALL ARE A MESS.
NONE OF US CAN FIX OURSELVES.
WE ALL NEED THE CROSS.
AND THE GOOD NEWS IS THAT GOD OFFERS GRACE
TO ANYONE WHO WILL CALL UPON HIS NAME.
IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO YOU ARE,
WHAT YOU'VE DONE,
WHERE YOU'VE BEEN.
WE EITHER BELIEVE IN THE TRANSFORMATIVE
POWER OF THE GOSPEL, OR WE DON'T.
REBECCA: EXACTLY.
IT EITHER WORKS OR IT DOESN'T FOR EVERYONE.
LEE: THAT'S RIGHT.
REBECCA: FOR ALL HAVE SINNED.
AND I THINK ABOUT, SOME OF MY FAVORITE -
I'M SO THANKFUL FOR THE BELIEVERS THAT HAVE SHARED
THEIR TESTIMONIES.
I THINK ABOUT LIKE JACKIE HILL PERRY,
I THINK ABOUT LIKE BECCA COOK.
WHAT'S INTERESTING WITH BOTH OF THEIR STORIES IS
THAT THE FOCUS WAS A LOVE FOR GOD
AND A SUBMISSION TO HIM.
LEE: YEAH.
REBECCA: AND WITH ALL OF US,
I THINK DEALING WITH ANY SIN,
THAT'S WHERE IT BASICALLY ENDS UP,
IS THAT YOU PUT GOD FIRST
AND YOU SUBMIT YOUR LIFE UNDER HIM
AND UNDER HIS LORDSHIP.
AND WHATEVER HE ADDRESSES, HE ADDRESSES.
AND WE HAVE TO,
EITHER WE'RE GONNA SUBMIT TO THAT,
WE'RE GONNA OBEY OR WE'RE NOT.
AND THAT'S WHERE THE TRANSFORMATION BEGINS.
YOU KNOW, THE DEVIL WANTS US TO FOCUS ON
OUR BROKENNESS OR OUR SIN,
BUT GOD WANTS US TO FOCUS ON WHO HE IS,
WHAT HE'S DONE AND WHO WE ARE IN HIM.
LEE: YEAH.
REBECCA: AND AS WE BEGIN TO FOCUS ON THOSE THINGS,
A TRANSFORMATION BEGINS TO HAPPEN.
EVEN WITH MYSELF, I STRUGGLED WITH UNDERSTANDING,
WHICH IS WEIRD, BECAUSE I'M LIKE A PK,
BUT I STRUGGLE TO UNDERSTAND SALVATION.
WHAT WAS IT LIKE TO BE A CHRISTIAN.
I DON'T KNOW WHY I PICKED UP THIS NOTION
THAT IT WAS ABOUT FOLLOWING RULES.
I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S BECAUSE I GREW UP IN MINISTRY,
AND I SAW -
I THINK I DEFINITELY WAS AFFECTED BY
SEEING MINISTERS FAIL.
LEE: YEP.
REBECCA: AND THEN THEM BASICALLY BE REJECTED
AND THEY NEVER GET PUT BACK INTO MINISTRY.
LEE: YEP.
REBECCA: IT WAS PRETTY HARSH GROWING UP
HOW THEY HANDLED PEOPLE.
AND I THINK I WAS LIKE, I KNOW I'M GONNA MESS UP
AT SOME POINT.
AND SO I WAS JUST LIKE, I CAN'T DO THIS.
I CAN'T FOLLOW ALL THESE RULES PERFECTLY.
AND I REMEMBER GOD SPEAKING TO ME WHEN I WAS
17 AND HE SAID,
BECAUSE I SAID GOD, I WANT TO FOLLOW YOU AND ALL THIS
KIND OF STUFF
AND I DON'T KNOW HOW.
AND HE SAID ABIDE IN ME AND I'LL ABIDE IN YOU.
AND HE WAS SPEAKING, I THINK THAT'S JOHN -
LEE: JOHN 15.
REBECCA: JOHN 15.
HE WAS SPEAKING JOHN 15 TO ME
WHICH IS BASICALLY THE LAYOUT
OF WHAT GOD CALLS US TO BE IN SALVATION,
WHICH IS WE ABIDE IN HIM.
WE HAVE RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM.
AND GOD THE FATHER,
HE'S THE GARDENER, THE VINEDRESSER,
HE'S GONNA PRUNE US.
IT'S NOT ALWAYS GONNA BE EASY,
BUT THE HOLY SPIRIT IN US,
THE RELATIONSHIP THAT WE HAVE WITH CHRIST
IS WE ABIDE IN HIM.
HE WILL PRODUCE SPIRITUAL FRUIT.
HE WILL DO IT IN US.
WE DON'T PRODUCE LOVE, JOY, PEACE, PATIENCE, KINDNESS,
GENTLENESS OUT OF OUR OWN.
ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS GET MARRIED AND HAVE KIDS,
AND YOU REALIZE YOU DON'T HAVE THAT MUCH OF IT.
LEE: THAT'S RIGHT.
REBECCA: I FEEL LIKE GETTING MARRIED AND HAVING KIDS,
IS A GOOD WAY OF EXPOSING YOUR SHORTCOMINGS.
LEE: IT'S A GREAT DISCIPLESHIP TOOL.
REBECCA: YEAH.
AND HOW MUCH YOU NEED THE LORD.
BUT IT COMES FROM ABIDING IN HIM,
SPENDING TIME WITH HIM,
STUDYING HIS WORD.
AND A LOT OF TIMES PEOPLE FOCUS
ON THE GIFTS OF THE SPIRIT
FOR PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, THAT ARE OPEN
TO THE HOLY SPIRIT.
BUT A LOT OF TIMES THEY DON'T TALK ABOUT THE FRUIT.
LEE: THAT'S RIGHT.
THAT'S SO TRUE.
AND GALATIANS 5 LISTS OFF -
IT DOES A COMPARISON BETWEEN THE WORKS OF THE FLESH
AND THE FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT.
AND NOTICE THOSE TWO,
HOW IT'S NOT THE FRUIT OF THE FLESH,
BUT IT'S THE WORKS OF THE FLESH.
BECAUSE THE WORKS OF THE FLESH ARE LIKE
A DEFAULT OPERATING SYSTEM.
BUT THE FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT
ARE THE EVIDENCES OF LIFE THAT ARE WITHIN US.
THE WORKS ARE THE EVIDENCE OF DEATH.
BUT IT'S IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THAT
BECAUSE YOU CAN'T JUST PRODUCE
THE FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT.
IT'S NOT LIKE I'M TRYING HARDER.
AND SOMEHOW, LOVE, JOY, PEACE, PATIENCE,
KINDNESS, GENTLENESS, SELF-CONTROL,
IS ALL GONNA FLOW OUT OF MY LIFE.
THE MORE WE YIELD AND WE LEAN IN
TO THE PERSON OF THE HOLY SPIRIT
AND RECOGNIZE IN MYSELF I CAN'T DO ANYTHING,
JOHN 5:19, JESUS, WHO'S OUR PROTOTYPE SAID THIS.
THE SON OF MAN CAN DO NOTHING OF HIMSELF.
AND I CAN'T DO ANYTHING IN MY OWN STRENGTH.
ALL THAT'S WITHIN ME IS DEATH.
I CAN, YOU KNOW, OUTBURSTS OF WRATH AND IMPURITY
AND ALL THAT STUFF,
THAT'S WHAT COMES NATURAL TO US.
BUT WHAT COMES SUPERNATURAL TO US
IS THE FRUIT OF THE ONE WHO DWELLS WITHIN US.
AND THAT HAPPENS AS WE YIELD TO HIM.
AND THAT'S A PROCESS.
WE GROW IN THIS.
WHEN WE SEE LOVE AND SELFLESSNESS
AND GENTLENESS AND KINDNESS
AND JOY IN OUR LIFE,
THAT'S NOT NATURAL.
THAT'S THE PRODUCT OF GOD, THE HOLY SPIRIT,
LIVING WITHIN US.
AND IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.
BUT WE OVERLOOK THAT SO OFTEN.
AND IN THE CHARISMATIC WORLD,
WE'VE EMPHASIZED ALL THE MANIFESTATIONS
AND SIGNS AND WONDERS.
BUT WE NEED TO EMPHASIZE ALSO,
THE FRUIT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.
BECAUSE THE FRUIT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT
ARE NOT LIKE THE JV GIFTS.
IT'S LIKE WE NEED THOSE
BECAUSE IT'S POSSIBLE FOR YOU TO BE
VERY GIFTED CHARISMATICALLY,
AND HAVE ZERO CHARACTER.
AND IT'S ALSO POSSIBLE FOR YOU TO BE
ONE OF THE MOST WELL-ROUNDED, DISCIPLED,
LOVE JESUS PERSONS,
BUT YOU'VE SLAMMED THE DOOR
ON ANY SUPERNATURAL MANIFESTATIONS
OR WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT THROUGH YOU.
AND WE NEED BOTH.
IT'S NOT EITHER/OR.
REBECCA: THAT'S SO TRUE.
AND I WAS THINKING, THE IMPORTANCE OF FRUIT
IS IT SAYS THEY WILL KNOW US BY OUR LOVE.
THAT'S NOT YOU CONSCIOUSLY JUST WAKING UP AND SAYING,
I'M GONNA LOVE PEOPLE BECAUSE OUR LOVE IS LIMITED.
IT'S THE LOVE, ONE OF THE FRUITS THE HOLY SPIRIT
PRODUCES IN US.
AND IT SAYS THAT PEOPLE TASTE AND SEE
THAT THE LORD IS GOOD.
AND IT'S LIKE AS PEOPLE, UNBELIEVERS,
THOSE AROUND US
TASTE THAT FRUIT,
IT MAKES THEM HUNGRY.
AND YOU HEAR SO MANY TESTIMONIES,
WHERE THEY GET AROUND BELIEVERS
AND THEY WANT WHAT THAT PERSON HAS.
LEE: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.
REBECCA: BECAUSE SOMETHING'S DIFFERENT.
BUT GOING TO GIFTS, BECAUSE YOU HIT IT
RIGHT ON THE HEAD,
IS THAT GIFTS COME RIGHT AWAY.
FRUIT TAKES CULTIVATION,
JUST LIKE, YOU KNOW,
YOU CAN'T PLANT A SEED AND THE NEXT MORNING
IT'S A FULLY DEVELOPED PLANT.
LEE: RIGHT.
REBECCA: BUT GIFTS, WHEN YOU STUDY HOW
THE CHURCH IS IN ACTS,
WHICH IS SO IMPORTANT FOR BELIEVERS TO STUDY,
IS THAT THEY WOULD GET SAVED,
THEY WOULD GET BAPTIZED,
AND THEY WOULD GET FILLED WITH THE SPIRIT,
ALL PRETTY MUCH IN THE SAME SITUATION
FOR THE MOST PART.
LEE: YEP.
REBECCA: WHICH WE DON'T USUALLY DO TODAY.
WHICH I THINK MAYBE WE COULD RETURN BACK TO.
BUT WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY IS,
IS THAT A LOT OF TIMES
FROM THE MOMENT THEY'RE FILLED WITH THE SPIRIT,
THEY'RE EITHER PROPHESYING,
PRAYING IN THE SPIRIT,
THE GIFTS ARE INSTANTANEOUS.
BUT WHEN WE CLOSE OURSELVES OFF FROM THE GIFTS,
GIFTS ARE FOR REACHING OTHER PEOPLE
WHO ARE IN DARKNESS,
OR IT'S FOR HELPING PEOPLE WITHIN THE BODY OF CHRIST.
AND I REMEMBER ONE OF MY PROFESSORS SAYING,
WE'RE NOT GONNA HAVE THE GIFTS
OF THE SPIRIT IN HEAVEN.
LEE: YEAH.
REBECCA: LIKE EVERYTHING WILL BE PERFECT THEN.
THEY'RE FOR HERE AND FOR NOW.
SO HOW CAN WE THINK IT'S CEASED.
WE HAVE A WORLD NOW MORE THAN EVER IN DARKNESS
AND WE, WHEN WE OPERATE IN THE GIFTS OF THE SPIRIT,
IT'S A WAY TO REACH PEOPLE.
AND YOU SEE JESUS OPERATE IN IT,
WORD OF KNOWLEDGE, ALL THESE DIFFERENT THINGS,
AND IT'S AN EFFECTIVE WAY TO REACH PEOPLE.
AND I THINK IN MY OWN LIFE
WHEN PEOPLE OPERATE IN THE GIFTS,
WHETHER IT'S WORD OF KNOWLEDGE, PROPHECY, HEALING,
I'VE EXPERIENCED A LOT OF DIFFERENT GIFTS
OF THE SPIRIT.
I'M SO THANKFUL
BECAUSE IT MAKES A REAL IMPACT.
SO ALL THAT BEING SAID,
TELL US ABOUT THE GIFTS OF THE SPIRIT.
LEE: WELL, THE GIFTS ARE, YOU KNOW,
WE USE THE TERM GIFTS OF THE SPIRIT,
BUT REALLY, WHEN YOU READ THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE
OF 1 CORINTHIANS 12, 13 AND 14,
IT ACTUALLY READS THEY'RE THE MANIFESTATIONS
OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.
SO IT'S NOT JUST GIFTS THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT GIVES,
BUT THEY'RE WAYS THAT HE MANIFESTS HIMSELF
IN BELIEVERS' LIVES.
AND WHAT'S INTERESTING ABOUT THE BOOK OF ACTS
IS ABOUT 90 PERCENT OF THE TIME
AS YOU GO THROUGH 28 CHAPTERS,
ABOUT 90 PERCENT OF THE TIME
WHEN YOU SEE SOMETHING SUPERNATURAL
OR MIRACULOUS OR A GIFT OF THE SPIRIT OCCUR,
IT'S NOT HAPPENING IN A CHURCH SERVICE.
IT'S ACTUALLY HAPPENING IN THE PROCESS
OF FULFILLING THE GREAT COMMISSION.
IT'S OUTSIDE OF THE WALLS OF THE CHURCH.
BUT IN THE BODY OF CHRIST,
OFTENTIMES WE BOX UP THE GIFTS
WITHIN CHURCH SERVICES
AND THEN WE LIVE THE OTHER SIX AND A HALF DAYS OF OUR WEEK
WITH NO SUPERNATURAL ASPECTS TO IT.
IT'S ONLY IN CHURCH SERVICE.
BUT THE BOOK OF ACTS SAYS THE EXACT OPPOSITE.
IN 1 CORINTHIANS WHEN IT TALKS ABOUT
THE MANIFESTATIONS OF THE GIFTS,
IT'S IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER,
THESE ARE GIFTS THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT
DISTRIBUTES AS HE WANTS
AND THEY'RE TOTALLY DRIVEN BY GRACE.
WE DO NOT EARN THEM.
WE DON'T EARN ANOTHER GIFT.
IT'S NOT LIKE BADGES.
WE DON'T RECEIVE A GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT BECAUSE
WE'VE BEEN A GOOD CHRISTIAN FOR LONG ENOUGH,
DONE ENOUGH GOOD THINGS,
SAID NO TO ENOUGH BAD THINGS.
IT'S THE GRACE OF GOD.
JUST LIKE SALVATION IS BY GOD'S GRACE.
THE GIFTS ARE GIVEN BY GRACE.
IN FACT, JOHN WIMBER,
WHO IS THE FOUNDER OF THE VINEYARD MOVEMENT,
WROTE AN INCREDIBLE BOOK CALLED,
POWER EVANGELISM.
IT TALKS ABOUT UTILIZING THE GIFTS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT
TO REACH THE LOST.
BUT HE WOULD CALL THE GIFTS, GRACELETS.
AND I LOVE THAT.
THEY'RE THE GRACELETS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT
THAT THEY'RE TOTALLY GIVEN.
AND THEY'RE GIVEN AND THEY'RE MADE AVAILABLE
TO EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US.
1 CORINTHIANS LISTS OFF NINE MANIFESTATIONS
OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.
BUT EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM IS SUPERNATURAL
IN ITS DIMENSION.
IT'S OUTSIDE OF THE CONTROL.
IT'S OUTSIDE OF THE MANUFACTURING OF HUMAN BEINGS.
AND IT'S EVIDENCE AND A MANIFESTATION OF
THE LIVING SPIRIT WITHIN US.
AND THEY'RE BEAUTIFUL, THEY'RE POWERFUL.
REBECCA: SO HOW -
LET'S TALK ABOUT PRAYER LANGUAGE.
LEE: YEAH.
REBECCA: BECAUSE IT STUMPS A LOT OF PEOPLE,
AND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN TONGUES
AND INTERPRETATION OF TONGUES
AND PRAYER LANGUAGE.
BECAUSE PEOPLE MIX UP THOSE TWO AS WELL.
HOW IMPORTANT IS IT TO HAVE A PRAYER LANGUAGE
AS A BELIEVER?
LEE: I THINK IT'S VITAL.
REBECCA: I DO, TOO.
LEE: I THINK IT'S VITAL.
I THINK IT'S VITAL FOR A COUPLE REASONS.
NUMBER ONE, IT SEEMS TO BE
THE NORMATIVE PATTERN IN THE BOOK OF ACTS
THAT WHEN PEOPLE ARE FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT,
OR BAPTIZED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT,
THAT THEY EITHER SPEAK IN TONGUES MOST OF THE TIME,
IT'S VERY VISIBLE OR IT'S IMPLIED,
AND SO WE OUGHT TO PAY ATTENTION TO SOMETHING
THAT HAPPENS EVERY SINGLE TIME GOD GIVES A PROMISE.
AND PAUL TALKS ABOUT IT EXTENSIVELY.
PAUL SAYS I WISH THAT YOU ALL SPOKE IN TONGUES.
AND THEN HE SAYS, I SPEAK IN TONGUES MORE THAN YOU ALL,
HE SAYS, BUT I WILL PRAY IN THE SPIRIT
AND PRAY WITH THE UNDERSTANDING.
AND THEN HE SAYS WHEN YOU PRAY IN THE SPIRIT,
YOU'RE SPEAKING MYSTERIES UNTO GOD
IN A LANGUAGE THAT NO MAN KNOWS.
THIS IS NOT A HUMAN LANGUAGE.
THIS IS A LANGUAGE OF ANGELS
OR A HEAVENLY PRAYER LANGUAGE
THAT IS PRAYING.
IT'S THE HOLY SPIRIT PRAYING THROUGH US
TO THE FATHER IN A LANGUAGE
THAT WE DO NOT UNDERSTAND.
AND HE DESCRIBES IT AS MYSTERIES.
THINK ABOUT THAT.
THINGS THAT ARE ENIGMAS,
THINGS THAT ARE DIFFICULT FOR US TO UNDERSTAND.
IT'S BASICALLY OPENING UP A CHANNEL
OF COMMUNICATION BETWEEN THE HOLY SPIRIT IN US
AND THE FATHER SITTING ON THE THRONE,
PRAYING FOR US AND ABOUT US THROUGH US
IN A WAY THAT BYPASSES OUR INTELLECT.
AND IT SAYS WHEN WE DO IT,
WE'RE EDIFIED, WE'RE BUILDING OURSELVES UP
IN OUR MOST HOLY FAITH.
THAT'S WHAT JUDE SAYS.
PRAYING IN THE SPIRIT, BUILDING YOURSELF UP IN
YOUR MOST HOLY FAITH,
IT'S A GENERATOR IN OUR SPIRIT THAT PRODUCES FAITH.
AND I CAN'T IMAGINE WHY WE WOULDN'T WANT SOMETHING -
WE DESPERATELY NEED THAT.
I DON'T THINK -
I DON'T THINK GOD WAS IN HEAVEN GOING,
I THINK I'M GONNA GIVE A BUNCH OF GIFTS TO PEOPLE,
THAT ONE'S WEIRD.
JUST KIND OF LET IT FADE OUT.
I DON'T KNOW WHERE THAT CAME.
EVERYTHING GOD DOES IS VERY INTENTIONAL.
REBECCA: MM-HMM.
LEE: AND I THINK A PRAYER LANGUAGE,
OR PRAYING IN TONGUES,
WHICH IS DIFFERENT THAN DOING IT PUBLICLY
IN A CHURCH SERVICE,
PAUL SAID DON'T -
QUENCH THE SPIRIT AND DON'T FORBID TONGUES PUBLICLY,
BUT IF YOU DO IT, DO IT WITH AN INTERPRETER
SO EVERYBODY CAN REJOICE WITH YOU.
BUT YOU SHOULD PRAY IN THE SPIRIT BECAUSE
IT IS A VITAL WEAPON.
YOU KNOW, IN EPHESIANS CHAPTER 6
WHEN PAUL TALKS ABOUT ALL THE ARMOR OF GOD,
HE SAYS PRAYING ALWAYS IN THE SPIRIT.
IT'S A WEAPON.
WHY WOULD WE WANT A WHOLE ARSENAL EXCEPT ONE,
WHICH IS CONSIDERABLY ONE OF THE MOST
POWERFUL WEAPONS THAT WE HAVE.
AND IT ADDS SUCH INCREDIBLE VALUE AND STRENGTH
TO OUR SPIRIT.
SO I THINK EVERY BELIEVER SHOULD WANT IT.
AND EVERY BELIEVER SHOULD HAVE IT.
REBECCA: I THINK SO, TOO.
AND I THINK HOW POWERFUL PRAYER IS,
AND HOW WHEN WE PRAY IN THE SPIRIT,
THE HOLY SPIRIT IS PRAYING THROUGH US,
THE PERFECT WILL OF GOD.
YOU KNOW, IN OUR MINDS, WE DON'T EVEN KNOW
WHAT'S IN OUR FUTURE,
GOD SEES ALL THINGS.
HE'S OUTSIDE OF TIME.
WHO BETTER TO PRAY THROUGH US
AND KNOW EXACTLY WHAT TO PRAY FOR THAN HIM.
WE JUST NEED TO LET IT HAPPEN.
LEE: AND JUST THINK, I THINK THE HOLY SPIRIT SOMETIMES
PRAYS THINGS THROUGH US,
THAT IF WE KNEW WHAT HE WAS PRAYING,
IT WOULD FREAK US OUT.
REBECCA: YEAH.
LEE: BUT BECAUSE HE KNOWS THE PAST,
PRESENT AND FUTURE,
HE'S ABLE TO PRAY, BYPASS OUR INTELLECT,
AND SET US UP WITH AMBUSHES OF GRACE.
REBECCA: YEAH, I AGREE.
SO FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE WATCHING,
WHO WANT TO BE FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT,
SPEAK ON WHAT IS IT TO BE FILLED WITH THE SPIRIT,
PRAY IN THE SPIRIT,
AND HOW DO THEY DO THAT?
LEE: WELL, JESUS TOLD THE DISCIPLES NOT TO LEAVE JERUSALEM
UNTIL YOU RECEIVE THE PROMISE OF THE FATHER.
THIS IS ACTS 1.
HE SAYS WHAT YOU'VE HEARD ME TALK ABOUT
WHEN I SAID NOT MANY DAYS FROM NOW
YOU WILL BE BAPTIZED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT.
HE SAID THEREFORE REMAIN HERE UNTIL THE PROMISE COMES.
SO THEY WAITED TEN DAYS.
ACTS CHAPTER 2 IS THE DAY OF PENTECOST.
GOD POURED HIS SPIRIT OUT
AND THEY WERE ALL FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT.
THAT'S REALLY THE BEGINNING OF IT.
AND WE SEE THAT PATTERN ALL THE WAY THROUGH
THE BOOK OF ACTS.
WHEN WE'RE SAVED,
GOD PUTS THE HOLY SPIRIT IN US
TO SEAL US UNTIL THE DAY OF REDEMPTION.
BUT WHEN HE BAPTIZES US IN THE HOLY SPIRIT,
THAT IS AN EMPOWERMENT,
A DIVINE, SUBSEQUENT TO SALVATION,
DIVINE EMPOWERMENT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT UPON US
TO ANOINT US.
JUST LIKE JESUS HAD.
AND IT'S NOT JUST A ONE-TIME THING.
PAUL SAYS IN EPHESIANS 5,
DO NOT BE DRUNK WITH WINE,
WHICH IS DISSIPATION, BUT BE FILLED WITH
THE HOLY SPIRIT CONTINUALLY.
THAT'S THE TENSE IN THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE.
CONTINUALLY BE FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT.
WHICH MEANS WE'RE GONNA NEED MULTIPLE FILLINGS
IN OUR LIVES
OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
WE'RE SUPPOSED TO LIVE IN A CONSTANT TENSION
OF NEEDING THAT.
BUT THERE HAS TO BE A STARTING POINT,
A DYNAMIC STARTING POINT.
SO ONCE YOU'RE SAVED, OFTENTIMES WE THINK,
WELL, I'VE GOT THE HOLY SPIRIT.
WELL, OF COURSE YOU DO.
HE LIVES IN YOU.
BUT IF I FILLED THIS CUP UP WITH WATER
UNTIL THERE COULD BE NO MORE WATER IN HERE,
AND THE WATER REPRESENTS THE HOLY SPIRIT.
THAT'S SALVATION.
YOU'VE GOT ALL OF THE HOLY SPIRIT YOU'RE EVER GONNA GET.
BUT IF I PUT A FLAME UNDER THIS CUP,
IT WOULD CHANGE THE DYNAMICS OF THE WATER
IN THE CUP
UNTIL IT BOILED AND OVERFLOWED.
THAT'S THE BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.
THAT'S THE POWER.
YOU'RE NOT GETTING MORE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.
IT'S JUST CHANGING THE DYNAMICS
OF YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT.
IT'S AN EMPOWERMENT.
REBECCA: AND IT CAUSES THE OVERFLOW.
LEE: IT CAUSES THE OVERFLOW,
WHICH IS THE GIFTS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.
SO WHAT I TELL PEOPLE IS,
NUMBER ONE, GO TO THE WORD.
STUDY IT.
DON'T GO TO TRADITION,
DON'T LISTEN TO ANYBODY.
YOU GO TO THE WORD AND LOOK AT
WHAT JESUS SAYS ABOUT IT.
NUMBER TWO, WHAT DOES THE BOOK OF ACTS DEMONSTRATE
WAS THE PATTERN?
THEN DO WHAT JESUS SAID.
HE SAID IN LUKE 11, IF YOU ASK THE FATHER
FOR THE HOLY SPIRIT.
SO ASK HIM.
FATHER, I WANT EVERYTHING THAT YOU HAVE FOR ME.
FILL ME AND BAPTIZE ME WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT.
I WANT ALL THE GIFTS.
I WANT MORE OF YOUR PRESENCE.
I NEED THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.
BAPTIZE AND FILL ME WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT.
AND THEN WAIT.
WAIT UPON HIM IN A PRAYER AND A WORSHIP ENVIRONMENT
AND YOU'RE GOING TO EXPERIENCE,
YOU'RE GONNA FEEL HIS PRESENCE COME INTO THAT ROOM,
COME UP FROM WITHIN YOU.
JESUS SAID IT'S GONNA BE LIKE RIVERS
THAT FLOW OUT OF YOU.
AND THEN WHAT I OFTENTIMES TELL PEOPLE
WHEN IT COMES TO PRAYING IN TONGUES,
WELL, HOW WILL I KNOW, WHAT SHOULD I DO?
YOU'RE JUST GONNA TAKE THAT STEP OF FAITH.
YOU'RE GONNA BEGIN TO SPEAK OUT.
IT'S NOT OUT OF HERE,
BUT IT'S OUT OF HERE.
AND BEGIN TO GIVE VOICE TO THAT.
OFTENTIMES I THINK IT WORKS BEST IN WORSHIP.
REBECCA: SAME.
LEE: SO IT'S LIKE PUT WORSHIP ON.
WORSHIP GOD AND JUST GET LOST IN HIS PRESENCE.
AND REMEMBER, IT'S NOT ABOUT THE GIFT,
IT'S ABOUT THE GIVER.
IT'S ABOUT KEEPING OUR FOCUS ON JESUS.
AND HERE'S WHAT I KNOW.
I KNOW THAT HE GIVES IT TO EVERYBODY WHO ASKS.
SO IF YOU ASK, NO MATTER WHAT MANIFESTS,
NO MATTER WHAT GIFT MANIFESTS OR DOESN'T MANIFEST,
AS SOON AS YOU ASK AND YOU'RE A CHILD OF GOD,
YOU RECEIVE AND IT'S YOURS.
REBECCA: THAT'S SO GOOD.
WILL YOU SAY A QUICK PRAYER
FOR THE PEOPLE WHO ARE LISTENING?
LEE: I WOULD LOVE TO.
FATHER, WE'RE SO GRATEFUL
THAT WHEN YOU SEE US, YOU DON'T SEE US THROUGH
THE LENS OF OUR SIN.
YOU DON'T SEE US ANY LONGER
THROUGH THE LENS OF WHAT WE LACK,
BUT YOU SEE US THROUGH THE BLOOD OF JESUS,
FULLY RIGHTEOUS, WRAPPED IN THE ROBE
OF RIGHTEOUSNESS,
A NEW CREATION IN CHRIST JESUS,
SONS AND DAUGHTERS OF THE LIVING GOD.
AND I'M PRAYING TODAY, FATHER,
FOR THOSE WHO MAYBE ARE IGNORANT ON THIS SUBJECT,
THEY'VE NEVER BEEN INFORMED ABOUT THIS,
OR THOSE WHO HAVE BIASES AGAINST IT.
AND EVEN THOSE WHO ARE JUST HUNGRY
AND WANT MORE OF YOU.
YOU SAID THOSE WHO HUNGER AND THIRST
FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS WOULD BE FILLED.
AND I'M PRAYING TODAY THAT TO THE LEVEL OF OUR HUNGER,
FATHER, YOU WOULD POUR OUT YOUR SPIRIT
AND FILL US.
FOR THOSE WHO CALL UPON YOU, LORD,
ARE PRAYING IN THEIR LIVING ROOMS, IN THEIR CARS,
WHEREVER THEY'RE AT,
LORD, MEET THEM,
AND FILL US WITH YOUR HOLY SPIRIT CONTINUALLY.
HELP US TO WALK IN THE POWER OF YOUR HOLY SPIRIT
AND TO BE LED BY YOUR SPIRIT TODAY.
LORD, HELP US TO OVERFLOW
SO THAT YOUR GOODNESS, YOUR GRACE, YOUR POWER,
IT OVERFLOWS OUR LIVES
INTO THE LIVES OF THOSE AROUND US
SO THAT PEOPLE WILL EVEN LOOK AT US AND GO,
GOD'S REAL.
I SEE IT IN YOU.
I'VE EXPERIENCED IT AROUND YOU.
I KNOW GOD IS REAL.
LORD, USE US TO POINT PEOPLE TO JESUS.
AMEN.
REBECCA: AMEN.
WELL, THANK YOU SO MUCH.
LEE: THANK YOU.
REBECCA: AND THE BOOK, SCHOOL OF THE SPIRIT,
WHICH IS THE BOOK WE WERE REFERENCING
THIS WHOLE CONVERSATION,
WHERE CAN PEOPLE GET IT?
LEE: THEY CAN BUY IT ON AMAZON
OR WHEREVER BOOKS ARE SOLD.
REBECCA: AND FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT TO VISIT THE CHURCH,
WHERE ARE YOU AT?
LEE: RADIANT.CHURCH.
REBECCA: EVERYONE WELCOME?
LEE: EVERYBODY'S WELCOME.
GO TO RADIANT CHANNEL ON YOUTUBE
AND WE'VE GOT A LOT OF RESOURCES,
INCLUDING SOME CLASSES THAT ARE CONNECTED TO THIS BOOK.
REBECCA: AWESOME.
WELL, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.
LEE: THANK YOU.
REBECCA: AND FOR EVERYONE WHO IS LISTENING,
I HOPE YOU'RE BLESSED TODAY.
AND YOU'LL COME OUT OF THIS
KNOWING MORE ABOUT THE HOLY SPIRIT
AND WANTING MORE OF A RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM.
BYE.
♪♪