REBECCA WEISS: WELL, I JUST FEEL LIKE
WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A CONVERSATION.
I DON'T EVEN NEED AN INTRO.
[ LAUGHING ]
JOHN BEVERE: REBECCA, IT IS SUCH AN HONOR
TO BE ON WITH YOU.
AND I HAVE FELT LIKE YOU'VE BEEN A NIECE
TO LISA AND I FOR YEARS AND YEARS.
IT'S JUST SO HARD FOR ME TO BELIEVE,
I JUST REMEMBER YOU AS A HIGH SCHOOL GIRL
COMING TO OUR KITCHEN.
AND NOW HERE YOU ARE A MATURE MOM,
GREAT WIFE, YOU HAVE TWO CHILDREN.
I'M SO PROUD OF YOU, REBECCA.
I AM.
REBECCA: THANK YOU SO MUCH.
AND I'M SUPER EXCITED TO HAVE YOU HERE
BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT
THE AWE OF GOD,
WHICH IS YOUR NEW BOOK.
JOHN: RIGHT.
REBECCA: BUT IT'S SUCH AN IMPORTANT TOPIC.
AND I FEEL LIKE THIS IS A BURDEN,
I THINK YOU'VE BEEN CARRYING FOR A LONG TIME.
THIS ISN'T A NEW DEVELOPMENT.
JOHN: CORRECT.
REBECCA: COULD YOU SPEAK TO THAT?
JOHN: WELL, IT'S A VERY STRONG BURDEN.
GOD STARTED REALLY INTRODUCING IT TO ME IN 1994.
SO WE'RE AT 30 YEARS NOW THAT THE LORD'S REALLY BEEN
ADDRESSING THIS WITH ME.
BUT THE BURDEN HAS COME IN THE LAST COUPLE YEARS.
BARNA JUST RELEASED A STUDY RECENTLY
THAT OVER 23 MILLION AMERICANS
HAVE WALKED AWAY FROM THE FAITH.
23 MILLION, REBECCA.
NOW, THESE ARE PRACTICING CHRISTIANS.
AND WHAT HE DEFINED A PRACTICING CHRISTIAN AS
IS ONE WHO PRAYS REGULARLY
AND ATTENDS OR GATHERS REGULARLY.
THESE 23 MILLION, AND IT'S OVER 23 MILLION,
HAVE NOT JUST GONE TO SILENT,
THEY ARE NOW PROFESSING AGNOSTICS, ATHEISTS,
AND SPIRITUALISTS.
NOW, PAUL THE APOSTLE SAID,
BEFORE THAT DAY COMES, THERE'S GOING TO BE
A GREAT APOSTASY, A GREAT FALLING AWAY
FROM THOSE WHO PROFESS CHRISTIANITY.
WHY IS THAT?
AND LET ME SAY THIS, FIRST OF ALL.
HE NEVER WROTE THAT THEY WOULDN'T COME BACK.
AND JUST AS JOHN THE BAPTIST WAS SENT
TO THE LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL,
I BELIEVE THERE'S A COMPANY OF MEN AND WOMEN,
BOTH YOUNG AND OLD, REBECCA,
THAT ARE GOING TO GO AFTER THESE LOST PEOPLE.
AND WHEN YOU STOP AND THINK ABOUT OVER 23 MILLION,
THAT'S ONE OUT OF EVERY 14 AMERICANS.
NOW, WHY IS THIS OCCURRING?
I FULLY BELIEVE IT'S BECAUSE WE HAVE NOT TALKED
ABOUT THE HOLY, HEALTHY FEAR OF GOD.
NOW, BEFORE EVERYBODY GETS NERVOUS, OKAY,
AND YOU WENT - YOU JUST SAID FEAR.
I WANT TO ERADICATE FEAR.
WE'VE MADE A HUGE MISTAKE, IN THAT WE HAVE LUMPED
ALL FEARS INTO ONE BUCKET,
AND THAT IS DESTRUCTIVE FEARS.
I SUBMIT TO EVERYONE LISTENING
THAT THERE ARE TWO BUCKETS OF FEARS.
THERE IS DESTRUCTIVE AND THERE'S CONSTRUCTIVE.
LET ME GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE OF A CONSTRUCTIVE FEAR.
FEAR PRODUCES WISDOM.
WE KNOW THE FEAR OF THE LORD
IS THE BEGINNING OF GODLY WISDOM.
LET ME SHOW YOU THIS.
THE FEAR OF BEING MAULED BY A MOTHER GRIZZLY BEAR
WILL GIVE ME THE WISDOM TO NOT MESS WITH HER CUBS.
NOW, THAT FEAR WILL ACTUALLY SAVE MY LIFE.
NOW, THAT FEAR CAN GO TO DESTRUCTIVE BY THE FACT THAT
IT CAN GET SO HUGE THAT I WON'T EVEN
GO FOR A WALK IN THE WOODS.
SO THE FEAR THAT ERADICATES ALL UNHEALTHY FEARS
IS THE FEAR OF THE LORD.
AND ONE OF THE GREATEST UNHEALTHY FEARS
IS THE FEAR OF MAN.
IT ERADICATES IT.
WHEN YOU FEAR GOD, YOU FEAR NOTHING THAT'S DESTRUCTIVE.
SO WHY DO I BRING THAT UP IN REGARD TO,
AND LET ME SAY SOMETHING ELSE BEFORE EVERYBODY
GETS REALLY SCARED ON THE PODCAST, OKAY.
THE FEAR OF THE LORD HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH
BEING SCARED OF GOD.
NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
HOW CAN YOU BE INTIMATE WITH SOMEBODY
YOU'RE SCARED OF?
YET THAT'S GOD'S NUMBER ONE PASSION FOR US,
IS TO HAVE AN INTIMATE RELATIONSHIP.
IN FACT, IT'S COUNTER-INTUITIVE.
THE BEGINNING, THE BIBLE MAKES THIS SO CLEAR,
THE STARTING PLACE OF AN INTIMATE RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD
IS THE FEAR OF THE LORD.
THAT'S PROVERBS 1:7 AND 2:5.
AND ACTUALLY PSALM 25:14 SAYS,
FRIENDSHIP WITH THE LORD IS RESERVED
FOR THOSE WHO FEAR HIM.
WITH THEM, HE SHARES HIS SECRETS.
NOW, CAN YOU IMAGINE, GOD SAYS,
I SHARE MY SECRETS WITH MY INTIMATE FRIENDS,
AND MY INTIMATE FRIENDS ARE THOSE WHO FEAR ME.
NOW, WHY DO I BRING UP ALL OF THESE CHRISTIANS
THAT HAVE FALLEN AWAY FROM THE FAITH?
BECAUSE THE BIBLE SHOWS CLEARLY
THAT THE FEAR OF THE LORD
IS WHAT KEEPS US CLOSE TO GOD.
IT'S THE POWER THAT WE NEED TO DEPART FROM THE EVIL
THAT WOULD PULL US AWAY FROM GOD'S HEART.
SO THE BIBLE SAYS, BY THE FEAR OF THE LORD,
ONE DEPARTS FROM EVIL.
I'LL NEVER FORGET, REBECCA,
I'M SITTING IN FRONT OF A WORLD-FAMOUS EVANGELIST
WHO WAS IN PRISON FOR FIVE YEARS.
HE'S THE BEST-KNOWN MAN IN THE WORLD,
ALL FOR THE WRONG REASONS BECAUSE OF HIS TRIAL.
IT WAS ON CNN EVERY DAY.
AND I REMEMBER IN HIS FOURTH YEAR OF PRISON,
HE SHARED WITH ME HOW JESUS HAD DELIVERED HIM
FROM ALL THE EVIL THAT WAS IN HIS LIFE.
HE SAID, JOHN, I WAS IN BAD SHAPE.
AND HE SAID, IF I WOULD HAVE DIED, HE SAID,
THIS PRISON WAS ACTUALLY GOD'S MERCY ON MY LIFE.
IF I WOULD HAVE DIED,
I WOULD HAVE BEEN SEPARATED FROM GOD FOR ETERNITY.
HE SAID, I WOULD HAVE BURNED IN THE LAKE OF FIRE.
AND I REMEMBER GOING, WOW.
AND I REMEMBER ASKING HIM, I SAID,
AT WHAT POINT DID YOU FALL OUT OF LOVE WITH JESUS?
I WATCHED YOU WEEP OVER PEOPLE THAT WERE LOST,
I WATCHED YOU TALK ABOUT JESUS WITH TEARS.
HE SAID, JOHN, I DIDN'T.
I SAID, NO, NO.
YOU JUST MISSED WHAT I SAID.
WHEN DID YOU FALL OUT OF LOVE WITH JESUS?
BECAUSE YOU COMMITTED ADULTERY FOR SEVEN YEARS.
BEFORE THAT, YOU COMMITTED ALL THIS MAIL FRAUD.
HE SAID, JOHN, I LOVED HIM ALL THE WAY THROUGH IT.
AND THEN HE LOOKED AT ME,
BECAUSE I WAS CONFUSED, REBECCA.
THIS IS 1994.
AND HE SAID, I DIDN'T FEAR GOD.
AND HE SAID, THERE ARE MILLIONS OF AMERICANS
JUST LIKE ME, THEY LOVE JESUS
BUT THEY HAVE NO FEAR OF GOD.
AND THE FEAR OF GOD IS WHAT GIVES US THAT POWER
TO DEPART FROM EVIL.
SO WHY ARE WE LOSING ALL THESE AMERICAN BELIEVERS?
IT'S BECAUSE WE'VE NOT TAUGHT
THE HOLY, HEALTHY FEAR OF GOD.
IF YOU LOOK AT ISAIAH 11:6,
THE FEAR OF THE LORD IS GOD'S TREASURE.
IF YOU LOOK AT ISAIAH 11:3,
THE FEAR OF THE LORD WAS JESUS' DELIGHT.
NOW, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT GOD'S TREASURE,
JESUS' DELIGHT.
AND THEN PAUL TELLS US IN PHILIPPIANS 2
THAT WE WORK OUT OUR SALVATION
WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING.
NOT LOVE AND KINDNESS.
WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING.
SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE VERY THING
THAT MATURES OUR SALVATION.
SO WHEN YOU BRING A BABY INTO THE WORLD,
YOU HAVE TWO BABIES, REBECCA,
YOU WOULDN'T SEND YOUR BABY ON A BATTLEFIELD
WITH A BUNCH OF SEALS OR MARINES.
WHY?
YOUR BABY WOULD GET KILLED.
SO WHAT HAPPENS IS, PEOPLE COME INTO THE FAITH
AND THEY COME IN AS BABIES.
BUT WHAT WE DON'T DO IS WE DON'T MATURE THEM
INTO MATURE BELIEVERS.
IT'S THE FEAR OF THE LORD THAT WORKS OUT
OUR SALVATION OR MATURES OUR SALVATION.
REBECCA: SO IF SOMEONE'S LISTENING TO THIS
AND THEY'RE THINKING, OKAY,
HOW DO I HAVE THE FEAR OF THE LORD IN MY LIFE,
HOW DOES THAT LOOK PRACTICALLY?
JOHN: YEP.
IT'S WHEN WE HONOR, ESTEEM, TREMBLE BEFORE,
VENERATE, AND STAND IN AWE OF HIM ABOVE EVERYTHING
AND EVERYONE ELSE.
SO IN OTHER WORDS, WE LITERALLY TAKE HIS HEART.
AND SO WHAT HE LOVES, WE LOVE.
WHAT HE HATES, WE HATE.
SO THE FEAR OF THE LORD ISN'T TO DISLIKE EVIL.
IT'S TO HATE EVIL.
NOW, AGAIN, LET ME CALM EVERYBODY'S FEARS
BECAUSE WE KNOW LEGALISTS HAVE SPOILED THINGS FOR US.
SO THE LEGALIST IS THE PERSON THAT SAYS,
I FEAR GOD, THAT'S WHY I HATE THOSE SINNERS.
NO, SIR.
YOU HAVE NO FEAR OF GOD.
BECAUSE YOU HATE WHAT HE LOVES.
GOD LOVES THOSE SINNERS SO MUCH THAT HE TOOK ON FLESH
AND DIED A GRUESOME DEATH TO DELIVER THEM.
WHAT HE HATES IS WHAT UNMAKES THOSE PEOPLE HE LOVES.
SO GOD HATES THE SIN THAT UNDOES PEOPLE.
SO THAT'S WHERE IT GETS CONFUSING WITH MEN AND WOMEN.
THE LEGALISTS SPOIL THINGS.
THEY ALWAYS - WHAT'S IMPORTANT TO GOD,
THEY SPOIL IT.
LIKE THEY MADE HOLINESS INTO A BUNCH OF
RULES AND REGULATIONS.
WHEN HOLINESS JUST MEANS I BELONG TO HIM.
I'M TOTALLY HIS.
AND IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT,
WHAT'S THE ONLY DESCRIPTION OF THE CHURCH
THAT JESUS IS COMING BACK FOR
IN THE NEW TESTAMENT?
IT'S NOT A LEADERSHIP CHURCH.
AND I BELIEVE IN LEADERSHIP.
I'M A LEADER OF A WHOLE ORGANIZATION, OKAY,
AND HAVE BEEN.
BUT IT'S NOT A LEADERSHIP CHURCH.
IT'S NOT A COMMUNITY CHURCH.
I BELIEVE IN COMMUNITY.
IT'S NOT GOOD THAT MAN'S ALONE.
GOD HIMSELF SAID IT.
BUT IT'S NOT A COMMUNITY CHURCH.
IT'S NOT A RELEVANT CHURCH.
I BELIEVE IN RELEVANCE.
I LOVE HOW YOU ARE HELPING JONI STAY RELEVANT,
BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT I DO, I DRAW UPON THE MILLENNIALS
AND GEN ZS IN MY ORGANIZATION.
BUT IT'S NOT A RELEVANT CHURCH.
THE ONLY DESCRIPTION OF THE CHURCH
THAT JESUS IS COMING BACK FOR
IS A HOLY CHURCH, REBECCA,
WITHOUT SPOT OR WRINKLE OR ANY SUCH THING.
WHAT'S THE ONLY THING THAT PRODUCES HOLINESS?
NOT THE LOVE OF GOD.
2 CORINTHIANS TELLS US.
WE PERFECT HOLINESS IN THE HOLY FEAR OF GOD.
REBECCA: THAT'S SO GOOD.
I WANT TO READ, ACTUALLY, THE VERSE FROM ISAIAH.
IT'S THE MESSIANIC PROPHECY.
THIS IS ISAIAH 11.
YOU WERE REFERENCING IT.
IT SAYS, THERE SHALL COME FORTH A SHOOT FROM
THE STUMP OF JESSE, AND A BRANCH FROM HIS ROOTS
SHALL BEAR FRUIT AND THE SPIRIT OF LORD SHALL REST UPON HIM.
THE SPIRIT OF WISDOM AND UNDERSTANDING,
THE SPIRIT OF COUNSEL AND MIGHT,
THE SPIRIT OF KNOWLEDGE AND THE FEAR OF THE LORD,
AND HIS DELIGHT SHALL BE IN THE FEAR OF THE LORD.
HE SHALL NOT JUDGE BY WHAT HIS EYES SEE
OR DECIDE DISPUTES BY WHAT HIS EARS HEAR.
BUT WITH RIGHTEOUSNESS, HE SHALL JUDGE THE POOR
AND DECIDE WITH EQUITY FOR THE MEEK OF THE EARTH,
AND HE SHALL STRIKE THE EARTH
WITH THE ROD OF HIS MOUTH,
AND WITH THE BREATH OF HIS LIPS
HE SHALL KILL THE WICKED.
THE SEVEN-FOLD SPIRIT OF GOD.
AND I THINK ABOUT THE TABERNACLE.
I WAS JUST STUDYING ABOUT IT THE OTHER DAY.
THE LAMP STAND THAT'S IN THE HOLY PLACE,
WHICH REPRESENTS THE SEVEN-FOLD SPIRIT OF GOD,
HAS SEVEN DIFFERENT BRANCHES.
AND WHAT PEOPLE THAT MAY BE BELIEVERS DON'T UNDERSTAND
IS THAT WE CAN HAVE THE SEVEN-FOLD SPIRIT OF GOD.
AND I REMEMBER CHRIS REED, HE'S A PROPHET,
HE CAME THROUGH JUST RECENTLY AND GOD GAVE HIM
THIS PROPHETIC DREAM.
AND BASICALLY THE DREAM MEANT THAT IF THE CHURCH
DOES NOT HAVE THE FEAR OF THE LORD,
IT WON'T HAVE ANY OF THE OTHER SIX-FOLDS.
HE SAYS IT ALL HINGES ON THE FEAR OF THE LORD.
IT WAS SUCH A POWERFUL DREAM.
AND SO WE AS BELIEVERS NEED TO BE EMBRACING
THE FEAR OF THE LORD MORE THAN EVER IN THIS DAY AND AGE
BECAUSE WE'RE SEEING COMPROMISE.
LIKE YOU SAY, WE'RE SEEING APOSTASY.
AND IT'S CAUSING PEOPLE TO TURN AWAY,
IT'S CAUSING THEIR HEARTS TO TURN AWAY.
I WANT TO HEAR SOME STORIES
GROWING UP IN MINISTRY.
BECAUSE YOU'VE BEEN IN MINISTRY FOR HOW MANY YEARS?
JOHN: FORTY YEARS NEXT MONTH.
REBECCA: HOW DID YOU LEARN TO OVERCOME
THE FEAR OF MAN AND HOW DID YOU LEARN TO DEVELOP
A HEALTHY FEAR OF GOD?
JOHN: THAT'S A REALLY GOOD QUESTION.
I LOOK AT THIS, REBECCA,
I DIDN'T WANT TO GO INTO MINISTRY.
REBECCA: I DON'T THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE KNOW THAT,
THAT THAT'S TRUE.
JOHN: IT'S THE LAST THING I WANTED TO DO.
I'LL NEVER FORGET.
I WAS RAISED CATHOLIC, AND SO MY CONCEPT OF MINISTRY
WAS YOU BECOME A PRIEST AND YOU NEVER GET MARRIED,
AND THAT WASN'T AN OPTION FOR ME.
AND THEN I GREW UP IN A SMALL TOWN OF 3,000.
AND OTHER THAN MY CATHOLIC PRIEST,
THE ONLY OTHER MINISTER I KNEW WAS A PASTOR
WHO HAD TWO KIDS AROUND MY AGE, AND THEY WERE REALLY STRANGE.
AND ONE TIME I WENT INTO THEIR HOUSE,
AND IT REEKED OF AN ODOR SO BAD I LITERALLY
HELD MY BREATH AND I MADE AN EXCUSE TO GET OUT
AS FAST AS I COULD.
AND SO MY CONCEPT WAS YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE
WEIRD KIDS WITH A SMELLY HOUSE,
YOU'RE GOING TO BE A PRIEST AND NOT GET MARRIED,
OR YOU'RE GOING TO END UP IN A SHACK
SOMEWHERE IN AFRICA.
AND I REMEMBER FOR A YEAR AND A HALF
GOD WAS DEALING WITH ME ABOUT THIS,
BECAUSE MY PLAN WAS,
I DO HAVE A MECHANICAL ENGINEERING DEGREE
FROM PURDUE UNIVERSITY.
I WAS GOING ON TO HARVARD.
MY PROFESSOR IN MECHANICAL ENGINEERING
WAS HELPING ME GET THERE.
I WAS GOING TO GO REALLY HIGH UP
IN THE CORPORATE LADDER.
I WAS GOING TO MARRY A NICE, BEAUTIFUL GIRL,
TAKE THREE VACATIONS A YEAR AND MAKE A LOT OF MONEY
AND GIVE MY TITHES.
THAT'S THE WAY I WAS GOING TO SERVE GOD.
AND I REMEMBER HE STARTED DEALING WITH ME WITH IT,
AND ONE DAY HE CAME ON ME SO STRONG.
I WAS IN A CHURCH OF ABOUT 2,000 PEOPLE
JUST SITTING IN THE MIDDLE OF THE BUILDING,
AND HE SAID, I'VE CALLED YOU TO PREACH.
WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?
AND I REMEMBER THAT DAY, REBECCA.
I SAID, I DON'T CARE IF I END UP IN AFRICA IN A SHACK
OR IF I HAVE A SMELLY HOUSE,
I'LL DO WHATEVER YOU ASK ME TO DO.
SO YOU'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT A GUY
WHO REALLY WAS WANTING TO GO IN MINISTRY.
AND I THOUGHT, I DIDN'T EVEN WANT TO DO THIS.
I'M NOT GOING TO TRY TO PLEASE PEOPLE.
I'M GOING TO DO WHATEVER GOD TELLS ME TO DO.
AND I THINK THAT YEAR AND A HALF OF WRESTLING WITH GOD
SOLIDIFIED IN MY HEART THAT I DON'T CARE
IF PEOPLE TURN AND WALK AWAY,
I DON'T CARE IF THEY THROW SOMETHING AT ME,
I DON'T CARE IF THEY YELL AT ME.
I'M GOING TO PREACH THE TRUTH AND I'M GOING TO DO IT
WITH A HEART OF LOVE.
AND IF PEOPLE DON'T RECEIVE IT, THAT'S FINE.
BUT I WANT GOD SMILING ON THE INSIDE OF ME.
AND I THINK THAT'S THE NUMBER ONE THING I LOOK FOR
WHEN I WALK AWAY FROM ANY SITUATION,
WHETHER IT'S A PODCAST, A CHURCH, A CONFERENCE,
A TELEVISION PROGRAM.
I WANT TO KNOW THE HOLY SPIRIT'S SMILING
ON THE INSIDE OF ME.
AND THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF TIMES,
I REMEMBER THE VERY FIRST TIME HE TOLD ME TO PREACH
ON THE FEAR OF THE LORD PUBLICLY, I GOT UP.
IT WAS ONE OF THE BIGGEST CHURCHES IN THE ENTIRE AREA.
THEY HAD JUST HAD A TREMENDOUS,
TREMENDOUS MOVE OF GOD.
THE PASTOR WAS WELL-KNOWN.
AND I GOT UP AND TAUGHT ON IT THE NEXT NIGHT,
BECAUSE I WAS SPEAKING TWO NIGHTS IN HIS CONFERENCE,
HE GOT UP FOR A ROUTINE INTRODUCTION,
AND HE CORRECTED EVERYTHING I SAID
THE NIGHT BEFORE.
AND HE GOT UP AND HE SAID, FOLKS,
I JUST WANT TO PROTECT YOU FROM THE ERROR
THAT JOHN PREACHED LAST NIGHT.
WHAT HE TAUGHT WAS AN OLD TESTAMENT DOCTRINE.
WE DON'T HAVE TO FEAR GOD IN THE NEW TESTAMENT
BECAUSE PERFECTED LOVE CASTS OUT FEAR,
AND GOD'S NOT GIVEN US A SPIRIT OF FEAR.
SO HE CORRECTED FOR ABOUT TEN MINUTES
WHAT I SAID THE NIGHT BEFORE, AND THEN TO MY SURPRISE,
HE INTRODUCED ME.
REBECCA: WAIT.
DID HE GIVE YOU A HEAD'S UP THAT HE WAS GOING TO DO THAT?
JOHN: NO.
REBECCA: WHAT?
JOHN: I WAS TOTALLY COMPLETELY SHOCKED.
LISA LAUGHS ABOUT IT BECAUSE THEY STOOD HER UP
AND SAID, YOU'RE WELCOME BACK HERE,
AND DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING TO ME.
SO I REMEMBER THE NEXT MORNING, I WENT OUT,
AND I WAS REALLY ALARMED BECAUSE THIS GUY
HAD BEEN IN MINISTRY MUCH LONGER THAN ME.
AND I REMEMBER, I SAID, GOD,
I'VE HURT YOUR CHURCH, I'M SO SORRY.
AND I SAID, PLEASE SHOW ME WHAT I'VE DONE WRONG.
AND I FELT THE PLEASURE OF THE LORD.
I FELT THE SMILE THAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.
AND I REMEMBER, BEFORE I WAS DONE PRAYING
THAT SATURDAY MORNING NEAR THE HOTEL I WAS STAYING AT,
I WAS LITERALLY CRYING OUT TO KNOW THE HOLY FEAR OF GOD.
NOW, WHAT'S INTERESTING IS,
THAT CHURCH DOESN'T EXIST ANYMORE.
THAT PASTOR'S NOT IN MINISTRY ANYMORE.
AND AGAIN, IT COMES BACK TO WHAT GIVES US LONGEVITY.
PSALM 19:9 MAKES THE STATEMENT -
I'LL NEVER FORGET, I WAS IN CAMBODIA
AND THE LORD SPOKE TO ME AND SAID, READ PSALM 19:9.
I REMEMBER THE NIGHT BEFORE
A REAL MANIFESTATION OF THE SPIRIT OF THE FEAR OF THE LORD
HAPPENED IN KUALA LUMPUR, MALAYSIA.
AND ONE OF THE PEOPLE IN THE MEETING SAID,
I FEEL SO CLEAN INSIDE.
AND I SAID, THAT EXACTLY DESCRIBES WHAT I HAVE FELT
ANYTIME I'VE BEEN IN THE ATMOSPHERE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT
OF THE FEAR OF THE LORD, I FEEL CLEAN.
AND I REMEMBER THE NEXT MORNING, GOD SPOKE TO ME.
I WAS GETTING READY TO PLAY BASKETBALL
WITH THE BIBLE SCHOOL STUDENTS IN MALAYSIA, RIGHT,
IN KUALA LUMPUR.
AND HE SAID, READ PSALM 19,
AND I GET DOWN TO VERSE 9, AND IT SAYS,
THE FEAR OF THE LORD IS CLEAN AND ENDURING FOREVER.
AND I WENT, OH, MY GOSH, THERE IT IS.
BUT WHAT THE HOLY SPIRIT HIGHLIGHTED
WAS ENDURING FOREVER.
AND THAT MORNING, REBECCA, HE SAID TO ME,
LUCIFER LED WORSHIP RIGHT BEFORE MY THRONE.
HE BEHELD MY GLORY.
HE WAS ANOINTED TO DO IT.
HE DIDN'T FEAR ME.
HE DIDN'T ENDURE FOREVER.
ADAM AND EVE WALKED IN THE PRESENCE OF MY GLORY
IN THE GARDEN.
THEY DIDN'T FEAR ME.
THEY DIDN'T ENDURE IN THE GARDEN FOREVER.
AND I REALIZED RIGHT THEN WHY PEOPLE HAVE LEFT MINISTRY,
WHY PEOPLE HAVE LEFT THE CHURCH,
WHY PEOPLE HAVE NOT FINISHED WELL,
IS BECAUSE THEY LACKED THE HOLY FEAR OF GOD.
REBECCA: SO I'M JUST PROCESSING OUT LOUD.
SO THE FEAR OF GOD, THAT'S WHY YOU ALSO HAVE IT SAY,
THE AWE OF GOD,
BECAUSE IT'S A FEAR OF NOT HAVING HIM
AND IT'S ALSO BEING AWARE OF HOW AWESOME HE IS.
SO WHEN I THINK ABOUT LUCIFER,
HE WAS FILLED WITH PRIDE, AND SO IT'S ALMOST LIKE
HE GOT HIS FOCUS OFF OF GOD AND ON HIMSELF.
JOHN: PRIDE AND HUMILITY ARE SO INTERESTING
WHEN YOU BRING THEM INTO THIS MIX.
YOU'RE GOING TO FIND THE WORD HUMILITY
AND THE FEAR OF THE LORD COUPLED TOGETHER
THROUGHOUT SCRIPTURE.
BECAUSE IF YOU FEAR GOD, YOU'RE GOING TO WALK IN
TRUE HUMILITY.
IF YOU'RE TRULY HUMBLE BEFORE GOD,
NOT A FALSE HUMILITY, THERE IS FALSE HUMILITY.
DAVID WAS ACCUSED OF BEING PROUD,
AND YET GOD SAID HE WAS A MAN AFTER MY HEART.
HIS BROTHER SAID, YOU'RE FULL OF CONCEIT, RIGHT.
SO TRUE HUMILITY, IF SOMEBODY TRULY WALKS IN HUMILITY,
THEY'LL FEAR GOD.
THE TWO RUN TOGETHER.
PRIDE AND REBELLION RUN TOGETHER.
SO PRIDE AND THE LACK OF THE FEAR OF THE LORD
ARE SYNONYMOUSLY RUNNING TOGETHER.
DOES THAT MAKE SENSE?
REBECCA: YEAH.
I'M JUST THINKING ABOUT HOW PRIDE CAN CREEP IN,
BECAUSE I'M THINKING ABOUT PEOPLE IN MINISTRY
AND JUST IN LIFE IN GENERAL WHO ARE WALKING WITH THE LORD.
IT'S ALMOST LIKE, IT MAKES ME THINK OF THAT VERSE.
I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S GOING ON
IN THE CHURCH TODAY IS,
IT SAYS IN JOHN, IT SAYS,
DON'T LOVE THE WORLD OR ANYTHING IN THE WORLD.
AND THEN IT SAYS, THE PRIDE OF LIFE,
THE LUST OF THE EYES
AND LUST OF THE FLESH, I THINK.
DO YOU THINK THOSE ARE THREE THINGS THAT CAN
GET INTO THE HEART AND CAUSE PRIDE TO COME IN?
JOHN: ABSOLUTELY.
I LOVE HOW ONE OF THE TRANSLATIONS TRANSLATES IT
PRIDE IN YOUR ACHIEVEMENTS.
REBECCA: MM-HM.
BUT IT'S JUST DECEPTION,
TO BE PROUD IN YOUR ACHIEVEMENTS.
JOHN: IT SURE IS.
TWO OF MY ABSOLUTE FAVORITE SCRIPTURES
IN THE NEW TESTAMENT, JESUS IN JOHN 15:4 SAYS,
WITHOUT ME, YOU CAN DO NOTHING.
OKAY.
I LOVE THAT SCRIPTURE.
I REMIND MYSELF OF THAT SCRIPTURE.
I REMIND OUR STAFF OF THAT SCRIPTURE.
WHEN GOD DOES GREAT, GREAT THINGS AND WE STAND IN AWE,
I SAY, GUYS, REMEMBER, WITHOUT JESUS,
WE CAN DO NOTHING.
THE OTHER ONE IS, WHEN JESUS SAYS IN LUKE 17,
WHEN THE APOSTLE SAID, INCREASE OUR FAITH,
HE SAID, AFTER YOU'VE DONE ALL THOSE THINGS
YOU WERE COMMANDED TO DO, SAY,
WE ARE UNPROFITABLE SERVANTS, WE'VE ONLY DONE OUR DUTY.
I THINK THOSE TWO SCRIPTURES WE SHOULD
ALWAYS KEEP BEFORE US BECAUSE THEY SPEAK OF
TRUE HUMILITY.
THEY SHOW US THAT ANYTHING WE ACCOMPLISH
THAT'S ANY GOOD AT ALL HAS ONLY BEEN GIVEN TO US
BY GOD TO DO IT,
AND HE GIVES US THE PLEASURE OF WATCHING HIM
DO IT THROUGH US.
I LOOK AT ALL THESE PASTORS AND THESE WOMEN
THAT PRAY THAT COME UP TO ME AND SAY,
I'M PRAYING FOR YOU AND I KNOW THEY'RE PRAYING FOR ME.
AND I THINK, THESE PEOPLE,
THESE PASTORS IN THESE RURAL AREAS
WITH THREE HUNDRED PEOPLE IN THEIR CHURCHES
HAVE BEEN FAITHFUL FOR YEARS,
THESE PEOPLE ARE GONNA STAY ON THE FRONT LINES OF HEAVEN
AND WE'RE ALL GOING TO SALUTE THEM
AND WE'RE GONNA THANK THEM FOR BEING SO FAITHFUL TO JESUS.
ANYTHING I'VE DONE.
WE'VE NOW GIVEN ALMOST, WE ARE OVER 59 MILLION
RESOURCES TO PASTORS AND LEADERS.
AND LITERALLY ALL OVER THE WORLD, RIGHT.
AND PEOPLE JUST GO, WOW.
AND I GO, NO, THIS NEVER WOULD HAVE BEEN DONE
HAD IT NOT BEEN JESUS
AND HAD IT NOT BEEN A BUNCH OF PEOPLE
COMING TOGETHER TO DO THIS TOGETHER.
ANYTHING WE DO, REBECCA, ANYTHING THAT IS
WORTH ETERNAL VALUE,
GOD GAVE US THE ABILITY TO DO IT.
HE GAVE US THE PLEASURE OF WATCHING HIM DO IT THROUGH US.
AND THAT'S THE WAY WE NEED TO STAY.
GOD COULD HAVE SAID TO ME, I WANT YOU TO BE
ONE OF THOSE MEN THAT GET ON THEIR KNEES AND PRAY
AND NOBODY WILL EVER SEE WHAT YOU DID UNTIL HEAVEN.
WHAT A PRIVILEGE TO DO THAT.
OR HE COULD HAVE SAID, I WANT YOU TO BE A PASTOR
IN A RURAL CHURCH.
IT WASN'T BECAUSE OF ME, MY PERSONALITY,
ANYTHING ELSE, IT WAS JUST HIS CHOOSING.
WE HAVE TO REMEMBER WHAT EVERYONE DOES
IN THE BODY OF CHRIST IS SO IMPORTANT,
SO, SO IMPORTANT.
REBECCA: THOSE PASTORS OF SMALL CHURCHES
AND PEOPLE WHO ARE INTERCEDING,
PEOPLE WHO - ANYONE WHO'S DOING SOMETHING
THAT MAYBE NOT A SINGLE PERSON WILL EVER SEE
OR THINK IT'S IMPORTANT,
BUT IF GOD'S CALLING THEM TO DO IT,
IT IS IMPORTANT, AND IT MIGHT BE SOME OF THE MOST
IMPORTANT WORK IN THE KINGDOM.
BECAUSE HOW WE MEASURE THINGS ON EARTH
IS NOT THE SAME AS HOW GOD MEASURED THINGS.
AND JESUS TALKS ABOUT THAT ALL THE TIME IN SCRIPTURE,
EVEN GOD SAYING, I DON'T LOOK AT THE OUTWARD,
I LOOK AT THE INWARD.
I THINK ABOUT THAT VERSE BECAUSE WE HAVE TO WRAP SOON,
IT SAYS, THE EYES OF THE LORD
ARE SEARCHING THROUGHOUT THE EARTH
FOR THOSE WHOSE HEARTS ARE FULLY DEVOTED TO HIM.
AND I THINK ABOUT THE TIME AND SEASON
THAT WE'RE LIVING IN.
WE DON'T KNOW WHEN CHRIST WILL RETURN,
BUT I THINK IT'S CONFIDENT TO SAY THAT WE ARE IN DAYS
THAT SEEM LIKE THE DAYS OF NOAH.
AND WE NEED TO BE PREPARED.
WHAT WOULD YOU MESSAGE BE, I THINK,
TO THE BELIEVERS WHO ARE LISTENING?
WHERE SHOULD THEIR FOCUS BE,
AND HOW DO THEY PREPARE FOR HIS RETURN?
JOHN: I WOULD SAY TO EVERYONE LISTENING,
PLAN LIKE HE'S NOT COMING FOR ANOTHER HUNDRED YEARS,
AND LIVE LIKE HE'S COMING IN AN HOUR.
REBECCA: THAT'S PERFECT ADVICE.
YEAH.
AND JUST BE PREPARED TO, WHATEVER THE COST IS,
AND TO COUNT THE COST, ALSO,
TO COUNT THE COST BEFORE YOU DECIDE TO FOLLOW HIM.
BECAUSE WE HAVE TO BE WILLING TO PAY WHATEVER PRICE,
BUT IT'S A PRICE THAT'S WORTH IT FOR HIM.
JOHN: WHEN YOU THINK OF HOW FULLY AND COMPLETELY
HE GAVE HIMSELF TO REDEEM US,
HE'S NOT COMING BACK FOR A BRIDE
THAT'S ONLY GIVING A PORTION OF HER HEART TO HIM.
HE'S COMING BACK FOR A BRIDE THAT'S
GIVING HERSELF TO HIM THE WAY HE GAVE HIMSELF TO HER.
AND I STILL, IT REDUCES ME TO TEARS WHEN I THINK ABOUT
WHAT HE LEFT, I CAN'T EVEN IMAGINE IT.
AND HE KNEW THAT BY THE TIME THEY WERE DONE BEATING HIM
THAT HE WOULDN'T EVEN LOOK LIKE A HUMAN BEING ANYMORE
BY THE TIME HE GOT TO THE CROSS.
HE KNEW IT.
AND HE DID IT JUST BECAUSE HE LOVED US.
HOW CAN I NOT GIVE MYSELF FULLY TO HIM?
HOW CAN I SEEK TO PLEASE MEN AND DISAPPOINT HIM?
I THINK THE MORE YOU WALK WITH JESUS,
I THINK WHEN YOU'RE A BABY CHRISTIAN, YOU FEAR,
AND THIS IS A HEALTHY FEAR, DISOBEYING HIM.
I THINK THE LONGER YOU WALK WITH HIM,
YOU FEAR DISAPPOINTING HIM.
DOES THAT MAKE SENSE?
REBECCA: YEAH.
AND I THINK THE OTHER THING IS, TOO, IS,
I THINK THE TEMPTATION FOR THE FEAR OF MAN,
TO GIVE INTO THAT FEAR, IS BECAUSE
THEY'RE PHYSICALLY IN FRONT OF YOU.
BUT WHEN YOU HAVE CLOSE PROXIMITY TO JESUS,
HE BECOMES MORE AWARE TO YOU.
AND SO YOU HAVE TO HAVE A CLOSE RELATIONSHIP
WITH HIM TO UNDERSTAND,
LIKE YOU SAID, WHEN YOU MINISTER,
YOU TUNE INTO THE LORD.
IS THIS PLEASING TO YOU?
AND IT'S EASY TO LOOK AT THE PEOPLE IN FRONT OF YOU
AND SEE THEM.
SO YOU HAVE TO TURN AWAY I THINK FROM WHAT YOUR FLESH SEES
AND GO INTO YOUR SPIRIT AND WHAT IS YOUR SPIRIT
COMMUNING WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT SAYING?
HE SAYS, GOOD JOB, SON.
YOU PREACHED WHAT I NEEDED YOU TO PREACH,
THINKING ABOUT THAT STORY.
SO PROXIMITY, INTIMACY WITH JESUS,
ARE ALL PIVOTAL THINGS
TO KEEP A HEALTHY FEAR OF GOD,
BECAUSE IT'S THAT FEAR OF LOSING HIM.
THE CHURCH IS GOING THROUGH DIFFERENT THINGS.
I THINK PROPHETICALLY,
WHAT WOULD YOU SPEAK OVER THE CHURCH
AND WHAT IS GOD SHOWING YOU?
JOHN: I BELIEVE WE'RE HEADING TO ONE OF
THE GREATEST MOVES OF GOD OUR NATION'S EVER SEEN.
I HONESTLY DO.
I GOT BORN AGAIN AT THE END OF THE JESUS REVOLUTION.
THAT REALLY, SOME PEOPLE SAY IT ENDED IN '73.
I DISAGREE.
I THINK IT ENDED IN THE EARLY '80S.
AND I THINK, MOSES ON THE BACK SIDE
OF THE DESERT FOR FORTY YEARS,
FORTY IS A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER IN SCRIPTURE.
JESUS IN THE WILDERNESS, FORTY DAYS.
I REALLY BELIEVE WE'RE AT THE BEGINNINGS.
AND I THINK IT'S GOING TO START WITH A SPRINKLE
AND IT'S GOING TO END UP BEING A TORRENTIAL DOWNPOUR
OF RAIN IN A GOOD WAY.
BUT I THINK WE'RE ON THE VERY VERGE OF IT.
I THINK WHAT HAPPENED UP IN ASBURY
AND THE OTHER PLACES IN AMERICA ARE JUST LITTLE DROPS.
BUT I'M SEEING THE ENEMY THINKING HE'S GOT OUR NATION.
HE'S GOT OUR NATION IN HIS GRIP, WE'RE DONE,
I SEE GOD LAUGHING.
I SEE GOD SAYING, OH, YEAH,
I HAVE MILLIONS THAT HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE,
AND THEY'VE BEEN PRAYING, AND I'M ABOUT TO SHOW UP,
AND YOU'RE GOING TO SCATTER
AND YOU'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE THIS NATION.
I REALLY BELIEVE IT.
I THINK HE'S GIVING US ONE MORE CHANCE.
THAT'S WHAT I REALLY BELIEVE.
AND SO - AND I REALLY BELIEVE IT'S GOING TO
REALLY START WITH THE GEN ZS AND THE MILLENNIALS.
I THINK THEY'RE GOING TO GRAB IT.
AND THEY'RE GOING TO BE THE ONES THAT REALLY SPARK
A MOVE OF GOD IN THIS NATION.
REBECCA: FINAL THOUGHT, HOW IMPORTANT IS REPENTANCE?
JOHN: IT'S, THERE'S NO FAITH WITHOUT REPENTANCE.
OKAY.
YOUR FAITH IS COUNTERFEIT IF YOU DON'T REPENT.
AND I THINK THE EASIEST WAY OF LOOKING AT REPENTANCE
IS WHEN A YOUNG MAN PROPOSES TO A YOUNG WOMAN.
IF THAT YOUNG WOMAN SAYS TO HIM, YOU KNOW,
TONY WAS MY HIGH SCHOOL SWEETHEART FOR TWO YEARS,
I'D LIKE A COUPLE NIGHTS WITH HIM A YEAR.
AARON, I WAS PINNED TO HIM IN COLLEGE,
I'D LIKE FOUR NIGHTS A YEAR.
BUT YOU'LL GET 350 NIGHTS A YEAR AND YOU'LL BE MY FAVORITE
AND I'LL LOVE YOU THE MOST.
NO YOUNG MAN IN THIS ENTIRE NATION
WOULD ACCEPT THAT PROPOSAL.
JESUS ISN'T COMING BACK FOR A CHURCH
THAT HASN'T BROKEN UP WITH THE SINS
THAT PUT THE NAILS THROUGH HIS HANDS,
THAT TOLERATE IT, THAT IGNORE IT.
HE'S COMING BACK FOR A CHURCH THAT BROKE UP,
JUST LIKE A BRIDE WHEN SHE WALKS DOWN THAT AISLE
AND SAYS GOODBYE TO 3.9 BILLION GUYS,
HE'S COMING BACK FOR A CHURCH THAT SAYS,
I AM NOT GOING TO ENGAGE WITH, FLIRT WITH,
OR EMBRACE ANYTHING THAT OFFENDS YOU.
THAT'S TRUE REPENTANCE.
AND IF YOU DON'T HAVE THAT,
IF YOU JUST PRAY A FORMULA SINNER'S PRAYER
AND YOU STILL HAVE ALL THOSE IDOLS IN YOUR HEART,
YOU'RE NOT REALLY SAVED.
YOU HAVE A COUNTERFEIT FAITH.
BECAUSE HEBREWS TELLS US, THE FIRST FOUNDATION
OF THE CHURCH IS REPENTANCE FROM DEAD WORKS.
THE NEXT FOUNDATION IS FAITH TOWARDS GOD.
SO IN OTHER WORDS, YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE THE FOUNDATION
TO HAVE FAITH IN GOD UNTIL YOU REPENT.
AND THAT'S WHAT THE DISCIPLES WENT EVERYWHERE DOING.
THEY WENT PREACHING REPENTANCE
FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS.
REBECCA: AND WE CAN JUST KEEP ON REPENTING.
NO MATTER HOW LONG YOU'RE WALKING WITH THE LORD,
ANYTIME WE BEGIN TO TURN, WE JUST TURN BACK.
REPENTANCE ISN'T A BAD THING,
IT'S SOMETHING THAT BRINGS US BACK CLOSER TO GOD.
JOHN: IT'S A BEAUTIFUL WORD, YES.
REBECCA: AND IT TURNS US BACK INTO THE DIRECTION
WE NEED TO BE, BACK TO HIM.
AND SO I THINK PEOPLE THINK IT'S DIRTY
OR THEY THINK, YOU KNOW, AND IT'S LIKE,
NO, REPENTANCE IS A GIFT FOR US FROM THE LORD
TO COME BACK TO HIM,
NO MATTER HOW LONG WE'VE BEEN WALKING WITH HIM.
WELL, WE'RE OUT OF TIME.
I WANT TO SAY THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.
FOR THE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO GET THE BOOK,
WHERE CAN THEY GET IT?
JOHN: JUST GO TO AMAZON.
EVERYBODY'S PRIME MEMBERS.
AND ACTUALLY, AMAZON RIGHT NOW HAS GOT IT FOR 30% OFF.
SO IT'S GOING TO BE THE CHEAPEST PLACE
YOU CAN GET IT.
YOU'LL HAVE IT AT YOUR DOORSTEP THE NEXT DAY.
AND WHAT IS REALLY FUN ABOUT THIS BOOK IS,
I PRAYED.
I SAID, HOLY SPIRIT, PEOPLE AREN'T READING.
HOW DO I DO THIS?
AND HE GAVE ME THE IDEA OF DOING SHORT CHAPTERS.
SO THERE'S 42 CHAPTERS.
AND ALSO, IN APPENDIX A, THERE'S A LITTLE QR CODE
THAT I HAVE 42 FOUR-MINUTE VIDEOS, AND THEY'RE FREE.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY FOR THEM.
SO ONCE YOU BUY THE BOOK, NOT ONLY DO YOU GET
THESE SHORT CHAPTERS,
YOU GET THE FIVE P'S, I CALL THEM,
AND THAT IS THE PASSAGE, THAT'S THE POINT,
THE PONDER, THE PRAYER, AND THE PROFESSION.
BUT I SET IT UP IN A WAY THAT IT COULD BE A DEVOTIONAL
WHERE YOU COULD REALLY GET THIS IN YOU.
IT'S JUST GOT SHORT CHAPTERS.
SO YOU CAN GET THROUGH THE CHAPTER
IN FIVE TO SEVEN MINUTES.
REBECCA: THAT'S AWESOME.
WELL, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.
JOHN: IT'S A PLEASURE.